Re: Myths in our community that need to die a quick death

[Steph]

Hmm,
I'm new here.
But If I had to say which myths in and arround/about our community that NEED to die a very quick death...


#1: Trans. people are pervs, that just want to sneak into restrooms so they can see girls naked.

-Yeah, that one needs to die.

#2: Taking herbal supplements like phyto-estrogen is dangerous, and/or innefective.

-This one really gets me riled up, as I use herbals just fine.

#3: All trans. people are depressed and/or at risk for suicide, and/or need therapy.

-Well excuse me! I'm sorry, I know our numbers are high compared to other focus groups, and it is a real problem for many in our community; -but not all! Some don't have these sort of issues, and it can be frustrating to hear the FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) all the time! It tends to lead people to thinking that those who aren't are lying, and/or just being arrogant or something. It's just not true.
Kill this! Quick!

#4: 20-somethings and younger share the same values and beliefs about being Transgendered as the "old-schoolers", and if we don't, we're just being arrogant, snotty little kids.

-This is not just a transgender issue. This of course applies to everywhere, But my generation in general (Gen Y) does not value the same stuff as any previous generation. We tend to ask "why?" and we don't get an answer, or the answer we get is not satisfying, and/or make sense, we tend to not do it. Period. We tend to be critical thinkers and skeptical, and unintimidated by making change happen. This tends to scare the older Gens, as we just don't "go along with it". We also tend to be pretty pissed and Un-impressed or even down right angry with teh way the previous Gens have run things(global warming, national debt, anyone?). So we speak our mind. And we tend not to care whether anyone else likes what we have to say or not. Some things need to be said (like Pro life, Pro War???). That said, we base our respect for our elders off their actions, and not their seniority (we think respect is earned and natural based on one's actions, not entitled)
-So generally when we disagree, we say so. And often loudly.

-One thing regarding sensitivity for us (gen Y and younger). Previous generations (especially generation x) tended to (and do) regard therapists, therapy, psychology, councilling and psychiatry very highly. We (my gen) tend not to, and in some cases are extremely and very, VERY hostile towards the subject and /or even the suggestion. Especially those of us who are transgendered. Many of us were forcibly hospitalized or put in "behavioral modification programs" to try and "modify", shrink, or medicate  our transgender-ness out of us. I remember very clearly when the therapists stole my clothes, and I was marched into a room full of age-peers and parents of such to have my own mother (at the therapists suggestion) pull my training bra out of the paper bag where they had stached it, and procede to drape it over her head in an effort to use humilliation to get me to "change my 'innapropreate' behavior". Even thinking about it fills me with rage.  I had not yet come out, or even begun to address within myself what I was. This sort of thing is common place with kids therapy and is beyond innapropreate. It deserves prison in my opinion.
I know a lot of my generation who shared similar "therapy" experiences.

Which leads to the final myth:

#5: Suggesting Therapy to someone is OK.
-It's not.  Especially not to those of us who had it forced on us as children. And of the transgendered youth that's probably most of us.
Be REALLY careful with this! Approach the subject REALLY carefully when talking to someone 20-ish and younger. We were therapied enough! To us, this is like asking us if we have found Jesus. Keep your religious, and Psychological beliefs to yourself unless you know it's ok to talk about! You are guaranteed to get along with Generation Y much better that way!

-Some thoughts
-Sarah

Angry...

Never the less...

It seems that you were not treated well by us gen x'ers.  That's so sad, but please don't use such a wide paint brush.  We are not all bad.  This is a support site and folks come here looking for support which is given based on the experience and knowledge of the folks giving it.  They don't have to take heed of the advice given, but if we are asked we will give it and give it unconditionally.  Everyone is treated with dignity and respect, and i hope that you will see this.

As far as the therapy thing goes, you say that "We were therapied enough", who is the "We" are you referring to all?  It would be irresponsible of us to advise folks to take an attitude like "Ya, you know best, just go out and do your thing, what the heck do we care, we've never seem folks self destruct here before".  It's safe to say that many of us resented being told that "We" need to be in therapy (myself included) for who knows better than I do, I know what I want, I know what's best, it's my life.  Truth is many times that leads to tragedy.  So if we advise on something that members don't agree with so be it, they don't have to take it.  Remember, if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

Steph



Posted on: December 10, 2007, 09:54:13 PMMyth...

That all post op's are arrogant know it alls, who are suddenly blessed with infinite wisdom.

Like many we simply have experience - good and bad.

Steph

Posted on: December 10, 2007, 09:58:52 PMFor Sarah.

Please don't get me wrong.

We were all in that place you find yourself now, and our elders treated us much the same way.  And your sons and daughters will feel the same way about you.  We gen x'ers were children of the sixties, Make Love not War, Peace, Woodstock, Tie died and paisley, and these immortal words come to mind:

"Signs"


V1
And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, me working for you
woah!

Chorus:

Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

V2
And the sign said anybody caught trespassing would be shot on sight
So I jumped on the fence and yelled at the house, Hey! what gives you the right
To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in
If God was here, he'd tell you to your face, man you're some kinda sinner

Repeat Chorus:

Bridge:

Now, hey you Mister! can't you read, you got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't even watch, no you can't eat, you ain't suppose to be here
Sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside Uh!

V3
And the sign said everybody welcome, come in, kneel down and pray
But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all,
I didn't have a penny to pay, so I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
I said thank you Lord for thinking about me, I'm alive and doing fine

Yep, we all have seen that, done that, got the tee shirt.

Steph

[tekla]

Anger is an energy, but unfocused anger is just a waste.  It can eat you up as fast as guilt and shame can.

Please do not use the world "We" unless you are the king or queen of someplace - hence the term, the 'royal we' - because you do not, and can not speak for everyone.  Some people have been hurt by therapy, others helped by it, some ignore it, others seek it.  What works for one, is not a solution for all.

I've never heard that anyone wants to sneak into bathrooms to see people naked.  Just don't happen.  What may happen may well be worse (or more perverted, wanting to see people naked is a pretty common human trait), but that is not the problem.

If you are that young, you have no idea how well herbals work, because this stuff only works over time.

Your generation is no better or worse than those that came before, or will come after, no more or less enlightened either.  Oh, so you show your disrespect loudly?  Like louder than the baby boomers who almost shut the US down over the war?  OK, not that loud.  But how loud?  And to what end?  And again with the "We."  Were you elected spokesperson or something?  Not all of your generation believes that.  I'm willing to bet, not even most.

I doubt if that kind of therapy was common.  At least in the US, its actionable.  It conforms to no set standards and you could sue them.

I'm not interested in getting along with any generation any better or worse.  I try to get along with other people as human beings, not as a statistical aggregate.  Some are good, others bad, some very bad, and a few downright wicked (I like them the best).  It ain't a matter of age, its a matter of maturity and experience.

[Sarah]

Hmm,
I'm new here.
But If I had to say which myths in and arround/about our community that NEED to die a very quick death...


#1: Trans. people are pervs, that just want to sneak into restrooms so they can see girls naked.

-Yeah, that one needs to die.

#2: Taking herbal supplements like phyto-estrogen is dangerous, and/or innefective.

-This one really gets me riled up, as I use herbals just fine.

#3: All trans. people are depressed and/or at risk for suicide, and/or need therapy.

-Well excuse me! I'm sorry, I know our numbers are high compared to other focus groups, and it is a real problem for many in our community; -but not all! Some don't have these sort of issues, and it can be frustrating to hear the FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) all the time! It tends to lead people to thinking that those who aren't are lying, and/or just being arrogant or something. It's just not true.
Kill this! Quick!

#4: 20-somethings and younger share the same values and beliefs about being Transgendered as the "old-schoolers", and if we don't, we're just being arrogant, snotty little kids.

-This is not just a transgender issue. This of course applies to everywhere, But my generation in general (Gen Y) does not value the same stuff as any previous generation. We tend to ask "why?" and we don't get an answer, or the answer we get is not satisfying, and/or make sense, we tend to not do it. Period. We tend to be critical thinkers and skeptical, and unintimidated by making change happen. This tends to scare the older Gens, as we just don't "go along with it". We also tend to be pretty pissed and Un-impressed or even down right angry with teh way the previous Gens have run things(global warming, national debt, anyone?). So we speak our mind. And we tend not to care whether anyone else likes what we have to say or not. Some things need to be said (like Pro life, Pro War???). That said, we base our respect for our elders off their actions, and not their seniority (we think respect is earned and natural based on one's actions, not entitled)
-So generally when we disagree, we say so. And often loudly.

-One thing regarding sensitivity for us (gen Y and younger). Previous generations (especially generation x) tended to (and do) regard therapists, therapy, psychology, councilling and psychiatry very highly. We (my gen) tend not to, and in some cases are extremely and very, VERY hostile towards the subject and /or even the suggestion. Especially those of us who are transgendered. Many of us were forcibly hospitalized or put in "behavioral modification programs" to try and "modify", shrink, or medicate  our transgender-ness out of us. I remember very clearly when the therapists stole my clothes, and I was marched into a room full of age-peers and parents of such to have my own mother (at the therapists suggestion) pull my training bra out of the paper bag where they had stached it, and procede to drape it over her head in an effort to use humilliation to get me to "change my 'innapropreate' behavior". Even thinking about it fills me with rage.  I had not yet come out, or even begun to address within myself what I was. This sort of thing is common place with kids therapy and is beyond innapropreate. It deserves prison in my opinion.
I know a lot of my generation who shared similar "therapy" experiences.

Which leads to the final myth:

#5: Suggesting Therapy to someone is OK.
-It's not.  Especially not to those of us who had it forced on us as children. And of the transgendered youth that's probably most of us.
Be REALLY careful with this! Approach the subject REALLY carefully when talking to someone 20-ish and younger. We were therapied enough! To us, this is like asking us if we have found Jesus. Keep your religious, and Psychological beliefs to yourself unless you know it's ok to talk about! You are guaranteed to get along with Generation Y much better that way!

-Some thoughts
-Sarah

Angry...

Never the less...

It seems that you were not treated well by us gen x'ers.  That's so sad, but please don't use such a wide paint brush.  We are not all bad.  This is a support site and folks come here looking for support which is given based on the experience and knowledge of the folks giving it.  They don't have to take heed of the advice given, but if we are asked we will give it and give it unconditionally.  Everyone is treated with dignity and respect, and i hope that you will see this.

As far as the therapy thing goes, you say that "We were therapied enough", who is the "We" are you referring to all?  It would be irresponsible of us to advise folks to take an attitude like "Ya, you know best, just go out and do your thing, what the heck do we care, we've never seem folks self destruct here before".  It's safe to say that many of us resented being told that "We" need to be in therapy (myself included) for who knows better than I do, I know what I want, I know what's best, it's my life.  Truth is many times that leads to tragedy.  So if we advise on something that members don't agree with so be it, they don't have to take it.  Remember, if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

Steph



Posted on: December 10, 2007, 09:54:13 PMMyth...

That all post op's are arrogant know it alls, who are suddenly blessed with infinite wisdom.

Like many we simply have experience - good and bad.

Steph

LOL
I don't paint you all(gen x) with the same brush. LOL
I have many good gen x friends, (even some who are therapists by proffesion!)
Just keep in mind, Therapy is not a universally accepted "good" or "effective" thing.
Some view it as quite harmful and have experience to back it up.
When I speak of "us" I clarified that in my post. Gen Y.
Most I know, my age tend to agree with me on this:
Therapy often does more harm (sometimes irreparable in this lifetime) than good.
There are other methods.
As I said, I know that it is great for some, but not for all and for some, therapy simply can't work.
Other methods like meditation, yoga, tai chi -are far more effective and safer.
To me, and to many I know of my age range, suggesting therapy is sort of like suggesting I need Jesus.
It brings to mind arrogance, ignorance, and insensitivity on the suggesters part.
Oh, we know, they mean well, -so do the Christians!
But it's just not appropreate.
Gen X tends to have a hard time understanding this, and they tend to respond to this sort of thing as you have.
But I deffinitely have noticed that we of my generation tend to not accept the findings of "therapy" as scientific fact or laws of the universe. And the idea that someone who went to school for councilling, who does not know me or anything about me, could "treat" my "problems" is absurd to me. This also ties into my problems with the current trend to give every little personality quirk a "diagnosis" and to medicate everything under the sun that might be ever so slightly uncomfortable.
LOL
So don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with people using it, but it is a religious belief as far as I am concerned and one I do not share. I don't like Proselytizing.
I mention it because your generation tends not view the subject as a religious belief or "worldview" and whereas mine does.
You do of course what you feel is right, but keep in mind, If you are a Christian, everybody else needs Jesus.
-Sarah

