Suicide - Sin or No

[Nero]

Is suicide a sin?
According to the Bible?
Most Christians just reference the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' in response to this question.
Or 'thy body is thy temple'.
Those scriptures are vague.

Is God really against suicide?
Is it a sin?
Will a person burn in hell for it?

This includes assisted 'Kavorkianesque' suicide as well.
Is wanting to be free from pain, to descend into a world of nothingness, so wrong?

And please spare me the alleged 'selfish' aspect of suicide. This is about sin, nothing more.
Non-believers welcome if they have something to contribute other than the standard 'I don't believe in God' statements.

[NicholeW.]

I'd like to answer this, if I could, Nero. My own spiritual orientation doesn't encompass sin. It does recognize that people do cause harm to themselves and to each other. But also recognizes that life is intertwined and that causes and effects are difficult to track and determine at best.

So, I have to admit I don't know. I dislike seeing folks kill themselves, but is there a Hell of some sort ready to swallow them once they have done? I don't think so; but what do I know about that? Good question, if it makes me think. I just cannot think of an answer. *smile*

[Sarah Louise]

Yes, people quote that verse and say it is sin.  So what.

God forgives sin.

Pastors also tell you that if you have accepted Christ, all sins past present and future are forgiven.  That isn't a license to sin, but you are still saved.

People say being TS is a sin, God forgives sin.

I never feared death before I knew Christ, now I have questions.

Sarah L.

[Sandy]

Having been a moth that strayed way too close to that flame, all I will say is that it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

I have not read enough of the bible to give an authoritative answer for the suicide question.  However, I have given it much thought over the years.

Sin, in my mind, is too unjust.  It does not allow for circumstances.

I've spoken with priests who discussed such matters.  For example is it a sin to kill your family?  During WWII chinese families were butally massacred by advancing japanese soldiers.  Knowing that you and your family were going to die a painful slow death, is it merciful to kill them quickly before that happens?

By strict interpretation, any killing is sinful.  But which is merciful?

I do not think that the goddess I have come to know and be loved by would be so black and white about sin.

I would think that she would temper her interpretation based on circumstance.

So too suicide may be sinful if you are being selfish or hurtful.  But, for example, if you are in unending debilitating pain, then perhaps it is not.

I think much of sin has to do with what *you* think is sinful.  If you know you are doing wrong then you are sinning.  This is where free will comes in.

A round about answer ending up with "maybe yes, maybe no".

-Sandy

[Christo]

if ur a Christian.  suicide is a sin.  the only person that can take life from u is God.  if ur not a Christian u'll get other answers.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/julyweb-only/42.0.html

[BeverlyAnn]

By what I believe, yes suicide is, in most cases, a sin.  But not for the reason you might think.  Sin, to me and quoting from Robert Heinlein, is hurting another person needlessly but hurting yourself is not sinful, merely stupid.  The problem with suicide, again in most cases, is that it badly hurts those left behind.  However in the case of a terminal illness at the point when there is absolutely no hope, then I do believe assisted suicide is not sinful.

Beverly

[buttercup]

Hi Nero  ,

Another interesting thread about death.  I hope it is to satisfy a curiosity about the religious stance on suicide and not because you are contemplating this yourself.   I would be a hypocrite to deny that I do not fight those demons from time to time, but there are two reasons I don't succumb - my loved ones I leave behind and because it is a sin.
My Catholic upbringing has drummed that into my head and I cannot escape those thoughts no matter how I try.  With respect to euthanasia, there have certainly been good grounds to end life, where a terminal patient is beyond help and having insufferable pain, BUT the Church still looks at this as sin!  BUT God will have mercy on your soul, and absolve you of sin, IOW, you will be forgiven!   
We are supposed to repect life, and that begins with ourselves, (easy to say when you think you've run out of reasons to live), and wonder and marvel at how precious it is, because it can be taken at any moment!  Many people kill themselves slowly with substance abuse and self-neglect, still a form of suicide.
Anyway, it's a tough call and if regarding suicide as a sin keeps you from taking your life, then let it be so.  Around this time of year is the highest incidence of self-harm, please reach out cause there is always someone willing to listen.            

Take care

buttercup   

[RebeccaFog]

Hi Nero,

     What a coincidence this question is.  Earlier I was reading an article by a Unitarian Universalist minister who had to answer that question to the brother of a suicide.  The answer is 'no', it is not a sin.  The reasoning behind this is that we now understand severe depression and other states of mind to be real illnesses.  The suicide is a result of the illness.
     I am not recommending suicide, however, it really is wrong on many many levels.  I can't tell you why I didn't just kill myself because I don't really know.  I'm glad I didn't, though, because I feel good and I have been helping others.  I believe that I knew that self termination just is not the answer.  Personally, I could not let go because somewhere deep inside I knew the pain had to end.  There is an end to everything whether it is good or bad. I think it came down to who was tougher; me, or the pain.

    I agree with the minister that suicide is not a sin.  Calling it a sin is to steal the dignity of a person whose suffering was obviously never resolved.  We may as well go around punching sick babies for crying.

no offense or harm meant to anyone,


Rebis

[David W. Shelton]

I think Rebis is absolutely correct here:

I agree with the minister that suicide is not a sin.  Calling it a sin is to steal the dignity of a person whose suffering was obviously never resolved.

