Telling to the children

[CanisLupusL]

Hi,
I'm a regular heterosexual male.. However, I'm married to a woman whose ex husband has changed his sex and he's a she now... I wouldn't give a rat's ass, but there are two wonderful kids involved - I am raising them, but (s)he is the natural father. The kids are 6(boy) and 8(girl).
The kids usually meet with their natural father a couple of times a year, mainly because (s)he him(her)self does not want to do so more often. Neither me or the mother of the children have never suggested that they shouldn't meet. The natural father himself does not earn too much money, he lives in an appartment that belongs to my wife, he doesn't pay rent and he doesn't support the kids....
Lately my stepson told me that "our father has long and polished fingernails". I was astonished to say the least. As (s)he first told that probably it is best for the children if he just disappeared from their lives, and later even if (s)he couldn't do that, noone protested. I just thought that 2 times a year (s)he would be able to act like a father, perhaps a little feminine, but still a father. But I was wrong. Now I just cannot figure out what would be the right thing to do. Lately (s)he announced that cutting the fingernails is out of the question and he would like to tell the kids the truth. My wife and I on the other hand are not sure that all truths are worth to be let out on the open. Every parent wants to protect the kids from ALL harm, regardless of the nature of the harm.

Only one thing is certain - whatever path to choose, there is only one interest to look after, and that is the interests of the children. I am not afraid about the reaction of the kids, thay most likely will learn to accept such things. But will it be too much of a burden for them? Kids do not know how to keep secrets and sooner or later other kids will find out. And I am more than sure that in our society this will make their lives a hell.

I'm very interested in transsexual people's thoughts on what to do. Please give some feedback.

Thanks.

[Alison]

just for starters... you asked for opinions of transexuals,  however -- I'm not transexual, but my wife is...

my first question is how far into transition is this person?  just crossdressing, or hormones, surgery date?

Out of curiosity, what IS the harm in telling the children?  especially of that age... They're more inclined to just accept that "Dad" isn't going to be a man anymore, Dad was a woman inside, and now he is going to be a woman outside.  you can almost describe it to them such as an illness of sorts... a birth defect...

Kids in their teens are more likely to rebel at the thought, or consider it freakish or weird...

with the idea that you want them to be a "father" to them... I CAN understand that, but by reading your post it almost seems YOU are the father to them... the natural father can still be a parent... (heck, I have 4 parents, and 3 parents-in-law so many divorces... ) albiet not a FATHER.... if they feel weird calling him Mom you guys can come up with another term of enderement...

What does your wife think?

[beth]

              The children can handle this much better than adults. I wouldn't worry about them a bit. They will soon learn the truth, even if somehow you manage to take their father out of their lives. It is much better if their parents (including you) tell them rather than them learning on their own. Just make sure you honestly research exactly what transsexuality is before you try to teach children.


As for "giving a rat's ass",

How would you feel if you had two beautiful children that you loved dearly but the only way you could see them is if you wore a dress, wig, makeup and had to pretend to be a woman?

beth

[Dennis]

As the previous poster said, children at that age are more likely to accept than are teenagers. And it will be easier for them to have continued contact with their father than to lose him from their lives.

I speak as a divorce lawyer with a lot of experience in custody and access cases, and as a lawyer for youths who get stuck in the middle.

There are ways to pitch the information for their age level. Like, "some people are born differently. Even though they look like a boy outside, they're really a girl inside. When that happens, they will sometimes want to make their outside look like their inside feels."

That said, any kind of change is stressful for children, so having a counsellor handy isn't a bad idea either.

Good luck with it.

Dennis

[Kimberly]

Speaking as a child of my parents, being told the truth is NOT in my estimation harm.

Besides, this condition (You have asked for a transsexual's point of view) is nothing to be ashamed of. Describing it as a birth defect is very apt.

So, is telling a young child that someone they love suffers from a birth defect harm? Not in my opinion. Harm, also in my opinion, is not telling the truth. Remember, there is nothing to be ashamed of about this, it is simply part of the human condition. ^*shrug* A lot like baby teeth falling out...

What to do, in my opinion, is to tell the truth. I expect no less from my parents.

As an aside, it's perfectly proper to refer to her with female pronouns just as it is proper to refer to you (who identifies as male yes?) with male pronouns.

By the by I salute you for trying to understand and make the best decision possible.

[Peggiann]

I'm a Significant Other, the wife actually of a MtoF. So I have chosen to answer you by taking points you raise seperately. My heart goes out to each of you that are envolved. It is not an easy thing to go through but when you realize the information and what it really mean in the link I have encluded for you it may become easier for you all.

he's a she now... I wouldn't give a rat's ass, but there are two wonderful kids involved - I am raising them, but (s)he is the natural father. The kids are 6(boy) and 8(girl).

