How do you know when "passing" happens?

[krobinson103]

Michelle Duff said it best.One day she had to do an errand on the other side of town, it was only when she got home she realised there were no rude remarks or pointing etc

^ This

One day you go to shop and realize no one looks at you funny... you just blend in. It feels really odd after being looked at all the time.

[Virginia]

When she saw me, she started going on about "how handsome!"

Even this can be explained within the bounds of reason. It was common to call a women "handsome" in the the early 1900's, so the older woman may have been paying you a compliment. Also a common side effect of stroke is using antonym of the word you intend. My Mother always referred to the woman in the bed next to her as a "man." Similarly she called called my father her "son" and said "day" when she meant hour. A bit confusing at first but she was consistent so once I realized what was going on we communicated just fine.

[Allison S]

Wow! This is my best thread yet because I see positivity...for once lol
Thanks everyone for your responses. It means a lot to a new gal like me...

I don't really know if I pass as a cis women. Part of me just wants the next few days to pass and for my family, well mostly my sister, to not hate me for not attending a baptism. It's a very important day, yes. But my family has to understand that I just made a year on hrt and if I can't go as myself, as female, then I won't at all.

I've just about thrown out all my male clothing and I'm not buying anymore. There's no way. My mom is the worst she expects me to go by what she wants and insists I'll do what she says (or dress how she wants me to) and that I'll go. My mom is just angry because she knows if I don't go (thus, making a fool out of myself in turn. It's clear I don't look like I did last year), then it'll make her look bad. I intend to only see these people when I want and on my terms.

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[Northern Star Girl]

Wow! This is my best thread yet because I see positivity...for once lol
Thanks everyone for your responses. It means a lot to a new gal like me...

I don't really know if I pass as a cis women. Part of me just wants the next few days to pass and for my family, well mostly my sister, to not hate me for not attending a baptism. It's a very important day, yes. But my family has to understand that I just made a year on hrt and if I can't go as myself, as female, then I won't at all.

I've just about thrown out all my male clothing and I'm not buying anymore. There's no way. My mom is the worst she expects me to go by what she wants and insists I'll do what she says (or dress how she wants me to) and that I'll go. My mom is just angry because she knows if I don't go (thus, making a fool out of my own self. It's clear I don't look like I did last year), then it'll make her look bad. I intend to only see these people when I want and on my terms.

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@Allison S
Dear Allison:
Thank you.... your comment is a very good response to this conversation on your thread.   
Yes indeed you do not look the same as you once did, a full year of HRT has made that happen... 
.... and to prevent issues for your mom and family... and yourself, you certainly have to do what you have to do.

Please, if you feel so led, let us all know what happens with all of this.

We are all rooting for you, we are your biggest fans.
Hugs,
Danielle

[ChrissyRyan]

Wow! This is my best thread yet because I see positivity...for once lol
Thanks everyone for your responses. It means a lot to a new gal like me...

I don't really know if I pass as a cis women. Part of me just wants the next few days to pass and for my family, well mostly my sister, to not hate me for not attending a baptism. It's a very important day, yes. But my family has to understand that I just made a year on hrt and if I can't go as myself, as female, then I won't at all.

I've just about thrown out all my male clothing and I'm not buying anymore. There's no way. My mom is the worst she expects me to go by what she wants and insists I'll do what she says (or dress how she wants me to) and that I'll go. My mom is just angry because she knows if I don't go (thus, making a fool out of myself in turn. It's clear I don't look like I did last year), then it'll make her look bad. I intend to only see these people when I want and on my terms.

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Allison,

There will always be tough decisions to make in life, and many people want to try to please their parents when possible, because, in reality, many are grateful and appreciative for what their parents, overall, have done for them.

In your case you have transitioned and you are now Allison.  In your shoes, I would want to be accepted as Allison.  I understand your position completely.   I would want to attend as Allison.

In regards to passing, there have been a number of insightful comments posted in this thread by thoughtful people.  I could mention some writers' names, but then I may leave some out when I should not.  Certainly two are Ryuichi13 and Danielle.

I think there comes a point where you will become comfortable with how you believe that you are typically perceived, and if not, perhaps take reasonable and positive further steps that you think will be helpful, or, you will just say, "fooey with them!"  There will always be some unkind people, unfortunately, no matter what. 

