I don't think I'm trans anymore

[SadieBlake]

Jayne, I consider my being trans as a first world problem and that's true in both the normal sense -- I live in a modern world and am as healthy and prosperous as I could ask for, on the other hand, the rigid ideas about gender are social constructs, not really inherent and by all accounts many hunter-gatherer tribes take gender differences in stride.

If your quandary is simply that transitioning will cost you some material wealth or leisure time, I'm sorry, I have little sympathy. My career isn't affected today by transition the way it would have been when I first realized I'm trans. Even at that, compared to many others I'm fundamentally employable in a variety of fields and my GCS has been covered by insurance. Lots of people I know don't have those advantages.

Lastly why not be content with being somewhere between genders? There's nothing written that says you have to identify as either binary or whether or how you would go about transitioning. Also, panicking never helps. You're treating this as a crisis, that's probably why your wife is. I suggest stepping back, accepting that you are who you are and that figuring exactly what that means may take some time to work out.

I'm not saying it's easy, it's not. Most people transition when the difficulties of confirming to assigned gender become worse than the difficulties of transition. For me being post-op feels pretty darned good at 14 weeks. As much as the first 6-8 weeks post op were difficult, they're far better than all the years I struggled with knowing something was wrong but not knowing what.

[JoanneB]

By the way, I have never loved myself. I have been saying that I should have never been born for as long as I can remember. And now I believe that more than ever.

I could have written this, and more, a hair over 8 years, before I came to the point in my life I needed to take the Trans-Beast on for real. My wife was absolutely shocked when we first started dating when she asked me one of her typical questions "What are your Hopes, Wishes, and Dreams?" ......... Blank stare in return. What are those? I one hope, one wish, one dream since like the age of 4. By 5 I saw it was likely never to be. By 7 I knew I would never be. Still I prayed, I hoped, I wished.... until I just gave up, mostly

In the ensuing decades I morphed into a lifeless, soulless "Thing" with no hopes, wishes, or dreams; bar one give up on years earlier. A deep dark shame filled dream. Yet it turned out upon reflection of the many disasters of my life, that it wasn't that dream at the root of it, it was the lifetime of accumulated Shame & Guilt that doomed me.

I needed to fix myself, from the inside as there was no hope for the outsides. It was hard work. Many a night crying yourself to sleep. My poor Teddie Bear never the less, forgave me for the soaking he received.

An amazing thing happened during this healing process; I began to love myself. I began to not just love, more importantly to accept myself for who and what I am. It was and still hard work to but well worth it. I spent several decades doing things I know do not work. I hit upon something that does.

Sure, my wife isn't all that thrilled about some of the updates. Overall, she is very happy being with me as I am today, vs that "angry" thing she says I became. It has been a major struggle for her, probably more so then mine. She saw her entire world view and future blown up and years of lying and betray. All I saw the slight glimmer of hope that this new tack may yield positive outcome overall as opposed to the doomed future ahead.

[Jayne01]

Jayne, when you're happy doing something as a male and the dysphoria is gone, do you think the "as a male" part contributes more to the happiness you feel, or the "doing something?" If the former (as a male) is essential, then I do understand your confusion. If the latter (doing something) is the key, could it perhaps be that you simply feel good and don't feel dysphoria because you're doing something you like, and the "as a male" part it is not very relevant?

Zirconia, thanks for you detailed reply. I have asked myself that same question. I don't know the answer. I am not capable of interpreting my own feelings. When I think I feel a particular way, (happy, sad, or whatever) I don't know if that feeling is genuinely what I am feeling or what I "should" be feeling based on the situation. Sometimes I wonder if I am some kind of sociopath who is incapable of having feelings of my own.

[Jayne01]

If your quandary is simply that transitioning will cost you some material wealth or leisure time, I'm sorry, I have little sympathy. My career isn't affected today by transition the way it would have been when I first realized I'm trans. Even at that, compared to many others I'm fundamentally employable in a variety of fields and my GCS has been covered by insurance. Lots of people I know don't have those advantages.