I'm addressing your post in parts, 1.) "he's a she now..." Respectfully refer to this individual as she for that is what you just stated she is. I commend you for stepping up to the plate and meeting the needs of the male influence in these childrens lives. 2.) "I wouldn't give a rat's ass", You will need to understand more about Transsexuality before this bitterness will soften enough for you to beable to try to teach the children about the whys their father could not fullfill that role anymore. I have posted a link with some very important facts on these issues for your access incase you have not read it already.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2506.msg20680.html#msg20680
The kids are boy 6 and girl 8. The most important thing you need to realize about children is that, children only want to know that they will be loved and wanted and accepted no matter what changes they will face in their life time. Their Biological Father is a very important person as with out this person they would not have been born. You would not have him to thank for having them to love. I'm sure that they are loved by her very deeply.

The kids usually meet with their natural father a couple of times a year, mainly because (s)he him(her)self does not want to do so more often. This may very well be do to not knowing herself how to address these issues of sharing what she goes through and wanting not to cause more confussion for them. However now that questions are being raised now is the time to address and answer in terms they can understand. As others have posted already. Keeping it simple and short and to the points they request information on. Going only further as questions come up. Again I causion the children will detect your bitterness and will either keep the questions to themselves and go on wondering, and they not bring them to you because the detect you are bitter about someone they love and you will be no dought closing off some very important communication lines. Lines that as the children become teens will be important for them to know they can come to you and discuss anything with out worry or fear of your reaction.

As (s)he first told that probably it is best for the children if he just disappeared from their lives, and later even if (s)he couldn't do that, noone protested. It maybe easier for you and the childrens mother to not have to ever face helping them through these issues, but it is not in the best interests for them as children would have to face the feelings that they were not loved by the Biological father, which is what they would then think true, for what other explaination could they draw for such an abrupt disappearance. Teaching them to face lifes challenges and doing it truthfully will only serve as a positive for their lives in the future.

(s)he announced that cutting the fingernails is out of the question and he would like to tell the kids the truth. I just thought that 2 times a year (s)he would be able to act like a father, perhaps a little feminine, but still a father. This individual should not ever try to pass off anything other than the "he's a she now..." she is. Lots of females have long polished fingernails. It's right for her to be her and not fake and artificial. Hidding is not healthy for her. and that is what you are expecting her to do.

Now I just cannot figure out what would be the right thing to do. Lately My wife and I on the other hand are not sure that all truths are worth to be let out on the open. Every parent wants to protect the kids from ALL harm, regardless of the nature of the harm. I venture to say are you and your wife sure that you have accepted and came to terms with these issues. Your next statement is proofe of this.

I am not afraid about the reaction of the kids, thay most likely will learn to accept such things.

too much of a burden for them? Keeping them from burdens... well now there is another issue. They will no dought face some evil mouthed other children and adults out there. If your children are taught the whys and wherefores about the birth defect that their father was born with, then they will be able to handle the comments with that knowledge to share with those whom speak out of ignorance. Any other comments that come would come in one form or another and if it were not about this that the hit below the belt to get their tears to flow came it would be something else. So you face as what it is. A way to push buttons and hurt their feelings nothing more nothing less...and you then teach them to not allow another to have such control over them. 

In summery let me also add that a live relative is better than a dead relative. The scariest statistic is that pre-op Male to females have a suicide rate of 50%. Post-op rates are below the national average.

I wish you the best and hope this helps.

Warmest Regrads,
Peggiann

[Sheila]

I wanted to add my 2 cents worth into this. I'm a transsexual grandfather. I have also seen divorce from the childs point of view and never had any positive male influence.
  For one thing, like what was discussed above is that he is no longer a he, he is a she. So you should start referring to her in the feminine gender. I don't know why they got divorced, but she needs to spend a little more time with her kids. I don't believe a couple of times a year is good enough. How about at least once a week. She needs to be a good parent. When you are transitioning, sometimes jobs are hard to come by, but I don't know the circumstances here and so I won't say anymore on that subject.
  As far as the children finding out, they can take it. Let them ask the questions and let them decide what they want to call their father. They just might call her dad and if they do so be it. I know my grandson was 4 when he finally found out and started asking questions. I believe the only major question was why do you want to be a girl? So I told him that was what I am. He said oh. That was it. His mom and him discussed names and they finally came up with grandma Sheila. Be honest and truthful. If you start belittleing their father for who she is, it will bite you in the butt later. Be positive.
Sheila

[CanisLupusL]

Hi everyone!
Thanks for the quick replies. Although I must confess that you did give exactly the responses I predicted (by this I surely do not want to discredit your opinions - I do value these).

