Feminists on trans girls

[TsukiCat]

Hi yall, my response will probably be biased here but I tried signing up to a feminist forum to ask but it's practically impossible to sign up to them! What's that about. Basically I'm seeing a lot of feminist shoot transwoman down as men with male privlage pretending to be women. They constantly misgender us and also is off. I don't understand this, why do people have to be like this. I don't understand as women have been segmented in society now cis women are segmenting trans. We lose male privlage and experience sexism and the works.

Do any feminists see us as women as I can't see a single cis woman sticking up for us. Perhaps because we're statistically outnumbered. Honestly it's just making me question my validation as a woman. I don't want to screw anyone over I just want to fix my mind and body without abuse.

It makes me almost ashamed to want to be me. I no not everyone is like this I just don't understand.

Im even questioning wether we are women, biologically or mentally. I'm really struggling with this.

[MeTony]

Can I be feminist and a guy? Then I validate you. Some guys in Sweden say they are feminists. Guess you can if you label yourself as such. But behaving like most of them do is just plain stupid. I know it's a patriarch world we live in, but gaining status or money etc while stepping on other groups of people who really need support is so....so...(bad language).


Thinking about it. I guess I don't want anything to do with them. Maybe I can't classify as feminist. More of a humanist.

I would not hunt for validation from that group of people, while they are in a group. One person can be changed, if the group is not there to master her. But it is hard. It's like trying to change someones religion.

No matter what. You're a woman in my eyes.


Tony

[TsukiCat]

Thanks Tony. Personally I have never seen myself as a feminist either because I think everyone should just be equal.  I don't care if your black white male female or bloody Papa  Smurf why should any one be treat differently. Ive persoanlly grown up with women and no one ever trear me dkfferently because i was born male, why should they. I never treat them different because there not. Theres no difference between us we are equal! Off topic but humans infuriate me that's why the only corner I tend to fight is animal rights.

It's just something that's really bothering me and I think it's hard to gauge how many people are for us as we are outnumbered.

[Doreen]

Hi yall, my response will probably be biased here but I tried signing up to a feminist forum to ask but it's practically impossible to sign up to them! What's that about. Basically I'm seeing a lot of feminist shoot transwoman down as men with male privlage pretending to be women. They constantly misgender us and also is off. I don't understand this, why do people have to be like this. I don't understand as women have been segmented in society now cis women are segmenting trans. We lose male privlage and experience sexism and the works.

Do any feminists see us as women as I can't see a single cis woman sticking up for us. Perhaps because we're statistically outnumbered. Honestly it's just making me question my validation as a woman. I don't want to screw anyone over I just want to fix my mind and body without abuse.

It makes me almost ashamed to want to be me. I no not everyone is like this I just don't understand.

Im even questioning wether we are women, biologically or mentally. I'm really struggling with this.

For me its simple.   I present as a woman.  Does everyone need to know my birth status?  Some would argue sure. I would argue its none of their damn business.  Some love waving flags, not me.

Then again I was born both anyways.. and would STILL lose to some of the feminists.  Haters will be haters no matter what flags they wave.  Hate is wrong, no matter who does it.  Feminists or none feminists.

That being said, I never have experienced that reaction... then again I've never really come 'out' to them either.
**Shrugs** To each their own

[Devlyn]

When I changed my gender marker on my identity documents I told the bosses wife I was now legally female. She hugged me and said "Welcome to the sisterhood, Devlyn." 

Some people get it, some people don't. Who you hang out and associate with is your choice. 

[KathyLauren]

I am a feminist, always have been, even when I thought I was male.  I hang out with women when I have a choice, and I am accepted by them.  Accepted as what exactly, I don't know, and I don't ask.  I'll take "accepted".  They treat me as a woman, and I am good with that.

Although I am a feminist, I choose to avoid feminist groups for the reason you described.  Not all women are like that, and not even all feminists.  There is a subset of feminists called TERFs: Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists.  They hate our guts.  The trouble is that you don't know when joining a group how many of them are TERFs.  They might be a small minority in some groups, or a majority in others.

I am sorry you had to find out about them the hard way.

[annaleaver]

I would like to class myself as a feminist in the literal sense of the word, being dedicated to equality across all genders.

There are unfortunately segments of the feminist movement that do take issue with transgendered individuals...the fact we have the acronym TERF is a testament to that...

