Difference between Cross Dressing and Transsexuals

[TheBattler]

Hi All,

I read the very interesting articles today posted by Peggiann about CD and TS and it got me wondering the difference between the two - a topic that worries me. I know it is not good to catergories people but in my path of discovery I can very much relate to the following on "Understanding Cross Dressing".

Q) Why did he start?

A) Probably out of a sense of childlike curiosity. With some, their sisters or a baby sitter may have dressed them up as girls either for fun or punishment. With some it is purely a fantasy. Dressing can relieve the stress involved in living up to the perceived male role model as a tough, problem solver. The slightest deviation from this role may lead to a feeling of temporary inadequacy. Pretending to be a girl gives a release from male peer pressures. When the dressing is completed the CD feels much calmer and more able to face his role.

Well that sums me up even though I never had a sister to dress me. Childhood curiosity turning to fantasy and and then somehow progressing to where I become calmer when I cross dress (in my case wearing skirts).

My worry is that since I have become more knowlegeble I can create new fantasies. I know I would like some of the effects of HRT but I do not consider myself a transsexual. In particular Peggiann's infomation of "Understanding Transsexuals" does not describe me.

Q) When did it start?

A) For most it started at birth. Indeed, many remember their first thoughts were that something was wrong and that they were the opposite gender of what they were percieved to be. Some supress it until much later.

So I still consider myself am more of a cross dresser than a transexual. So why are some asspects of HRT so appealing to me that I sometimes fantasy of gaining permision to use HRT by my therapist? I should add here that I did discuss HRT with her last time I visited her and she outline what I would have to overcome before she would agree. Do other CDs have the same fantasy?

Are other CDs happy at their state where they are calmer cross dressing and have no desire to transition? Will my dreams of becoming for feminine ever cease?


Alan

[stephanie_craxford]

Hello Alan

To help clear the murk that's out there, check out the Wiki.  There are two definitive articles available, plus other links associated with this subject.  You can find them at these links:

Cross-dressing

Transsexual

Get back to us

Steph

[TheBattler]

Stephanie,

So there are clear differences between Cross-dressing and Transsexual. Hence since I am a cross-dresser I should not consider going any further then my current situation? I can still play with all of the Feninine stuff that I like to do.

Alan

[stephanie_craxford]

Hello Alan.

Stephanie,

So there are clear differences between Cross-dressing and Transsexual. Hence since I am a cross-dresser I should not consider going any further then my current situation? I can still play with all of the Feminine stuff that I like to do.

Alan

Yes there are.  However where you go from there is entirely up to you.  If you are happy with your current situation then enjoy your life to the fullest.  If not seek answers and advice.

Steph

[Shelley]

Hi Alan,

I am a CD and have been for nearly fourty years. In that time I have fantasised about having real breasts and even surgery. I know in myself that this journey is not for me and that I am happy to remain a CD. I guess it is a bit like fantasising about being taller thinner or what ever you think that you would like to be. I would not undertake surgery to change my look or undergo HRT but that doesn't mean that I am denying Shelley it just means that I have become comfortable with who I am. In my case there are two genders living within.

Hope this helps a bit

Shelley

[rana]

hi Allan,
I like how Shelley expressed it, "two genders living within"  yes, that sums up me pretty well.  rana is part of me all the time now, sadly I am not in a position to BE rana at present but she/I is always there hidden.  Its not like I have a split personality, I don't know, maybe an extra dimension to me

I do have fantasies amout being a woman - but thats all they are.  (sigh)  But then again if I was a woman, I would not have the good things of life I have now. 

I can't have it both ways (and that's not a pun      )

rana

[TheBattler]

Thank you Shelley and Rana for your replies,

"Two Genders living within" is a very interesting phase which I guess applies to me. Sometimes I just want to go and do something girly like me decision to have my hair done this Sunday.

Maybe I should think of a feminine name for this website. My friend called me Alice when he ran past me in a race last night as I have used that name for myself a few times. I let the cat out of the bag 18 Months ago when I invited my friends to my "Pink Party" and I wore a nice pink dress.  My friend have seen me struggle with this every since.

Alan

[HelenW]

Well, Alice, please let me be the first to welcome you with your new name!

I identified as a cross dresser for 38 years until recently when I realized I was more transexual than I thought.  But that would have been very inappropriate for me when I was younger.  You are what you are WHEN you are, if you take my meaning. 

