Quote from: Ejo on August 25, 2017, 10:17:13 PM
I won't mention specific dosages due to the rules of this site, but I've been on 66% (2/3) of the maximum recommended dosage of spironolactone and on 100% the maximum recommended dosage of finasteride since January 2017.
In March 2017 my estrogen level had doubled, but remain well below the female range and my testosterone level was about 1% below the low end of the male range.
In March my spironolactone was increased to the maximum and I continued with the max dosage of finasteride also.
Today I got my latest blood results and my testosterone has now increased to the low end of the male range and my estrogen has decreased by about 10%.
I am completely puzzled about this. If anything, my estrogen should have kept rising and my testosterone dropping.
This is the reason, I feel, estrogen and testosterone levels should NOT be measured as they are misleading and can trigger anxiety, confusion and depression in some when really, they shouldn't and aren't reliable.
Spironolactone BLOCKS testosterone. At very high doses, above those recommended for transwomen, in cismen, after 4 months, T levels did not change and YET, most of the men had gynecomastia and some, impaired spermatogenesis. This is because, I repeat, spironolactone blocks testosterone (and DHT). Blood test results ignore this and this is why they are, in my opinion, completely useless. Also, if your SHBG has increased as it probably has, some of that T is bound to it so that really only part of what you measure is biologically active. Another reason why blood tests can be inaccurate. So disregard those levels, seriously.
As for E levels, these fluctuate, on an hourly basis in people, even on transdermal E. So, they mean nothing. E levels might have been higher or even lower, had you drawn your blood at a different time. The other thing is you don't know how sensitive you are to E so that your body may only need low amounts, right now, to respond effectively. Blood tests can't measure sensitivity. So, again, disregard those levels, seriously.
Instead, focus on the changes that are taking place, if any. Breast growth, fat distribution, skin texture, testicular shrinkage, sperm, erections, how you feel. If these are happening and are good, what is the problem? And if they aren't, after awhile, then discuss with your doctor about possible changes.
QuoteBy the way, I can't take estrogen due to a prior DVT. It's just too risky even with blood thinners
The latest studies suggest otherwise. You could show these to your doctor.
Climacteric. 2017 Aug;20(4):331-338."as reviewed in reference47,
transdermal estradiol also does not confer any additional VTE risk in women at high risk such as from obesity, prothrombotic mutations and a personal VTE history. Therefore transdermal estradiol is not contraindicated in these patients who thus may benefit from MHT if required."
"This MHT could also be optimal for symptomatic patients with various health risk factors such as risk factors for venous thromboembolism and ischemic stroke, hypertension, diabetes mellitus, metabolic syndrome, obesity, smoking, and especially for (very) elderly people7."
Biochem Pharmacol. 2013 Dec 15;86(12):1627-42. "There was no increase in VTE risk with the use of transdermal estrogen, even in patients with pre-existing thrombophilia [15]."
This is based on a study in transgender women who had no DVT despite thrombophilia who were prescribed a moderately high dose of transdermal estrogen. I can PM you the study, if you wish. Studies in men with prostate cancer, of an advanced age, at a higher risk of getting a DVT due to age and active cancer, found a high dose of transdermal estrogen did not lead to thromboembolic complications and actually decreased the risk, by normalizing clotting.
The risks and drawbacks from having no sex hormones in your body for a lifetime can be many and quite high. There is nothing to justify this approach, as well, IMHO, based on the recent studies. Food for SERIOUS thought...
Quote from: Dani on August 26, 2017, 06:17:16 AMTestosterone is produced in 2 areas, testicles and adrenal glands.
The adrenal gland mostly produces precursors to testosterone, such as DHEA-S, DHEA and androstenedione, converted to T in peripheral tissues.
QuoteThe testes are the biggest producer and until those are removed, you will always have a significant amount of T in your body, even if it doesn't do much.
If you take certain anti-androgens and still have testicles, these anti-androgens will stop testicles from producing T, like LhRh agonists, cyproterone acetate and even spironolactone (indirectly through enzyme inhibition), if you give it enough time, in certain people, and at certain doses (spiro is less reliable for this).
QuoteAfter the testes are removed the adrenal glands produce enough T to keep you in the female range.
Premenopausal women produce T from their ovaries and adrenal glands so that once testes are removed, we actually end up having less T than them, on average and quite often, levels will be below the female range or in the lower range.
QuoteThis is good. A little T will give you a little extra energy and emotional confidence.
Insufficient for some, perhaps. This depends on a host of factors.
