How permanent are the effects of estrogen?

[Michelle F]

Hi there, I am a newbie, though I have been reading from the wings for about a year now. I thought this would be a place to get as reliable information as any on the topic of estrogen.

My body is very different from most males. I started growing breasts when I was 12 and they never receded. They have in fact gotten bigger over the years and are a full C cup.

I finally got up the nerve to go to an endo last summer and it seems that my estrogen level is way up there (29 or under is normal for a male, mine is 106, which I think is in the normal range of 75 to 125 for a female) My testosterone is normal for a male too, but I can't grow a beard and get called m'am on the phone and people look at me quite curiously in public even though I dress as male and try to act as male.

Here's the question then, I have obviously had enough estrogen to feminize my body, hair and skin for over 28 years, is there any way that the effects of this can be erased from my skin, hair, lack of facial hair etc.?

I would like to live as male for the sake of my wife and kids, but can not tolerate the taunting and sideways looks any longer. I am comfortable being identified as female, but would like to know, if I have my boobs removed and go on estrogen blockers (or have ovaries removed as I suspect I have), will I be forced to live as an androgenous person for the rest of my life? I cannot take presenting myself as a male unless I can garner the respect that a man deserves. If I am just going to be thought of as gay, or trans, or androgenous, I would rather live as a woman.

I hope none of that sounded too crazy. It's just that I have read some people cautioning others not to take estrogen for longer than 8 months or some of the effects are permanent. I have taken it (by default, not choice) for decades. Is there any way back or am I pretty much going to look this way no matter what I do?

Please be honest and don't just tell me what you think I would want to hear. I do feel like a female, but I feel like a man too. I could live either way as long as I can recieve respect and make the mockery stop.

Thank you so much

M

[Kate Thomas]

Hi Michelle
welcome to Susan's Place
please check out the terms of service
of special interest to you would be the WIKI and our Main page  I cant give you any answers to your questions but hope you can find some helpful information here. Check these links for starters.
Best Wishes

Kate Alice

[NickSister]

Hi Michelle,

You sure are in an interesting place.

Just a couple things. If you have kids and you fathered them, it seems unlikely to me that you would have ovaries. I'm not definite on this but I don't think it is possible to have both male and female gonads at once i.e. sperm producing testicles and working ovaries.

From what I gather testosterone is a powerful chemical, so even if your estrogen was high your testosterone should dominate your development. This suggests to me that you have some sort of  testosterone insensitivity i.e. your cells are not that affected by testosterone, so your default form is more femanine.

Now I'm no expert. So take this with a grain of salt. I really think the endo should be able to give you some good answer to your questions.

I suggest talking to your wife about it. She must be aware of your 'androgyny'. Perhaps what she wants will influence which way you go. It may be she does not mind if you become a woman. It sounds to me that without any intervention it would be easier for you to pass as female than male (just guessing here). Find out from your endo what could be done and what the expected results would be. If your insensitive to testosterone then there might not be much you can do in that direction.

Best of luck Michelle,
look forward to seeing you around.

[Michelle F]

Hi,

Yes it is possible to have both working ovaries and testes, it is very rare to have both  tissues in one body and it is not entirely impossible that both should work.

see the following link www.emedicine.com/med/topic1702.htm

Yes you are right, the endo should be able to tell me more. At this point all he has told me is that my case is "very uncommon", he wants to take pictures inside my pelvis to see if there are "girl things in there".

thank you so much for the replies, everyone.

M

[Wing Walker]

Hi, Michelle,

I am not a physician but to the best of my knowledge, anything like gynecomastia won't simply leave because your estrogen level has dropped, even to zero.

I know of some men who didn't show any of the primary male characteristics (facial hair, deeper voice, muscle bulk) until they were in their  mid to late 20s.

Pursue this with your endo and get the complete facts. 

May you be happy!

Wing Walker

[taylor]

Hi Michelle,

I too am Intersex. And yes I was born with both gonads as well. I lost one gonad to a tumor and now have a remaining testicle.

You have many questions that deserve being answered, and the first word of advice that I have, is be true to yourself and make sure that regardless of the care providers views on things, that you find care providers that allow your voice and listen to your voice. This is often more easily found in traditional practices than specialized Intersex practices believe it or not.

I can possibly assist you in finding resources (real live people) that can assist you in your geographical area, if you want to send me a message with the state in which you are located.  It is much easier to get up with me through a PM than posting in here at this time. I do not come in as often as I once did, but I can be contacted through my email with a PM. This is how your posting was referred to me, by one of the moderators, so that I could read and respond to you.

There are ways to reduce the estrogen, and certianly removal of ovaries should you have them, is a first step. However it may not be the only solution needed. It really depends on several factors. The other thing that can be done is upping your testosterone levels through the use of injections. This can be done once your endocronologist has done extensive blood work to see what all your chemical levels are, as well as your liver count etc.  By way of removal of the ovaries, increased testosterone and some steady health care with even a general practitioner, you can live comfortably as a male and be perceived as such in society. However remember you want to know more about your bodies functioning so that you have answers and the care that you need and deserve.

I do know a few Intersex males that live with their breasts in place. I cannot personally relate to that. But the point in sharing this with you is simply that you do have the right to decide what is and is not done with your body, and with the right care in place you will be heard.

As for living under a label of transsexual it all depends on how you approach your care, and what is determined with your individual situation. There are ways that the laws work on one end of things, but they can also be avoided and still have needs met that will not tie you into a label that you don't want or should I say are not fitting. It is hard to deal with some aspects due to ignorance, on the other hand, you can be greatly empowered with the right professional help. So don't feel too locked in with fear of labeling.

I would need further personal information from you before I could really advise you any further, so if you email me through a PM on this board I will respond. I just believe some questions are better off in private and it is my general practice to respect privacy so send me a message when you want and we can go from there if your interested. Hang in there!

Peace
Taylor

[Michelle F]

Hey Taylor,

Thank you so much for the reply. I saw your picture and bio on another website that I go to for advice too, so I believe you are on the level.

I just saw the endo today and he retook my levels again because he couldn't believe the numbers. Thank you for backing me up about being able to have both gonads.

What role I decide to live in will be based on how I can successfully function with the lest amount of invasive surgery and HRT, I don't want to be on drugs for the rest of my life. As someone else wisely deducted my wife really doesn't care if I look female or male, after all she has seen the whole picture from day one. Other people only see the "male" after I have bound myself and worn exactly the right shirt, etc.

I tried to PM you, but I'm kind of blonde and couldn't figure it out, I will try your e-mail from the other site and see if it can hook us up.

And thanks to the moderator who forwarded my info to you, that was a really kind thing to do and I appreciate it

Thanks Taylor
M

[Kate Thomas]

Nope  that was no blond moment. you don't have PM privileges until after 15 posts. Try the other icons below Taylor's avatar.

[Michelle F]

Hey Kate,

You are a really nice lady. And thanks for explaining. I tried to reach him and we'll see how it al works out.

gratefully
M