No, that's not my problem. The company I work for has a good equal rights policy to cover everyone, including transgender. I'm not worried about losing my job and it is a very good job that has allowed my wife and I to live a comfortable life.

Lastly why not be content with being somewhere between genders? There's nothing written that says you have to identify as either binary or whether or how you would go about transitioning. Also, panicking never helps. You're treating this as a crisis, that's probably why your wife is. I suggest stepping back, accepting that you are who you are and that figuring exactly what that means may take some time to work out.

I don't understand non binary and living between genders. That doesn't compute in my brain. I can accept that some people feel comfortable and best identify non binary, but I cannot make that connection for myself. I cannot understand how someone can be neither male or female, or be both (unless you are intersex which I am not).

[Jayne01]

I could have written this, and more, a hair over 8 years, before I came to the point in my life I needed to take the Trans-Beast on for real. My wife was absolutely shocked when we first started dating when she asked me one of her typical questions "What are your Hopes, Wishes, and Dreams?" ......... Blank stare in return. What are those? I one hope, one wish, one dream since like the age of 4. By 5 I saw it was likely never to be. By 7 I knew I would never be. Still I prayed, I hoped, I wished.... until I just gave up, mostly

As best as I can remember, I never had such dreams. When I was a child, I remember imagining myself growing up in my father's image. As a man, not a woman. How can my brain do a backflip and think I should be female after 40 years? Should it not have been a lifelong desire?

[Devlyn]

I don't understand non binary and living between genders. That doesn't compute in my brain. I can accept that some people feel comfortable and best identify non binary, but I cannot make that connection for myself. I cannot understand how someone can be neither male or female, or be both (unless you are intersex which I am not).

For my part I can't understand how someone can't understand it, but I'll try to explain. I'm part man, part woman. Sometimes I know the man is driving the body, sometimes the woman is (most times). I feel a change, or more aptly, suddenly notice that a change has happened. I know that's really technical stuff, but if you read it slow a couple times it should become clear. 

Non-binary/genderfluid/two spirit persons are the true unicorns in the world. 

Hugs, Devlyn

Hugs, Devlyn

[Jayne01]

For me non binary is the equivalent of trying to travel in opposite directions at the same time. It sounds like an impossible scenario.

[Devlyn]

That describes bi-gender to me, but bi-gender people aren't going opposite directions, they're coexisting.

[kelly_aus]

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." - Arthur Conan Doyle

Non-binary is not impossible, nor is it even improbable. I too thought it was a somewhat wacky idea, until it became a possibility for me.

And maybe I had it easy, I never had any real questions about who and what I am. I always knew I wasn't a man. There were some minor issues sorting out specifics of whether I was nonbinary or a binary woman. As it turns out, I seem to be kind of on the cusp of both, in the end, binary woman won out.

[SadieBlake]

No, that's not my problem. The company I work for has a good equal rights policy to cover everyone, including transgender. I'm not worried about losing my job and it is a very good job that has allowed my wife and I to live a comfortable life.

Which is what I thought - but you *did* say that you didn't want to stop enjoying the things you get to do with your success. And I'm sorry but you contradict yourself a lot, you said in your other thread what changes you did notice and I replied that those were things I experienced also. that there were a

I don't understand non binary and living between genders. That doesn't compute in my brain. I can accept that some people feel comfortable and best identify non binary, but I cannot make that connection for myself. I cannot understand how someone can be neither male or female, or be both (unless you are intersex which I am not).

I don't know as understanding is the point. For me this whole journey has been about recognizing (time after time) that my "understandings" have been wrong. You said you sometimes feel male, sometimes female. To me that simply sounds like non-binary which is why I suggested it.

