Robby's Journey

[Pema]

These are the pieces of your post that really stood out to me:

So I am def struggling with what I think I want in terms of my ideal body goals for transitioning....

So at what point do I either try to fit myself into someone else's idea of what a female should look like or do the exact opposite and push limits of what people think females should be...

And I'm starting to find it all hypocritical....

But isn't the journey more about self love and self acceptance...

...love ourselves and be uniquely ourselves, to not try to live up to someone else's standards or idea of what a man or woman should be...

I completely agree with what Lilis and Lori have already said so eloquently. I'll add that, well, this is the world we live in - there are many different voices trying to tell us how we ought to live our lives, many of them contradictory. And that means it's up to us to do the hard work of finding out who we are, what we want for ourselves, and how to get there from where we are. The thing is, that's how it's always been; it's just that there's a lot more "noise" now to obscure our own internal signal - the one thing we should really be tuning into.

As with anything, even if you follow someone else's recipe, your result will still be uniquely yours. You can just take other people's input as: "Here's what was important to them. Is that important to me?" Think of it more as suggestions of things to consider instead of definitive "musts." Not only do you *get* to figure out for yourself what it means for you to be a woman, you *have* to. Nobody else can do it for you.

I'm in a very similar same place right now. I know I'll never be someone who wears dresses or paints my nails. The women I've always been attracted to were more rugged "tomboys," and that's clearly much more in line with who I am. I'm sure if I'd been born female, a lot of people would have told me I needed to do more to be perceived as more feminine. I'd have told them to go pound sand.

Nobody is in a better position than you to decide what it means for you to be a woman. I encourage you to own that right proudly.

[Robbyv213]

Thanks for all the helpful insights, advice, and thought provocative responses.

[Robbyv213]

So things have been feeling like they are going down hill again.

My wife has been getting extremely aggravated, anxiety and stress running high at all times, having bad dreams. Seems like it has only gotten or gets worse when I try to explore and or express myself in terms of transitioning wants and needs.

A few weeks ago I feel we had a break through conversation and now I feel like that never happened. I feel that I can't share or express anything to my wife on things I want or need (and not just in terms of transitioning) but in life in general. I feel I can't communicate anything without it being turned into a debate or argument.

More recently I feel like I have been getting guilted into not going to the gym, since she knows I'm actively trying to change my appearance through working out, cardio and nutrition.

So typically I'd go to the gym at 3am. Usually wake up at 230 get out of bed and ready as quietly as possible and then head out. I used to kiss her before I left but she wanted me to stop since it would wake her up and she wouldn't be able to get back to sleep. So I've stopped that but now I just text letting her know I made it and when I leave to return home.

It seems like at least 2 or 3 times a week for the last few months I wake up to get ready and she's up, can't sleep.. anxiety is high or had a bad dream what ever the case is I end up not going to help her get back to sleep. And now last night it boiled over.

Last night like clock work she's already up pretty.much waiting for me to stir and wake up, and then bam anxiety emotions and crying. At this point I'm feeling like I'm being emotionally manipulated bc she doesn't want me to transition and or to do anything that moves me down the path.

So I try to help her and console her try to get her to talk and open up etc. And she doesn't. She won't do anything not even acknowledge me trying to help. So i get up and start to get ready.

Ultimately I leave for the gym and my phone blows up with texts about how I am a bad husband for leaving his grieving wife to go to the gym, even after I had expressed that the gym is something I need to do for my health and mental wellness the day before. So I leave and go home and try again to get her to talk about it and console .her and yet again nothing. Saying she just wants to try to get back to sleep and doesn't want to talk about it, and says do what you need to do. So I get up and leave again.

Is this manipulation or am I wrong. This have been going on in all aspects of our relationship for as long as I can remember. Granted I know the memory is funny and can play tricks on you, making things seem one way when they are actually another.

I just feel like I am always giving in and not doing what I need to do for myself while always supporting her when ever she needs or wants to do something for herself.

And of course this leads to a fight and now I'm pretty much the bad guy since I'm bring up all the things I never allow myself to say in the moment. That I'm the manipulative one and emotionally immature one.

Like I'm seriously over it all. Like I'm one more argument away from saying I'm done,.I want a divorce.

Am I wrong, is my ego in the way and what I feel and my perception of things not how it really is?

