Female Priviledge

[Victoria L.]

I don't really believe that actual female privilege is a thing, I agree with those who say that only men really have privilege. The context of a misogynistic society hangs over every little thing that might come up into my mind that women apparently have better.

However, one thing that has always bothered me over the years, being in band and orchestra, is concert attire. Men are forced to either wear tuxedos or what is called "concert black", which is still long sleeves and pants. Women, on the other hand, have such a variety that can be worn. Dresses, suits, etc. Women can even wear short sleeves!

When looking at the broader picture, I know that the classical music world is very misogynistic, though, and that clothes "privilege" is small (and it's not as simple as it looks). Plus, I realize I'm just dysphoric. Do guys even actually care about this stuff? Apparently men actually like tuxedos.

[randim]

Privilege is somewhat in the eye of the beholder.  Women can choose not to participate in the labor force without social disapproval.  Is this privilege?  Maybe if they have a partner that's a good provider.  If they don't, and have to participate in the labor force, "privilege" disappears rather quickly.   There are societal gender differences that work to women's advantage I suppose.  Women do have more license to experiment with their appearance and presentation.  Emotional expression is much more supported.  In theory, violence against women is less tolerated.  (In practice, perhaps, not so much.) But any privilege based on a stereotype of women as weak and in need of protection is a rather two-edged sword that harms more than it helps.

[Michelle_P]

Women have certain unique privileges related to gender role, just as men have some unique privileges.   In general, however, men have quite a bit of privilege compared to women, which appears everywhere from salaries to social interactions in mixed company, to simply occupying space in public or social environments.

I've been doing the Real Life Expeience thing for a few years now, and am all too familiar with the differences in privilege.

[Astxl]

I dont' see any of that "female privilegue" maybe the unique thing in here, is, boys can't hurt you.

The persons who don't pass thinks so much in that estereotypical things and is like, well you never are gonna pass, why do you think that to much lmao XD i dont' wanna be rude, just honest.

[KimOct]

I am avoiding that completely.

We are women too, but we also know male privilege

For male privilege,

Being consider knowledgeable before actually talking about it (more male oriented subjects though)

I agree that we also know male privilege.  The majority of us spent most of our lives in the closet including myself and I definitely benefited from white male privilege.  The degree of it is shrinking but it is still a thing.

I am going to catch up on this entire thread when I am not so exhausted.  Personally it has opened my eyes and increased my empathy learning how marginalized people live.  I have learned much from living as openly transgender.

[Ricki Wright]

While I appreciate a good debate (even one as over hashed and over hyped as this topic is), there seems to be some polarization preventing actual discussion regarding the word

Privilege

I would like to suggest that replacing that one word with "Positive Social Norms" OR "Negative Social Norms". This will allow people to bring up both the positive, and negative aspects of expected behaviors of, and toward, each gender. To define a "Social Norm' it would be an act, expectation, or belief that if seen would not be deemed as "out of place in society". As social norms can differ from place to place (New York is different from California which is different from India...), it may help prevent confusion if people at least define the area in which they are speaking about.

Ricki

[Lucca]

Hmm... well, let me put this out there. I'm still not out and am publicly male. The other day, I was out with a group of people, and the conversation drifted into politics. I started airing my grievances towards Hillary Clinton, particularly in regards to her silence about Bill Clinton's sexual assault allegations. A guy in the group got angry about this and started defending her honor, and then a third guy started taking over us and repeatedly insisted we end the conversation and change the subject.

This is supposedly something that commonly happens to women, right? Yet, it happened to me. One man got visibly angry about an opinion I had, another one just straight-up talked over me until I didn't have any other choice but to shut up. This stuff can happen to men and people identified by others as men, too, and I believe it mainly happens in liberal social circles where anyone identified by the group as a straight white man is expected to follow a party line and not rock the boat, because we're supposed to be voluntarily taking the back seat and letting the persecuted minorities take the lead. This isn't the only time something like this has happened, I have the hardest time getting anyone to listen to my opinions or my problems without being summarily dismissed, because they're not opinions or problems that a white man should have. By contrast, I've seen women make similar complaints no one bats an eye

Depending on the social setting, women are a lot more able to talk about their emotions, opinions, and personal problems than men are, even in mixed company. This may be a generational thing, too; young white men are conditioned to harbor a lot of white male guilt that older men probably didn't experience when they were young. It's gotten to the point where I'm just about done with certain "friends" of mine, because every time I try to be emotionally open to them, they just get angry at me. They refuse to believe that a man could legitimately feel silenced, stifled, or threatened by anything a liberal politician does, so they just don't take me seriously and straight up insist I don't talk about it.

