MtF loss of "male privilege"

[SashaHyde]

Have any of you experienced this. If so, do tel, to what degree?
Annecdotes?

--Sasha

[Lady Sarah]

I don't think I ever had "male privilege", as I was considered too effeminate. I think "female privilege" is great. Guys open doors for me, carry my groceries to my vehicle for me, and treat me with respect. I much prefer a courteous "ma'am" to a rude "sir" any day. At least people don't expect me to know jack about working on cars, either. I can always get a guy to do it for me.

It's great being a woman.

[krobinson103]

If it existed I don't miss it. I never was a very manly man anyway.

[FinallyMichelle]

I think the last time this question came up I said that I never had male privilege, that is not altogether accurate though. It was small because I had sequestered myself away for one and I never tried to be a man for another.

It's not important to me now, was not so much then either I just wasn't expecting it. Men don't really listen to me anymore or ignore me if I talk. Oh they are very attentive but they don't want my opinion on anything. That's kind of male privilege right? I have girl friends but not many, maybe I am just too different, but women will talk to me at least, I am one of them.

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Sometimes I feel like I have gained my soul and lost world. 🙂 Fair trade I suppose.

[ShadowMT13]

I don't believe that males get different rights than females, if they do then that is just wrong. I am trans f to m and honestly if our bio genders get different rights then I would not care for the female rights since I am not female I am male just in the wrong body. If you identify as a female then why do you care about MALE rights? It seems kind of anti climatic to feel this way. Though I wish you the best of luck.

[Jailyn]

Well I have seen this in a previous topic on here. The exact same wording almost. For me I don't like the concept of "privilege" of any type for a class of people we should all be equal. Right? I get why they say that. I don't believe I ever had any male privilege of any sort. The only time I have felt that gender bias was working at my job. I worked in a garden center. A couple guys were looking at mowers. I asked if they needed help. They were like "yeah we are looking for a lawnmower. Do you know anything about these?" I answered yes, I work in this department. They were like "okay." They walked off and found one of my co-workers and asked the same thing. My co-worker was male. They also asked who was the most knowledgeable on the machines. He was like "well honestly sir, Jailyn there is the most knowledgeable on them." They looked like deer in headlights turned around and sheepishly came back to me. "So tell us about these." When they walked off I was both mad and just laughing hysterically about it!!! It was just like bam, that was for assuming a woman knows nothing on lawnmowers!!!!

[KathyLauren]

I am not aware of having had any male privilege.  But then, that is the nature of privilege: it is an advantage that we get without being aware of it because of some characteristic that we have no control over. 

So even though I have lost it, I am not aware of that loss, so it doesn't bother me.  I suppose the loss of male privilege would look like discrimination for being female.  That hasn't happened to me yet.

[zirconia]

While I'm sure some may disagree, to me personally the term "male privilege" quite honestly seems just a divisive buzzword meant to insidiously denigrate males and sow discord. Again personally, I think it have no real use outside (enter your favourite flavor of) activism. So I would have to say no...

While people who know me only as female do initially assume I don't have certain skills or knowledge, it just so happens that those particular skills are more commonly a subject of interest to men than women. This actually works both ways—e.g. my uncle was a very technically oriented macho engineer type who happened to also do all the needlework and most of the other housework in his family. I wouldn't blame anyone for assuming he knew nothing about thimbles, stitch types, thread weights or how to knead pastry dough. Once they'd see him in action, though, that preconception would evaporate very quickly...

Human brains are built to use shortcuts, so rather than make a detailed skill and knowledge survey whenever we meet someone new we tend to make assumptions based on previous experiences. I myself was once tasked to demonstrate how to putty drywall, just to learn when we actually started that the group contained a seasoned veteran. She didn't advertise her skills or experience, but after one or two strokes everyone present obviously realized she was much better than I, and turned to her for instructions instead.

In my own experience the same holds true in most situations.

[PollyQMcLovely]

While I'm sure some may disagree, to me personally the term "male privilege" quite honestly seems just a divisive buzzword meant to insidiously denigrate males and sow discord. Again personally, I think it have no real use outside (enter your favourite flavor of) activism.

Could I suggest giving a quick glance at the 'male privilege' Wiki? I think perhaps your notion of it's definition is rather at odds with the accepted version.

In a overly simple way I think the term implies the occurrence of men treating women with less respect than men.

[zirconia]

Hi, Polly

As I mentioned, I'm sure some will disagree.

Yes, I know some men I know do treat women with less respect than men. However, in truth an equal number of women I know also treat men with less respect than women.

While the male and female societies overlap, they are also to some extent exclusive. Women tend to stop discussion of certain subjects when a man enters, and men also regulate their conversations when women are present.

