Saw an unsuccessful transwoman and it scared me, a lot

[herekitten]

my chosen profession of blowing glass

Pardon my going off topic, but SadieBlake --> I looove blown glass art. Is there a site where you have some of your work displayed?

[Ann W]

The point is, if we wish to escape the curse of gender dysphoria, we need to understand what is necessary to accomplish it.  Often the path to that end is all but impossible for various reasons.  If being able to pass convincingly as a woman is necessary to alleviate GD, but for one reason or another that goal is unreachable, it can feel like a dagger thrust into the heart.

This issue has been much on my mind since I discovered I was trans. It has not been a problem for me; but the agony of so many of my sisters weighs heavily on my heart.

My point of view is based on a belief I have held all of my life. I can't prove it; but I believe it: There is no such thing as a no-win situation. Because I believe this, I cannot believe that passing is necessary for personal peace. I'm not saying it can't help; obviously, it does. Oxycontin helps, too; but it's not a solution. I must believe that the real solution lies elsewhere.

For some time, I have believed that passing is like a tourniquet, or a drug designed to alleviate symptoms rather than cure the ill. Tourniquets and drugs are good things and necessary; but they are not permanent solutions. In some cases, a drug must be taken for the rest of one's life -- like testosterone blockers and estrogen, to relieve the effects of one's body generating the wrong hormone for her brain -- but it's not a solution. The fundamental problem remains.

The felt need to pass is different from physical problems, however; it's psychological/spiritual. It dwells in the realm of hope and despair. The limits imposed by a physical problem do not exist here; here, there can always be a real, permanent solution.

Insofar as passing is felt to be necessary for the sake of others' perceptions, I think it's always a mistake to place one's happiness and peace of mind at the mercy of others. Those things ultimately come from within, and that's where they must be found. That's not a specifically trans issue; it manifests in many contexts. This is not to say that it isn't difficult; it can be incredibly difficult, painful and traumatic. But I don't think the real solution for a problem like this lies in the hands of other people.

Insofar as passing is felt to be necessary for one's own sake, I feel certain that the true solution lies somewhere in the realm of re-ordering one's perceptions. I do not mean to suggest that this process is easy, either, only that it can be done. I can't prescribe the method; the specific route necessary is undoubtedly highly individual.

I would rather not use my experience as an illustration; I have come to really dislike talking about myself. But I think it has value in this context.

For better or for worse, I never experienced GD as GD prior to coming out to myself. Consciously, I didn't hate my gender assigned at birth; I hated myself. For whatever reason, GD bypassed focusing on my sex and went straight to my heart. The upside is that I was never suicidal; the downside is that I have only been half-alive for 60 years. However, since waking up as trans, I have experienced GD as GD. I can still remember the first occasion; my reaction was, "How weird!" That also happened on the second occasion. But not the third. On the third occasion, I was standing in front of the bathroom mirror after taking a shower, and suddenly felt revulsion over the male-thing I saw in the mirror. It was visceral; and it scared the daylights out of me, because I knew what it was and what experiencing it again ... and again, and again, and again ... could mean.

Fortunately, that experience has not repeated; but I'm glad I had it, because it gave me an insight into what hell many trans women live with. I can't imagine living with that feeling for any length of time. It must take great courage, and a profound will to live.

For me, GD manifested as self-loathing. I hated my name, hated my reflection, all of my life. I know this was GD, because, after coming out to myself, I was looking in the mirror one day and suddenly realized that I loved what I saw. This was unprecedented, and could only be attributed to one thing: I knew I was looking at a woman.

If my understanding of this personal experience is correct, then somewhere between my experience and the experiences of my sisters who suffer because of what they see in the mirror lies the real answer to this problem. Somehow, perception is the key. I suspect the problem has a lot to do with our socialization -- that our minds have been schooled to have many visual triggers that constantly whisper, or scream, "male ... male ... male ...," and that somehow these fuses must be defused, so that they lose their volatility.

