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Dr. Christine McGinn vs Dr. Suporn SRS?

Started by moon, March 09, 2017, 01:47:34 AM

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Miss Clara

Quote from: Lucie on April 09, 2017, 10:23:31 AM
Quite interesting discussion.

I assume you mean perineum.

Yes, thanks.  Corrected. <3
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KayXo

Can someone explain to me the mesh technique? I don't quite get it...Thanks. :)

Scrotal tissue, by the way, doesn't contain fat.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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AnneK

If it's the same thing as used in skin grafts, it's cutting a lot of slits into the skin, so that it can be stretched to cover a larger area.  It's a technique that's often used with severe burns, to quickly cover a large area.
I'm a 65 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.
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AnonyMs

I'm not trying to argue one surgeons better than another here (though I do have an opinion on that), only on what basis we can can judge such things.

Quote from: Clara Kay on April 09, 2017, 10:25:49 AM
It's too bad there isn't a provision here at Susan's to post photos of results.  It would go a long way toward helping girls decide which surgeon is best for them.

Couldn't agree more, but I can't imagine it will ever happen.

Quote from: Clara Kay on April 09, 2017, 10:25:49 AM
I forgot to mention that Suporn's offer to do free revisions is not unique.  Chettawut also does free revisions.  It's something to consider, but realize that travel to/from Thailand and lodging expenses for a couple of weeks is on your buck.  These expenses are not insignificant if you live in the U.S.  A 20+ hour flight in coach is no picnic either, especially with a sore bottom.  I chose to have my labia majora revised here in Chicago at my expense despite Chett offering to do it for free.  The cost difference was minimal.

That's an example of something that's either true or not and presumably easy to check. I could go and have a look at other posts and see if everyone else says the same. Its a useful filter on selecting a surgeon if it matters to you.

Quote from: Clara Kay on April 09, 2017, 10:25:49 AM
From my experience seeing the results of various GRS surgeons, the results are all over the map.  To categorically say that you'll have a more realistic looking vulva going to Suporn is simply not true.  You might think that a surgeon's method determines the outcome, but that's not the only factor at play.  A patient's anatomy is so important. 

Not so easy to check. I don't know really how important anatomy is, and if a particular surgeon is better for a certain type of anatomy. To state a particular surgeon is always better is not possible without them both doing the SRS on the same patient, for all patients - apart from that we can only look at a sample and guess. My approach is to look at the samples I have and guess. The sample is really small, so at the end of it I can only hope my guess is correct.

Another factor I forgot to mention is to look at complaints about the surgeons. They all have them, some more than others. Like with the results photo's there's not that many complaints, so its hard to judge. There's one surgeon, not mentioned here, that has a large number of complaints.
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jentay1367

Quote from: AnonyMs on April 09, 2017, 11:06:23 AM
I'm not trying to argue one surgeons better than another here (though I do have an opinion on that), only on what basis we can can judge such things.

Couldn't agree more, but I can't imagine it will ever happen.

That's an example of something that's either true or not and presumably easy to check. I could go and have a look at other posts and see if everyone else says the same. Its a useful filter on selecting a surgeon if it matters to you.

Not so easy to check. I don't know really how important anatomy is, and if a particular surgeon is better for a certain type of anatomy. To state a particular surgeon is always better is not possible without them both doing the SRS on the same patient, for all patients - apart from that we can only look at a sample and guess. My approach is to look at the samples I have and guess. The sample is really small, so at the end of it I can only hope my guess is correct.

Another factor I forgot to mention is to look at complaints about the surgeons. They all have them, some more than others. Like with the results photo's there's not that many complaints, so its hard to judge. There's one surgeon, not mentioned here, that has a large number of complaints.


Unfortunately, in the case of GCS, it does look as though size matters. The less material they have to work with and generally speaking, the longer you have spent on HRT, is going to make a difference on aesthetics and function(the latter point meaning more time being detrimental). At least based on everything I've gleaned over the years that appears to be the case. And this all seems to be regardless of Surgeon :'( 
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Miss Clara

Quote from: jentay1367 on April 10, 2017, 08:44:05 AM

Unfortunately, in the case of GCS, it does look as though size matters. The less material they have to work with and generally speaking, the longer you have spent on HRT, is going to make a difference on aesthetics and function(the latter point meaning more time being detrimental). At least based on everything I've gleaned over the years that appears to be the case. And this all seems to be regardless of Surgeon :'(

It seems obvious that anatomy is important, and may be the most important factor in affecting the outcome which is why surgeons who do the penile inversion method like patients who are uncircumcised.  I believe that the choice of a surgeon becomes especially important when the amount of genital tissue is lacking.  To achieve a good result in girls with under developed genitals is much more challenging.  This is, I believe, why Dr. Suporn is considered one of the best, and his meshing technique is one of the ways he deals with such patients.  His reputation for using ALL available tissue is another indication for his being an especially good choice for young trans women who avoided male puberty.  Suporn's fees are much higher than other Thai surgeons because of this special expertise.

