Will he?

[jentay1367]

As unlikely as it seemed just days ago, it is very much looking as though the POTUS may actually end up facing Impeachment proceedings.. Anyone have any comments on recent events and where they may actually lead?

[itsApril]

Not with both houses of Congress in Republican control.  Ryan and McConnell will protect him.

[jentay1367]

Hmmmm. I don't believe they will in light of facts coming forward. I still believe those people are Americans First, and they serve at the pleasure, second. They still have Mr. Pence if he goes away. If things keep rolling along the way they are, It's going to snowball and his "friends" will fall by the wayside.

[redhot1]

Why?

Wouldn't POTUS being impeached make things 10x worse regardless of the shenanigans of the Trump administration?

[Deborah]

I don't think it's going to happen either as long as the Republicans control Congress.  They have already amply demonstrated that their first loyalty is to the billionaires that pay their campaigns.  Their second loyalty is to the Christian Right who will embrace any monstrosity in exchange for political power.  Loyalty to America and its ideals doesn't even make the list.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[jentay1367]

I don't think it's going to happen either as long as the Republicans control Congress.  They have already amply demonstrated that their first loyalty is to the billionaires that pay their campaigns.  Their second loyalty is to the Christian Right who will embrace any monstrosity in exchange for political power.  Loyalty to America and its ideals doesn't even make the list.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

If that's all true? and it just may be...the Republic is already dead. If you're correct, the Constitution is no more than a dishrag. Party over Country and the rule of law is the beginning of the end

[Deborah]

If that's all true? and it just may be...the Republic is already dead. If you're correct, the Constitution is no more than a dishrag. Party over Country and the rule of law is the beginning of the end

You might find this interesting.

Judas, Tax Cuts and the Great Betrayal

By Paul Krugman @ NYT

http://nyti.ms/2pJcg8Z

The denarius, ancient Rome's silver coin, was supposedly the daily wage of a manual worker. If so, the tax cuts that the richest 1 percent of Americans will receive if the Affordable Care Act is repealed — tax cuts that are, obviously, the real reason for repeal — would amount to the equivalent of around 500 pieces of silver each year.
What inspired this calculation? The spectacle of Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, and Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House, defending Donald Trump's firing of James Comey. . . .


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[jentay1367]

You might find this interesting.

Judas, Tax Cuts and the Great Betrayal

By Paul Krugman @ NYT

http://nyti.ms/2pJcg8Z

The denarius, ancient Rome's silver coin, was supposedly the daily wage of a manual worker. If so, the tax cuts that the richest 1 percent of Americans will receive if the Affordable Care Act is repealed — tax cuts that are, obviously, the real reason for repeal — would amount to the equivalent of around 500 pieces of silver each year.
What inspired this calculation? The spectacle of Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, and Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House, defending Donald Trump's firing of James Comey. . . .


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Read it. Was watching FUX News last night (in an effort to keep an eye on my enemies) and Dobbs was engaged in the Hyperbolic nonsense of character assassination of anyone left of John Birch. A rant that quite honestly,  left me a bit ill. Of course, for the most part he's, "preaching to the choir" so to speak. But still? Does no one care about the rule of law and the Constitution any longer? This is a crisis of grand proportion and no one seems to care. "Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee".
     If the right allows the rule of law to be tossed out. It's only a matter of time before all is lost, that includes their interests as well. It's breaking my heart.

[RobynD]

The Republic is not dead but it is in crisis mode at the moment and the Oligarchs, the fascists, the authoritarians that are desperately holding on to the idea of white, christian branded, hierarchical based society not that dissimilar to South Africa under Apartheid, want the republic to be effectively dead.

It's going to be hard to kill because of the courts, because of state governments, because of the press that is just starting to wake up to the crisis now. As i understand it, there are three other paths to his downfall that could happen.

1. The justice department, the FBI or even local Federal Law Enforcement (the US Marshall) could actually arrest him for a crime. That does not remove him from the office but it makes it extremely hard to carry on and govern.While, the AG Sessions, himself under criminal activity at present could head that effort of by firing the acting director of the FBI for instance. The strangeness and pressure from such an event would likely cause his own party to abandon him. If Pence were to be sworn in, he has his own set of legal issues around the Russia thing too.

2. Paper cuts - lots of investigations, lots of spotlight on the conflict of interests, the breaking of the law etc could bring him to the point where not only is governing impossible but the pain flows over and divides the Republican side itself. We have already seen evidence of this in several areas. That forces a resignation at some point and lots of back room dealing to make it work.

3. Despite all their efforts the Red side of the aisle realizes that there is electoral disaster facing them in 2018 and no amount of voter fraud investigations, voter suppression or gerrymandering is enough to help them fend of that disaster. They take control under someone like McCain and drive actual impeachment etc.

The thing is the people through resistance, the press because they realize their own profession is at stake and politicians who still believe they have a future would be bring so much discomfort to the current government that change would have to be made.

[jentay1367]

All you say is true Robyn...in a perfect world. The problem I see with your perspective, is that the POTUS Base still defends him. So I don't see any change of hands in 2018. Mr. Comey needs to come forward now and tell what he knows. I'm more than a little disgusted with his behavior right now. Nothing can occur till someone stands up and does something. My concern is for watching the widespread apathy in the face of recent events. The POTUS's party needs to show their integrity and derail this freight train now.

