Help me decide if i need FFS, was read today... it was so disheartning

[Just Mandy]

Do you have a link for Dr Chettawut? I've not heard of him before.

You are making great progress Amanda

Thank you Some days I can feel it, some days I can't

Amanda

[buttercup]

Here is the link, http://www.chet-plasticsurgery.com/

the prices quoted are going up in September, I'm trying to go for end of June or 
beginning July.

Honestly Amanda, your appearance is already incredibly feminine! 

[Just Mandy]

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

Honestly Amanda, your appearance is already incredibly feminine!

You know I feel like I need to thank everyone for each compliment, but it feels so
insignifcant to just say "thank you" because each compliment does so much more
for me and my self esteem than a simple "thank you". I may have said something
like this before but each one builds up what GID chipped away at all my life. Sorry
if I'm being corney... just blame it on the hormones.

Thank you Buttercup

Amanda

[cindybc]

Hi Amanda cherish those feelings they are precious. every improvement upon not only the physical but the spiritual as well will be what will reveal to you what you are within.

Cindy 

[April221]

What has done the most for me, is make-up, properly applied. This wasn't something that I learned entirely on my own, or with the help of other girls. I sat down with a cosmetologist, who worked out the best colors, my own palette, for day, for night, and for the different seasons. Without make-up, my features are unmistakeably masculine, but properly applied make-up redefines and visually re contours my face to give it a feminine edge. The same with hair. It was a professional who chose a hair piece  that  gives me the correct look for a woman with my shape face and also my age. I'm 58 years old, and am very comfortable with the look of a 58 year old woman. I'm on one hand attractive, and on the other, I don't attract a lot of attention. People don't look at a 58 year old woman as closely as someone who is, let's say, 28 years old ......

Sorry April but "make-up, properly applied" just doesn't rock my boat !

I need to pass, look attractive "straight out of bed", not after tedious application of make up.  Could be a guy sleeping next to me .... and I have enough issues de-tangling my hair  !

Most days I wear no make-up other than a dab of mascara and lip gloss if I'm going out shopping .... just maybe concealer and some power if I'm recovering from a heavy night out !

Luv

Laura x

As I said in my post, I have only been on HRT for 3 months. I believe that FOR MYSELF, no RESPONSIBLE decision concerning FFS can be made at this early stage in transition. I very clearly state this, as well as the fact that electro also has an effect on the facial look. At my age, the benefits of HRT will often take longer and be less noticeable than someone much younger, so it remains to be seen what the final result may be. Or what would be right for me.

For me, self acceptance is not an issue. I like who I am, and I've been April since the age of 6. The purpose of my transition, is to live out my life, as myself, as April, and to make it easier for people who do not know me to see and to relate to me as I truly am. For me, being true to myself is the priority. I'm not male; but I'm not a genetic woman either, and I'm alright with that. I'm a TS woman, and even though if I could choose, I would rather be a genetic female-or male, rather than TS. But I am TS, and I like myself. I have many very real, very tangible achievements in my life, and I have accomplished a great deal as a person.

I don't need to pass in order to feel good about myself, and my orientation is such that I would most likely wake up with another woman in my bed, rather than a man. What I wonder about with FFS, is if I'm going too close to another kind of "box," going from the "male box" to the "female box." FOR ME, the NEED to pass would create more problems than I'd want to deal with.

Laura, while I fully understand and respect anyone's decision for FFS, and know personally several people who have had various procedures, I'm not sure, especially at the point in transition where I'm at, whether or not FFS would be in line with the direction that I want to go, or how much FFS would be needed. My therapist has said that I may not need FFS to pass, and my socal presentation is excellent. With a hat, I'm usually read as female if my face isn't clearly seen. We are all different, and we all have different goals and dreams. Being passable does make it easier to live in society, and we'd all like to be beautiful. I just want to be myself, and if I can be comfortable without FFS, I won't pursue it. If I feel as if I would really gain from it, I'll look into it, but this early in transition is not the time for me to make that decision.

[Laura Eva B]

For FFS to work you need to be young, pretty and passable to start with. I've honestly never seen a true miracle transformation !