Understanding the history of feminism and the individuals that spoke out to eradicate divisions of class and race that did exist in earlier movements, while fighting for gender equality is as important today as it was when Bell Hooks/Audre Lorde etc. acknowledged similar problems.

Lastly, painting an entire movement that has helped all women today attain a level of freedom that would have been unimaginable only 50 years ago with sweeping statements such as "a lot of feminists", "do any feminists", is unfair, when a lot of feminists have given a lot to the transgender community.

[Lucca]

I find it funny that some feminists will berate men/people they perceive as being men for their alleged male privilege, but when those same people give up their masculinity to live as women, that's not ok either. Frankly, it just isn't fair for them to pick someone out and tell them "you have to stay in this little box where we can henpeck you all we want, and you're not allowed leave it under any circumstances." There's no way to win.

Speaking as someone who has a rather strained relationship with feminism as a man and who will likely continue to have a strained relationship with it as a woman, I say don't let anyone dictate how you live your life. You shouldn't be restricted just because other people have decided that their own self worth is determined by what you do, and they want you to be unhappy solely for their sake. You be whatever you want to be and do whatever you want to do and look however you want to look. Good people will respect that, and anyone who doesn't isn't worth your time.

[randim]

Depends on the feminist.  There use to be a womyn's music festival in Michigan that excluded transwomen.  The founder had this to say about it:

"The Festival, for a single precious week, is intended for womyn who at birth were deemed female, who were raised as girls, and who identify as womyn. I believe that womyn-born womyn (WBW) is a lived experience that constitutes its own distinct gender identity."

although.....  One speculates that the percentage of females identifying as womyn may not that high!

[Karen_A]

Depends on the feminist.  There use to be a womyn's music festival in Michigan that excluded transwomen. 

In name only... there were ALWAYS some there ... and I have run into more than one that actually performed there (though they were stealth).

- karen

[Janes Groove]

When I changed my gender marker on my identity documents I told the bosses wife I was now legally female. She hugged me and said "Welcome to the sisterhood, Devlyn."

Aww. That is so sweet. Nice story.

[Ryuichi13]

Honestly, I don't see much difference between TERFs and nazis.

The only difference is that many nazis tend to not wear pant suits.

Ryuichi

[Devlyn]

Aww. That is so sweet. Nice story.

Thank you! It's one of the most positive moments I've experienced on this path. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[Lucca]

Here's a different question; besides excluding transwomen, why was there a festival that excluded men? If there was a men's only festival, these "womyn" would have a riot.

The fact that transwomen attended anyway and no one noticed tells you all you need to know about how much sense discriminating against someone based on a cursory superficial examination makes.

[SadieBlake]

Please let's not single out feminism/feminists generally. The number of feminists who are anti-trans are small and dwindling.

For my part, I've been accepted by all the feminists I've known along the way, both as female and as a person.

Particular case in point, just this week I was asked to be the facilitator at an upcoming queer women's group held at the longest operating community women's space in the US (been in place for 50 years).

[Ryuichi13]

Here's a different question; besides excluding transwomen, why was there a festival that excluded men? If there was a men's only festival, these "womyn" would have a riot.

The fact that transwomen attended anyway and no one noticed tells you all you need to know about how much sense discriminating against someone based on a cursory superficial examination makes.

VERY valid points.  I wonder if a transman would have been welcome at one, since technically we're born AFAB.  I"m willing to bet that there were plenty of transwomen that went to these "womyn"-only events.

Exclusionary tactics like theirs truly are stupid. 

Ryuichi 

[TsukiCat]

Sorry it wasn't my intention to single anyone out at all, it was just th is and one other particular group (take a guess) who I had seen assaulting trans people. I don't hate feminists at all, I think everyone's equal and always have. I do see a lot of people that makes me wonder though if there just trying to put men in there position 50 years ago and while I see this as a desire to some  I don't see any progression in just flipping the coin. I didn't mean every feminist of course it was just I was struggling to see any feminists online who were for trans people and it made me wonder if in general we wernet accepted. Obviously, some people just aren't as vocal as some  others.

Like stated above I was raised by solely women and the men in my life were mostly *****. I feel a little bad that this came across as a singling out thing. Sorry.

