For a mtf woman, when is transitioning “over”? Are we always transgender?

[KimOct]

I am stating this opinion merely as an observer.  Having not been born intersex I have not had that journey which I assume is challenging.

You're either trans or cis. Which is it? You have to face reality.

My disclaimer stated, it would seem to me that someone is trans if they do not identify with the gender that they were assigned at birth.  And if they identify as anything along the gender spectrum such as NB or gender fluid or androgynous etc I would still think that is being transgender because you don't identify with the gender assigned at birth. 

If you identify as the gender you are assigned at birth you are cis.  Anything else to me would be somewhere on the transgender spectrum.

[Linde]

I am stating this opinion merely as an observer.  Having not been born intersex I have not had that journey which I assume is challenging.

My disclaimer stated, it would seem to me that someone is trans if they do not identify with the gender that they were assigned at birth.  And if they identify as anything along the gender spectrum such as NB or gender fluid or androgynous etc I would still think that is being transgender because you don't identify with the gender assigned at birth. 

If you identify as the gender you are assigned at birth you are cis.  Anything else to me would be somewhere on the transgender spectrum.

This si the reason that I think, i belong to the trans sector of gender identity.
The way I see it, my biology would have allowed me to be a guy or a girl, but somebody decided with a little quick cutting etc. that i should be a guy.  I never really identified my self strongly with this gender, but I tried to live like one, because hat was expected of me.  This attempt worked OK for many years, until the bubble burst, and i could not play the guy roll anymore.  For several years I was gender neutral, just did not care what gender I was or wanted to be.  I did not feel connected to any gender.  Several years ago I started to drift to the female side, and I became gender fluid, I could switch like nothing between each gender. 
Now I am at the point that I feel like reclaiming my original body.  It is not the way the normal trans women seem to feel, I still don't have real gender identity, and I still can switch pretty easy between the gender (most of the morning I was presenting as a male, most of the afternoon as a female, I do not have any dysphoria doing so).
I think that the switching between gender will be harder the more my female features develop.  Once I had surgery, I do not really want to be male again, because that means I am back in my original body.

Evan though it is not a standard transition, I think I am still trans because I do some kind of body switching (at least concerning my genitals).

[Stephanie Vaughan]

This is a huge question and one that will be different from one of us to another. For me I have always been female in my mind but firstly didn't have the courage to do anything about it, just settled for cross dressing in private. At the age of 54 I discovered I had been born intersex and modified at birth, a small point which my parents neglected to share with me which will always upset and sadden me. Thankfully my partner, who knew most of my story said she would support me and I transitioned in 2016/2017.
Even though I had always thought of myself as female I played the part of a male because that was what was expected of me. Thankfully I never had children of my own as I felt I couldn't risk bringing another human being into the world as messed up as me.
I guess for me I only thought of myself as transgender during the period of making the decision, getting the go ahead (thankfully I was fast tracked through the system and was given the go ahead to book my surgery after only three months) and having the surgery. Once I had done that I didn't and don't feel transgender I just think of myself and feel female. I am lucky in that passing was never a problem, having had gynecomastia since I was thirteen which I now know was due to the intersex beginnings, I certainly didn't need any enhancement in the breast department which I'm sure helps. I've also had incredibly good support locally, never been misgendered and had the best medical support imaginable. One friend asked me if I was going to move to the city so no one would know me unlike the country town I live in as though I might be ashamed of what I was doing. In reply I told her I was incredibly proud of who I am and what I was doing and certainly wouldn't be moving and it's never been brought up again.
Walking down the Main Street of our town in a dress and heels gives me the biggest buzz ever, I look around me and know I look much more feminine than many of the cis gender women I pass. As I say, I know I am lucky but I've worked hard on my looks and body language, my only let down is my broad Yorkshire accent which is not surprising since I spent the first 45 years of my life there before emigrating here to Australia 12 years ago.
So in answer to the main question, I am definitely female even though I feel I also have the best of both worlds as I am physically as strong as most men my age, fit and agile which certainly has helped my recovery from two lots of surgery.
In the words of Robbie Williams, I love my life! It's just a pity it took me so long to get here!

Stephanie xx


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[KathyLauren]

If a person would prefer to be addressed with thy, it is their thing, but I would like to understand why they want this, because like I, they present still as a single individual, and not as several persons!
It is not that I would not respect their wish, but because of an almost academic interests, I would like to know why they have this wish?