Accepting a thing doesn't always require understanding it, it would seem you're pretty clearly trans. Then again people have certainly been able to think themselves all the way to gender confirmation surgery. The way I trust is to get quiet enough inside that you can feel what you are and what you want. Those IMO aren't things you can learn by analyzing.

As best as I can remember, I never had such dreams. When I was a child, I remember imagining myself growing up in my father's image. As a man, not a woman. How can my brain do a backflip and think I should be female after 40 years? Should it not have been a lifelong desire?

Nope, late onset transexuals are hardly uncommon, I had no idea I was transexual until I was 41. I'd cross dressed for sexual reasons like twice in my life and fantasized about it more but never made the connection to being mtf.

[Dan]

Until yesterday the non-binary thing didn't compute in my brain either. It was just unfathomable to me and unworkable. So what happened? I went to a social event, dressed the way I usually do for such occasions, trousers, jacket, shirt and a loosely slung tie. I felt quite the suave guy in a crowd of mostly females, most of whom knew me from way back. I chatted with a few people, felt good about my larynx gently vibrating against my shirt collar. I was beginning to feel more my real male self than ever.

Then, one of my female friends whom I've not seen for a long time, expressed that she wasn't feeling so well. I was never big on empathy and expressing caring. Those emotions I considered to be female and I didn't want to be part of that stereotype.  In the past I would have just smiled and said that no doubt she'd feel better soon and walked away.  This time, I actually sat next to her, held her hand and listened to her woes. WOWEE! This is new! This is what females normally do. I actually felt OK doing that. It's like, now that I am free to identify as a male, I am also suddenly feeling free to express my feminine side. I felt like a soft, caring male. As I sat next to her, I remembered the cismales in my life who were in fact caring and empathetic ( I came across two such specimens), and the transwomen who were strong and caring at the same time. I felt encouraged by them to explore both sides of me.

And it felt good! I didn't have the need to push it away. Is this non-binary? Hmmmm. Maybe it isn't even being non-binary, thinking about it. Maybe it is really just allowing myself to express the whole me.  Why are we ascribing how we feel to be either feminine or masculine? Haven't we all be socialized into fitting into these separate boxes? Is being free to express one's whole person being non-binary? If so, then that's me and I am understanding how this can work. This does not mean that I will suddenly wear women's fashions. That's not me at all, but it doesn't mean that I therefore sit on the purely binary spectrum.  Life allows for more creativity than that.

[jentay1367]

So are you continuing your therapy with these thoughts in your Dr's purvue? Does she understand that you feel this way and this is all she shares? I understand you feel your therapist is a good friend but perhaps you would be served by seeing a psychiatrist and exploring other avenues. Your experiences sound different than what most of us have known and it seems some fresh perspectives at this point may do you a world of good. Sometimes we get too close to someone and tbey can't be objective any longer. Perhaps that's why you feel you're in this limbo you're in. At any rate, I think a paradigm shift might help. Given the chaos that's your psyche right now, it certainly can't hurt. You know the old saying....keep doing what you've been doing and you'll keep getting what youve been getting.

[Jayne01]

...The way I trust is to get quiet enough inside that you can feel what you are and what you want. Those IMO aren't things you can learn by analyzing.

What do you mean feel what you are? Being me doesn't "feel" like anything. It just is! Is doesn't make me feel hit or cold , I don't feel any chronic pain. If I am hungry, I know it because my brain has analysed the symptoms like my belly might start growling. Therefore I must be hungry and should eat something. Everything depends on analysing the problem at hand and coming up with a solution.

[JoanneB]

What do you mean feel what you are? Being me doesn't "feel" like anything. It just is! Is doesn't make me feel hit or cold , I don't feel any chronic pain. If I am hungry, I know it because my brain has analysed the symptoms like my belly might start growling. Therefore I must be hungry and should eat something. Everything depends on analysing the problem at hand and coming up with a solution.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)

I have a bad habit of analyzing things to death. Doing so pays well but works like total crap in my personal life. In fact... I don't think it ever worked.