I wonder if, understanding the problem this way, it might have cognates other places in psychological experience, where pathways to a solution are already known. Phobias, for example, can be defused by measured increased exposure to the thing feared. Maybe the answer lies in that direction. But somehow, it must be possible for my sisters to have the same experience that I do now when I look in the mirror. I find that I generally look into my own eyes; they say the eyes are the windows of the soul, and maybe that's why I see a woman now. When I look at myself, and realize my body is male, it makes me laugh. What a cosmic joke. It is my fervent desire that all of my sisters who are so distressed by their own appearance can come to feel the same about themselves.

The goal is to find mental peace and personal happiness to the greatest extent possible.  There are no hard and fast rules on how to do that.

I really liked this. I don't have a comment; I just wanted to say, I really liked it.

[jenpa]

Non-passable transsexuals scare me. I am only somewhat passable and being around others will get me clocked. There was one at my gym. She looked like a woman, but I was confused when I heard her voice...very masculine. I had to do a double take to confirm she was really a woman, but trans. I made sure to stay away from her. I am scared others will view me like that and avoid me too.

I hated avoiding her, but the problem is I do not want to get clocked.

[Cassi]

Non-passable transsexuals scare me. I am only somewhat passable and being around others will get me clocked. There was one at my gym. She looked like a woman, but I was confused when I heard her voice...very masculine. I had to do a double take to confirm she was really a woman, but trans. I made sure to stay away from her. I am scared others will view me like that and avoid me too.

I hated avoiding her, but the problem is I do not want to get clocked.

Usually, I don't take issue with what's posted and in my worst case situation, might crack a joke but not to intentionally hurt someone.

With that said, and I apologize if this offends you, but to distance oneself from others out of fear for themselves is a cop-out to me.  Kind of like the old biblical saying - He without sin cast the first stone. 

I personally have had 4 sessions at speech therapy thus far and am trying to get rid of the male command vocal.  I've been told I am doing good but hearing one's voice either in person or via recorded media is always different.

[alex82]

Very sad that the OP was jumped on so aggressively for discussing her own feelings and fears, and now feels unwelcome.

That's been my experience here too, and is why I now only tend to browse instead of writing anything. I thought I would log in to express that I too was horrified by the posts that replied to the OP as if she was some kind of monster for feeling this and daring to share it.

[Cassi]

Treat them like they have leprosy??

[Becca Kay]

Hello again all of you

So, I am in Amsterdam at the moment for a few days.  Enjoying the fact that no one really notices me and I can enjoy myself in a non-judgemental environment. 

However, I saw an older transwoman on the first day and I won't describe her in detail, but she looked a fright.  Like a man in drag in every bad way possible.

It scared the hell out of me.  I am 45 and non-passing, but I am hovering in the androgynous area.  It scares me to think that people might see me like I saw this poor woman.

I am so happy with my gender, but hate knowing that my appearance and presentation are not that feminine and I am still struggling with how to handle and present that.  I went to the hairdresser earlier in the week.  A floral blouse, women's bell bottom jeans, ankle boots with accessories.  I had foundation, mascara, lipstick, etc.  I was discretely feminine and neutral colours.  I was still consistently addressed as "sir".

I know that had I worn a skirt I'd just have been "sir" in a skirt.

Only been on HRT for a month or so, but just wondering what I need to do to tip the balance in my favour and am terrified of ending up like that woman.

what you feel is something we all feel or have felt. 

one thing i've learned though is to stop judging other queer people and how they look.  You don't know what her experiences are.  You don't know how she lives or how she feels about herself.  She may be a very happy person just the way she is.  The fact that you saw that woman and judged her the way you did is because you've been socialized to think badly of trans people and you have your own dysphoria eating away at you.  In the end all you can really work on is your personal dysphoria, not what others think of you.   

I have become a firm believer that we cannot ever be happy simply by becoming 100% passable to the cis world.  I know that some trans women want to transition and live a cis female life and never be clocked in public or outed ever again. There's nothing wrong with wanting that.  For some it's necessary for survival.