[Deborah]

We will get past this even if it takes a few years.  It's important to remember that Trump lost the popular vote by a wide margin.  The majority of Americans DO NOT stand behind him or the Republican Party.  He was only elected because of our peculiar system that was originally established to protect slave holders.  That and voter apathy in the Democratic Party.  Hopefully what's going on now will wake those people up to the consequences of not voting or casting protest votes with write in names or faceless third party candidates!


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[SailorMars1994]

We will get past this even if it takes a few years.  It's important to remember that Trump lost the popular vote by a wide margin.  The majority of Americans DO NOT stand behind him or the Republican Party.  He was only elected because of our peculiar system that was originally established to protect slave holders.  That and voter apathy in the Democratic Party.  Hopefully what's going on now will wake those people up to the consequences of not voting or casting protest votes with write in names or faceless third party candidates!


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Not to dount you or come across as rude and annoying but you strongly underestimate the Republicans. It is true, in the last quatar of a century they can only claim victory to one year, 2004 and even then the margin was small. But still, the GOP was ''victorious'' in 3 of the 7 elections since 1992. The Democrats keep losing everything when they really shouldnt. Since 2008, they lost the House, Senate, over 1000 state wide seats and many governerships. How can a party lose that badly considering Americans agree with the Dems on education, healthcare, guns, lgbt rights, the enviroment, minimum wage, seperation of church and state, avoidance of war, womens health, ect...

I hate to be the bringer of bad news but polls also show the Democratic brand is less trusted then the GOP and even Trump. That is a MASSIVE failure on the Democrats part. How can a party, which is far more for the average American (let alone minorites)  lose such support and credibilty. How can a state like Michigan which has been suffering hard over GOP mismanagment at the state wide level break from the federal Dems for the first time since 1988 and support a man who is even more to the extreme of Michgians state government?  THESE are questions the Democratic Party need to ask, and in my frank opinion, the Donald would still face the possibility of being re-elected in 2020 (even if i and most people around the world wouldnt)

[Deborah]

Not to dount you or come across as rude and annoying but you strongly underestimate the Republicans.

And I was so uplifted by my last post and you went and spoiled it all.  grrrrrr

LOL

You do make some good points though.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[SailorMars1994]

And I was so uplifted by my last post and you went and spoiled it all.  grrrrrr

LOL

You do make some good points though.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Sorry <3, I want the Dems to win as much as you do, I just do want to anyone to have the same ideas that Trump is going to be toast.. we thought that this time last year. Then in November, we go our worlds turned

[SadieBlake]

I would rather express it as the Dems didn't perceive their position as desperate where the Republicans clearly realized it was. I believed and still believe that Sanders would have won the general election but he couldn't win the party because he's not an insider in the same way Hillary is. The Dems ran what they considered the safe choice.

Had he been eligible, Obama would have won a third term handily against anyone in the Republican stable.

What Obama and Trump and Sanders all have in common is that for one or another value of the term they are populists and decidedly not establishment candidates - the Democratic machine was behind Hillary for '08 until Obama demonstrated soundly that he could see it up without their backing. Barack's primary money all came without the help of the DNC and he used that as leverage to change the DNC rules for the better. Notably those rules were changed back in Feb '16.

The whole reason Obamacare didn't have a single-phase *option* was because when Ted Kennedy passed away the MA Democrats ran an establishment candidate, Martha Coakley who was easily beaten by Republican Scott Brown. This cost dem control of the Senate at a critical time.

[jentay1367]

We can all thank Debbie Wasserman Schulz for her effort in usurping Sanders opportunity to win the Democratic ticket. I believe Sanders would have beaten Trump. Schulz meddling made sure that the already jaded youth vote became uber jaded and did not show up to support the Party. Grrrrrr....

[SailorMars1994]

You're right Sadie and Jentay. I agree fully with what you said. I didnt relize just how badly that 2010 senate election in MA mattered for single payer. Thank you for the education Sadie. As to you girls other point, Sanders would have won the election and I think fairly big. I have a hunch he would have carried not only every Cintons state, but would have kept Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Ohio and Michigan blue. Iowa and Florida could have gone either way, but i think Sanders probably would have picked up Arizona in a general election.

[SailorMars1994]

.....Granted, maybe it is time for a new (or not so new) party? Call in the Progressive Party, colour it green and allow only progressives (as the GOP basically only allows hard righties) and allo them to keep the Dems on the run. Canada has a 3 party system, I think the US should too...

[SadieBlake]

I don't think the mathematics of our system allow for effective 3rd or more party participation. Love to see it because I agree with you, I just don't think it works in our context.

[Deborah]

What people need to realize is that the Republican Party is no longer the conservative party.  Instead it's gone back to its 1930's roots as a Nationalist party complete with its embrace of totalitarian dictators.  What really needs to happen is that it either reasserts itself as conservative or that it goes the way of its predecessor, the Whigs.  I can only wish.  :-(


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote