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Different Degrees of Transsexualism

Started by Nero, December 19, 2007, 04:42:46 PM

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Jillieann Rose

Yes Rachael I'm jealousy or maybe a better word would be envious of the as has been said the "primary".

Envious of people who realized at a early age that they were TS.
I made it to over 50 before I understood what was wrong.

Envious of people who were able to transition before they had a life time (over 30 years) with a SO that they would hurt very deeply if they transition as well as children and grandchildren.

Envious of people who did not have, like myself, a dual personality or should I say a second person inside whom I fought with daily just to stay sane and survive for over 50 years.

But I am glad that you have been able to transition, your story gives me hope for the future.
I pray that no one has to suffer as I have and in someways continue too do so today.
Jillieann

Posted on: December 19, 2007, 11:30:20 PM
Quoteprimaries shouldnt feel superior.  they should damn well feel lucky.
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Nero

*looking around for fire hydrant to douse fire he started*

Maybe 'degrees of transsexualism' was the wrong phrase. I was just wondering if it's possible it manifests in different ways. For instance, I bear no ill will toward my genitals but some other transguys do. I know that doesn't make them any more trans than me, they just feel differently about that.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Keira

Well, whoever transition early, transitions early, and that's what I call it, early transitioner.
There is no sound theoritical basis for any other classification, if classification even exists.
which itself is in dispute.

Anyway, I just don't want to get into this because the whole classification thing is
incredibly divisive and pointless in the overall scheme of things.

We all live our lives as best we can, and hopefully its a good life.

Somatic VS social disphoria is another place where normal classifications falters
(this was not well described earlier by Benjamin). You could feel an intense need to transition socially
at an early age and then feel less driven to go the last mile to full somatic transition.
For others, a body transition as soon as possible solves all issues and then they don't
care how others perceive them (male, female, or whatever).


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buttercup

Quote from: Jillieann on December 19, 2007, 10:31:52 PM
Yes Rachael I'm jealousy or maybe a better word would be envious of the as has been said the "primary".

Envious of people who realized at a early age that they were TS.
I made it to over 50 before I understood what was wrong.

Envious of people who were able to transition before they had a life time (over 30 years) with a SO that they would hurt very deeply if they transition as well as children and grandchildren.

Envious of people who did not have, like myself, a dual personality or should I say a second person inside whom I fought with daily just to stay sane and survive for over 50 years.

But I am glad that you have been able to transition, your story gives me hope for the future.
I pray that no one has to suffer as I have and in someways continue too do so today.
Jillieann

Posted on: December 19, 2007, 11:30:20 PM
Quoteprimaries shouldnt feel superior.  they should damn well feel lucky.


Your post really touched my heart Jilleann.  You care about the future and do not wish others to suffer like you have and that is such an admirable and rare quality.
I think some people take what they can with both hands greedily and forget the trials and tribulations that others have gone through to make it all possible to start with.
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Wing Walker

Quote from: Nero on December 19, 2007, 10:33:29 PM
*looking around for fire hydrant to douse fire he started*

Maybe 'degrees of transsexualism' was the wrong phrase. I was just wondering if it's possible it manifests in different ways. For instance, I bear no ill will toward my genitals but some other transguys do. I know that doesn't make them any more trans than me, they just feel differently about that.

Hi, Nero,  Is the above statement correct on your part?

Thanks!

Wing Walker
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Nero

which statement?

another note. since 'primary and secondary' was brought up. i don't know that primary and secondary are the right terms, but i do strongly believe there is a difference between a woman who has always known she was a girl and a woman who wakes up one day around age 30 and thinks, 'you know i should've been a girl.'
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Keira


No, please Nero. ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

Now. Now. I'm better... We've "discussed" this before and there is NO POINT to it.
No matter what our belief are. They are all unsupported.
I beg that noone reopens this pandora's box.
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J.T.

of course there are different degrees, to think otherwise would be limited in thinking.  If there weren't, what would be the point of this site?  Everyone would be exactly the same.  Humans are all about variations.  Why wouldn't transsexualism be the same?
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Veronica Secret

Quote from: Nero on December 19, 2007, 10:33:29 PM
*looking around for fire hydrant to douse fire he started*

Maybe 'degrees of transsexualism' was the wrong phrase. I was just wondering if it's possible it manifests in different ways. For instance, I bear no ill will toward my genitals but some other transguys do. I know that doesn't make them any more trans than me, they just feel differently about that.

I would venture that there are as many degrees of TSs as there are TSs, each person being unique. OTOH I think there are transsexuals and those who think they are but are dealing with something else entirely. A girl in my TS support group referred to another "TS" who was giving us a ride to the BART station as "that guy." I said to her isn't it funny that there are so many people who classify themselves as trans who just vibe so male that it is hard to call them "she."

Anyway, there are degrees of dysphoria but one is either trans or not and there are an awful lot of wannabees out there which is very puzzling.

Posted on: December 20, 2007, 12:06:25 AM
Quote from: Nero on December 19, 2007, 11:13:12 PM
which statement?

another note. since 'primary and secondary' was brought up. i don't know that primary and secondary are the right terms, but i do strongly believe there is a difference between a woman who has always known she was a girl and a woman who wakes up one day around age 30 and thinks, 'you know i should've been a girl.'

I would classify that person as a non-transsexual.
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Christo

dunno.  maybe.  I dont like talkin' about this b/c people think this means "I'm more trans then u" and it aint so.  People are diferent.  some know early.  some dont.  it doestn make anybody more trans then other people.  I dont hate my bottom parts.  but I wanna get it done to use the locker room. gym, take a shower w/other dudes. I wanna take a shower where I gotta.  I dont wanna hide in a bathroom stall when I pee. I just wanna do what regular dudes do ..you know.
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Keira


Chris, plenty if real dude's don't use the urinals :-).
At home, my father's never peed standing up and
an informal poll at a christmas party showed that just 20%
peed standing up at home, in public setting, it was about 50%.

Besides this little mention; I get your point  :D.
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Wing Walker

Quote from: Nero on December 19, 2007, 11:13:12 PM
which statement?

another note. since 'primary and secondary' was brought up. i don't know that primary and secondary are the right terms, but i do strongly believe there is a difference between a woman who has always known she was a girl and a woman who wakes up one day around age 30 and thinks, 'you know i should've been a girl.'

Sounds like someone who is happy in their birth gender and presentation.
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cindybc

QuoteHumans are all about variations.

Hi Veronica and all.

I felt for myself the experiences.  Some were very much tangible and some not so easily discernible changes going on within myself as time progressed. Some of these changes were slow developing and some almost explosive like in nature.

Of course I experienced many changes, and I am not speaking of just the physical part of me but also psychological, how I felt about certain things. It was a time of growth and learning how to discern the subtle as well as the intense experiences. It changed my perspective of things in this reality, things that I was not even aware of prior to estrogen HRT.

Do you remember the gentle warning some of the girls have said here, to keep a box of Kleenex handy if you think the results of the climax of a given situation might be emotional experience?  They weren't wrong.

Each one of us is unique with our varied, different ways.  We each perceive the same occurrence but see it differently when filtered through the frame of reference we call experience.  In that way we are no different from anyone else out there. Warning!!! Warning!!! No, you are not losing it!  Enjoy the emotions and feelings! This is one way to learn who truly resides within you and it's OK to talk about it here in the group. 

A true transsexual in order to survive transitioning had better not be weak heart.

Big girls don't cry BS

Cindy
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taru

Seems like there are multiple things affecting the "degree" of being TS.

There are various kinds of dysphoria - that vary in intensity in different inviduals:
* having the right parts underneath
* being perceived as the correct gender

With the same amout of GID some people suffer much more than others due to e.g. less coping skills, more intolerant culture etc.

Some people are more extrovert and express what they feel while others find ways to avoid things exploding on their faces...