Many of us will not ever achieve the outward beauty possessed by many of the women here, such as Julia, Danielle, Ellie, and many others... (I probably should not have listed any names, as leaving some out is problematic, and I do realize that some of those names are used here in part by multiple people, and perhaps it was indeed wise that I did not use their "user names.")  But... we each can make the most of what we do have.  There is much more to a person than looks, and passing does involve more than looks too.

I too am rooting for you!

Chrissy

[IAmM]

Family, friends and those that knew us before certainly have a harder time, probably best not to go by them. Don't let it discombobulate you. It is a process, one day even the people that know you were not born a girl will laugh at the notion, it's hard to feel like a guy after that. It is not so retroactive for those that knew us before however. I never learned how to deal with that and luckily enough for me my connections were not so strong. When everyone treats you only like your gender for so long that you forget what it is like to be misgendered, you will know. Truth is you will "pass" long before that, it takes a bit to settle in. Breathe in, breathe out, everything begins in uncertainty and yet eventually the certainty of experience is so deeply imbedded that you will have a hard time remembering the uncertainty. Even if someone happens to misgender you.

[Allison S]

Allison,

There will always be tough decisions to make in life, and many people want to try to please their parents when possible, because, in reality, many are grateful and appreciative for what their parents, overall, have done for them.

In your case you have transitioned and you are now Allison.  In your shoes, I would want to be accepted as Allison.  I understand your position completely.   I would want to attend as Allison.

In regards to passing, there have been a number of insightful comments posted in this thread by thoughtful people.  I could mention some writers' names, but then I may leave some out when I should not.  Certainly two are Ryuichi13 and Danielle.

I think there comes a point where you will become comfortable with how you believe that you are typically perceived, and if not, perhaps take reasonable and positive further steps that you think will be helpful, or, you will just say, "fooey with them!"  There will always be some unkind people, unfortunately, no matter what. 

Many of us will not ever achieve the outward beauty possessed by many of the women here, such as Julia, Danielle, Ellie, and many others... (I probably should not have listed any names, as leaving some out is problematic, and I do realize that some of those names are used here in part by multiple people, and perhaps it was indeed wise that I did not use their "user names.")  But... we each can make the most of what we do have.  There is much more to a person than looks, and passing does involve more than looks too.

I too am rooting for you!

Chrissy

Thank you for the encouragment. But I don't understand what looks has to do with my topic. Thanks for sharing who the people you like are... Yes, there are many beautiful women on this forum.

Family, friends and those that knew us before certainly have a harder time, probably best not to go by them. Don't let it discombobulate you. It is a process, one day even the people that know you were not born a girl will laugh at the notion, it's hard to feel like a guy after that. It is not so retroactive for those that knew us before however. I never learned how to deal with that and luckily enough for me my connections were not so strong. When everyone treats you only like your gender for so long that you forget what it is like to be misgendered, you will know. Truth is you will "pass" long before that, it takes a bit to settle in. Breathe in, breathe out, everything begins in uncertainty and yet eventually the certainty of experience is so deeply imbedded that you will have a hard time remembering the uncertainty. Even if someone happens to misgender you.

What do you mean it wasn't as "retroactive for those who know us before"? Everything you said is true and helpful. I'm a bit down on myself lately for seeking the approval from strangers in such a weird way. But I do recognize that it happens daily to everyone. It's just that my mom and family are the closest to me in my life. It's been a difficult process for me and I have no friends from before my transition... I just haven't been able to keep up with anyone. It's a bit sad and lonely because I'm used to have friends and knowing them for many years.

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[ChrissyRyan]

Allison,

I have been reading your posts this year and I know that you have run into many hurtful or unkind experiences and definitely think those peope involved should apologize and realize what they said or did was totally unacceptable.  In terms of passing, looks are just one part, perhaps the total female presentation is likely the better word.  Going deeper, acceptance is at the core.  An "I will always love you but I cannot accept who you now are" is not what is desired.

Yes, there are many here that are beautiful, outside and inside, like you, Laurie, Michele, Kelly, and others.  Making a list can only make who you left out stand out so I rarely make any mention of it.  What their thoughts are are far more important than their looks regardless.