I'm more concerned that someone is in such a state of dispair that they feel like they have no hope--no out--than suicide. Whether or not it's sin is so far beyond the reality that someone is dealing with some MAJOR problems that has brought them to a point that their entire world is closing in around them.

This site is a support site, so let's do what we can to support each other and leave the theological debates to the church leaders. In the end, the grace of God outshines them all.

[lisagurl]

If no person has ever met God how would anyone know what God's wants or does not want or for that matter what will happen if a person was to displease it.

[buttercup]

If no person has ever met God how would anyone know what God's wants or does not want or for that matter what will happen if a person was to displease it.

Ummm, that's a hard one to explain lisagurl.  A practising Christian has God within themselves, he is not someone you meet in everyday circumstances, that will come after death.  So in affect, you are hurting God when you choose to take your life.  I don't want to sound like some sanctimonious bible-basher here, but this is what I was taught by the priests and nuns.
This thread is questioning whether suicide is a sin.  Sin is usually meant in a religious context and I am just relaying the Catholic stance on this.  But as I have said, God is forgiving, and for anyone to be desperate enough to take their own life, in my eyes is not a sinner, that is God's judgement and his alone, and it is for Him to forgive.
There are many who choose suicide consciously and it is planned meticously(terminally ill patients, unrelenting mental illness) and there are many who do it unconsciously, it is a bad judgement, ( they're lonely, confused, scared, broke etc, get drunk/drugs, jump off a cliff.)  If they had their choice again, they would not do it!  How can any of these people be sinners?  I honestly believe no one wants to kill themselves, they just want to end the pain.

buttercup

[kalt]

Suicide is the prerogative of the individual.  In this planet, in this world, people live entirely to suit their own purposes.  This is a day of rights and personal liberties.  Because of this, culture in general has lost a large amount of its commitment to others and commitment to morality simply for the sake of tradition.
If you can speak your own mind and go where you please, then you can do as you please too.  Everything has a consequence, especially actions taken in this life.  I think most people take this course of action for lack of true realization of the consequences.
Christianity embraces freedom of will and freedom of choice.  By that method, suicide is supported by Christians.
I don't see any support for, "free will" in the Bible though.  However, if that god truly meant suicide to not happen, he would not have made it a possibility and such a sought after escape for many people.

In the end, if you want to ask yourself if suicide is a sin or not, and if a confused person incapable of looking past the current tragedies in his/her life is going to go to hell, ask yourself how good your god is that he would allow such a thing or not.

I know this thread will bring a lot of minds to the subject at hand.  Life represents all that is good, all that is hopeful, all that is wonderful and all that is miraculous.  Even the bad things in life are good, for without the bad there wouldn't be the good.  It isn't about what you can escape that I want those of you in trouble to focus on, but what you'll be missing.  If you don't fit in with society because humanity isn't what it once was, then don't go.  Stay and fight for that virtue, that compassion that's being lost with every new music video that's coming out and every new selfish politician appointed.  Find that compassion that you feel deep within you after reading a beautiful poem, after visiting the museum, after a long talk with the elderly generation that's been through things like Hitler and Vietnam.  It's the compassion that's reflected back to us everyday in nature, the beautiful sunset and the glimmering of the morning dew on the sweet bed of rosemary and lavender.  There is so much to live for than to die for, and living is what makes it all worthwhile.

Whenever life gets tough, I say to myself something that means the absolute world to me.

"Climb every mountain,
Ford every stream,
Follow every rainbow,
Till you find your dream."

Sister Maria, Sound of Music.

[Jeannette]

As a heads-up I am going to give you an indirect answer to this question.

Christianity has been around for several hundred years, and as such its teachings and beliefs have been altered, changed, and interpreted differently depending on who was passing it on.

I am a christian, however I am not really sure if there is a solid foundation of initial christian beliefs.

Take this into considerations, there are 25 versions of the Bible in English, all of them differing in some form or fashion...the differences even involve different words in certain areas.

So to kind of answer your question, there are going to be many different ways of looking at suicide in the christian faith...the thing you have to find out for yourself is what do you believe in your heart, since that is the only true answer.

[Terra]

Suicide isn't a sin. But I do believe it is a disappointment to God. If you have faith in God, then you trust him. If you trust him, you believe that he will help you weather the current storm.

I see suicide as giving up, throwing in the towel. To me it means admitting that the world is right, and that I will never make it as a woman. That there is no place for people like me, so why bother to change things? Top it off, what does it say to the next generation that has to deal with this, where do they take inspiration and hope?

Suicide hurts more then those left behind, it hurts those who you will never now meet and affect. It says God is incompetent with his children, and it dishonors him. So suicide isn't a sin, but it isn't looked upon kindly.

[kalt]

It says God is incompetent with his children, and it dishonors him. So suicide isn't a sin, but it isn't looked upon kindly.

Funny, I was under the impression that disrespecting god was a sin.

I remember Elijah killing 40 youths for disrespecting him(they called him a bald man).