I do believe that telling the truth is the only good choise in the long term, as they will find out sooner or later. And most likely during the following months the kids will know...

But still I do hate the situation. The most important point of view is that SHE (by that I mean the biol. father) made some choises in HER life. First to marry a woman and have kids as a man. Later, it turns out SHE really is a female inside and cannot continue as a man. Well, I can imagine a lot of things, but if you are born this way, surely you must have some idea of your sexuality/gender before the age of 27 (the age SHE started living with the mother of the children). And if by that age you feel like a female and still want to start a life of a hetero male and have kids, it is surely a mistake (at this point I would like to leave out HER feelings and difficulties and consentrate on the kids)! If now SHE wants to change her sex (and SHE has undergone a couple of surgeries and has a new legal identity) SHE must understand that the situation that the kids are in is HER doing. Noone else to blame.
What I'm trying to explain is that is is extremely selfish to only think of the MtoF father as the victim. I without doubt see HER also as a predator who throws the feelings and peace of mind of the kids (and everyone else involved, but they are of secondary importance) to the altar of selfishness. SHE was a HE and decied to have kids. SHE then decided that SHE will change her sex. And in these considerations I see no place where SHE has given up anything in return for all the help SHE is receiveing or making any big sacrifices to help ease the life of HER children. True, I do feel a bit bitter inside, but I will do my best to hide that from the kids and everyone else.

And the second thing what bothers me is the fact that the kids most likely will face a lot of teasing. I do not know what it is like in american society, but over here the kids' tongues are sharper than a razorblade. It is tough enough without such a reason for teasinbg. And it does not matter a bit what you think about transsexuality and transsexuals - the kids have their own opinion and it is most definately that having a transsexual father is a GOOD REASON. Ignoring the outside world and denying the motives of most people that surround us is not a wise path to choose.

[rana]

the word predator has connotations re sex & paedophilia.  I do not think that it is not a fair or just description of your stepchildrens biological father.  In truth I feel sorrow for him now her - you really think her life is fun?  It is probably ashes - she has given up just about everything to be like she is.

You know, I do see your point of view & understand your feelings very clearly. But this is not about how any adult here feels is it?  Its about what is best for the children. 

In this situation you have a heavy responsibility.  You cannot change anything but by your actions and attitudes you have the power to greatly influence your stepchildren for better or worse.

You asked for input here so I will give mine.  You need to display the true qualities of manliness here, be an example and a shield for your stepchildren - act with grace dignity and humour (am assuming you are Australian - a sense of humour is part of our psyche).  Don't put anyone down or let any hint of any bitterness show.  They trust you and they love their father now matter how he appears now. Don't damage this.

The aim here is to ensure that your children grow up to be happy and well adjusted adults. 

[Dennis]

Kids will tease for any reason. And your kids will be more vulnerable if they can't come home to support.

As to the question about when you know, many of us know in childhood, then are taught that it's improper and suppress it until even we don't know anymore. I didn't have a clue until I was 33, then I suppressed it again until I was 42. I very much doubt your partner's ex deliberately got herself into that situation.

If kids were allowed to talk freely about feeling like the other gender, then there'd be fewer of us who spend an early adult life in misery, not knowing what's wrong. And there'd be fewer choices made like  your partner's ex.

Dennis

[melissa_girl]

Many people suppress their transsexual feeling and because of societal pressures, attempt to live their life as their birth sex.  After a certain amount of time, this can cause a real breakdown inside themselves andonce they finally accept what they are, they is no more denial.  Some transsexuals know they are female and need to do something about it earlier in life (such as their teens) and some people have suppressed it until they are much older (50+).  Many people may have thought they are alone and with the advent of the internet, have learned that there are others like the and there are treatment options.

Personally, I have know since I was little but have done a good job suppressing and hiding it from myself until recently.  I married my wife and have kids as male and have constantly been searching for more meaning to my life and feeling empty.  It wasn't until I recently stopped denying myself that I started to feel more purpose in my life.  I am still married and for the time being, still plan on staying with my wife and being a parent to my kids.  I try to take on the father role still, but as a female.  They know they have 2 loving parents.  When I told my children about myself, our youngest daughter (4) immediately took to seeing me as female and has called me Melissa ever since.  our son (8) took a little time getting used to the idea, but now accepts me.  My stepson (17) has had much greater difficulty adjusting and accepts who I am, but at the same time, goes to great lengths to try and avoid me.

Coinciding with my own experiences, there have been studies that show that the younger a child is when they are told, the greater chance they have of dealing with the news.  Don't forget that children are exposed to all sorts of stories about transformation and magic (Beauty and the beast or the toad that turns into a prince for instance).  The older a child is when told, the harder time they have dealing with it for a couple reasons:
1. You have gone X amount of years of hiding a secret from them.
2. Their ideas about how the world works becomes solidified the older they get and challenging one of the fundamental foundations of their beliefs can be much harder on them later.