But there's also nothing wrong with being a 6 foot tall queer trans girl with stubble and masculine features.  Some of us will never appear to cis people as anything other than that.  And that's OK too. 

[jenpa]

Usually, I don't take issue with what's posted and in my worst case situation, might crack a joke but not to intentionally hurt someone.

With that said, and I apologize if this offends you, but to distance oneself from others out of fear for themselves is a cop-out to me.  Kind of like the old biblical saying - He without sin cast the first stone. 

I personally have had 4 sessions at speech therapy thus far and am trying to get rid of the male command vocal.  I've been told I am doing good but hearing one's voice either in person or via recorded media is always different.

Maybe if I had more confidence in myself. But the problem if we were seen together is it would get me outed if I am not already and it might cause her problems too. Also it might cause problems for the locker room, etc. as other members might complain. I have to be on guard at all times as a trans woman. My goal as a transwoman is to pass, first and foremost. I don't want to be political and challenge societal norms; I just want to fit in and lead a normal life. Some of my friends have expressed hatred and disgust towards transsexuals (they do not know I am one). So it is better if transsexuals do not appear together until bigotry is eliminated.

[Becca Kay]

when i started my transition last year I agonized over the fact that i would never really be passable.  Like the last three decades of shame and eating disorders it was starting right at the beginning of my transition to fill me with anxiety and shame.  I am too tall, shoulders too wide, head too big, etc.  I can manipulate myself only so far.  I will never be mistaken for a cis woman.  Even after i have my surgeries will be seen by some people as a "failure."

I had to find a way to be OK with that and instead focus on my own internal life and finding out who I am, not who other people see. I think i've made a little bit of progress.  The way I view it is that if i'm going to look to strangers like a trans woman I'm going to make sure that they remember me, that they see someone amazing, smiling and proud of who they are. 

I am proud to be a queer trans woman.  In a way I don't want anyone to mistake for a cis girl.  I lived my life before as a cisgender person and it was horrible. 

[amandam]

I think Becca is spot on. We have to accept and love ourselves. I'm deathly afraid of transitioning and looking like some freak. But is that fair? No. It's my own internal trans-phobia that says "freak". Some people will genuinely see us as freaks. Others will marvel at the bravery we had to become our genuine selves. Even many cismen and ciswomen will look upon us with respect or compassion for who we are. The fear is legitimate inside the OP and me, but it's an undesirable emotion and needs to go. Our perspective is all wrong. I intend to work on changing mine.

[Becca Kay]

i have learned that the people who matter to me in my life think of me as brave.  I recently came out and they told me so. Not everyone is as lucky as i am.  But being called brave is actually very hard for me to hear.  Because i've always thought of myself as a freak and unworthy of love or happiness because of it. 

[ToriJo]

I had to find a way to be OK with that and instead focus on my own internal life and finding out who I am, not who other people see. I think i've made a little bit of progress.  The way I view it is that if i'm going to look to strangers like a trans woman I'm going to make sure that they remember me, that they see someone amazing, smiling and proud of who they are. 

I am proud to be a queer trans woman.  In a way I don't want anyone to mistake for a cis girl.  I lived my life before as a cisgender person and it was horrible. 

Yes! I went to an event today in my town when someone I only met once in passing shouted out my name (my current one).  I asked him how he knew my name, and he mentioned when we met.  Now, I've met people with amazing social memories and maybe that's all that is going on here - but I also know people notice me these days.  It's just part of my life, so I might as well embrace it.  I've seen enough people start noticing me that I know I'm the local transwoman in their eyes.  So be it.

There's a passage in a teen novel, Divergent, about two of the characters. One of the characters, who lived her life denying herself until this point in the novel, was being "made over" by her friend. She told her friend that she would never be pretty. Her friend responded, "Who cares about pretty? I'm going for noticeable."  Well, I definitely have noticeable!  I might as well own that and find every way to use that to my advantage.

The other option? Depression. Slow death. I lived that long enough.