As for workplace situations, I've worked with companies exclusively run by women that have not hired any males for years—but no-one has accused them of being biased, prejudiced or otherwise wrong. The fields include advertising, event organization, publishing and such. The environment is interestingly different than in a firm that comprises of mixed genders.

The fact is, these companies may and do hire men as contractors for certain jobs... but any man would probably feel very out of place as an official part of the company. Actually even one of my female friends couldn't stand the atmosphere and left. Should the employees change their behavior to accommodate the possibility of future male employees? Should they be sued for non-inclusivity? If not, then shouldn't they at least be rebuked for wielding female privilege... but really, I don't know of anyone who laments male privilege who would do that...

Anyway, I've really grown to dislike buzzwords and slogans of the day, as to me they seem to function to exclude logic and provoke negative emotion. It just feels somewhat amusing that in circumstances where they are used, staying calm seems to be frowned upon. I'd myself much rather discuss ways to make everyone feel better and work together more efficiently.

[Julia1996]

Oh there totally is male privilege.  Not only do the men in my family have it, they feel entittled to it. But there is also female privilege. The thing about female privilege is that a lot of it comes from men thinking women are stupid and inferior in some ways. I never had any male privilege at all. My dad and brother both were over protective and controlling of me both before and after transition. They've also both always mansplained things to me. Some of what looks like female privilege is actually chauvinist behavior. Once when I asked my brother what he was doing on his laptop he said he was doing an E payment for his car insurance. I asked him why my dad didn't have his set up for autopay like he did mine. He said because my dad didn't pay his car insurance. I told him that wasn't fair and I asked him why he didn't pay his. He told me he wouldn't want my dad to pay his insurance and I asked him why not. He said " because I have a job and wouldn't want my dad paying my stuff as if I was a sponge or something".  I asked him if that made me a sponge then and he said of course not and that it was normal for a girl's dad to pay for her stuff. Then he told me it was less stressful for my dad to just pay my insurance himself. I asked him what that meant and he said my dad just pays my insurance and that way he doesn't have to worry about me forgetting to pay it or me using all my money on shoes or something and my insurance getting canceled. So I asked him if my dad thought I was too stupid and clueless to manage to pay my own insurance but that Tyler  wasn't.  He told me my dad didn't think I was stupid but women can be flighty about bills. Then he said it was a male pride thing for guys to pay their bills. Then I told him I guessed women didn't have pride then. He said " of course you do. You have pride about your cooking and looking pretty, just not about business and guy stuff. aaaahhhhh!!! I love my dad and brother dearly but sometimes I could smack both of them. It's actually my grandpa that needs smacked. He's the cause of both their 1900 attitudes toward women!

[Allison S]

Male privilege? Yuck no thanks!
Some guys hold doors for each other. I've yet to have a guy go out of his way to do something for me though. On the train I see guys offering a seat to a woman.

Growing up as a "boy" my mom and sisters berated me for not wanting to run to the convenience store to get things "like other boys do". Yet my older brother NEVER did... they were talking about the other boys in the neighborhood. I always felt miserable over that.

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[Northern Star Girl]

In my previous male self as a school kid, college kid, and young man in my 20's and early 30's I never felt I had male privilege... Back then before transition I always had a small, slight build, little muscle and a boyish (girlish) soft looking face.  I had always felt... by personal observation... that females had the real privilege, sure, males wielded muscle, social status in sports and other male dominated interests but it was the female that could convince a male to do most things her way....   

I love the old 2002 ....movie, "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"... the older father of the bride and his wife were chatting with friends and HE very chauvinistically stated that the MAN is the HEAD....  his wife immediately spoke up and replied: 
"The man is the head, but the woman is the neck. And she can turn the head any way she wants." 
....  that is so funny, but very true for sure.

I have been full-time since Dec 2016 and lived as a female a lot of the time before that and I can tell you....  I never missed the Male Privilege thing because I never felt that I had it to start with.

[MichelleC]

I've had male privilege both help me and hurt me.
I was/am too effeminate and not manly enough to be one of the boys, and in my 28 years of big corporate life, I did not progress as far as maybe I should have, because I was not in the boys' club.  At the same time, I was also not in the women's circles and networks.  So an outsider when it's not good to be one in that sort of company, and I got passed over and also picked on by bullies male and female because I did not have the protection of one the networks.
But have I had male privilege? Hell, yes.  I was educated in the 70s and given male expectations of my station in life.  I can walk down a street at night with limited fear of rape or molestation.  I have been taken seriously by banks, estate agents and car salesmen in ways  that I would not have been as a woman. 
has my fear of losing this privilege inhibited me from transitioning?  To my shame, it has crossed my mind. 
I'm now on HRT, and so I'm losing male privilege patch by patch.  And it's liberating me. 
It's good to feel part of a sisterhood/brotherhood for once.


