Hello again.
While I could continue this discussion with you (Stephanie) in a PM, your reading of my post was was well taken and your response kindly so that I feel any further discussion could be of value to others in the future; so I respond here instead.
Based on your statement I glean the following information:
- You do not appear to believe in a spectrum of gender identity, and stand by a polar male/female identity structure.
- You say that crossdressing is a learned behavior (according to several articles).
If these statements are true, then there is no reality to being genderqueer or a spectrum of gender identity, and that crossdressers technically do not fall under the umbrella term TRANSGENDER as is defined on this site's wiki.
I don't think I would be alone in desiring your expanded view on these topics. I would enjoy further discussion, but in order for it to have relevance I need to better understand how you perceive these thoughts.
I appreciate your further clarification regarding therapy as to how it would relate to behavior modification. The waters were a bit murky, but I still find them cloudy. Thank you for not taking my post in a bad way. I understand that you meant and mean no ill will by your statement, and perhaps that is why it struck me so wrong, because as an offhand comment especially, it has the potential to be quite inflammatory and elitist. I have begun a whole new series of self questioning, attempting to take your comments at face value for the entire day.
This is the type of discussion that can help us all better understand ourselves and our community. I look forward to further insight.
Posted at: 2006.04.24, 03:05:50
Okay, Stephanie I hope you read this extension of my previous post before proceeding.
I have spent some time on the wiki, as it seemed a reasonable knowledgebase to draw from for this discussion..
I see the area for confusion now. Drawing any comparison to a crossdressing person and a transsexual is not really possible.
According to the definitions in the wiki I believe that comparing crossdressing and transsexualism is like comparing the act of driving a car to the need in modern society to own and operate a car.
By this new understanding your statement regarding therapy IS accurate, but irrelevant to the point that many people have made throughout the forum, and that I took such offense to.
What is actually at discussion here are the concepts of gender identity. In reviewing the definition for a crossdresser, I suggest that there is no connection to ->-bleeped-<- at all, "...cross-dressing denotes an action or a behavior, without attributing or proposing causes for that behavior. Some people automatically connect any cross-dressing behavior to gender dysphoria...."
Also according to the wiki, "Cross-dressing is the act of wearing the clothing of another gender for whatever reason."
Thus pre-op transsexuals ARE cross-dressing. And I would conclude that cross-dressing is indeed an "activity" or "behavior" that both transgendered and non-trans people alike may engage in irrespective of motive.
Based on this information I would then say that the category "Crossdresser Talk" is inappropriately placed in Community Conversation and should be repositioned as a child-board of the "Transgender Talk" under the revised heading of "Crossdressing" .
AND that the category "Genderqueer" should be renamed to "Genderqueer Talk" and moved as a top-level topic in Community Conversation.
Why? Because as an activity that the entire transgender community engages in, crossdressing is something relevant to most of the entire transgender community at large.
And all conversations previously thought of as crossdressing talk, that involved only how to type advice should then be moved appropriately to the "Help and How-To's" section.
Any relevant conversation in "Crossdresser Talk" discussing gender identity issues should then be moved to "Genderqueer Talk" as that is the real issue being discussed here. A transgendered person does not crossdress to find peace in their current existence, we crossdress only as a reflection of transgendered identity issues, genderqueer and transsexuals alike.
And as for any defense to the "Crossdresser Talk" category and discussing issues that are only relevant to crossdressers, I suggest that these are genderqueer issues, and not crossdressing issues at all.
Yes, I am saying that AL is not necessarily a crossdresser in the way that the word has been being used. He is genderqueer.
AL is definitely a crossdresser, and so is every pre-op transexual.
Thus to bring some continuity to our potential conversation Stephanie, your statement regarding behavior as it relates to a crossdresser would be true, but only as applied to those crossdressing for sexual or fetishistic reasons. But would not apply to most of the people active on this forum, where I see people seeking comfort, help, and support with gender related issues, that happen to include the act of crossdressing.
Now, I will REALLY appreciate your comments, and may even suggest creating a new topic for this discussion.