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Alison

Quote from: Chris on December 20, 2007, 12:58:47 AM
dunno.  maybe.  I dont like talkin' about this b/c people think this means "I'm more trans then u" and it aint so.  People are diferent.  some know early.  some dont.  it doestn make anybody more trans then other people.  I dont hate my bottom parts.  but I wanna get it done to use the locker room. gym, take a shower w/other dudes. I wanna take a shower where I gotta.  I dont wanna hide in a bathroom stall when I pee. I just wanna do what regular dudes do ..you know.

If it doesn't matter, then why make the distinction at all?  (Not neccesarily directed at Chris, just wanted to toss it out there)
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Rachael

i think nero did raise a good point... There have been people in the 70s, this horridly nasty time you described, who came out, and transitioned,... at a young age, and other ages. Some people on here constantly remind me of how horrid it was back then, and how easy you young uns have it today... (sound familiar?) i tell you one thing, its NOT easier... not when you loose everything becuse your parents are a***holes from 'your time' I dont find anything offensive about primary and secondry... One group, come out young, and transition young, one group transition later... seriously, if you think im falsely categorising you, please tell me, if you DIDNT transition in your 30s onwards, please, let me know, so i dont miscategorise some folk... whats offensive about the truth? or is this one of those cases of 'la la la la not listening im really a teenage girl im not 40 honest' routines?
back to the topic howerver....

i do belive there are different degrees of transexualism... i found out about myself very young, and i came out, and im ft by 20 now...
i tried to commit suicide 3 times in my teens, because i was so unhappy and in pain... i literally waited as long as i could, i suffered my maximum... i would have died if i hadnt transitioned when i did.

there are people who come out young, and transition young
there are people who come out young, and transition late, or over a longer time.
there are those people who come out later, and transition later...
thier all transexual. your all living as your true sex now... what does it matter how transexual you are? i dont WANT to be some 'awesome super cool primary' for lols... its not a status symbol to me... i just suffered more in a shorter period of time...
there are different degrees of transexualism. its fairly evident. Even if they dont want to admit it because it might ruin thier '->-bleeped-<- cred'
R :police:
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Berliegh

Quote from: Rachael on December 20, 2007, 06:19:28 AM
i think nero did raise a good point... There have been people in the 70s, this horridly nasty time you described, who came out, and transitioned,... at a young age, and other ages. Some people on here constantly remind me of how horrid it was back then, and how easy you young uns have it today... (sound familiar?) i tell you one thing, its NOT easier... not when you loose everything becuse your parents are a***holes from 'your time' I dont find anything offensive about primary and secondry... One group, come out young, and transition young, one group transition later... seriously, if you think im falsely categorising you, please tell me, if you DIDNT transition in your 30s onwards, please, let me know, so i dont miscategorise some folk... whats offensive about the truth? or is this one of those cases of 'la la la la not listening im really a teenage girl im not 40 honest' routines?
back to the topic howerver....

i do belive there are different degrees of transexualism... i found out about myself very young, and i came out, and im ft by 20 now...
i tried to commit suicide 3 times in my teens, because i was so unhappy and in pain... i literally waited as long as i could, i suffered my maximum... i would have died if i hadnt transitioned when i did.

there are people who come out young, and transition young
there are people who come out young, and transition late, or over a longer time.
there are those people who come out later, and transition later...
thier all transexual. your all living as your true sex now... what does it matter how transexual you are? i dont WANT to be some 'awesome super cool primary' for lols... its not a status symbol to me... i just suffered more in a shorter period of time...
there are different degrees of transexualism. its fairly evident. Even if they dont want to admit it because it might ruin thier '->-bleeped-<- cred'
R :police:

Personally I thought the 70's was a great time and a good springboard to transitioning and experimenting.....you could wear and get away with whatever you liked. I was about 13 and had my hair really long down to my butt, wore girls purple trousers, a red Dorothy Perkins top and 3 inch platform shoes. I even went to school dressed like that and didn't get thrown out......a lot of girls thought I was a girl and I loved that.

In some ways it was much harder in the 1980's and 1990's when male and female fashion was far more clearly defined and seperated. That was the time period in my mid 20's which I aimed to transition which I personally thought was the hardest time of my life.....