[Kylo]

As someone who lived over half my life tagged as female, I can confirm that female privilege - in the same way we define the word for men, as a collection of advantages or favorable situations generally bestowed by others in society unto you solely on the basis of what's between your legs - exists.

It is not transferable by definition to the exact same position as men, by default. I.e. if women have the privilege of, for example, the fact it is an undeniable social taboo for men to beat the crap out of women the same way they can get away with doing to a man, then men can't also access this same privilege. And vice versa.

[Allie Jayne]

While I have seen privilege for both genders, I have often missed out on my share and benefitted at times. I have lived my life as a male, but I am empathetic, caring, and not aggressive, so my career prospects were limited by guys who would simply talk over me. At my divorce custody hearing, I was found to be the preferred parent, and my ex wife was ordered to pay me child support. I joined a single parents support group (all women) and they told me I would need to register for single parents pension so I could stay home and look after my 2 pre schoolers. My family and friends who saw me as a man, felt I had no moral right to stay at home on benefits to raise my children. My compromise was to work from home. Looking like a man, but behaving like a woman confused many around me and generally robbed me of privileges.

3 men walked past me while I had a toddler in each hand, and a woman finally opened a door for me. It was nice.

Allie

[Maid Marion]

Yes, female privilege certainly exists.   Females aren't perceived as a threat the way other men are.  Both sexes have shared intimate details of how their industry works.  Doubt I'd be privy to that if I was perceived as male.

As far as career goes, I've figured out that except for one IT guy with highly needed skills, I'm likely the highest paid person where I work without management responsibilities.  Given that I'm paid enough for my needs, I'm OK with that.

[Lucca]

Additionally, I think it's simply objectively true that men have fewer options regarding their personal appearance than women do. Imagine a man going to work one day wearing a dress and feminine makeup; at the very least, he would get a lot of weird looks and many co-workers and supervisors asking for an explanation. At the worst, he would be told to go home and change, and fired if he refused. By contrast, a woman can wear pants and no makeup to work, no problem, no one giving her a second look. If anyone did give her a hard time about it, they'd probably get a talking to from HR.

Male dress codes for work environments are also extremely unflattering and ugly, frankly, even on men. Khakis and a tucked-in button-down shirt only look decent if you're very skinny, bit if you're a man who feels uncomfortable with his body image, tough-luck, your workplace dress code probably requires you to wear your shirt tucked in, even if it doesn't require women to. Male "fashion" in the workplace is based on some arbitrary standard of "professionalism" with no regard for the physical or emotional comfort of men, while women have the option to wear a wider variety of clothing that may be more comfortable and flattering.

[CindyLouFromCO]

In my world the only privilege I have over men is being let out of the elevator first, doors being opens for me, and other regular social norms.

In my career there really are none.  If you're a woman in IT you have to prove yourself first before anyone takes you seriously on your team.  Being attractive, with a innocent sounding voice really makes it even harder.  The guys thought I was some airhead that's just there to fill in space on my newest project.  I've learned from another awesome woman that I have to insert myself, speak up, and call others stupidity out tactfully. 

My mom taught me that our power is in our beauty (that cost more money and time for us).  I don't believe this as explained above in IT.  In IT technical positions being beautiful hurts a woman.

So I really think everything is relative to ones situation.  However I feel that men do have more privileges in life overall.

[Lucca]

"more" vs "less" privilege isn't a very valuable concept when you consider that any given person may not have the "average" amount of privilege, so to someone who receives less privilege than average for their gender, it's not any consolation for them to hear that most members of their assumed gender receive a lot of privilege, so their own lack of privilege deserves to be unexamined.

Like many people here, I work in IT. I am very frequently interrupted, talked over, or have my input dismissed, and have been rather blatantly insulted over aspects of myself that I'm sensitive about, like difficulty in reading others' emotions or interpreting vague instructions differently than I'm "supposed" to, and have never received a genuine apology. Trying to be open about my feelings and grievances has just dug me further into a hole. Being "assertive" has just gotten me in trouble. I've been told to just forget about past mistreatment and move on instead of continuing to seek redress, and to be accomodating in the future when it happens again instead of making complaints.

I'm pre-transition and look and sound like a 6+ foot tall white man. Being viewed as a white man is certainly not itself a free pass to "privilege" in the IT field. There are additional personality traits, interests, and social competencies you need to have in order to qualify. If a woman were treated the way I am at work, most social liberals would probably be aghast, but because I'm a "man", who cares? Since the treatment I face at work is only publicized as something women experience, men who have them are dismissed.