We have some very kind and thoughtful people here.  We are lucky to have them all.
I am not all that good with putting the right words together at all times, so I do not post that much.  Some people can express their deep, heartfelt thoughts so well, it is a gift.

Chrissy

[Brooke]

A few signs that haven't been mentioned include other women openly talking about their menstrual cycle.

-Several conversations with coworkers where this came up in a conversation about chronic health issues- the quick glance around looking for men and then a whispered conversation.

Strangers and people new to your social circle using female pronouns and assumptions about your past

-My manager at work telling me about difference between my thought process and his in terms of gender norms when growing up.

Physicians asking when your last menstrual cycle was. 

-Happens on nearly half of my office visits, even with established providers who I have previously and sometimes repeatedly told I'm transgender

People asking if you have any or planning on having kids.

- Most recently this happened in my preop appointment for tummy tuck and Breast Augmentation. At this point I was in nothing more than my underwear while he was taking measurements. I'm also pre GCS. When I reminded him no kids future or past because I'm transgender his response was "oh yeah, that's right I forgot".

[IAmM]

What do you mean it wasn't as "retroactive for those who know us before"? Everything you said is true and helpful. I'm a bit down on myself lately for seeking the approval from strangers in such a weird way. But I do recognize that it happens daily to everyone. It's just that my mom and family are the closest to me in my life. It's been a difficult process for me and I have no friends from before my transition... I just haven't been able to keep up with anyone. It's a bit sad and lonely because I'm used to have friends and knowing them for many years.

My friends know that I am trans, I prefer not to hide that from the people who are close to me. Most of them I have met since transitioning, my best friend I have known forever but she has always know that I had no interest in girls even though I have never dated men either, hard to keep something like that from a roommate of fifteen years. They don't grasp that I was a guy very well, probably once a month I have to remind one of them that I didn't grow up as a girl. Sometimes it is inconvenient, like being out with a few of them and we go to the bathroom after a couple drinks, the one asks quite loudly from the stall beside me how heavy my periods are now that I am nearing 50 and do I get them every month. Not so bad right? I wish. After it sinks in and she realized her error alcohol compels her to say just as loud that she couldn't imagine me as a guy. She apologized after and there was no harm done, they all have those moments just usually not so public. They know me as a girl and even my best friend that knew me as a guy for 20 years they all at times forget that I haven't always been a girl. For the people that I know now, even though most know that I am trans, my girlhood is retroactive. My family is the exact opposite, they see only the past. It's annoying and satisfying when my brother calls me he and his new wife automatically corrects him, then when he apologizes she says that she doesn't understand how he can look at me and call me he. Kind of a yay, and darn moment all at once. I think that your family will adjust and I understand you not wanting to compromise in the meantime. I can't even imagine trying to go as a guy and my heart goes out to all the girls and guys here that have to live that dual life. Friends will come along if you want them, it seems to be not so easy as we get older and after transition it is even harder I think to hold on to our friends and we have to find new ones. Always the same answer, these things take time. Not something anyone wants to hear right?

You will be okay. 🙂 Just hard to see that sometimes.

[alyssalove2790]

Judging from your avatar photo, I think you are very passing! Physically at least! 

Most of my female friends that know I'm MtF trans think I pass 100%, even admitting being stunned at how much more beautiful I look when I dress my gender rather than my gender at birth. Even joking being jealous of my body! 

But I've noticed a different kind of attraction when going out as my gender... notably cis women being much more friendly and open, and cis men being more gentle and careful around me, and I sometime notice some ogling from them! 

In my LGBT group that I'm new in, I've had to ask some what their gender identity were. I was automagically called a woman when I first entered, some even thinking I was a cis woman even after speaking. And when I was on my way to it, a driver (a woman), opened her window to tell me that I'm very chic. It was a magical moment!

[lostinlonging]

People like to look and see if we are like them like who they would like to be living. I am 5 years after being a man and this is a dark time with many days of being upset and feel the world is ending in my life. But this is the magic of time when I an walked in life after many days of people seeing if I an a women that they think something changed in the days of being. I am female and I feel this and be this in my life with other in my life. I am walking with my head but my beautiful heart and the love is being bright for the days of dark. You Must walk with love and the beauty with light you for all to see.

Dank

[barbie]

Little stuff like eye contact from women, the personal space women around you need shrinks  to a very small distance indeed. 