Also not ever working were the hundreds of things I tried over decades to keep the GD at bay. Well, actually to try to keep Joanne locked away in the deepest darkest dankest dungeon of my soul. Somehow she always managed to escape. So rather then beating her down once again in a futile effort to never see or think of her again, I figured I had to do something different. Something I would not normally do. Sort of like "Opposite George" from Seinfeld. (lot's of similarities between George & I)

Eventually we worked out how to peacefully coexist together. Over time more and more she ran things. We still split responsibilities. Sort of how I came to recon I needed to use the Non-Binary label for myself. It was for my sanity. My GD wasn't so severe that I needed a full medical & social transition, yet I needed some of the medical and some of the social in order to live and have Joy in my life rather then Shame & Guilt. If I thought I was in a No-Win, needed All-In situation I'd only grow increasingly depressed over time over an end game I'll never likely get to.

[amandam]

Jayne, I've just determined I am trans and not a CDer. I went to the doctor for referral to a therapist for this and generalized anxiety disorder with catastrophic thinking. I did a lot of things like you, made being male and female a black and white situation. Hung out with bikers and stoners, got into cars, bikes, trucks. Then with a family, I wanted to be the "perfect television dad" and still do act in that role. All the while, being a CDer and fighting CDing. Became too stressed, and self-medicated for years. Wishing I was just a normal guy. If you think about it, what I was doing above was "crossdressing" to feel like a version of the man I thought I should be. And then I'd crossdress to feel like a woman.

What helped me. Stop thinking in black and white. You may have built up this huge male persona like I did. But, it wasn't the real me. I am not John Wayne, though a part of me wishes I was. I am David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart as a man. I accept that.

I am dealing with the trans issue, but doing the above did help. You need to chill out on the fighting. Fear is the only darkness.

[SadieBlake]

What do you mean feel what you are? Being me doesn't "feel" like anything. It just is! Is doesn't make me feel hit or cold , I don't feel any chronic pain. If I am hungry, I know it because my brain has analysed the symptoms like my belly might start growling. Therefore I must be hungry and should eat something. Everything depends on analysing the problem at hand and coming up with a solution.

Actually Jayne hunger is located in the limbic brain, specifically in the hippocampus and you don't actually need to think much about it at all to know you're hungry, in fact you can't access or affect the limbic brain with conscious thought (which is why depression and PTSD are hard or impossible to address with talk therapy).

This part of your brain is what connects to the body and is the seat of both pleasure and pain. That's what I'm talking about being quiet enough to feel.

[Jayne01]

I have never been what one might call a typical man's man. I'm not into football or tough muscle cars or bodybuilding or any macho male type activities. I had a motorbike for a while which I loved riding, but the only other people I knew with motorbikes would ride their bikes like they were trying to prove something. They would exceed all the speed limits, go around corners like they were on a race track and generally try to outdo each other. That all made me very uncomfortable. I was quite happy to just cruise around on my bike enjoying the outdoors. I ended up selling the bike because I didn't fit in with these people and would always get left behind in a group ride. I have never been like John Wayne nor have I ever tried to be like him. But that never made me think I wasn't man enough and should be a girl.

I'm not a doctor. I don't know what a limbic brain or hippocampus is. I have heard the term hippocampus but I don't know what it does. Being hungry was just an example I came up with. However there are many times that I would have to think about it to know I am hungry. I have missed many meals because I didn't realise I was hungry until I started getting a headache and feeling a bit woozie. I would then wonder what is wrong with me and realise that I haven't eaten. I tell myself that it must be hunger and lack of food that made me feel this way, so I would go eat something and then I'd feel better. So in my case, I often do need to think about it and analyse the symptoms to know I am hungry. So maybe this part of my brain you talk about that connects to the body has a broken connection.