[Cassi]

The major theme or saying around here is that everybody's ride is different.  Some of us were of average height and build for a male and now we're dealing with the awkwardness of becoming female.

Being who is was meant to be is important to me.  I'm not doing it for anyone here or for that matter anyone else.  I have enjoyed making new friends and "transisters" here and I'll always cherish that. 

I think that being worried how others see us is a cop-out to what truly needs to be accomplished and that's finding our happiness.  Like the old saying goes "No one can make you happy other than yourself".

For sure there's uncertainty and I for one have that hanging over my head.  However, I am continuing to try to progress as I feel comfortable.  Sure it would be great if HRT was an overnight pill - take it and wake up all changed but it isn't.

Another issue is our "Humanity".  I feel sorry for the woman who didn't pass but also feel that who has or had the right to say she did or didn't if this makes sense.

History is full of people who turned their heads and let someone else pay for the same sins so to speak that they shared.

[Laurie K]

sooooo here we go.... jump on if you want

Am I a raving beauty?....no

Do I feel I am beautiful ?..... yes

Do I let what others think dictate how I feel?..... I really try  not to

Am I regretful of transition ..... not a chance

[Aurorasky]

The language policing here is outstanding. If the OP feels that passing as gender typical woman is a requirement for her successful transition, that's her definition of what a successful transition is to her and nobody should be trying to change it just because it doesn't fit your own ideals. Everybody has their own mind image of what a successful transition is, to some it's being out and proud, to others is to be  a passing, deep stealth woman and then there's all the shades in between. I agree her choice of words was poor and it did sound a bit condescending at times, but fact is, society as whole judges Trans people as group much more harshly than she ever did in her comments.

People don't like that she defined a successful transition as living as a passing woman, but then came here saying transition is about inner peace and shoving those ideas down her throat. It really is not like you are being much better, you just trying to substitue one idea for another which you find to be better. And if you really are secure about your transition as a whole, then you don't need to attack someone's ideals about their own.

[Julia1996]

Non-passable transsexuals scare me. I am only somewhat passable and being around others will get me clocked. There was one at my gym. She looked like a woman, but I was confused when I heard her voice...very masculine. I had to do a double take to confirm she was really a woman, but trans. I made sure to stay away from her. I am scared others will view me like that and avoid me too.

I hated avoiding her, but the problem is I do not want to get clocked.

I have a " non passable" trans friend. She's 17 and has only been on hrt for 10 months now. I met her when she came into work to have her hair done. I've gone shopping with her and been to the mall with her. She does get outed a lot. But I've never been outed along with her. Not yet anyway. I try to be as stealth as possible but if I did get outed because I was with her that would really suck but I wouldn't stop going out in public with her. The only support she has is her mom but her mom works a lot so she really doesn't have anyone else. To say " I don't want to be seen in public with you because you don't pass and might get me outed" would be really mean and totally messed up. I couldn't do that to someone.

[Ann W]

when i started my transition last year I agonized over the fact that i would never really be passable.  Like the last three decades of shame and eating disorders it was starting right at the beginning of my transition to fill me with anxiety and shame.  I am too tall, shoulders too wide, head too big, etc.  I can manipulate myself only so far.  I will never be mistaken for a cis woman.  Even after i have my surgeries will be seen by some people as a "failure."

I had to find a way to be OK with that and instead focus on my own internal life and finding out who I am, not who other people see. I think i've made a little bit of progress.  The way I view it is that if i'm going to look to strangers like a trans woman I'm going to make sure that they remember me, that they see someone amazing, smiling and proud of who they are. 

I am proud to be a queer trans woman.  In a way I don't want anyone to mistake for a cis girl.  I lived my life before as a cisgender person and it was horrible.

Thank you for sharing this.