Yes. In public buses or train, young ladies sit next to me without hesitation, sometimes touching my shoulders or hips. They do not avoid my eyes. Some strange old women grasp my hands in the street while asking their way.

An interesting thing is that even my female friends, who know very well about me and my family, touch me so easily as they do to their female friends. They seem to treat me as a woman, even though they know I am a dad. One of my old female friends once came into my hotel room, sleeping next to me, without any sexual intent.

barbie~~

[kgreen]

I don't mind either way, I'm just curious at what point do you realize you're "passing"?

When I started HRT, I also started dressing in women's khakis and polo shirts. Same idea as my male attire, just women's versions. I figured people would see me dressed appropriately for whatever gender they assumed I was. I took the HRT, and waited and hoped.

There came a day when we were at the oral surgeon's office to have my tooth pulled, and the receptionist called out the names of patients to see if they were there. She called out my male name, I said "here!" and she got visibly annoyed and said "no, I said [male name]."

I was so scared of getting my (first) tooth pulled, I didn't realize what was going on, and went up to the desk whereupon she started arguing with me that I wasn't me and that I couldn't just use someone else's insurance.

My wife had to come up and intercede, explaining the misunderstanding to both of us, lol.

That was my turning point. On the way home we decided to file the documents to initiate the name change

[DawnOday]

When you no longer care what people say or think about you and you accept who you are. How do you expect others to accept you, if you don't accept yourself. When I look in the mirror I see a beautiful person that has been hiding out most of their life.  If I could start over again, fear would never be a factor. When you have confidence in yourself than you will pass.

[Northern Star Girl]

When you no longer care what people say or think about you and you accept who you are. How do you expect others to accept you, if you don't accept yourself. When I look in the mirror I see a beautiful person that has been hiding out most of their life.  If I could start over again, fear would never be a factor. When you have confidence in yourself than you will pass.

@DawnOday
Dear Dawn:  Your reply comment is very well said and your wise advice is something that all transitioners should do but fear and lack of confidence in the early stages of transition before coming out can be a most difficult thing to overcome.
When looking back at those early times and now knowing how it all worked out, it is easier to say that we would have not of let fear and lack of confidence affect us back then, but the mind can be a storehouse of doubt and fear.

The key point that you made is right on:
"When you no longer care what people say or think about you and you accept who you are. How do you expect others to accept you, if you don't accept yourself."

Thanks for sharing your wisdom...
Hugs,
Danielle

[Julie -2010]

Passing is really up to the person.  Just from this thread I think you see different opinions that each of us may have.  I think I blend very well but passing is something I think I resigned myself to maybe some day.  Yes most people treat me very well and it does help my self confidence.  Back 10-15 years ago people would laugh at me and I got the name calling and snickering. I so glad society has changed some since those days.

Like someone said already, most people don't pay much attention. This is where I think I can blend in but once they start paying attention I'm not passing.  I get certain looks that they did read me or the look that they are trying to decide since they think something is off.  I would bet that most of us can walk thru a pretty public place and we would "pass" and again because people have other things on their minds and don't pay attention.

Right now, it does feel great when you get gendered correctly.  I have two great memories.  I was checking into my Dr. for my appt and handed the reception person my medical card with my male name.  She looks up and says, No I need your card. That was great, made my day.

I was in Vegas in one of the hotel convenience stores getting a pop and I used my credit card with my feminine name on it.  Well in vegas a lot of places want to see an ID with the CC.  I showed my license with my male name.  The clerk looks up and said, Oh you gave me your husband's ID, I need yours.  I loved when that happen.

Julie

[Virginia]

Hi there I'm off on a night out what do you think of my top and how dose it look on me and how do my boobs look
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What do you think of my new top dose it do me justice? Getting ready for a night out on the town do my boobs look OK ?
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The top is perfect for a night out! I am thinking either you need a larger size or you are wearing it a bit too low- maybe both? It looks like the cups are squishing the middle of your breasts, and the lower edge of the ruched portion should be even with the bottom of your boobs so the boobs fill the cups. Perhaps you would get more response if you posted this in its own thread?

[Devlyn]

...Perhaps you would get more response if you posted this in its own thread?

I guess I'm not the only one who thought "Gee, that's rather inappropriate for this thread" 

[gemma1977]

Oh OK all new to this

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