Help me decide if i need FFS, was read today... it was so disheartning

[seldom]

I will say its probably a good idea to get FFS.  Yes...its your nose first and foremost.  Makeup is not going to help that.  My advice is go in for a consult. 

As far as being read, judging by the way you look now, it is going to happen.

[Kate]

Is there any hope for me passing?

Of course there is.

Look, most of us go through this "I know I'll never pass without FFS!" phase in the beginning. Early in HRT is a rough time, we're so anxious to see signs of change, so anxious to get OUT THERE... and yet terrified it's never going to happen for us. We start contingency planning for the worst case. Something to keep our hope alive. Nothing wrong with that.

I said the same thing at my first support group. And they all laughed at me. They LAUGHED at me! I was SO mad that they weren't taking me seriously. They just smiled knowingly and said, "we're not laughing AT you. It's just that we all sat there once and said the same thing. It happens every time we get someone new."

You have to keep in mind that everyone here is wrestling with their own self-acceptance issues. This isn't exactly an objective an unbiased audience you're polling. Many of the responses are going to be reflections of their own worries and concerns being projected upon you. Take everything with a grain of salt.

The general rule is to give HRT at LEAST a year... though two is more fair. If you're still being sirred every day, then OK... maybe FFS would make life easier. But two months into HRT is NOTHING. You have a TON of changes coming your way. Contingency plans certainly helped me deal too, but really... consider giving HRT a chance to work it's magic.

~Kate~

EDIT: incidentally, you look great to me NOW. I saw your picture and just assumed you were a year or more into HRT. That you look like this NOW is just amazing. I know I'm contradicting my "don't pay too much attention to what people say:" rule, lol, but I don't think you have anything to worry about

[Just Mandy]

The general rule is to give HRT at LEAST a year... though two is more fair. If you're still being sirred every day, then OK... maybe FFS would make life easier. But two months into HRT is NOTHING. You have a TON of changes coming your way. Contingency plans certainly helped me deal too, but really... consider giving HRT a chance to work it's magic.

~Kate~

EDIT: incidentally, you look great to me NOW. I saw your picture and just assumed you were a year or more into HRT. That you look like this NOW is just amazing. I know I'm contradicting my "don't pay too much attention to what people say:" rule, lol, but I don't think you have anything to worry about

Kate, lol, you would not believe me if I posted my boy picture from 3 months ago. In some ways the changes have been amazing
to me but mostly I still see that ugly guy staring back especially in the mirror because I can look at all the angles. I know that
hair removal will help me get past a lot of that. I'm so excited to think that HRT will just help me get better and better. My thoughts
after reading this are that it scares me that I may not have my hair removal done and be even more feminine looking to the point of
not being able to pull off boy mode.

Posted on: March 21, 2008, 08:42:24 AM

I will say its probably a good idea to get FFS.  Yes...its your nose first and foremost.  Makeup is not going to help that.  My advice is go in for a consult. 

As far as being read, judging by the way you look now, it is going to happen.

Thanks Amy, that's what I see too, other than a nose what is my most boyish feature?

[Alyssa M.]

I think there's a lot you can do before thinking about surgury. Electrolysis is one. Wait-and-see on the HRT is another. Also messing around with makeup as well, maybe even trying different hair styles to see what works best.

But I think what might actually help the most is simply changing your posture. You seem a little hunched in these pictures, maybe a little tense. Relax and carry your head high and your shoulders back more. That's what people see first, after all.

[tekla]

I find all that very hard to say based on one picture.

[mickiejr1815]

here's the one thing, everyone keeps forgetting tho. Amanda maybe you didn't get read!! you said he was african american correct? someone else on here posted that that really is the test of how you pass go out to the african american community. they have a lot of women who look just like men. i really don't think you got read at all. what i really think happened is he saw a pretty blonde woman he was interested in and he didn't really know how to go about it. a similar situation did happen to me a few months ago. i was out somewhere and i had my son with me and thought no one was behind me( i was dressed almost completely male( my jeans being skinny legged). the next thing i know there was this black guy literally falling up the stairs to open the door for me. he was like "i'll get that for you sweetie," inside i was laughing so hard it wasn't funny. one because he fell up the stairs, and two he thought i was a girl i guess dressed in men's clothes. i thought i would share my opinion. and yeah i've seen so many women come in to work with more facial hair than some men do, my cat's vet has more facial hair than i do, i use to want it so bad when i was younger, now i am soooo glad it's pretty much not noticeable and i would love to keep it that way.

i think you look just fine just the way you are, but of course i'm not one of those girls that's real big on plastic surgery either.