I understand that English is not your first language, and I think this peculiarity of the English language is causing your confusion.

In this usage of the pronoun "they" by non-binary people, the word is not plural.  It is singular, and even the Oxford English Dictionary recognizes this.  https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

In English, the neuter pronoun "it" is never acceptable for a human being.  Since there are no other alternatives that do not involve gender, the only available gender-neutral alternative is "they".  As the article notes, the use of "they" in the singular has a long history, traditionally used when referring to a single person of unknown gender.  Its use for a non-binary person is relatively new, but for most English-speakers, it is the preferable pronoun for someone who does not wish to be referred to by a gendered pronoun.

[JanePlain]

Based on experiences of one friend and a few famous folks I think they regard themselves as having trans-gendered through HRT, SRS etc.   My friend went through the process and packed up, moved to another state (For a while) and just lived being female.  The previous history?  Only relevant to people she was considering getting intimate with.  The stigma or complete bull ->-bleeped-<- of having to explain this to everyone and take loads of uninformed moronic hate?  I can see where you set your sites on the goal and don't want to get hip deep in the process.  Or arguments about it.

So one more unpopular (2 cents worth) on there being an ed to transgender.  As in having transgendered.   

I am going to buck the trend here and be unpopular.

Medically, genetically, we will always be "transgender".

However, we need the healthcare directed towards our end state gender. Our health issues align with the cis gender. As a trans woman, my risk of breast cancer increased, my risk of aneurysm decreased and my risk of prostate cancer decreased. For example.

Trans, by definition means to change.

So if I identify as a female, live as a female, socialize as a female, and in every way, am a female. Why would I still consider myself "trans". I just happen to have been born with a different body. I do not identify as a trans-woman. I identify as a woman. The further along in transition I get, the less I identify personally with the term trans.

When a caterpillar emerges from her cocoon, she is a butterfly. She is not a caterpillar with wings. She transitioned from one state to another, and the transitory phase completed. She is a butterfly.

Just my 2c.

[JanePlain]

One additional thought.   If you are born male and have an orchiectomy are you a "man"?  I think quite a few people (trans haters in particular) would say you were not.  So...  If you can have your testicles removed and go from man to eunuch why is it such a stretch to take it further and do HRT which clearly rewires the brain from male to female and using surgery return the penis to the Vaginal state?  I'm not saying this well but hopefully you all get the gist.

The people screaming about the impossibility of changing yourself sexually with hormones should (I think) try cross gender therapy for a few months and THEN make their loud rants about the topic they have no personal experience with.

[Lisa89125]

One additional thought.   If you are born male and have an orchiectomy are you a "man"?  I think quite a few people (trans haters in particular) would say you were not.  So...  If you can have your testicles removed and go from man to eunuch why is it such a stretch to take it further and do HRT which clearly rewires the brain from male to female and using surgery return the penis to the Vaginal state?  I'm not saying this well but hopefully you all get the gist.

The people screaming about the impossibility of changing yourself sexually with hormones should (I think) try cross gender therapy for a few months and THEN make their loud rants about the topic they have no personal experience with.

I've often thought the same thing. Let them experience HRT for 3 or 4 months and then get back to us on what and how they feel. I don't think they will have much more to rant on about.

Although I suppose if the hater is a cis female more estrogen won't have any effect on their brain.

Lisa

[JanePlain]

Yes it seems like TS folks have a wide variety of haters.   Probably my main reason to be having such a difficult time dealing with this.  SIGH....   

I suppose we should be happy that being TS is no longer considered a mental illness and that there are doctors and therapists that are more understanding.  It doesn't seem that long ago that this was all beyond the pale.

I've often thought the same thing. Let them experience HRT for 3 or 4 months and then get back to us on what and how they feel. I don't think they will have much more to rant on about.

Although I suppose if the hater is a cis female more estrogen won't have any effect on their brain.

Lisa

[Meghan]

In my last appointment with my Endocrine we talked about my sexuality and he asked do I prefer to be with man or woman.  I told him that though never cross my mind since I just concentrate on my transition only

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[Nightfall]

No one can unmake this, we are what we are. It doesn't have to be good or bad but that we or the world makes it so. No, it will never go away.

I personally think that transition is over when you reach you. When you finally need nothing left to define you and you are all that's left, transitioning is over.