If a patient has ample genital material for the surgeon to work with, the choice of a surgeon is not as important.  The choice then comes down to affordability, method, timing, and location.  I considered going to Dr. McGinn and Dr. Bowers for my GRS.  They are both tops in their field, and I liked the idea of them being trans women themselves.  Their fees, however, were quite high and their waiting lists quite long. 

When my research uncovered the work of Thai surgeons like Dr. Suporn and Dr. Chettawut, I was intrigued.  The non-penile inversion method appeared to be an improvement over the inversion method.  I contacted both Suporn and Chettawut with inquiries about fees and timing.  I got a recommendation from a friend who went to Dr. Chettawut, so when Ms. Som wrote back that Dr. Chett had an opening in just two months and that the fee was half what Dr. Suporn wanted, my decision was made.  Even with the cost of business class travel for two to Thailand and a stay of 30 days, the cost was several thousand dollars less than if I had waited for Drs. McGinn or Bowers. 

I was lucky, however, if I had experienced complications after returning home, followup treatment would have been difficult depending on the problem.  Fortunately, by the time one is released to go home, the chances of an unforeseen complication are very low.
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jentay1367

As much as I would like to use McGinn, my concern too, is for her waiting list with what may not be enough difference to be important to me. Many here seem to recommend PAI for a number of reasons and they seem like my alternate to McGinn. Add to that, I get a trip to Thailand. Get to mark two things off the bucket list ;)
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AnonyMs

It seems to me that these are very theoretical exercises as to who does what and why, and how it translates into results. Theory is useful only so long as it matches reality, and I'm not sure it does. I've seen a fair number of photographic results now that don't match what I'd expect from reading about surgeons.
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jentay1367

Quote from: AnonyMs on April 10, 2017, 12:53:33 PM
It seems to me that these are very theoretical exercises as to who does what and why, and how it translates into results. Theory is useful only so long as it matches reality, and I'm not sure it does. I've seen a fair number of photographic results now that don't match what I'd expect from reading about surgeons.


So what's your suggestion? In the final analysis, you must choose a surgeon and deal with their results. Without a crystal ball, there's really nothing left to be done about it. Like any surgery, it's a calculated risk.
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AnonyMs

I'd reduce the risk by looking at photo's of their work - they are out there. I'd also (and have) read a massive number of posts about them trying to look information that I can have some confidence in.
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Miss Clara

Unfortunately, the photos on the surgeons' websites most likely show only the more successful results.  It's marketing.  Not that these photos aren't of value in making a decision as long as you realize they've been cherry picked.  I've exchanged post-op pics with other girls privately and seen the good, bad and the ugly from highly regarded surgeons.  It's got to be more than just the choice of a surgeon. 
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AnonyMs

There's plenty of photo's that are not from the surgeons sites. Search for "A collection of links to photos of SRS results", or pm me.
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SadieBlake

Quote from: AnonyMs on April 10, 2017, 02:05:36 PM
I'd reduce the risk by looking at photo's of their work - they are out there. I'd also (and have) read a massive number of posts about them trying to look information that I can have some confidence in.

I'm going more by accounts of experiences with specific surgeons, their training, experience and reputation and last but ultimately most important, verifying these things and assessing less quantifiables in my interaction with the docs. My filter is a bit different, having worked in the medical industry all my life and interacted with a lot of surgeons.

Some elements of the results are simply going to be luck and biology. I happen to know I heal well and fast and if I didn't I'd probably not be proceeding to GCS at all. On the one hand I discount virtually all opinions about how good or bad any given surgeon is, however I also rejected a couple based on those less tangible interactions; good practitioners, no doubt but one wonderful thing today is that we have a lot of choices.

The Thai surgeons aren't an option as I don't have that much money and am covered by insurance, however their long healing times also make them a no-no for me.
🌈👭 lesbian, troublemaker ;-) 🌈🏳️‍🌈
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Gail20

RE: SadieBlake: I happen to know I heal well and fast and if I didn't I'd probably not be proceeding to GCS at all.