I love her and I know she loves me, but I just feel that we are not good for one another and never have been, it's just more apparent now.

[Lilis]

Robin,

It sounds like you're navigating an incredibly intense emotional landscape in a relationship where many of your core needs are going unmet.

From what you've shared, emotional manipulation does seem to be present, though not necessarily with malicious intent. It may be coming from emotional immaturity, fear, or unresolved issues on your wife's part.

There's clearly a lot going on between you both, and if you're unable to find common ground or a path toward compromise, couples counseling might be a helpful step.

I wish I could offer more, but I'm not qualified to give clinical advice.

Still, I encourage you to seek professional guidance to help you both sort through the emotional layers at play.

You might also consider inviting her to these SO forums if you feel it would help her see things from your perspective, just be mindful to edit or remove anything that might feel hurtful or overly negative before sharing the space with her.

Whatever happens, I wish you clarity and healing.

Separation, if it comes to that, is always painful and can have long lasting emotional impacts.

But sometimes it's the only path to individual growth and peace.

Take care of yourself.

~ Lilis 🫂

[Pema]

Hi, Robin. I'm so sorry that things have taken a turn for the worse with your wife.

I agree with everything Lilis has already said. I think counseling is a sensible next step to try to find a way for you and your wife to get to a place of seeking harmony instead of conflict. It sounds like you're willing to do your part, but she is not. It's unlikely that you can change that on your own.

My wife is very supportive and we are very aligned in our desire to move through life together. Even so, we have our days when one or both of us is "off" somehow, and we just don't click. The goal is to recognize when that happens, acknowledge that we do want to meet one another, and try to shift out of conflict back toward empathy. That can be challenging for us, so it's even more difficult without that shared intention. So, again, if you and she would be willing to go to counseling, I think it's a very good idea.

Hang in there. Remember that it's a lot for her to process, but it's not up to you to keep her comfortable. Change can be really unsettling, and we live in a world that is pretty unsettling already.

As they say, the only way out is through.

[Robbyv213]

Another day and another sleepless night for my wife.

She is definitely dealing with a lot of emotional stuff and on top of everyday normal issues she has a husband who wants to become a woman so as you all know and probably have experienced it is a challenging time especially on her part since she did not ask or sign up for this.

I feel that we communicate better through texting unfortunately. Usually one of us says something along the lines of hey I don't know how to say this but it's easier for me to communicate what I'm thinking and feeling through text so the next few texts may be extremely long-winded and I hope you don't take it the wrong way yada yada yada and then we tend to voice whatever we need to voice.

We did that today she talked about the other night and expressing her concerns about already seeing things that she thinks is impacting her negatively and is concerned for my health as well.

I also responded in a text basically stating that my entire life I've been lying to myself not able to accept who I truly am and what my heart has been desiring. That before all this boiled over I was just existing and not living a fulfilled life and that I couldn't be truly happy because I wasn't allowing myself to be truly who I am which leads to depression and thoughts of suicide.

And that now after everything has come out over a year ago and even with the small little things that I've been doing that I'm not as sad or depressed anymore that I feel like there's actually hope for a future and hope for all the wonderful possibilities that the future may have for me and that I'm actually for once excited to live life all because of that one hope of what the future may be living as a woman and that none of this depression beforehand and feeling happyish but not fulfilled had anything to do with our relationship or her that it's been internalized for as long as I can remember that I was just on autopilot just existing getting through the day.

And that basically for a lack of a better phrase that I've been lying to myself all my life not able to accept truly who I am and what I am. And that my heart truly desires and lungs for me to take this path and journey.

And so with her response once again that our relationship is headed towards divorce just in a slower manner. That she restated she's not a lesbian doesn't want to be married to a woman and is not sexually interested or attracted to women. Which I completely understand and that is who she is and I do not hold that against her.

She said the most heartbreaking thing is that it seems that neither of us can be what the other one needs so that they can be happy and healthy and that our marriage will most likely end not because of a lack of Love or a lack of trying to make things work but mainly because we aren't what the other person needs and won't be able to give them what they need as wife or husband.

And that's basically where we're at at this point....

[Robbyv213]

So about a month ago my wife asked me if one of her friends who's leaving her husband can stay with us for a little bit till she gets on her feet she has two very young kids no more than 3 years old. I honestly did not want to invite that drama into our lives but how could you not help.