I grew to accept myself over those years and gave up any guilt that I may have imposed upon myself.  Feel good about yourself, you're doing nothing wrong and if others have a problem with it, well, then it's THEIR problem, not yours. 

I'll look forward to reading more from you in the future!

helen 

[Lori]

My understanding is that Crossdressers are happy wearing womens clothing but do not wish to become women. Transexuals are women just wearing the wrong skins. They cannot change the mind so they change the body. Crossdressers are happy with their body parts they have.

[melissa_girl]

That's a pretty good statement Lori.

Melissa

[Shelley]

I think you will find Lori and Melissa that that is an oversimplification of something wich is much deeper than just clothing. What you described is fetish behaviour and not what Cdism is.

Shelley

[Kate Thomas]

Alice
I very much feel the way Shelly and Rana do about crossdressing.
For me dressing gives me direct access to a second self. i have been crossdressing for about fourty years now, only recently did i discover and release Kate from within me. yes i to have thought much about becoming a woman but i am happy at present and will leave all options open for the future.
I now have aquired addtional personality trates that simply did not exsist within me before. these trates seeme to fill in gaps that were there  i am now much more outgoing and finde it much easer to strike up a conversation with strangers.

Like Helen i have learned to accept myself, and now feel no guilt about who i am.

I have thought about HRT, but rarly for any length of time.

Will my dreams of becoming for feminine ever cease?

Never.


"It is unfulfilled dreams that keep you alive."
Robert Schuller


Dream On

Huggs and Best Wishes

Kate   

hmmm.... Alice = Truth/Noble  A very Nice name!

[melissa_girl]

I think you will find Lori and Melissa that that is an oversimplification of something wich is much deeper than just clothing. What you described is fetish behaviour and not what Cdism is.

Shelley

First of all, I didn't describe anything.  Secondly, I did not see Lori description as sounding fetishistic at all.  The way I see it, a crossdresser dresses up to express a feminine side to themselves.  I think the point that Lori was trying to make is that a crossdresser is comfortable enough with themselves where they feel that they require bodily modification in order to be happy.

Unless a crossdresser specifically focuses on the sexual aspects (and this usually focuses only on certain articles of clothing) they feel when dressing up, I wouldn't consider it fetishistic.

I'm sorry if you we're offended by these posts Shelley.  You have always appeared very feminine to me and in my experience, fetishistic TVs tend to act very male.

Melissa

[Lori]

I think you will find Lori and Melissa that that is an oversimplification of something wich is much deeper than just clothing. What you described is fetish behaviour and not what Cdism is.

Shelley

O.k. so what is your definition of Cdism? Because I've been to two gender therapists and that is my understanding. If its something much deeper then I'm always open for learning and I would like to share with my therapists.

[Shelley]

Hey Melissa,

Not so much offended as clarifying something. CDism is much deeper than described. There is nothing unreal about Shelley. Shelley is part of me part of everything I do and part of every decision I make. Shelley does not need to dress to be expressed. There is a tendency to focus on dressing as a woman. Therefore that line of thinking results in 'CD's dress and TS's experience'. Not so. I am firstly TG but I also choose to cross dress. The first is a reality the second a choice. I have gone very long periods without dressing in my life yet this does not change who I am as putting on a skirt does not change who I am. I am me and I experience life as me.

I may be male externally but I experience things differently to males. That is not necessarily how I choose to be. I relate to female conversation and ideas more easily than males. Because I choose not to make changes to my exterior does not mean that I would not want to. I have learned to accept me this way and as I have said before I am I believe two genders with in one.

As to definition of CDism... My life! Where I am treated by all who see me as male when in fact I have a very feminine side that longs to be treated differently.
So my definition is someone who has come to terms with having two genders in one. This will not work for all as we do not necessarily fit into neat little boxes and that is the problem with generalisms each experiences there own life in their own way.

No offence taken as I'm sure no offence was intended. We are after all in CD talk.

Shelley

[melissa_girl]

Thanks for the clarification Shelley.  Being TS, I perhaps did not completely understand the entire crossdresser experience.  I realized that it meant there were 2 sides to the coin, but I thought this was generally expressed when dressed up.  You did mention being a cross-dresser and being transgendered as 2 different things and I tend to agree with those definitions.  However, I think one of the main differences between transsexuals and being transgendered (not altering body permanently) all comes down to individual comfort levels with their bodies.