[CynthiaAnn]

This was interesting thread to read this morning.

  I will just say my female assimilation path is unique, and will never be the classic story of the young transwoman that starts her life anew. I have relationships that came with me from before, others that have no knowledge of my past, it's a unique blend. I continue to build new relationships as I move further from what I was. Life is a continuum, there is constant change, with most of my physical and social changes done, I can focus on new challenges, new learning, new experiences. I believe in life long learning and improvement, there is much to explore. I am happy and content today, I don't distance myself from "trans", I don't fear my past, I carry no mental baggage, I accept who I am and am at peace with it. Life is lovely today in my female form, what a blessing....

Cynthia -

[Julia1996]

I considered transition over after I had GRS. I will always be trans, the fact I can never have a child will always remind me of that fact. But I consider my transition over.

[pamelamoore2706]

For a mtf woman, when is transitioning "over"?  When we assimilate into society and live as a woman?

Even after transitioning is over, are we always transgender (mtf) women?  After all, after a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly, it is known simply as a butterfly.  We are not of the male gender, we are of the female gender.  Many of our bodies may, externally at least, correspond with our female gender.

Are we ever simply accepted as women, and not as transwomen, as if we were born female?

If yes, does that require passing so well that people not knowing of your past have never thought of you as a transwoman but just one of many women?  Or does acceptance by others simply require kind, tolerant, understanding people even if we do not pass well?  That they respect our wishes to be accepted as women because we are women, that they not deadname us, that they use our preferred pronouns, and that they treat us fairly and like ladies?

How much and what transitioning do we need to have completed until it is reasonable for each of us to be thought of by others as a woman?

What do you think?

Chrissy

Hi Chrissy,
An excellent question and I suspect many differing views will exist.
For me transition is a personal journey, different for everyone. I identify female not trans (I got a form from the NHS only last week which had a question on that (gender identity) to which I answered female).
Transition remains an ongoing process but identity for me is clear. It's not defined by how others react to me though i'm more chilled when I do pass, of course.

Hope that helps.
Pammie. X


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[Linde]

I considered transition over after I had GRS. I will always be trans, the fact I can never have a child will always remind me of that fact. But I consider my transition over.

I now many cis women, who cannot have a child.  Either because their biology is not set for it, or they had an hysterectomy.
I don't think that having your biological child makes you more or less of a woman!
One cis woman, who is a close friend of mine, cannot have children, but she does not feel less cis than any other woman I know!  They have adopted children, and are very happy grandparents now!

[pamelamoore2706]

I now many cis women, who cannot have a child.  Either because their biology is not set for it, or they had an hysterectomy.
I don't think that having your biological child makes you more or less of a woman!
One cis woman, who is a close friend of mine, cannot have children, but she does not feel less cis than any other woman I know!  They have adopted children, and are very happy grandparents now!

Exactly. We should try not to constrain our identity in that way if possible. I've not had GRS yet but will do at some point but I still identify female even so.


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[DebbySoufflage]

For me transition will be over when I will have had breast augmentation surgery.

The big steps in my transition were:

1) coming out socially and dressing and presenting as I wanted and felt like.
2) starting hormone replacement therapy ( Estradiol )
3) starting permanent laser hair removal
4) having my name and gender marker updated
5) breast implants. This still needs to be done. Currently saving up for it.

Then my transition will be over.

I pass well and my chromosomes and my underwear content are none of any random strangers' business.

Will I ever be cis? No.
Will I always be trans? Yes.
Will I always be in transition? No.

[Linde]

I really don't know?  i was born mostly female, made into a male, and went back to be a female.  Sometimes i wonder if I can call my situation to be transgender or not?
Once I am fully back into a female again, I will be way closer to a cis female than to a cis male (chromosome wise), but I still will have some male biology inside me.  For most of the time I feel the same like a cis female, kind like a cis female who had an hysterectomy I really don't know.  I think once i had everything done, I will not consider myself to be trans anymore, transition, or some kind of it, was the way how I got to the point at wich I am.

I wonder how other intersex persons feel about this?

[Julia1996]

I now many cis women, who cannot have a child.  Either because their biology is not set for it, or they had an hysterectomy.
I don't think that having your biological child makes you more or less of a woman!
One cis woman, who is a close friend of mine, cannot have children, but she does not feel less cis than any other woman I know!  They have adopted children, and are very happy grandparents now!

