What is "True Love" ?

[Peggiann]

"True love is neither physical, nor romantic. True love is an
acceptance of all that is, has been, will be, and will not be."

It's a enormouse undertaking. Am I able to meet it's needs? I hope so, I try to be.

Smiles,
Peggiann

[Kimberly]

True love is to love the soul of the person... every single fiber of their existance.

[HelenW]

My definition?

I learned this many years ago and I still think it's true:

True love is letting a person be exactly who they are and allowing them not to be exactly who they're not.

By this definition, you can love every one and every thing. 

Of course, my beliefs, attitudes and judgements get in the way and that makes it very difficult sometimes to get to the love.

Still working on that .  .   .    .
helen

[angelsgirl]

Wow Peggiann! You have the HARDEST questions to answer!   Hmmmm....I feel that everyone's take on true love is pretty good, I don't know if I can actually define it.  But what it means to me is that if you truly love someone you will do the right thing for their sake, even if it's the most difficult thing for either or both of you to do.  It's like the old saying "If you love something, set it free. If it returns to you, it was meant to be."  Do we (as in all of us) have what it takes? I guess we can only hope.  Each trial we go through in life seems overwhelming at the time, but each time that we pull through we're made stronger for it. I really believe in that. Will there come a situation that will absolutely break us? Only time will tell...and none of us have enough time to be worrying about that!  Take heart, Peggiann, you've come this far and your still putting words together coherently!  When you start babbling is when I'll start worrying! *hugs*

[Dennis]

As Shakespeare said: "Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds."

Mine did, guess it wasn't.

Dennis

[Terri-Gene]

True Love is not something one can easily define, but you know you have it when you weigh the consiquences of ever thing you do as to how it will effect a particular person and thier own quest for peace.

There are times when it is better to take the hurt yourself then to pass it on to someone else, whatever anyone else would call it, I call that an indication of love even if you can't recognise it as such.

Terri Gene

[Melissa]

True love is when you find out your spouse is transsexual and it doesn't change anything between you love-wise.

Melissa

[Dennis]

Ironically, this is the full sonnet, which was read at my wedding (at my request, by my friend to my spouse):

Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
   If this be error and upon me proved,
   I never writ, nor no man ever loved.


Aside from the apparently gendered reference in the last line, it seems to fit this topic. And I had no idea that I was going to transition at the time I got married.

Dennis

[Russ]

We could get all lyrical and quote a million poems and songs, but I believe that true love is looking into the soul of another, past their faults and shortcomings and choosing to love them anyway.

[Teri Anne]

Hi Peggiann,
I told my ex when I was living with her that "love is acceptance."  She left but, even though she is now happily remarried, we still watch out for one another and, in our own way, love one another.  When a parent tells their kid, "Don't do that," there is still love -- some would argue that the parent is SHOWING that love by disagreeing with the kid's decision.  It is in that manner that I think my ex tried to fight my transition -- she was trying to protect someone she loved.

I agree with your more complete version of my "love is acceptance" saying: "True love is an acceptance of all that is, has been, will be, and will not be."  A parent or spouse can ACCEPT (but not necessarily agree with) what we do, in transitioning.  In an ideal world, it would be great if we all agreed with one another.  But that's not possible.  Accepting something you disagree with is the ultimate form of giving love.

Teri Anne

[born2learn]

Love is understanding, and being there for each other. Love is when two people learn to understand each other and support each other all the way. When two people care about each other and think of "we" and not "I". love is when you look pass the way the person from outside and see the person for who they really are.

[Shannon]

To me, I agree the definition of true love is a combination of total and complete acceptance of all that is, has been, will be and what will not be, (both physically and emotionally), but it also includes mutual trust between two partners.  Without mutual trust in a relationship there can never be true love.  You will know in your heart what true love really is when you find yourself constantly discovering new things about your partner and it never gets old.       

Shannon

[Teri Anne]

Hi, Shannon,
The only problem with including "mutual trust" as a necessity to true love is the dilemma we all face when pre-transitioning with people we love.  Upon telling them our dark secret that we are transsexual, they are shocked and ask, "How can I trust you when you can keep a secret like that from me for years?"  And they're right.  But it, of course, dismisses the "mitigating circumstances."  They're ignoring the fact that transitioning in our society carries a huge stigma and dangers -- we don't tell them because we're VERY fearful.  Who's right?  It's one of those grey areas where both sides are right, in my opinion. 

Shannon - you're right:  Ideally, you want both honesty and acceptance (not approval) in a relationship.  But it's hard to be honest (when society thinks you're a joke) and it's hard to accept something out of the social norm.

Teri Anne

[born2learn]

it hard to tell the one we love about the change. However, if they love us sure they will accept it. It just people are afraid and so unsure of what is right or wrong. People dont understand untill they go through the same process. Like one of my friend say " no matter what, everyone need love" and love is everything from accept to care to be there and even spend a life time together. there is so many way to define what is love. The event in our life is what will test the love between two people. sure people can say "i love you" but when things change will it be the same? ofcourse not, right. If we are to be afraid forever then what is love. The people who love us are the one who always there for us.

[Peggiann]

Ummm! Some really great feedback. Thanks! I'm digesting it all.

I agree born2learn, "People dont understand untill they go through the same process."

