Does it hurt us to be in stealth?

[cindybc]

Agreed, And yes some boards, well, actually a good lot of them and their occupants actually can be deceived by the intent of others. It is difficult to read a persons personality and intentions through some electrons traveling over some wires to some other computer hundreds if not thousands of miles away.

Even gathered together in person in the real physical world we will find that individually we have different perspectives over different propositions, occurrences and concepts. This makes humans very diverse beings when it comes to the senses. When it comes to interpreting certain observations and experiences stemming from each individual and their final conclusion from their observation. I once said in another board that if you take ten individuals and had them examine this one flower. They will all come back with a different concept of what that one flower looked like and smelled like to them. The Grand Illusion? Perhaps.

Cindy

[Rachael]

tbh, i just read thier post... it was perfectly clear to me... although, i seem to lack the ->-bleeped-<- ability to be instantly, and totally offended by something without actually reading it....
maybe i will learn this life skill one day.
R >

[Shana A]

I believe there are psychological stresses from living in stealth, and feel they could be detrimental over the long term. For me. This has nothing to do with the activist aspect.

Regarding activism, each person makes their own choices. As an activist, I support your right to choose stealth, however I'm still fighting for everyone's rights, yours and mine.

y2g

[Rachael]

tbh, the only stress i experienced was when people knew...

I fell into stealth at work... and all it requires is me to be myself... i pass, and nobody thinks im anything but a girl named Rachael...
my apearance takes no effort, i rarely wear makeup, hair is easy, im seen as female
i cant talk in anything but a girls voice...
i naturally behave in a female way
there is no stress to keep up an 'act' like before when i presented male...

this is easy. its NO stress becuse im finally me...

stealth is only stressfull if your not ready. if you are, its just the natural end to the social transition.
R

[Keira]

It depends on what stealth means.
If it just, a need to know, but if someone knows, what the hey,
that's not the same thing as total stealth, which is probably
rarer.

Even for those in total stealth,
Most people don't think about being discovered day to day,
so why would they feel stressed?


As for out TS activists
fighting for all of us.
I'm not so sure. I've heard plenty
of TS activists and they seem to
be fighting for mostly people like
them and assuming we are the
same. The point of view
and attitude
seems to be so different
from TS who disapeer
into the crowd that
it gets me angry when
I see them interviewed!

Only TS those that come back
from stealth voluntarily (or are outed)
after awhile in mostly stealth mode
(like Lynn Conway)
seem to have a more balanced
view of things.

[BCL]

This will always be an emotive subject, to a degree it depends on what your aims are for transition. For some simply passing or living a life free from discrimination is utopia, for others it is simply blending into society and living as a member of their target gender.

Others are rightly proud to proclaim their trannsexual status and actively seek change in society that will hopefully eventually come.

I still maintain we are each individually free to make such choices, some people may have limited choices, some may reach the utopia of living in stealth.

I never thought that 8 years ago I could even pass, but now living a life where I mix freely and openly with both men and women, without my past being an issue, its something I still cannot comprehend. Yes, my past may eventually come back to haunt me, but in the meantime I am simply happy just being seen as a woman to everyone who knows me.

Rebecca

[Rachael]

Im totally out and proud!.... im a female, and the whole world sees me as such... female activist!


ehem....



it also hugely annoys me when activists speak on behalf of the whole community with thier views, especially the ones with wacky gender views and the ones who proclaim that were 'transgenderists or gender enthusiasts...' like is a bloody model train hobby! or those demands that transsexuals should  have Trans as thier official gender! PUSH OFF....
R >

[NicholeW.]

Why 'trans-Gender' at all. Gender = social construct for behavior, roles, division of labor, etc. Sex= biology.

I know the old argument was supposed to be "but people will then think this is about having sex or that it's about sexual identity."

Huh? So for the TGs it IS very often about sexuality and getting turned on by clothing, role play, etc. To be a part of 'GBLT' -- doesn't that de facto make it, in many people's minds, part of the 'sexual identity movement?' The argument has overtones of absurdity even from its most creative supporters.

My problem has been that my damned body has not been 'right!'

I could wear whatever clothing and my damned body would STILL not have been right. I could have been a runway model and my damned body would STILL not have been right. I could be called "ma'am" 100% of the time and my damned body would STILL not have been right.

TS is about body and biology. It is NOT about social roles. To be stealth-y (I won't use 'stealth' because anymore that is like a mythological beast, a manticore) means for me that I do NOT have to live any more in a way that reflected 'body-dysmorphia.'

That is my pleasure. It does not affect your pleasure in any meaningful way at all.

Nichole

[Rachael]

zing.....
im the same, i can wear, and DO wear boys/andro clothes....
i get read as female, in sneakers, hoodie, and baggy jeans.... clothes are to keep me warm....
and i agree, Ts shouldnt be in LGBT....
R >

[NicholeW.]

... i agree, Ts shouldnt be in LGBT....
R >

Well we kinda agree. Some of the 'T' should be. TS should not be conflated with Transgender for the purpose of this particular argument. Why? Because they are not simply 'horses of a different color.' They are two separate genera and species of animal.

N~

[Rachael]

bingo.....

one umbrela for CD, TV TG etc...

TS  imo, medical and not remotely sexual, or cross gender or anything, were normal people with body defects


androgyne? pass
R

[Julie Marie]

But it could be that us living in stealth is actually one of the reasons we are not getting as far as fast with legal rights and society respect.