I know lots of Cis women can't have kids. But it's the reason I can't have them that bothers me. I think of down the road when Tristan might want kids and I can't give him any. It just depresses me at times. Tristan and I have talked about kids and he said if we want kids down the road he was fine with adopting them. But it just bothers me that I can't give him his own children.

[Linde]

I know lots of Cis women can't have kids. But it's the reason I can't have them that bothers me. I think of down the road when Tristan might want kids and I can't give him any. It just depresses me at times. Tristan and I have talked about kids and he said if we want kids down the road he was fine with adopting them. But it just bothers me that I can't give him his own children.

You can adopt kids and they become his and your own children!    Don't connect your fem-dome with only ovaries and a uterus.  You are way more than these few body parts only.  It is your personality that makes Tristan to be with you, and not a uterus or ovaries.  It is your personality that keeps Tristan with you (and you seem to be a good cook - the Germans say that a mans love goes through his stomach), and not some kids that were produced by some uterus.  Way to many relations fell apart because the couple focused on these bodily functions only!
I know that I have an ovary, and might have a uterus floating around somewhere inside me, but those body pieces do not define me!  My personality does!  My personality will not change if they would find a uterus inside me or not!

The same is true with your personality, you are not less of a person, because you don't have those pieces, and Tristan will not love you any less because of this!
If you adopt infants they will grow into your very own kids, no matter by which uterus they were hatched!

[Aurorasky]

I think this question will really vary depending on you're asking, because people's motivations and life goals are all different even if the process is superficially the same.

I don't consider myself transgender. It's too broad of a term which encompasses lots of definitions, and makes it a bit blurry for me. For me the phenomenon is very specific and the term I would use is transsexual, because it describes my experience accurately. For various reasons which may be attributed to various dimensions, including, but not limited to: social, cultural, biological, etc, I leaned towards the feminine in almost everything, which made living as boy impossible without causing everyone a lot of confusion, perplexity from those around me. I also suffered from body dysphoria. I transitioned because I realized, over time, that given the cards I had been dealt with and body dysphoria I felt over the things that made me (yuck!!!) biologically male, I knew I would live much better as a girl, and later, woman.

Additionally, the fact that not all male secondary sex characteristics developed me for me (such as a low voice, beard, broad shoulders, muscles, etc) due to reasons I never cared to further investigate, that made it even harder for me to fit in the world and know where I belong to. But made it extremely easy for me to make the leap and live as a woman. It was extremely easy to integrate in groups as girl. Suddenly, everything was so smooth. I started voluteering in a orphanage, when I was 18. I showed up (was still not out to everyone), had been on HRT for two months and the first time I entered the orphanage, a girl was walking out of the truck, she worked there, and I asked her if I was at the right place and she referred to me as a girl, and I froze. Will always remember this moment. I wasn't wearing makeup, had short curly hair still and didn't even wear a bra, was with a sweatshirt. But she didn't even hesitate. I then presented myself to everyone as a girl and on that day I was sure I could live as a girl all the time. Before HRT, I already confused people.

What made it harder for me to transition was my parents, who insisited on not accepting and not coming around. They finally did and paid for my SRS on September 2017. I am forever thankful that they did accept. I think having a family who accepts and supports rather than tolerates or hates who you are makes a big difference on how well adjusted you become, after transition. Being passable can obviously be very important. I just wanted to go on with my life and now I rarely think of it.

Transsexual for me is only a medical term. I live as a woman and, therefore, being a woman is a part of my identity just like having dark hair or green eyes is. I don't think of it any other way. Transition is temporary, that's why it's called transition. For me, social transition was over when everyone in my circles either accepted me as girl or only knew me as such (and therefore it became impratical to tell). It's not a term I like to flaunt, and that is my right. Just like someone who has had some kind of cancer (excuse me the analogy) does not have to hold as a badge if they don't want to (but they certainly can if that's their wish). Medical transition was over when all my secondary and primary characteristics aligned with female.

Overall, I couldn't be happier with how my transition went, even if I had a very rough start because of lack of support which made everything 10 times harder, but I wouldn't have lived many adventures, if it had been another way, so there's a good side to everything.

sorry for the wall of text, TDLR: transsexual describes the medical experience better, so I opt for that term but do not use on a daily life basis, so much written to have it sumed up like that lol