Just remember, the father of your stepchildren was unlikely trying to cause any harm at the time when they were born and is probably trying to do things in a way that will be most beneficial to everyone.  That is the most probable reason for only seeing the children a couple times a year.

You mentioned that she had made a "choice" to change her sex to match what she felt.  Do realize that the alternate choices would have been death, misery or insanity, which would have been even harder on the children and would have nullified the father's purpose of living.  To call it selfish is unjust when the alternatives are put into perspective.  Unlike you, the father did not have a choice to remain living as the sex they did not identify with AND live a productive life.

Melissa

[Cassandra]

Hi Canis,

I have to chime in on this. Please know that I understand where you are coming from on this and I can sympathise with some of what you say. However, the concern for the children though laudible is selfish from everyones standpoint in this situation.

My parents were divorced right after I was born. I knew very little about my father and was raised by my grandmother and my aunt so I didn't know my mother all that well either. I did get to know her later but my father was another story. I wanted to understand about all of this but everyone was so concerned that I wouldn't or couldn't understand. Alcholisim was the root cause in my parents divorce on both sides.

I resent very much everyones pussyfooting around the subject and that it took most all of my life trying to put little bits and pieces of information together into one cohesive story as to what happened. I still don't know all of it because most of the players are dead now. Do not rob your children by trying to spare their feelings or protect them from something they desperately need to understand.

As to thier natural father I don't know if she doesn't want to tell the children for the same reasons you and your wife don't or if she doesn't want to be around them because she just doesn't want to be reminded.

My impression was that my father did not want to see me and I was very angered to find out later on that I was kept away from him to spare me the knowledge of what he was really like. I now know that he did care about me and he did want to see me but did not because the rest of the family had convinced him that I did not want to see him. I did not know any of this until he was already dead. I never knew were he was when he was alive, even though for three months when I was sixteen I was living only a few blocks away.

It seems to me that all of you need to get together and work out telling the kids and introduce them to thier new mom. If she is not willing to do that. If she doesn't want to see them then they need to know why and she has to have the guts to tell them herself. For the sake of the children you must do this.
That's my two cents as someone who has been on the receiving end of your brand of concern. Trust me if you don't they will resent all of you later. How do I know? I resent all of them.

Cassie

[Gill]

Hi There:

I thought I would comment on this.  This is truly a tough situation and I can understand your bitterness.  That said do you truly want to enable the prejuidices of this world.  As adults it is our role to educate our children and I for one would think to dicuss this with the kids, or better yet with everyone, would truly send a message to the kids that it is okay to talk (openly) about this, and other, controversial situations.  Perhaps I am an idealist, but I see this as an opportunity to grow, both emtionally and intellectually.

No matter what, she is still their father, that will never, ever change.  How you deal with that is totally up to you, but as I said before do you truly want to enable the prejuidices of this world.  You came to Susan's to tap into our experiences and learn from them.  If I had to do it all again I would have been more open about all of this to our daughter.  Though she knew about it, I feel I failed in my role to educate her.  So now we talk about this openly, each learning more and more everyday about being ts.

When you speak about the "other kids will talk".  Welllllll what kids don't talk and tease.  Why not meet with an advisor at the school to let them know what is going on, perhaps they can have an information session with the class etc.  Tap into their experience as educators.   I know this works very well here in Canada.

My six cents.  Let us know how things are going.

Gill

[Debtv]

A few points.........

        I too married and had two kids...while living in denial...and now live with the guilt of knowing that I lied to my ex and myself. I trully regret it. That is propely how your wifes ex feels...per say her self-limmiting visits. Believe me...she knows it's all her fault. Back then I though I could 'will' my tg feelings away...sadly I could not...and I was wrong about that. This is partly the non-acceptance of our culture...think about growing up in the 60's, knowing you are different...so different that other will hate you for it. Not an easy way to live...exspecialy alone with it. Times are changing and maybe it will get to the point where a kid can tell their parents about their tg feelings without being thought of as disgusting or crazy.

       Kids can easily accept transgender....easier than most adults. My kids have known since their young teens...and see me as Papa...no mater what I'm wearing. As to being teased, they say that it was and is still somewhat true (both in their 20'). But they say they love and are proud of me and have always defended me. Btw, adversity builds strenght.

     Why are you bitter? Taking on some of your wifes bitterness? Listin, in almost every divorce there is bitterness...transgender or not. The best outlook here, as you already said it was the kids needs, would be for to leave the bitterness behind and let the kids regain a relationship with their bio father...transgender or not.

     And....power to you to find susans and ask...very cool and mature of you!

Good luck
DebTV