Best Wishes,
Mickie

[Just Mandy]

I guess that is possible Mickie, he was very friendly and had a big smile on his face. It would be great if that was
the case. Someone else told me I needed to prepare myself to start getting hit on a lot. I can't imagine how
I'm going to react to that    That may have been all this was. He saw what he thought was a pretty girl
and just wanted to say hi. I guess I was just thinking the worst.

Alyssa, I do have bad posture sometimes I try to think shoulders back a lot, there is so much to remember.

here's the one thing, everyone keeps forgetting tho. Amanda maybe you didn't get read!! you said he was african american correct? someone else on here posted that that really is the test of how you pass go out to the african american community. they have a lot of women who look just like men. i really don't think you got read at all. what i really think happened is he saw a pretty blonde woman he was interested in and he didn't really know how to go about it. a similar situation did happen to me a few months ago. i was out somewhere and i had my son with me and thought no one was behind me( i was dressed almost completely male( my jeans being skinny legged). the next thing i know there was this black guy literally falling up the stairs to open the door for me. he was like "i'll get that for you sweetie," inside i was laughing so hard it wasn't funny. one because he fell up the stairs, and two he thought i was a girl i guess dressed in men's clothes. i thought i would share my opinion. and yeah i've seen so many women come in to work with more facial hair than some men do, my cat's vet has more facial hair than i do, i use to want it so bad when i was younger, now i am soooo glad it's pretty much not noticeable and i would love to keep it that way.

i think you look just fine just the way you are, but of course i'm not one of those girls that's real big on plastic surgery either.

Best Wishes,
Mickie

[buddhascamera]

I also have "posture" issues, but I keep realizing they are largely about old feelings of hiding / protecting my body.
a lot of that is gender related, but not all.

I do find that as I transition more (close to 3 yrs this time for living as male 24/7) I am able to have times, hours, parts of days, where my posture is naturally much better.  Forcing the changes didn't help.  FOR Me, which may not be true for you, I have gotten lots of good help by going to trans sensitive chiropractors and bodyworkers (I used to be a massage therapist and yogic breath worker, yeah, with bad posture  )
Anyways, I truly think that the spine often holds trauma and tension for many reasons.  Especially the pattern of flight or fight, which can happen due to stress around gender, life, car accidents, abuse experienced as a child or an adult, that pattern stays in the spine, and is very much part of why I haven't had great posture.  The more I heal, and grieve, and release old traumas from cellular memory, and, perhaps most importantly, feel loved and admired for my real self, the more I stand up straighter at least a lot of the time.

I know there is so much to pay for, and it is an insanely vulnerable thing to get massage / bodywork during early transition (really, I know, I used to teach all those things mentioned, and still ran into deep fear / terror going for some of my sessions.....it was really hard to let my changing, vulnerable body be touched sometimes).

I wish you all the best.  I think the more you can relax, and soften in your body, the more extra beautiful you will become.  I think you are pretty already.   Best of luck.
Joseph

[Beyond]

FFS is an amazingly personal decision.  It frankly doesn't matter what other people think.  As a matter of fact I think it just makes the whole decision making process more confusing.  You need to get 5 good pictures of yourself:

Right profile

Turned 45 degrees (halfway) to the right.

Straight on.

Turned 45 degrees (halfway) to the left.

Left profile


Also these pictures MUST be done with your hair pulled back so you can see everything.


Now YOU evaluate the pictures and decide what needs to be changed.  The areas of most concern that we as a population to look at are:


Hairline: A scalp advancement could improve this.

Forehead/Brow: Some people overlook this area, but results can be dramatic.

Cheeks: Do you need implants?  My philosophy is that the cheeks will automatically look better once other issues are dealt with.

Nose: You're obviously already concerned about that.