So the end of May we let her move in with her two kids and since then it's been nothing but drama and extreme negativity in the house. I don't know how to describe it but the aura is just so much and so overwhelming that it seems like everyone is just walking on eggshells and trying to tiptoe around everyone else because everyone just seems constantly aggravated for no reason.

And finally last week things got to a boiling point and my wife and her got into it which ended with my wife asking her to leave ( and that's putting it nicely)

And of course obviously I'm going to side with my wife and try to support her the best way I can but at the same time try to maintain the peace as much as possible because that's just who I am.

Long story short her so-called friend is being extremely nasty on social media and through text towards my wife and because I'm trying to maintain the peace because I feel it's something I need to do for me since I'm trying to always react with kindness as much as possible my wife now feels like I'm choosing her friend over her which is causing a whole lot more drama between me and my wife more than what's already going on between us.

Anyways now my wife is going to visit her dad for the weekend because it's his birthday and I'm staying home to watch the dogs since we no longer have anyone staying with us that can dog watch and house watch.
And somehow all of this has become my fault.

My fault for all of this even though I had said I didn't want to let her move in with us that it would only cause issues and sure enough here it is 6 weeks later causing issues and I'm to blame for everything as usual...

Anyways that was a really round about way to say that I have the weekend open. So I'm going to go to the wig shop and finally use my VA stipend to get a wig which hopefully is still going to be able to use since it was already approved last year/early this year. And potentially try to attend the local gender identity transgender support group here in Phoenix if time allows for me to do both in the same day. It might be cutting it close but it should be doable.


I'm definitely looking forward to finally getting this wig appointment out of the way. I think no matter what I need to settle on a wig this time since I'm not sure how much longer that VA stipend will be good for if I continue to sit on it.

About 2 or 3 weeks ago I had asked my wife if she would want to come to the wig appointment with me and what not. She had mixed feelings about it initially but told me to ask her again at a later time. And I recently asked her just this past week if she would still want to go with me or not and she said that it might be best for me to just do it while she's away this weekend. That right now this is something she can't do.

Which is okay but makes me sad. Makes me wonder if she's just putting up her walls and slowly pushing me away especially with all the tension that has been super high over this last 6 weeks with her friend and two kids living in our guest room for free by the way. I feel like we're just slowly going to drift apart. Especially now that we both have came to the same conclusion that we don't feel we can provide what the other person needs in a relationship in all aspects for them to be happy and healthy without the other person feeling like they're losing a part of themselves or holding back from who they truly are.

We have a wedding to go to in November for our friends in upstate New York which coincidentally also falls on the same weekend as our wedding anniversary and we've been postponing on buying airfare since we're not sure what the situation is going to be in terms of who's going to be able to watch our dogs and houses for us while we're away for the two or three days. And I have a uneasy feeling that I will end up not being able to attend and will most likely end up having to stay back while my wife goes to attend her friend's wedding in New York in November. I have a feeling that even if she won't admit it that it will be because of me taking steps to move forward in my transition. I have a feeling that I will most likely end up in that guest bedroom sooner than later and that when our lease is up for this house that we're renting we will most likely be going our own ways and obviously file whatever legal documentation that we're going to need to do in order to separate and or divorce.

This is just my concern and feelings with everything going on and all the high tension especially surrounding me transitioning. Hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully we will find a way to work through it and find a Happy middle ground somewhere but realistically i don't see a future where were able to stay together and both of us be happy.

Whether or not we can continue living together in the same house because it'll be financially beneficial and it will help us both with the regular day-to-day living, but at some point I know she's going to want me to not be around her daughter after a certain point in transition since as of right now she doesn't want anyone to know about it and doesn't want her daughter to be exposed to the fact that her stepdad is transgender and is taking action to move forward in order to live the rest of her life as a woman...

So yeah sorry that this post is kind of been all over the place these are just a lot of the things I'm dealing with and thoughts and concerns I've been having and unfortunately especially with the last 6 weeks of super high tension I'm not able to really talk about these things with my wife right now.

[Robbyv213]

On the plus side I have made progress on my efforts to try to lose weight and size.