I poised this question some time ago and the responses were at times very emotional.  I recall the thread had to be locked because things got very heated.  This question is as controversial as abortion. 

I feel there's no doubt if each and every one of us were out, proudly proclaiming we are TG (umbrella term), then yes, we would get better recognition and better treatment.  But it's like being with a bunch of friends all daring each other to jump in the icy cold water.  The first one has no idea if anyone will follow.  If everyone said that tomorrow they will all come out to the world how many really would?  Considering the fallout most would face I'd say very few.  And if you don't believe the person standing next to you will do it, unless you're a very independent and strong willed person, you likely won't either.

Until that time comes when we really unite, and not just in words, each of us must determine for ourselves if and when we're coming out.  Because the reality is we will have little support from our community when we do, outside of words of encouragement.  For the most part, coming out is done alone if for no other reason than we are few and far between.

Julie

[Natasha]

TS should not be conflated with Transgender for the purpose of this particular argument. Why? Because they are not simply 'horses of a different color.' They are two separate genera and species of animal.

N~

exactly so.  i'm a woman that was born transsexual & i'm NOT transgendered

alas

as far as 'outsiders' are concerned, a ->-bleeped-<-, a cross-dresser, an androgyne, and a transsexual woman are all just different words for a 'man in a dress'.

The transgender community uses this to their advantage; in the last few years, there has been an increase (small, but still significant) in the general understanding and acceptance of transsexualism; we've made advances socially, legally and medically, and the transgender activists want some of that acceptance for themselves which is why there is this subtle insistence that transsexual people come under the "transgender umbrella", and therefore society can't deny "other transgender" people the rights and acceptance that it's beginning to offer to transsexual people.  all nonsense, of course, but very plausible, and it carries with it a dangerous barb for us.

lumping transsexual people into the transgender camp means that we are viewed as having a psychological problem, and are told to either get over it, or "see a shrink" to have it fixed. as a result, the proper medical treatment of hormones and surgery can become more difficult, if not in some cases impossible to obtain. jobs can be denied. the denial of the right of marriage in some states and countries (due to the belief that "assigned with one sex at birth, means you are always that sex", results in the refusal to change birth certificates) is also reinforced. this creates the possibility of revoking this right in other states and countries, where transsexual people are considered to be transgender, since transgender people are almost never considered by the general public to be any sex other than the one they were assigned to at birth.

being considered transgender does me, a woman born transsexual, more harm than good. why? because it creates the probability that i will be viewed as "born a man, always a man" even though i was never a man. i was born transsexual; i've had treatment for that; i'm anatomically female.

furthermore, it doesn't matter that i've had the corrective surgery, or that i've spent years in therapy, and thousands on hormones, hair removal, other medical treatments and speech therapy; because as a "transgender" individual one's sex never changes from the one you're assigned at birth. it also creates the nasty unspoken subtext of "why can't you just live with what you have, and be happy with it like a cross-dresser, ->-bleeped-<-, she-male, drag queen or other does?"  fyi i'm a woman who was born transsexual. and i'm not "transgendered".

Posted on: January 27, 2008, 11:06:40 AM.

[tekla]

I don't think it hurts, but it does not help either. 

And if your not part of the fight, complaining about the outcome ain't changing anything.

[cindybc]

hi y2gender, I have grown to like you and respect your insights, but let me say something about mois. Not much rattles my cage and I am outgoing and love to yack the ears off of folks and I use home spun humor, where ever I go. I am a happy person but I also have my sensitivities, I cry easy, I laugh easy, but I am usually in a good kick ass mood, and I am happy 90% of the time. So I knew seven years ago that I would never pass 100%. 

Stealth?? No I just decided to make the best of what I have and I love life and I will not, for that matter, I refuse to be turned away by fear. I don't have any fear of anything much but I am quite prudent as to where I go. I may be called to help a street person and I would not hesitate to do so. Wing Walker and I did just that last night. For one thing I been there on the street, not a very nice place to be. I will go when I am called, I have my Wing Walker at my side as well.

Cindy   

[Shana A]

bingo.....

one umbrela for CD, TV TG etc...

TS  imo, medical and not remotely sexual, or cross gender or anything, were normal people with body defects


androgyne? pass
R

Regarding under which umbrella androgynes might be included, I lost my umbrella somewhere and have been walking around in the rain ever since

Stealth?? No I just decided to make the best of what I have and I love life and I will not, for that matter, I refuse to be turned away by fear. I don't have any fear of anything much but I am quite prudent as to where I go. I may be called to help a street person and I would not hesitate to do so. Wing Walker and I did just that last night. For one thing I been there on the street, not a very nice place to be. I will go when I am called, I have my Wing Walker at my side as well.

Cindy   

Cindy, it is wonderful that you are in this world, and so willing to help a person whom most would simply walk right by.

y2g

[Rachael]

* Rachael issues all androgyne's with macs.

R >

[cindybc]

"Hey, hey, hey!!!!" I was born a woman with a physical defect. So I went and got the Doc to remove that over-sized wart in my pants and now I am woman. "I am woman!!!" I am the Dunes of Mars Warrior Princess. "Hey Maaaaa!!!!"would you go fetch the Quantum Level Puddle Jumper for me please? And my umbrella has holes in it from the moths in the closet, darn moths anyway.

Cindy

[Berliegh]

Re: Does it hurt us to be in stealth?

No....it would hurt more not to be stealth...

[Rachael]

Dont forget the constant stabbing pain that reminds you that you are pretending to be a natal female, and lieing to the world by passing...
R >