Distance between nose and upper lip.

Lips themselves: Do you desire enhancement?

Chin: Do you have a cleft?  Does it have to be brought forward?  Back?

Jaw: Does the jaw flare a lot?  Is it just plain huge?

Ears: Don't forget them.  Some people need to have their ears laid back.

Adam's Apple: Do you need it shaved?


I REFUSE to give you feedback on your current (or future) pics.  This is a personal choice.  My only advice is that you don't do this piecemeal.  If you're going to do more than one procedure, do them at the same time.

[cindybc]

Hi Amanda, as for guys hitting on you just carry a big stick in your purse.  I love it when I get the attention from the guys, hey how much longer will it last at 62 anyway? Sure just like any other girl regardless of age I enjoy playing the girly games like winking at some guy. From whence I came from I can get on my knees and  kiss Mommy earth that I'm still here. Fear not the intergalactic granny is here!!!

Cindy

[Just Mandy]

I wish you all the best.  I think the more you can relax, and soften in your body, the more extra beautiful you will become.  I think you are pretty already.   Best of luck.
Joseph

Awww, thank you Joseph, you're a sweetie, and thanks for the tips

Beyond, thank you too, that is very good info and I'll take some pictures and try it.

Hi Amanda, as for guys hitting on you just carry a big stick

Cindy... but I'm giving up my big stick, lol, could not resist  it never was that big.

[cindybc]

"Hee, hee, hee." What would life be without a little bit of humor. Heck my stick was never big to start and just before the big chop all they needed was a pair of tweezers to remove the overgrow wart down there.  cheeeeeez I was lucky I didn't have acne down there or they have plucked out the wrong one.

Cindy

[seldom]

Let me be perfectly clear, in my mind you without a doubt need some type of FFS in order not to be read.  Makeup is not going to fix the problems that are there.  Trans boards at times can be way to nice.  I say, it is better to be honest then nice, especially on a board section about FFS and the issues of being read.  If being read is an issue to you and your goal is assimilation, seek out a good surgeon.  I will leave it at that, because as it stands, you are not in my mind passable. 

Its a personal choice, but it is a choice, do you want to be seen as trans or female, because as it stands you will have occasions where you will be read, and I can tell that just from your pictures.  You without question fall into the category of necessity for assimilation.  Makeup is not going to change your nose or your bone structure, only surgery will.  And in your case, both could use some work.

I think in the case of trans boards people are way to  nice and often lack honesty, when the case is this can be damaging with regards to everything from employment to social assimilation.  I rather have honesty, and in your case if assimilation is your goal seek out FFS, because otherwise somebody will always read you, no matter how much makeup or how long you are on hormones.

[cindybc]

I'm so excited to think that HRT will just help me get better and better. My thoughts
after reading this are that it scares me that I may not have my hair removal done and be even more feminine looking to the point of
not being able to pull off boy mode.

I love this paragraph.

Hi Amanda hon, give HRT a few more months to do it's work and I will tell ya, if we were both decided to do some sky diving and jumped out of a plane as girls, would we not still be girls when we landed. No there is no going back, and I guarantee you, you will not have any desire to. You may get some results in as early as three more months where you will feel and see a softening of your facial skin.

Cindy

[Lori]

The general rule is to give HRT at LEAST a year... though two is more fair. If you're still being sirred every day, then OK... maybe FFS would make life easier. But two months into HRT is NOTHING. You have a TON of changes coming your way. Contingency plans certainly helped me deal too, but really... consider giving HRT a chance to work it's magic.

Ditto. If you look this good after two months..you have no worries.
I don't know of any women that wouldn't want to change 1 thing...and who knows...maybe you will still want it. You won't really know until enough time has passed with HRT.

[Just Mandy]

Let me be perfectly clear, in my mind you without a doubt need some type of FFS in order not to be read.  Makeup is not going to fix the problems that are there.  Trans boards at times can be way to nice.  I say, it is better to be honest then nice, especially on a board section about FFS and the issues of being read.  If being read is an issue to you and your goal is assimilation, seek out a good surgeon.  I will leave it at that, because as it stands, you are not in my mind passable. 