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[kitchentablepotpourri]

I've had male privilege both help me and hurt me.
I was/am too effeminate and not manly enough to be one of the boys, and in my 28 years of big corporate life, I did not progress as far as maybe I should have, because I was not in the boys' club.  At the same time, I was also not in the women's circles and networks.  So an outsider when it's not good to be one in that sort of company, and I got passed over and also picked on by bullies male and female because I did not have the protection of one the networks.
But have I had male privilege? Hell, yes.  I was educated in the 70s and given male expectations of my station in life.  I can walk down a street at night with limited fear of rape or molestation.  I have been taken seriously by banks, estate agents and car salesmen in ways  that I would not have been as a woman. 
has my fear of losing this privilege inhibited me from transitioning?  To my shame, it has crossed my mind. 
I'm now on HRT, and so I'm losing male privilege patch by patch.  And it's liberating me. 
It's good to feel part of a sisterhood/brotherhood for once.


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I think "the boys club" is at the top of the male privilege heirarchy, so it could be reasonable to assume that male privilege is not very substantial if one is not among the ranks of "the good ole boy network."

[Lady Sarah]

I think "the boys club" is at the top of the male privilege heirarchy, so it could be reasonable to assume that male privilege is not very substantial if one is not among the ranks of "the good ole boy network."

Where I live, you can find "the good ole boys" sitting down and drinking coffee at the local gas station, with their pickup trucks right outside the doors. Yep, all 6 of them. Such a batch of self-righteous scum they are. The way they talk about women, you might think they were a tad gay. If THAT'S what male privilege is, I'll pass. They seem to be about 60 years behind the times.

[Julia813]

This is certainly a complex topic, but I can give you a little bit of my personal experience for what it is worth. As many have indicated I always thought I did not benefit from a lot of the "male privilege" that is always being discussed in many situations and scenarios, but I can tell you that I noticed a huge difference in my career. Typically this does not happen as much with the people I directly work with, but part of my job requires me to interact with different people across the entire organization. There is a huge difference in how I am treated in these meetings than I was prior to my transition, and most of these people have little knowledge about my prior life (although I am sure many suspect). Now I get talked over, not allowed to talk at times, or as many indicate I have things explained to me that I am far more competent on than they are. This happened very infrequently prior to my transition, and now it is so noticeable that at times I purposely address it with comments such as may I please finish talking before you talk over me. My observation is that this occurs with all of the other women as well in my meetings. This is a society issue, and one that is obviously being discussed more now than in the past, but I doubt many things will change.

Is it frustrating... yes, beyond belief.... but I wouldn't trade it or who I am just for this reason.

[AnnMarie2017]

I am very much in sympathy with zirconia's point of view. I think the subject is simply grievance looking for an outlet.

I also like Aspiringperson's reference to "My Big Fat Greek Wedding."  I had forgotten that one.

[SonadoraXVX]

Very much so, to the point I don't engage in direct eye contact with males anymore, unless I'm acknowledged, since I see them as apex predators and with females, if they make direct neutral/warm eye contact good, if not, then I know to mind my own business. My therapist said, I had gotten to be a lot more wily. I have to know use, leverage, technique, timing, and strategy.

[Tamika Olivia]

TW: Mentions of sexual violence

The problem with this question is that privilege, and the marginalization that's it's opposite side of the coin, are largely systemic. I may feel echoes in my own life, like mansplaining or sexual harassment, but the largest part is in how I relate to systems of the world.

Before I transitioned, every single president of the US was the same gender that I was presenting. 80 percent of Congress at the time was presenting male. All but 4 of the supreme court justices. Every single CEO of the company I worked for, and the CEOs of most other companies. Most of the directors who made the movies I watched. And the heroes in those movies. The sports heroes other people talked about and the coaches of their teams. They wielded more power, more influence, and more money over the systems that make up my life. And they ran the systems in such a way that benefited thenselves and people like them, which included me until my transition.

If you want some examples, they're easy to come up with. How many of you who transitioned to female feel safer walking alone at night? I'd wager not many. That sense of safety male presenting people feel when walking alone is borne from the fact that men are much less likely to be targets of sexual violence. A systemic issue. Or look at STEM. Studies show that at early age there is no gender difference in performance on STEM related tasks. That difference only emerges when kids are raised to internalize the belief that boys are better at science and math. Women who run for office are more often confronted with questions, concerns, and assumptions that don't fall on their male counterparts. Women's reproductive rights are more constrained and debated.

And that's not even getting into intersections. Wage gaps get worse for women of color, as do rates of violence against them. I never had anyone care about where I needed to pee, much less legislate where I can, until I began to transition.

Privileges exist. And if you've transitioned to female, you've lost some of them, even if you cannot articulate exactly how on a day to day.

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