Laura, I have to ask because... well that's just the way I am. Are you saying that I should forego the FFS
because I'm older, ugly and not passable? That was the implication I got from your comment but it did not jive with the rest of the post. I may just be reading it wrong but I value everyone's opinion and just want to understand what
you're saying.
Amanda

Amanda,

All I was trying to say was that you shouldn't invest too much expectation in the results of FFS, or you're likely to end up very disappointed .... good FFS will make you prettier but it will rarely make you 100% passable if you weren't that before !

The "miracle transformations" always seem to be relative youngsters (the ones who crop up in all the pics !), many older TS who go for the aggressive full works end up looking a bit like "Barbie" caricatures of women if you know what I mean, they just don't look right, and the fact that they've had surgery is often very obvious.

Go for the least surgery you need and see it as an "aid", not the "solution". 

The solution comes with time, the most convincing TS women I've seen across all age groups are those that have never gone near the surgeon's knife, but who have lived many years as women, and are 100% comfortable and relaxed about who they are.

I was planning full blown FFS before I transitioned full time, and I'm so glad I didn't as now I'm in a far better position to really judge what I need, and its likely to be really minor stuff, and some skin work to turn back the years ....

(P.S. that stuff about buying "boy's clothes" .... really ? .... I'd assumed you were recently full time, as I thought judging from the photos you were at that point, leastwise going by your appearance :-) .... )

Oh .... and the difference 2 years HRT / laser can make ....
http://uk.geocities.com/laura_eva_b/Before_and_After.jpg  !!!

Laura x


Posted on: April 14, 2008, 06:50:52 PM

With a hat, I'm usually read as female if my face isn't clearly seen.

We are all different, and we all have different goals and dreams. Being passable does make it easier to live in society, and we'd all like to be beautiful. I just want to be myself, and if I can be comfortable without FFS, I won't pursue it. If I feel as if I would really gain from it, I'll look into it, but this early in transition is not the time for me to make that decision.

Was that first sentence a subtle joke ?

But good for you April .... we all need to find a happy balance in our lives and find a "best compromise" ....

As they say "fools rush in" !

Laura x

[April221]

For FFS to work you need to be young, pretty and passable to start with. I've honestly never seen a true miracle transformation !

Laura, I have to ask because... well that's just the way I am. Are you saying that I should forego the FFS
because I'm older, ugly and not passable? That was the implication I got from your comment but it did not jive with the rest of the post. I may just be reading it wrong but I value everyone's opinion and just want to understand what
you're saying.
Amanda

Amanda,

All I was trying to say was that you shouldn't invest too much expectation in the results of FFS, or you're likely to end up very disappointed .... good FFS will make you prettier but it will rarely make you 100% passable if you weren't that before !

The "miracle transformations" always seem to be relative youngsters (the ones who crop up in all the pics !), many older TS who go for the aggressive full works end up looking a bit like "Barbie" caricatures of women if you know what I mean, they just don't look right, and the fact that they've had surgery is often very obvious.

Go for the least surgery you need and see it as an "aid", not the "solution". 

The solution comes with time, the most convincing TS women I've seen across all age groups are those that have never gone near the surgeon's knife, but who have lived many years as women, and are 100% comfortable and relaxed about who they are.

I was planning full blown FFS before I transitioned full time, and I'm so glad I didn't as now I'm in a far better position to really judge what I need, and its likely to be really minor stuff, and some skin work to turn back the years ....

(P.S. that stuff about buying "boy's clothes" .... really ? .... I'd assumed you were recently full time, as I thought judging from the photos you were at that point, leastwise going by your appearance :-) .... )

Oh .... and the difference 2 years HRT / laser can make ....
http://uk.geocities.com/laura_eva_b/Before_and_After.jpg  !!!

Laura x


Posted on: April 14, 2008, 06:50:52 PM

As they say "fools rush in" !

Laura x

As they say "fools rush in" !
That's very true, and they often encourage others to follow.