It's a bit easier these days with the internet and general practitioners being made more aware of gender dysphoria but it's still no easy ride no matter what era you grow up in or transition in...
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NicholeW.

Ah, oysters ... love 'em, especially on the half-shell with cocktail sauce and something spicy added, or just really spicy cocktail sauce! *smile*

These threads always grow like topsy. Nothing like maintaining one's own validity. Of course, doing that in a thread that basically asks that we assert we are "not like that" is heading for recrimination. And the less assured someone is who reads this, the more activated becomes their intolerance for difference. The easier it is to set up others to be "not quite like me" and that normally means someone gets hurt in turn.

Do I think there are different levels of intensity of the feeling we discover, sometime or another, in our lives that mean some never undergo any surgery, only dress? That others have surgeries, as many as they can afford, very early, that some never start hrt yet are blessed, at least for a while, with "passable" looks and builds, that others, try as they might, never quite make that passable level and tend to be discarded by others or used by others as examples of "what not to be?" Do some never get bottom, or top surgery, but maintain their TSism till the day they pass into some other plane?

All of the above. Yes, I do think that. It is, and we are, what it, and we, are. No amount of tearing down another, making comparisons with another's looks, style, choices can make me one iota more real than I allow myself to be anyway.

I think Nero's question was placed as an attempt to discover something about himself; most of our questions are. It doesn't seem like he tossed a Molotov Cocktail just to see how big the fire would get. And he should be able to ask questions like that without my getting so activated with comparisons that I just have to insist on my own superiority.

If that superiority were there to begin with, I suspect it would be evident to all without my having to shove it under everyone's noses. Instead, what I imagine I do in such a situation is I feel, keenly, my own sense of inferiority that needs comforted and the best way I know to do so is to grab the distinction and place myself in the superior position, or at least place others in an inferior position.

I spent a lot of time early in the process of trying to be in that "real TS" or high-intensity group. I didn't really need to bother though. My life was what it was. An early attempt to move toward transition ended in a terrifically horrid double-rape and I went totally within my own shell at 19, unsafe I KNEW, to be out because to be out was to be violated and abused for a very long period of time. I connected transition with being brutalized and helpless.

Thank Goddess that Mr. Benjamin never made that a criterion for being "high-intensity" or "real." (Ever notice how the guys avoid these threads like the plague? Ever wonder why? Maybe because they haven't been raised to feel they absolutely have to assert they are "the best?")

Yet, my dissonance would never go away, no matter how many resolves I made to be 'him.' It haunted me and in spite my efforts, within a year or two it was always eating at me. That was not safe either. At some point I realized that rape wasn't inevitable and that the world was no safer for other women than it was for me.   

As I was living that life I was truly miserable and totally disconnected form others. Not a good position to be in for someone who is "a social animal," as humans are designated. Ever wonder why "Human" isn't categorized into low and high intensity models?

So, these sorts of threads can be used to discuss something that actually matters to an honest individual who really has a concern they wish to discuss. Or they can be used as one-upmanship ploys by those who just need some sense of self-efficacy one cannot seem to find in any way except by making distinctions between one self and other selves.

Anyone for oysters? *grin*
   

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Nero



Posted on: December 20, 2007, 10:04:17 AM
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on December 20, 2007, 08:32:27 AM
Quote from: Nero on December 19, 2007, 11:13:12 PM
which statement?

another note. since 'primary and secondary' was brought up. i don't know that primary and secondary are the right terms, but i do strongly believe there is a difference between a woman who has always known she was a girl and a woman who wakes up one day around age 30 and thinks, 'you know i should've been a girl.'


if that is what primary and secondary means, then it is more insulting than i thought

so what terms would you use for someone who has always known and waits to transition and someone who has always known and transitions early?

your definition above does not fit that scenario.





I don't know, sweetie. I certainly didn't mean to be insulting. I'm just a weak old man.

Nevermind, I'll probably just end up locking this.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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