Posted on: December 10, 2007, 10:33:13 PMTekla:
Is "we"a generalzation? Of course it is.
I'm going to use it anyway though.
I speak for myself and for and from my own experience.
I know too many people who agree with me  of my generation.
I'm not afraid to use words. And I won't be politically correct.
I'm not going to use that "own the statement" psychological stuff.
Do you  understand that when someones says something like "you always.." that they don't really mean literally, exactly, that "you, always, do.."?
I call it like I see it, and experience it.
I brought it up, because suggesting therapy to some people is highly offensive, and as I see it there is a myth that:
"Suggesting therapy is appropreate for everybody"
My meditation practice works just fine for me thank you!
LOL


These are pretty much the responses that I expected from older folks;
Reminders of exceptions, speech corrections, political correctness, defensiveness.
LOL
*sigh*
oh well..
I tried..

[RebeccaFog]

These are pretty much the responses that I expected from older folks;
Reminders of exceptions, speech corrections, political correctness, defensiveness.
LOL
*sigh*
oh well..
I tried..

Me too.  Like that dancing gang guy in West Side Story said - "YOU WERE NEVER MY AGE!!!!"

I wonder where that guy is now?  Did his dancing get him through the blood/crypt wars?

I'm not making fun of anyone here.  But, by law I am required to make jokes if I see an opening.

[tekla]

I never said that therapy was good for everyone.  I said its worked for some, so I don't discount it.  I know others who it did not work out so well for.  One size never fits all as it goes.  And I don't know.  I've never done it myself.  I had other outlets, and parents who saw things different than yours did I guess.

And using 'we' is not just a generalization, its poor writing.  Your story, any story, is far more important, far more powerful when told in personal terms, rather than trying to extend it to everyone in any group or class.  What makes say "The Diary of Anne Frank" as powerful as it is - and it has real true power - is that she is not writing of the entire experience of European Jewry, she is writing about just her and her family, in that attic, and in that simple story, the entire whole becomes not just a bunch of statistics, but real.  And more than just real, its genuine.  Being genuine it truly touches people's hearts.

And I'm sure you know many, you might even know most, but most is still not all.  And the ones you know are only those around you.  Life is very different in different places, and in different classes.

And, yes, I do understand that when people say "you always" they don't mean is, which is why it weakens the writing,  dismembers the story, submerges the narrative, and shatters the prose.  Mean what you write, and write what you mean.  It means much more to the reader that way.  That kind of generalization makes it much easier for the reader to discount it.  Why do that?

[Ell]

LOL
I don't paint you all(gen x) with the same brush. LOL
I have many good gen x friends, (even some who are therapists by proffesion!)
Just keep in mind, Therapy is not a universally accepted "good" or "effective" thing.
Some view it as quite harmful and have experience to back it up.
When I speak of "us" I clarified that in my post. Gen Y.
Most I know, my age tend to agree with me on this:
Therapy often does more harm (sometimes irreparable in this lifetime) than good.
There are other methods.
As I said, I know that it is great for some, but not for all and for some, therapy simply can't work.
Other methods like meditation, yoga, tai chi -are far more effective and safer.
To me, and to many I know of my age range, suggesting therapy is sort of like suggesting I need Jesus.
It brings to mind arrogance, ignorance, and insensitivity on the suggesters part.
Oh, we know, they mean well, -so do the Christians!
But it's just not appropreate.
Gen X tends to have a hard time understanding this, and they tend to respond to this sort of thing as you have.
But I deffinitely have noticed that we of my generation tend to not accept the findings of "therapy" as scientific fact or laws of the universe. And the idea that someone who went to school for councilling, who does not know me or anything about me, could "treat" my "problems" is absurd to me. This also ties into my problems with the current trend to give every little personality quirk a "diagnosis" and to medicate everything under the sun that might be ever so slightly uncomfortable.
LOL
So don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with people using it, but it is a religious belief as far as I am concerned and one I do not share. I don't like Proselytizing.
I mention it because your generation tends not view the subject as a religious belief or "worldview" and whereas mine does.
You do of course what you feel is right, but keep in mind, If you are a Christian, everybody else needs Jesus.
-Sarah