I am now sitting in the high 180s consistently every day now for a few weeks for my body weight and this is at the end of the day. My upper body has definitely decreased some. Bust was 48 inches and is now 45.5 inches. My waist and hips have maybe fluctuated a half inch or so but not by much yet. The biggest change in difference I've noticed so far is that my weight is slowly but steadily going down and my upper body torso size is slowly getting smaller. I'm noticing that my shirts are getting baggier. So even if I am having breast growth I'm also losing some muscle Mass in my chest and back to allow the smaller measurements and my shirts/tank tops etc to fit more loosely.

So that's my positive update. I'm moving in the right direction or I guess I should say I'm moving in the direction that I'm trying to go. Lol

[Robbyv213]

Well I feel the water is boiling over at this point in time. This whole situation with her ex friend is getting out of hand and I'm to blame.

I think this whole thing really shined light on all our of relationship issues. I think our relationship and marriage will end and not because of my being trans and wanting to live life as a woman, but for all of our other issues.

I feel like all I do and have been doing is trying. Trying to do everything I can for her our family and our relationship on a daily basis and nothing is ever good enough. I'm always the bad guy, I'm always the manipulative one, everything is always about me, I'm pointing figures. Just all on me.

Our communication is ->-bleeped-<-. Neither of us can't express a feeling a thought or how were experiencing or perceive something without the other misunderstanding or end up feeling negatively about it and like they're being attacked.

In all honesty i feel more and more that we aren't good for one another. No matter how much love we have and feel for each other we just don't vibe on the same frequency. Everything we do just doesn't work.and it's exhausting. And this whole thing with allowing her ex friend to stay has just poured gasoline on our relationship issues.

I'm just done. This is not how life is ment to be..this is no how relationships are ment to be. I'm just over it all. I honestly feel the only thing I can do to give her a chance to be happy and healthy is to let her go, and in turn find peace so I can follow my heart and soul and transition.

[Robbyv213]

I'm trying to remain calm and try to stay in a place love and understanding. But I feel there's a really good chance one of us will be asking for a divorce by the end of the weekend.

[Robbyv213]

It's probably a good thing she is leaving for the weekend to visit her dad for his birthday, and since her ex friend no longer lives with us, I get to stay home and watch the dogs. Probably for he best. I know when I need to walk away to calm down, unfortunately my wife doesn't.

[Lori Dee]

Robby,

So sorry to hear what you are going through. When I decided to leave wife #3, I just sat her down and asked her to just listen. I explained that our relationship was no longer working for either of us and that I wanted her to be happy. I told her I was leaving and would be filing for divorce. I said that I will not yell and scream and point fingers if she does the same. There is no reason we cannot agree to separate peacefully, even remain friends. We were in love at one time, so we should be able to be civil.

After that, I told her it was her turn to speak if she had anything she would like to say. She didn't, so I told her that if she changes her mind, we can sit down and speak calmly about this so that we can work out the details.

Over the next month, I remained polite as I would with any longtime friend. I think we had three sit-down talks during that time. And then I left and kept my word about filing for divorce, keeping her informed, making sure she understood the forms and what she needed to do. We had a few phone conversations after I left, but we remained pleasant toward one another.

What I am hoping is that you can do the same thing. If counseling won't help and there is nothing to save, then just sit and talk to her. It is extremely important that you remain calm. You are discussing a business contract and nothing more. You are not accusing her of anything; you just feel that it isn't working. Allow her to voice her feelings, but if she gets upset, stop, remind her you are having a calm discussion, and give her time to calm down before continuing. Don't let her walk away, but sit quietly until you can continue.

The calmer that you remain, the calmer she can be. She may test you and try to argue or raise her voice. Don't let it bother you; this is a business discussion. Ask her if she needs a minute to calm down, then sit quietly until she is ready.

It will not be easy for you, but you can do it. You must stand your ground. Don't give in to her manipulations. Her only choices are divorce or counseling. She might choose counseling to stall. If you do not think counseling is an option, then that leaves only one choice. There is nothing wrong with being compassionate. You can remain strong while feeling for what she is going through.

I wish you all the best.

Hugs!

[Pema]

Absolutely everything Lori said. Every word.

[Lori Dee]

Absolutely everything Lori said. Every word.

Well, as I pointed out to her, she was wife #3. This wasn't my first rodeo. There is no point in both of us getting upset when we can calmly discuss our future and work together to get through it with as little stress as possible.