[Suzy]

I agree with Laura Eve.  Don't lose your distinctiveness.  FFS should do just that, feminize you, not turn you into a  caricature. You are already pretty and you will be much more passable if you look like an individual.  As for me, I am waiting to see how things develop, and just see what needs to be adjusted.  I have no plans for the big WORKS packages.

Best of luck, pretty girl.

Kristi

[Just Mandy]

I was planning full blown FFS before I transitioned full time, and I'm so glad I didn't as now I'm in a far better position to really judge what I need, and its likely to be really minor stuff, and some skin work to turn back the years ....

Thanks Laura, I guess that is what I'm leaning toward with the exception of my nose. I think that
if I can make that more feminine it will really help my looks. I can't decide on the chin work though I
may see what the surgeons think I need. But I don't see myself going for the works.... tonight anyway

Your before and after pics that I assume are just HRT cahnges are amazing

(P.S. that stuff about buying "boy's clothes" .... really ? .... I'd assumed you were recently full time, as I thought judging from the photos you were at that point, leastwise going by your appearance :-) .... )

I wish I was at that point but I simply don't have the confidence in my appearance yet to do it yet and I'm just not
ready in other areas of my life.  I've only been on HRT for about three months now, I just did not expect to be
were I am at this point and I'm so unprepared. So I'm going to see what the next couple of months bring in the
way of changes. I'm hoping that maybe some of the changes will slow down so I can stretch things out and
do some of the things I need to do (like hair removal) before I'm full time.

I agree with Laura Eve.  Don't lose your distinctiveness.  FFS should do just that, feminize you, not turn you into a  caricature. You are already pretty and you will be much more passable if you look like an individual.  As for me, I am waiting to see how things develop, and just see what needs to be adjusted.  I have no plans for the big WORKS packages.

Best of luck, pretty girl.

I know what your saying Kristi, I do not want to look like I had surgery.

I think someone here had posted a link to Cindy Jackson's website:
http://www.cindyjackson.com/my_cosmetic_surgery2.php

She is not TS but her before pics are not far from what some of us look like pre FFS and I think she looks
great now and very natural. She has a book that talks alot about her surgeries that I may order.

Thank you Kristi

Amanda

[anne_indy]

I like the comments of Laura and Kristi. I want to be attractive but want to look like myself, and tbh can't afford the high cost of full FFS.

[Just Mandy]

I like the comments of Laura and Kristi. I want to be attractive but want to look like myself, and tbh can't afford the high cost of full FFS.

I agree it makes a lot of sense... and I could do a lot with the money I save. Every one I think is saying
to wait for HRT changes and I'm leaning toward that. But like I said I think I REALLY need to
fix my nose, but that is fairly simple and has a very short recovery.

[carol_w]

Just don't let the doctor botch it like he did with (actress) Jennifer Grey.

Carol

[Kate]

But like I said I think I REALLY need to fix my nose, but that is fairly simple and has a very short recovery.

Keep in mind I've heard some FFS surgeons say that it should all be done at the same time, so they can "balance" the changes to the nose with the other changes (brow, etc.).

~Kate~

[NicholeW.]

Is the idea that you might need FFS based solely on being read and the sense that it was things about your face that you don't like that caused that? If so, maybe you should wait, or consult with someone like Dr. Spiegel in Boston who does what Kristi suggested -- feminizes a male face to help you look like you might have without the effects of the T.

Of course, as for being read, there are reasons for that other than one's looks. How do you comport yourself? How much 'space' do you take up? How do you 'hold' your shoulders. How narrow or wide are they, your shoulders. Speech tone and sound and inflection. Hands that can easily palm a basketball? All sorts of 'keys.' and your nose or brow or mouth may not be what's doing the 'keying.'

To imagine that FFS is going to suddenly make someone 100% passable seems like a rather short-sighted and often false conclusion.

If, oth, FFS is going to make you more comfortable with yourself, help you accept yourself, then by all means you should have it when you can afford it. About 90% of 'passing' is in your own mind and how that plays out in your 'presentation.' Anything that eases your own sense of self is very likely to be helpful. Anything that doesn't is likely to be harmful.