The other part is (at least with me personally) that a transsexual does not have 2 genders.  They are the opposite gender of their birth gender that has the wrong body.  The whole idea is to correct this so that we are comfortable with ourselves.  Sometimes I get a little jealous of non-transsexuals with the fact that you are able to be comfortable with yourselves without drastic alterations of yourself and your lives.  You don't have to give up everything and spend thousands of dollars just to be the gender you should have been born as.  Not to mention all the psychological issues on top of that.

Again, thanks for sharing from a cross-dresser's point of view.  This was my attempt to share from my point of view.

Melissa

[Shelley]

Sometimes I get a little jealous of non-transsexuals with the fact that you are able to be comfortable with yourselves without drastic alterations of yourself and your lives.  You don't have to give up everything and spend thousands of dollars just to be the gender you should have been born as.  Not to mention all the psychological issues on top of that.

I think that it takes an awful lot of guts and determination to make the decision to do what you and others have done or are doing. Perhaps the difference is actually in that. What are you prepared to give up to experience that which you know you are inside?

I think Lori's staement was close but rather than happy with, we have learned to live with those parts because we either lack the determination or are not prepared to make the sacrifices you talk of. For me that is the case anyway.

Sometimes I think we of the transgendered share more in common than we realise.

Shelley

[Kimberly]

I do not think it is a lack of courage that keeps the CD from transition, and indeed I do not see CDs as a lesser form of (I.e. more tolerable) transsexualism, but rather a separate and similar arrangement. As previously mentioned, and what I too believe, to be CD is to be both genders, that is in stark contrast of the TS state of being only one. I suppose a sentence I recently wrote to my grandmother illustrates that, "I qualify as a 'transsexual', which is to say the only "male" thing about me is my body and my name." That is not at all the definition of a 'greater form' of CD.

So consequently I do not think either side has more or less courage really. At times I cannot fathom the determination and willpower a CD must possess to keep their sanity.

Whatever the case may be though, my 'choice' wasn't one of courage... To use the analogy we've used before: My house had caught on fire again and I had ran out of water to douse the flames... Do I stay and burn or do I run and hope. That's desperation, not courage. ... In transitioning do I persevere or do I return to that burning house? It might seem like I'm determined and courageous but what choice do I have? Press on... or what? Die? There is no going back.

[TheBattler]

Hi All

Well there are so many interesting points within this thread but a lot of it comes down to self aceptance. I think Helen sums it up the best.

I grew to accept myself over those years and gave up any guilt that I may have imposed upon myself.  Feel good about yourself, you're doing nothing wrong and if others have a problem with it, well, then it's THEIR problem, not yours. 

That self acceptance is something I need to work on - Getting rid of the guilt. That was one of the main reasons I started to see my Counseller. I saw a description of transvestic Fetishism on a web site toms Cafe see (http://www.tomscafe.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8185&highlight=transvestic) and its description scared me as it so much described myself.  I would hate to think in the end this dictates my life and my inital discussion with my counseller where arround cutting it out of my life.

Now Shelley comes up with a nice term CDism - two gender in one. It could describe some of my behaviour and desires and maybe I should try and get my head arround it and 'bring out Alice'. It sounds like a much better world to live in.

Unfortunatly for me some of my behaviour can be described a fetish. I found and entered Tom's Cafe well before Susans and a good desciption of what I am talking about can be seen in http://www.tomscafe.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8660. I have talked to my couseller about the events in Threadbo and other events that have happened since that time. Her main suggestion was to keep on going - Keep on wearing your skirts and see where it leads. Hopfully I will soon come to a place where I accept myself as I am worried that this approach is just like giving a drug addict more drugs.

Well now I would like to explore 'two genders in one'. Maybe this is where I should turn so I can accept my behaviour and feelings (ie my whole self). I hate when I denile these feeling exist as it always lead to me being unhappy.

Alan

[melissa_girl]

Hi Alan, I just read the links you posted plus all that you wrote.  In the diagnostic criteria for Transvestic Fetishism, it says:

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, in a heterosexual male, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing.
B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

You mentioned on the other forum that it was skirts that you were particularly fond of.  I guess the real questions come down to Why do you like wearing them?  Is it sexual?

In a nutshell, a fetishistic TV wears women's clothing for pure sexual enjoyment and nothing more.  Only you can answer these questions and you don't even need to share your answers.  I asked them more to make you think.

Melissa