Pretty bad...

[RebeccaFog]

It says God is incompetent with his children, and it dishonors him. So suicide isn't a sin, but it isn't looked upon kindly.

Funny, I was under the impression that disrespecting god was a sin.

I remember Elijah killing 40 youths for disrespecting him(they called him a bald man).

Pretty bad...

I hate people who kill 40 youths.  Are you sure they weren't "yutes"?

[Terra]

It says God is incompetent with his children, and it dishonors him. So suicide isn't a sin, but it isn't looked upon kindly.

Funny, I was under the impression that disrespecting god was a sin.

I remember Elijah killing 40 youths for disrespecting him(they called him a bald man).

Pretty bad...

Hmm, I stand by my earlier statements, but I also think that nothing in this world is black and white. Therefore suicide being a sin can't be a black and white answer. I think it depends on someone's situation.

[Kimberly]

My opinion is that those terms are not in fact vague, an really "Thou shalt not kill" pretty much sums it up. Shame it's not a bit more specific to casually omit the microbes with each breath and the animals/plants at each meal. But meh, tend to be critical of things that are handed to me by man that relate to the divine. Simply, I listen, I do not need man to tell me, ergo I am distrustful of the written laws and such, especially given that, while I know the Bible holds TRUTH I also know that there is not truth within, so, I avoid the whole deal But that said, "thy body is thy temple" is all fine and dandy but certainly isn't saying that you should defile said temple. Just implying that it would be a silly thing to do. But, you have to realize that "Temple" to me is an typically in an Egyptian or Persian setting and oh those things were nice. An that this is just my take on the words presented only, not in their context. An oh don't we just love out of context stuff, but anyway...

<content removed>

P.s. It isn't a world of nothingness.

For what my thoughts are worth,
Sand in the wind...

[SusanK]

if ur a Christian.  suicide is a sin.  the only person that can take life from u is God.  if ur not a Christian u'll get other answers.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/julyweb-only/42.0.html

Thanks for the link, but it seems to me it's saying that God doesn't think suicide is a sin but some faiths or churches may find it immoral, and only then if you narrowly define suicide so that it does not have any external forces effecting the individual and their choice, which we know is not realistic or true. We all live and make decisions, and then act, in the world. We don't exist and then die in total isolation.

I don't subscribe to the narrow definition of suicide, as it can easily be seen as someone simply dying by inaction or actions which will bring about death.  If someone just gives up on life and dies shortly thereafter, is that suicide? If someone has an terminal illness or death and decides not to extend their life, is that suicide? If someone knowingly does something that has the certain risk of death, is that suicide?

Suicide, in my view, is simply another choice of death. And unless you have personally sat on the brink of it to understand it, it's not, in my view, fair or right to judge anyone who decided it was their only option. And no faith or religion can make it a universal sin because they want to. And no teacher/preacher/priest/etal of faith has the right to replace God as the judge of anyone. We're not answerable to another person about the value and meaning of our life, but God.

But that's my view.

[Suzy]

Since Nero asked this question under the Christianity thread, I'll attempt to give an answer.  But it may not be the one you like if you are looking for a simple yes/no answer.

First, what is sin?  We have to decide that first or this conversation is meaningless.  Quite literally, in Greek, "to sin" means to miss the mark.  It is like an archer shooting at a target.  There is one bullseye and many "sins".  In other words, God has a will for our lives.  When we turn aside from that path we "sin."

So, is it God's will that we live miserably?  I don't personally believe we serve that kind of a God. I will go out on a limb and say that there is indeed a lot of sin surrounding any suicide.  I see sin in the people whose bigoted views have made life so hard for us, sin in a society which refuses to act justly, sin in the life of a person who wants to end his/her life just to make things easier without taking into account the destruction left behind.  I see sin in institutions who have made others feel like the only way out is suicide.  I could go on, but there is enough sin to go around here.

Now sometimes, however, the circumstances are different.  Think of a soldier who makes a choice to fall on a grenade to save his buddies.  That is suicide.  Is it a sin?  Hardly.  What about those who hid Jews during WW2 and faced certain death rather than give them up.  That was suicide.  Is it sin?  I don't think so.

And what about suicide in the case of severe mental illness?  Is that a sin?  The water gets quite muddy here.

I also think it is a sin to hold on to this life at all costs when the quality of life has gone, such as the elderly with terminal illness.  Here the water is quite muddy as well.  But I do know that Christians believe in life after life.  One of the greatest ways to act upon our faith sometimes is to let this life go, either for us or for a loved one.

What about in hospitals when a treatment is sometimes worse than the disease?  Is is suicide to refuse treatment even when it will bring death?  I don't think so.

As far as "sitting on the brink," I assure you that I have been there, too.  I haven't gone over primarily, not because I am worried about what might happen to me, but because I could not leave the ones I love with that mess to clean up.  Having been on the other side of things, I assure you, it's tougher than most people think.  It is out of accordance with my faith to do such an unloving thing.

Now I've said all of this without quoting Bible passages, but as far as the "hell" question, I simply point to one verse which is one of my greatest comforts in this life:

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."  Romans 8:1

Peace, all!
Kristi