I have often said one can not truely understand untill they take off thier own shoes and socks and put on those of anothers and walk in them for a while to get the full benifit of what life must be like for that individual.(no matter what the issues are.

Does one have to understand to completely accept though? I wonder?

Smiles,
Peggiann

[Shannon]

Hi Terri Anne,

You're absolutely right and I agreee.  Its not fair how society places our kind out of the social norm.  Its historically been society's own way of dealing with something it does not completely understand. 

As far as relationships are concerned, I still look at mutual trust as being an agreement between two partners that there are certain boundaries within the relationship that are never to be crossed.  I still believe it plays a very strong part in true love. 

Sadly, in many relationships early on, ->-bleeped-<- is rarely ever brought up because, as you mentioned, there are dangers associated with it and the stigma that society puts on it often forces a person to place it into the closet due to those fears.  When it finally manifests itself later in the relationship when the person decides to finally transition, thats usually when its realized by their partner that the mutual trust boundary has been breached, even though technically speaking, the boundary was already breached much earlier in the relationship mainly because it was never brought up in the first place, but instead put in the closet.  Its no wonder partners feel betrayed.  The only things our kind can hope for once its all out of the closet are reconciliation, understanding, acceptance and total honesty between our partners and ourselves.   The sad part is as you mentioned, "it's hard to be honest (when society thinks you're a joke) and it's hard to accept something out of the social norm."  This is so true. 

Shannon     

[born2learn]

well sometime it take a person to accept is to be in another person shoe. Let say if a person seen a ghost and tell the story to a person never seen one will that other person between and agree to the story? ofcourse not until they themself see it too. I think maybe we need time for other to accept. It's funny when i was in school we learn about people being xxy where people who are male with female body and female with male body part or look. I think cause the percentage of these people are born is so low that people just shock when they think why people would change gender.
Most people can't understand why people change gender because they feel it is wrong cause god give us the gender and we go change it.  Most women would want to have a guy that give her a child. Being change gender sure can't give her a child yet. The same go for transgender women. To tell the true it just depend on the people you are with. If they not willing to accept no point to push.  If they willing to accept then great.
I wonder are we changing gender for ourself or for other? if it is for ourself why it is that we need to push other to accept us. if they dont accept then we shouldnt be with them. It is true what people say if we accept ourself then people sometime more willing to accept us for who we are.

[Peggiann]

Does it mean that one does not love enough if able accept and is supportive but can not stay in the relationship? I think not . Remember one must be fair, firm and friendly to ones self as well as to ones partner. I think it's ok to say "it's ok for you to be what ever and whom ever you need to be and I need what I need too." We can till be close and helpful and sharing even if not in same relationship for one another regardless if it is for issues of TG or what ever they are for. Isn't it loving to let the other be free to live totally as they wish or need for their own sake? I think yes.

Many beleive marriage is forever. I am one of them. One of the, "till death do us part", believers. Does this mean when you can't live any longer as man and wife you have to devorce. No ...not really. I'm mean you can be married still but live in different homes. You can still be there to support each others paths taken but still not loss sight of ones own needs for healthy sake. Love is not only given in partner relationships. I have many people in my life I love. I don't judge them, or smoother them, or demand of them to be a certain way.

Someone said you want both honesty and approval in a relationship. Ummm...
Let me put this out there. Ones has a small child whom has a tendacy to stretch his/her stories to make them more important or for what ever. This child never gets over the stretching and grows to an adult still telling whoppers. You loved your child even though they weren't honest you may not have approved but you still loved them. Even now that they have grown you love them. One becomes able to accept and over look as time marches on in life and love is a wonderful cord of love still allows one to be there for the other so what is this thing called love? Ah there is that thing "time" born2learn mention too.

The mystries of what is love?  What has bearing on if one is able to love are endless and ablilty to continue in love have just as many twists and turns as life itself. I posed the question, "What is true love?"  Some of you have spoke as if it has a time frame. I wonder does it have an end? How about a starting point, how about a degree of depth or shallowness? Are they all not a genuine and true love? What of parental love, or love for ones sibling? Love for ones pet or of nature? Have we been using the wrong word for such actions and emotions? Oh my goodness then there is the love of one own self.

Pondering,
Peggiann

[Robyn]

Love of oneself.  There is a saying, a truism for some, that one cannot love another if one doesn't love himself/herself.  I think that goes to feelings of selfworth.  Am I worthy of loving you if I don't love/respect myself?

Another thing I was told when my ex and I were going through the process of parting is that people stay together for as long as they have things to learn in/from the relationship.  I can see that point, but my ex and I learned many things still in the early years of our separation.  I think we still learn from each other when we meet- usually with one of our daughters - about once every 18 months.  It will be shorter this time.  My husband and I had lunch at her home with my long lost daughter in December and should meet again later this month at the 100th birthday of a friend.

Those couples who do stay together through transition are twice blessed, IMHO.  It isn't easy but those who do learn a lot about caring for thermselves and caring for their loved one(s).  It takes a lot of work and a willingness to 'rush slowly.'

Robyn

[born2learn]

Im not sure how to a person with relationship that transgender would go through cause i never start a relationship with anyone till i know for sure who im. Now that i go to change i want to start a relationship so it a new start for me. So far me and my gf doing great. ofcourse i feel very lucky to have someone very understand to support and love me the way she did.