I had heard TERF before and didn't know what it means and now it makes more sense. Surely these people are giving feminists a bad name? I'm assuming that TERFs are generally more vocal about the Trans thing and that's why the hate in the feminist community seems to lean more to it, because they are more open about hunting down and given there opinion? Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

I suppose if be a great example of this as ice seen there slander so much that I just assumed feminists in general wernet accepting of transwoman.

(The only reason I wouldn't consider myself a feminist is solely because I this everyone should be equal, I'm not vocal about this as I don't tend to debate things but it's just common sense that no one should be treat like dirt. I actually know the feeling coming from a poor background and how some upper class people have looked at me in the past)

Once again, I really meant no offence.

[Ryuichi13]

Sorry it wasn't my intention to single anyone out at all, it was just th is and one other particular group (take a guess) who I had seen assaulting trans people. I don't hate feminists at all, I think everyone's equal and always have. I do see a lot of people that makes me wonder though if there just trying to put men in there position 50 years ago and while I see this as a desire to some  I don't see any progression in just flipping the coin. I didn't mean every feminist of course it was just I was struggling to see any feminists online who were for trans people and it made me wonder if in general we wernet accepted. Obviously, some people just aren't as vocal as some  others.

Like stated above I was raised by solely women and the men in my life were mostly *****. I feel a little bad that this came across as a singling out thing. Sorry.

I had heard TERF before and didn't know what it means and now it makes more sense. Surely these people are giving feminists a bad name? I'm assuming that TERFs are generally more vocal about the Trans thing and that's why the hate in the feminist community seems to lean more to it, because they are more open about hunting down and given there opinion? Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

Once again, I really meant no offence.

Oh, I'm sure that there are plenty of wonderful, loving, any-and-all-women-affirming feminists out there.  Its just the TERFs who I have a problem with. 

A woman is a woman, period.  It doesn't matter if she's born that way or comes to that realization later in life.  Just like a man is a man, whether born or realizing it later in life.  I don't really want to punch a nazi nor a TERF, but sometimes the fingers override the thought processes.  oops.

Why can't we all just get along?  - Rodney King

Ryuichi

[SadieBlake]

Tsuki, I think it's fair to say that second wave feminism had a broad streak of anti-trans sentiment and exclusion wasn't uncommon. I experienced it with a sister who rejected and attacked me which wasn't something I'd expected at all of a supposedly lesbian-leaning feminist. Fortunately I had friends then who understood where it came from and helped me understand.

Movement's are never all right or all wrong and growing pains, indeed mistakes are inevitable. The women's movement of the '70-80s had some very real reasons to mistrust men and want female-exclusive spaces. Hell I like female-exclusive spaces today, I'm just a little more open about who I consider to be female and again, having been around in those years, I don't bear that history any grudges. Water under the bridge and all.

[Devlyn]

Sorry it wasn't my intention to single anyone out at all, it was just th is and one other particular group (take a guess) who I had seen assaulting trans people. I don't hate feminists at all, I think everyone's equal and always have. I do see a lot of people that makes me wonder though if there just trying to put men in there position 50 years ago and while I see this as a desire to some  I don't see any progression in just flipping the coin. I didn't mean every feminist of course it was just I was struggling to see any feminists online who were for trans people and it made me wonder if in general we wernet accepted. Obviously, some people just aren't as vocal as some  others.

Like stated above I was raised by solely women and the men in my life were mostly *****. I feel a little bad that this came across as a singling out thing. Sorry.

I had heard TERF before and didn't know what it means and now it makes more sense. Surely these people are giving feminists a bad name? I'm assuming that TERFs are generally more vocal about the Trans thing and that's why the hate in the feminist community seems to lean more to it, because they are more open about hunting down and given there opinion? Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

I suppose if be a great example of this as ice seen there slander so much that I just assumed feminists in general wernet accepting of transwoman.

(The only reason I wouldn't consider myself a feminist is solely because I this everyone should be equal, I'm not vocal about this as I don't tend to debate things but it's just common sense that no one should be treat like dirt. I actually know the feeling coming from a poor background and how some upper class people have looked at me in the past)

Once again, I really meant no offence.

pfffft....you can see trans people assaulting trans people right here on this site with startling regularity. I  find that a bigger issue than cisgender people doing it.


* edited cisgemder to cisgender. Devlyn