Posted on: December 10, 2007, 10:33:13 PMTekla:
Is "we"a generalzation? Of course it is.
I'm going to use it anyway though.
I speak for myself and for and from my own experience.
I know too many people who agree with me  of my generation.
I'm not afraid to use words. And I won't be politically correct.
I'm not going to use that "own the statement" psychological stuff.
Do you  understand that when someones says something like "you always.." that they don't really mean literally, exactly, that "you, always, do.."?
I call it like I see it, and experience it.
I brought it up, because suggesting therapy to some people is highly offensive, and as I see it there is a myth that:
"Suggesting therapy is appropreate for everybody"
My meditation practice works just fine for me thank you!
LOL

These are pretty much the responses that I expected from older folks;
Reminders of exceptions, speech corrections, political correctness, defensiveness.
LOL
*sigh*
oh well..
I tried..

i am very offended by the tone you have taken with Steph. you seem to focus on youth. OK. i focus on what a person has read, the kind of books they're interested in reading, what music they listen to, how well they write, how creative they are. how funny and sweet they are. these things have nothing to do with age. Really being cool, thoughtful, and interesting takes effort. i feel that you have insulted both Steph and tekla, and i think they are both very cool, interesting, and thoughtful people.  Please apologize.

-ell

[Pica Pica]

I would guess I'm a Y'er. Most of us I have met are highly cynical and do not take charge of things, tend to sit down and let things happen.

I think it was the millennium what did it. We grew up in the ten years before the millennium with an explosion in creativity and (for us in england) a huge shift in the ruling body and a general feeling that the millennium was either going to be a cataclysmic end or an exciting beginning.

It was all so exciting and we are all looking forward to getting stuck into the world. But by the time the millennium came, and then even further by the time we are coming of age to take part in the world, everything that excited us has decayed. There was no beginning and no huge end, just a tiredness that crept over anything.

Makes it so there's no point taking part in the world.

[RebeccaFog]

I would guess I'm a Y'er. Most of us I have met are highly cynical and do not take charge of things, tend to sit down and let things happen.

I think it was the millennium what did it. We grew up in the ten years before the millennium with an explosion in creativity and (for us in england) a huge shift in the ruling body and a general feeling that the millennium was either going to be a cataclysmic end or an exciting beginning.

It was all so exciting and we are all looking forward to getting stuck into the world. But by the time the millennium came, and then even further by the time we are coming of age to take part in the world, everything that excited us has decayed. There was no beginning and no huge end, just a tiredness that crept over anything.

Makes it so there's no point taking part in the world.

welcome to reality, Chump.         (kidding)

  The world goes in cycles.  Part of what you feel is your person point of view cycling.  Even as you now feel there is no point in taking part, there is another person somewhere who is feeling the opposite.
  Individuals sometimes need personal time for recharging and self revitalization.
  Chump


Rebis

[Hypatia]

The generation who made the youth rebellion in the Sixties -- LSD, Black Power, psychedelic rock, hippies, Yippies, Haight-Ashbury, Summer of Love, turn on/tune in/drop out, love beads, make love not war, the generation gap, don't trust anyone over 30, hey hey LBJ, the New Left, the antiwar movement, people who said "groovy" -- was not Gen X. Actually, the Sixties rebels were of the "Baby Boomer" generation. And the 1991 novel Generation X by Douglas Coupland lent its name to the generation that came after the Baby Boomers, i.e. born in the Sixties.

[Steph]

The generation who made the youth rebellion in the Sixties -- LSD, Black Power, psychedelic rock, hippies, Yippies, Haight-Ashbury, Summer of Love, turn on/tune in/drop out, the New Left, the antiwar movement, people who said "groovy" -- was not Gen X. Actually, the Sixties rebels were of the "Baby Boomer" generation. And the 1991 novel Generation X by Douglas Coupland lent its name to the generation that came after the Baby Boomers, i.e. born in the Sixties.

Oopd, my mistake.

Hmm so I'm a Baby boomer... I knew I was something but I did have a blast in the sixties

Steph