[JoanneB]

I have never been what one might call a typical man's man. I'm not into football or tough muscle cars or bodybuilding or any macho male type activities. I had a motorbike for a while which I loved riding, but the only other people I knew with motorbikes would ride their bikes like they were trying to prove something. They would exceed all the speed limits, go around corners like they were on a race track and generally try to outdo each other. That all made me very uncomfortable. I was quite happy to just cruise around on my bike enjoying the outdoors. I ended up selling the bike because I didn't fit in with these people and would always get left behind in a group ride. I have never been like John Wayne nor have I ever tried to be like him. But that never made me think I wasn't man enough and should be a girl.

I too far from being a Man's Man. Former big fat target of derision. Yet I had a passion and a talent for "male" things. Like getting 400+ HP out of my 302 Camaro engine which was far faster in a 1/4 mile but not even close to the fun of 500+ HP out of a 454 cuIn former Corvette engine. Rice rockets were my friends and only vehicle able to on public roads to achieve my goal of tripling the posted 65 MPH speed limit.

BTW - I hope by "Those People" you mean Hardly Ableson owners. Those "guys" with what I call "Fragile H Syndrome" that forces them to remove the mufflers under the guise of "So the cars can hear me" Yeah, Right LOL. Oh and the Gorilla bars! WTF

I am sure many other "Adrenaline Junkies" have similar tales. We all have our own ways to Quiet the Noise. Or my favorite, the 3D's; Diversions, Distraction and Denial of the GD. It works, quite well, even for decades. But costs you your soul.

What helped me. Stop thinking in black and white. You may have built up this huge male persona like I did. But, it wasn't the real me. I am not John Wayne, though a part of me wishes I was. I am David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart as a man. I accept that.

I am dealing with the trans issue, but doing the above did help. You need to chill out on the fighting. Fear is the only darkness.

+1 Binary Thinking only leads to pain

   "I must not fear.
    Fear is the mind-killer.
    Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
    I will face my fear.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

[Jayne01]

BTW - I hope by "Those People" you mean Hardly Ableson owners. Those "guys" with what I call "Fragile H Syndrome" that forces them to remove the mufflers under the guise of "So the cars can hear me" Yeah, Right LOL. Oh and the Gorilla bars! WTF

It was various bikes. Only one guy had a Harley, the others were dual sports and touring bikes. I had a sports tourer and a dual sport. I am also ashamed to say that the last bike I owned was a Harley. I don't know what I was thinking, it was not even remotely the type of bike I enjoyed riding. I can only put it down to temporary insanity! I sold it after a few months and currently have no bike. I don't even know what I would buy if I was to go looking for a new bike.

[Mandy M]

Zirconia, thanks for you detailed reply. I have asked myself that same question. I don't know the answer. I am not capable of interpreting my own feelings. When I think I feel a particular way, (happy, sad, or whatever) I don't know if that feeling is genuinely what I am feeling or what I "should" be feeling based on the situation. Sometimes I wonder if I am some kind of sociopath who is incapable of having feelings of my own.

Hi Jayne,

Thank you so much for sharing all this and in such a heartfelt manner. There seems to be a lot of wisdom and love in the replies you have received.

I have a good psychotherapist friend, herself trans, who thinks a lot of trans people are unhappy. I mention this because my friend's point is that transitioning may not always lead to a perfect solution in the manner in which we hope. There may, in some cases, be underlying issues which we also require addressing.

It's a tough (and possibly unpopular) message this, but someone wrote about gender fluidity. I increasingly feel this is an important concept: that we should not be gender absolutist. Most of us are probably somewhere between an idealised male and idealised female, rather sitting contentedly in one of those poles. That fluidity may be a helpful way for you to explore your own truth: perhaps with some hormones, but equally perhaps not.

What I would urge if you've not already done so is to find a really good psychotherapist or counsellor to work through that very point: finding what is right for you, your truth.

Good luck with this journey and all good wishes and love as you find your way.

Mandy x