Nichole

[Just Mandy]

Keep in mind I've heard some FFS surgeons say that it should all be done at the same time, so they can "balance" the changes to the nose with the other changes (brow, etc.)

I've read that as well... but I really don't see me going for the "works" ever. I really think I'll be happy with just the nose
maybe some chin work but I could be wrong.

You know I'm really going by what you guys tell me and I think everyone (with an exception or two) has said that
I am passable and even pretty. So if I need drastic help... please tell me now If not I'm hoping that a feminine
nose and maybe doing something with the chin is going to make me see it. And HRT will not ever change my
nose so I feel safe doing that now.

Is the idea that you might need FFS based solely on being read and the sense that it was things about your face that you don't like that caused that? If so, maybe you should wait, or consult with someone like Dr. Spiegel in Boston who does what Kristi suggested -- feminines a male face to help you look like you might have without the effects of the T.

I don't think I'm doing it because I was read, I really think I'm doing for me, so that when I look into the mirror I'm happy,
and at that point if I'm still read so be it. I think I can deal with that, maybe. My plan this hour of this day is to improve
the nose and then let HRT work for a while. If in a year or two I'm not happy then I can go for more or
even "the works". Before I decide for sure though I'm going to do more research and talk to more FFS surgeons.

Of course, as for being read, there are reasons for that other than one's looks. How do you comport yourself? How much 'space' do you take up? How do you 'hold' your shoulders. How narrow or wide are they, your shoulders. Speech tone and sound and inflection. Hands that can easily palm a basketball? All sorts of 'keys.' and your nose or brow or mouth may not be what's doing the 'keying.'

Yea, I do get that, I really get that... it's much more than what my face looks like. But I think until I see a passable woman in the
mirror no one else will regardless if that is the problem or not. So for me the first step is to resolve the issues in my own head
and after that deal with all the rest.

If, oth, FFS is going to make you more comfortable with yourself, help you accept yourself, then by all means you should have it when you can afford it. About 90% of 'passing' is in your own mind and how that plays out in your 'presentation.' Anything that eases your own sense of self is very likely to be helpful. Anything that doesn't is likely to be harmful.

Opps... yea I guess I should read all the post first before responding... but that is exactly how I feel. I know it's a mental
thing with me and if I can get past this I'll be fine but right now I just cannot see a woman in the mirror. Don't get me wrong...
what I do see is SO much better than that ugly guy... and it makes me so happy, but I'm still not 100% there yet.

Thank you guys

Amanda

[samanthawhalen]

Amanda, before you run away from my post I want to first say that you are pretty.  Your eyes are very beautiful!

Now the bad parts, and some questions.  Is that your real hair?  For whatever reason the color does not match your complexion.  The other question I have is, is that an Adam's Apple I see?

Some other observations I have made are:

- from the nose up you are VERY PRETTY, below the nose, running horizontally, there are problems:
(a) your chin needs a reduction
(b) you need a "slight" trache shave
(c) you need electrolysis (as you already know)

Also, even with the way you are sitting in the photo, it looks like you have no boobs..your back is too arched.  Like the others here are suggesting, WALK WITH CONFIDENCE!

Based on the one picture I am looking at, I'd spend money in the following order:

- chin reduction (hate to be cruel, but it reminds me of Michael Jackson's chin)
- electrolysis (it can be hidden with makeup)
- trache shave (unless you want to wear a choker)

The one thing that I think gave you away was your chin.  Heck, Celine Dion has a HORRIBLE chin and everytime I see her on television all I can focus on is her chin.

Again, from the nose up YOU ... ARE ... HOT!!!!

Aeron

[Just Mandy]

Thanks Aeron... I will never run from constructive criticism ... as yours is.

I don't have a picture on my laptop but I have a picture that I will
post tomorrow... it was retouched by an artist here on susans
and shows what a small change to the chin and nose would do.

I do have horrible posture and I'm only three months on HRT so
my boobies are just getting to an A cup. I think you're ideas are right on the
mark... with the addition of the nose. It's really bad and that picture does not show it.

Again, from the nose up YOU ... ARE ... HOT!!!!