In the year or so that I've been out to myself, my appreciation of beauty has changed a lot. I find that I don't need to make a mental adjustment anymore, when looking at a trans woman, to evaluate her according to a special standard for trans women that takes her genotype into account. Passing has nothing to do with it. By conventional standards, there are some very beautiful trans women; but I find I don't care about that anymore. I care about the person. The fact that she doesn't look like a cis woman is irrelevant to me. Trans women who don't pass and aren't beautiful by conventional standards can be beautiful nonetheless, because of the person behind the mask.

I think this is more than a trans truth; I think it's a human truth. We experience it differently, because of our peculiar circumstances; but I imagine there are many men who married trophy wives, and women who married trophy husbands, who came to regret their decisions, after discovering that looks are only skin-deep and it's the person behind them that matters.

Speaking purely selfishly, I love this development in my perception. It is wonderful to appreciate beauty that others do not see. It's like having a wonderful secret that you can't share. But I wish I could. Maybe if people could see this beauty that I see, they wouldn't be so easily pushed into personal crisis by their own failure to pass.

[Becca Kay]

The language policing here is outstanding. If the OP feels that passing as gender typical woman is a requirement for her successful transition, that's her definition of what a successful transition is to her and nobody should be trying to change it just because it doesn't fit your own ideals. Everybody has their own mind image of what a successful transition is, to some it's being out and proud, to others is to be  a passing, deep stealth woman and then there's all the shades in between. I agree her choice of words was poor and it did sound a bit condescending at times, but fact is, society as whole judges Trans people as group much more harshly than she ever did in her comments.

People don't like that she defined a successful transition as living as a passing woman, but then came here saying transition is about inner peace and shoving those ideas down her throat. It really is not like you are being much better, you just trying to substitue one idea for another which you find to be better. And if you really are secure about your transition as a whole, then you don't need to attack someone's ideals about their own.

if someone feels their path is to be completely passable and not recognizable as trans there's nothing wrong with that. I only have issue with how people look at others, at me, because I don't choose to or cannot because of factors out of my control, attain that same result.

If you go through all the pain and struggle of being trans I hope you learn to have empathy for others.  I would also hope we all feel some kind of connection to each other, and that we don't put each other down or avoid one another because some of us cannot attain a certain look, or voice, or mannerism.

That's all I'm trying to say.  If we cannot be each other's allies who will stand by us? 

[Sophia Sage]

I think Becca is spot on. We have to accept and love ourselves. I'm deathly afraid of transitioning and looking like some freak. But is that fair? No. It's my own internal trans-phobia that says "freak". Some people will genuinely see us as freaks. Others will marvel at the bravery we had to become our genuine selves. Even many cismen and ciswomen will look upon us with respect or compassion for who we are. The fear is legitimate inside the OP and me, but it's an undesirable emotion and needs to go. Our perspective is all wrong. I intend to work on changing mine.

It's one thing to fear being seen as a freak, and yes, that's legitimately transphobic.

It's quite another thing to fear being misgendered.  The feelings of gender dysphoria are real, and they're not going to go away with a snap of the fingers.  It goes away by changing ourselves (our bodies and presentations thereof) enough that we elicit correct gendering from ourselves...

...and other people.  If we're asking other people to use certain pronouns and not others, let's not pretend we don't care about how other people relate to us. 

[Sophia Sage]

Non-passable transsexuals scare me. I am only somewhat passable and being around others will get me clocked. There was one at my gym. She looked like a woman, but I was confused when I heard her voice...very masculine. I had to do a double take to confirm she was really a woman, but trans. I made sure to stay away from her. I am scared others will view me like that and avoid me too.

I hated avoiding her, but the problem is I do not want to get clocked.

Cis women aren't afraid of being clocked. Why?  The thought doesn't even occur.

Do not be afraid of trans women.

You look out of the kitchen window and you shake your head and say low,
"If I could believe that stuff, I'd say that woman has a halo, "
And I look out and say, "Yeah, she's really blonde,"
And then I go outside to join the others -- I am the others!

Oh, and that's not easy, I don't know what you saw, I want somebody who sees me.
I will not be afraid of women, I will not be afraid of women.

-- Dar Williams, "As Cool As I Am"