Its a personal choice, but it is a choice, do you want to be seen as trans or female, because as it stands you will have occasions where you will be read, and I can tell that just from your pictures.  You without question fall into the category of necessity for assimilation.  Makeup is not going to change your nose or your bone structure, only surgery will.  And in your case, both could use some work.

I think in the case of trans boards people are way to  nice and often lack honesty, when the case is this can be damaging with regards to everything from employment to social assimilation.  I rather have honesty, and in your case if assimilation is your goal seek out FFS, because otherwise somebody will always read you, no matter how much makeup or how long you are on hormones.

Hi Amy, I really do appreciate your honesty. I KNOW I need nose work. I've always hated it. And cost wise the nose is not a
great dea of money. But what else do you see? Would cheek implants help. I think my eyes and forehead are fine. Maybe make
my chin less square? I know everyone is being nice when they tell me I look great for two months HRT (and don't get me wrong...
I treasure those comments) but I really want to get rid of all the male markers. So any advise anyone has is welcome and
not going to hurt my feelings or even make me sad, I know I'm a work in progress.

Does anyone think that HRT will really change that much more? Will it mostly be in the cheek area and fuller face overall?

I've been able to set aside some money for this next year and my plans are the nose and laser for my facial hair. I hate to
do the nose without doing something to the cheeks becuase I've been told it would be a perfect time to do it. And I really
don't want to wait a year to see what HRT does before I have the nose fixed because I know it's not going to do squat for
my nose. I've also been told that chin work could be done at the same time.

I hate to appear so shallow everyone, but passing is a very important thing for me. Being more attractive would be nice but
I'd settle for passing. And apparently I'm not there yet.

Amanda

Posted on: March 30, 2008, 03:21:10 PM

The general rule is to give HRT at LEAST a year... though two is more fair. If you're still being sirred every day, then OK... maybe FFS would make life easier. But two months into HRT is NOTHING. You have a TON of changes coming your way. Contingency plans certainly helped me deal too, but really... consider giving HRT a chance to work it's magic.

Ditto. If you look this good after two months..you have no worries.
I don't know of any women that wouldn't want to change 1 thing...and who knows...maybe you will still want it. You won't really know until enough time has passed with HRT.

Thank you so much Lori! 

I know what you are saying about waiting but there are some things that just are not going to change and
I wish I had the will power to wait but I can't live 12 more months with my nose

Posted on: March 30, 2008, 03:24:35 PM

I'm so excited to think that HRT will just help me get better and better. My thoughts
after reading this are that it scares me that I may not have my hair removal done and be even more feminine looking to the point of
not being able to pull off boy mode.

I love this paragraph.

Hi Amanda hon, give HRT a few more months to do it's work and I will tell ya, if we were both decided to do some sky diving and jumped out of a plane as girls, would we not still be girls when we landed. No there is no going back, and I guarantee you, you will not have any desire to. You may get some results in as early as three more months where you will feel and see a softening of your facial skin.

Cindy

Thanks Cindy, it seems like time is standing still these days. I guess everyone goes through this, looking for changes, not seeing
and and wanting to take steps to "fix things".

[cindybc]

Hi Amanda, your quite right when I started out I was wishing I had the money to do some FFS but I didn't, I needed the money for other things, such as electrolysis and such. Ok that was eight years ago, and for my age I would say that the results turned out pretty good.
8 years ago when I started

Two years ago

My latest photo


Cindy

[Just Mandy]

HRT is amazing, your chin even looks different. Looking good

[Kate]

Does anyone think that HRT will really change that much more?

Yes. Much more. Two YEARS for the major changes. Two months is nothing.

I hate to appear so shallow everyone, but passing is a very important thing for me. Being more attactive would be nice but
I'd settle for passing. And apparantly I'm not there yet.

Everyone develops at different rates. I was nowhere near passable at only 2 months HRT. 7-9 months was when people finally began giving me the "huh?" look whenever I'd use my male name.

~Kate~

[cindybc]

Yes, it took me four years going on five years but that was because of age. I got all the parts I want and people seem to not mind my, I believe, a kind enough looking face. Therefor I pay homage and kneel before the Estrogen god and bow while giving thanks for the gifts the tin gods have brought this old bird. 

Cindy