Hmmmmmm . . . I'm 65, and while I have always healed well and fast, I'm not as good as I used to be.  Been on HRT for over 15 years and under an excellent doctor's care for all of this time. My Labs and heart are outstanding. They say I have the heart of a 16 year old and signed off on GCS for me without hesitation.  Still, I do have some concerns since I'm older. . . and your comment makes me think again . . . . any thoughts??
"friends speak for you when you can't speak for yourself" :)
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AnonyMs

65's not so old for SRS - have a read of this great post by Warlockmaker

My wonderful surgeries SRS, BA and FFS at PAI Bangkok
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,204651.0.html
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SadieBlake

Gail, my body is fundamentally functioning as well as it was when I last had surgery, that was about 6 years ago. I just turned 61 yesterday and feeling good about the procedure, I'll let you know how it goes.
🌈👭 lesbian, troublemaker ;-) 🌈🏳️‍🌈
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Gail20

Quote from: SadieBlake on April 11, 2017, 09:19:12 PM
Gail, my body is fundamentally functioning as well as it was when I last had surgery, that was about 6 years ago. I just turned 61 yesterday and feeling good about the procedure, I'll let you know how it goes.

Well, that is a surprise.  I had you pegged for someone much younger.  :) Yes, please let me know how things progress. I had a Consultation last week for GCS and I'm waiting for a date right now.  My usually bullet-proof GP's letter did not have the correct recommendations.  They're doing a re-write and when it's finally received my surgeon they will give me a date.  I need to get Medicare to pay for this so everything needs to be perfect when it's submitted.  My date will likely be next January.

And thanks AnonyMs for the link . . . and your thoughts as well. . . :)

I don't' know how many of us there are here but perhaps an "Over-60 GCS Thread" would be beneficial for some . . . ?
"friends speak for you when you can't speak for yourself" :)
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Brooke

Quote from: Gail20 on April 12, 2017, 01:07:03 PM
I need to get Medicare to pay for this so everything needs to be perfect when it's submitted.

Hi Gail, I too am planning on using Medicare.

Is Dr. Mcginn currently accepting Medicare patients? If you are planning on going elsewhere may I ask where? Also is there any particular contact person I should try and reach?
I could really use the feedback and information. If you'd rather not post it on this thread, I would highly appreciate a PM.

Thanks!


~Brooke~
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jentay1367

Has this been superseded with new policy?

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2016/08/31/medicare-denies-national-coverage-for-gender-reassignment-surgery-no-evidence-of-therapeutic-outcome/


update...apparently they do on a case by case basis. My question would be what criteria they're using this week and what kind of percentages are being covered? It would be tragic to count on this and have it dismissed and denied out of hand after having counted on it. Seems like all government programs, it does more harm than good. :(

From Medicare:
"Based on a thorough review of the clinical evidence available at this time, there is not enough evidence to determine whether gender reassignment surgery improves health outcomes for Medicare beneficiaries with gender dysphoria. There were conflicting (inconsistent) study results – of the best designed studies, some reported benefits while others reported harms."
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Gail20

Quote from: jentay1367 on April 12, 2017, 04:03:46 PM
Has this been superseded with new policy?

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2016/08/31/medicare-denies-national-coverage-for-gender-reassignment-surgery-no-evidence-of-therapeutic-outcome/


update...apparently they do on a case by case basis. My question would be what criteria they're using this week and what kind of percentages are being covered? It would be tragic to count on this and have it dismissed and denied out of hand after having counted on it. Seems like all government programs, it does more harm than good. :(

From Medicare:
"Based on a thorough review of the clinical evidence available at this time, there is not enough evidence to determine whether gender reassignment surgery improves health outcomes for Medicare beneficiaries with gender dysphoria. There were conflicting (inconsistent) study results – of the best designed studies, some reported benefits while others reported harms."

Private practice surgeons are VERY UNLIKELY to ever taker Medicare.  Medicare pays less and these surgeons are overbooked.  They don't want to take Medicare; they'd lose money. Once any Doctor accepts a single Medicare patient for a procedure they MUST take all Medicare patients in the future.

Best to go to the surgeons connected with Gender Programs in Universities and Hospitals.  They already take Medicare and know how to work with it. . .

Also, if you're going to try to use Medicare make sure you make it easy for the Practice to work with you. Look organized!! Make it harder to tell you no.  Get all your letters done in advance; 1 each from two different Therapists and also a letter from your Doctor who has been prescribing HRT for you, saying he is recommending you for GCS.
"friends speak for you when you can't speak for yourself" :)
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