That put a BIG smile on my face... and it's not going away... because I
know I can fix the otehr stuff... thanks SO much

Amanda

[samanthawhalen]

Amanda, unless you have a beak for a nose, DO NOT bother messing with it.  Try this  (I'm sure you have a million times).  cover the part of your pic that is below the nose.  See how beautiful you are?  Now, do the opposite.  See where you need the work?  Just another way of saying what I already said before, but your nose (judging from the one pic I saw) is NOT as bad as some on here say it is.  If you go messing with your nose at this point, you could create far more problems than you already have.  It could suddenly make your lips into problems.  Your ears might look "off".  Even those beautiful eyes might not look as pretty.  The nose is the "center" of the face, so to speak, and you weren't clocked in the center.  Work from the outside, in. 

Aeron

[Case]

Wow Amanda, you truly are beautiful!!!! *sooooo jealous*

You give me something to hope for 

[Just Mandy]

Amanda, unless you have a beak for a nose, DO NOT bother messing with it.  Try this  (I'm sure you have a million times).  cover the part of your pic that is below the nose.  See how beautiful you are?  Now, do the opposite.  See where you need the work?  Just another way of saying what I already said before, but your nose (judging from the one pic I saw) is NOT as bad as some on here say it is.  If you go messing with your nose at this point, you could create far more problems than you already have.  It could suddenly make your lips into problems.  Your ears might look "off".  Even those beautiful eyes might not look as pretty.  The nose is the "center" of the face, so to speak, and you weren't clocked in the center.  Work from the outside, in.

Aeron

Oh... the nose is way past the beak stage Aeron... LOL... but thank you for the kind comments

The people that said it was bad... they saw the other pictures I had up for a while. Thanks for the tip on covering
up parts of the face... that really helps to see what needs work. But I really think the nose needs work and it's
really the easiest to fix and has a very short recovery.

Here is a before and after.... I really hesitated posting the BEFORE again because the AFTER REALLY makes the BEFORE look SO
horrible. I had no idea how bad it was until I saw the AFTER. The nose, chin, upper lip and forehead were changed. I
think what helped the most was the chin and nose. The AFTER makes the BEFORE forehead LOOK so male but...
I think a lot of that is just lighting in this picture... in the mirror and other pictures it does not seem bad at all and
I'm really critical of that area. This is also one of my worst pictures as far as looking like a guy... I put it up initially
because it was so bad and I wanted good input on what I needed to change. The after picture looks very
much like my sister and my mom when she was young.

After seeing these pictures I really think I'd be very happy with the nose and minor chin work. I think the
changes to the chin are very minor and easily doable. I have no idea if the nose is... I know surgeons can't work
miracles but even a small reduction will help a lot in my opinion.

Photo removed for privacy

I have to give many thanks to Myanne...
she is a doll and did this for me. She is a very talented 3d digital artist and you can see more of her wonderful
work at her web site: http://mychelle-anne-daigle.com/. I think everyone should tell
her it's OK to charge for doing virtual FFS for people... she does not want to accept payment but I
think it's well worth whatever she wants to charge.

I had loaded the before picture on HotOrNot.com... as a test... lol... it was a painful test and I
was rated 8.2. If anyone is not familiar with that site 8.2 is really low... girls in that range are
not very attractive. So I loaded the new improved after and I scored 9.0 after 600 votes... the
girls that score a 9 on the site are usually somewhat attractive so I felt pretty good. You have
to show some skin or boobs to get much above that so for a head shot only... I'll gladly take a 9.0.

And I'm focusing on the positive... all the people that chose 10. Please don't get me wrong, this is
all from someone that has struggled for her entire life seeing the ugly male face in the mirror... and I'll gladly
take the 8.2... and getting to the 9.0... that makes me smile because I know I can do this now. I know
I can get to the point where I can blend in and be just another girl. I've said it before... I don't have to
be pretty... but I do have to be a passable female and I think I can get close.

pic removed

Wow Amanda, you truly are beautiful!!!! *sooooo jealous*

Thanks Chelsea You might not say that after seeing these pics

Amanda