A list of TS traits from my therapist

[Serenahikaru]

I knew most of that, but oh god, even me sucking at math.

[Carrie Liz]

Okay, the ones about body modesty and self-destructive behavior and not caring about your health or hating pictures/videos I can understand. Those come along with body dysphoria and the resulting low self-esteem. But one of these things is not like the other:

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics

Gender cliches, gender cliches, gender cliches.

The bottom one especially annoys me. Because it's on EVERY single gender identity test. What the hell is this? They just had a post about how we tend to have above-average intelligence, and immerse ourselves in vocational-technical occupations/hobbies, and yet somehow we're supposed to not be good at math? I call bulls*** on this. The last time I checked, being able to do algebra and calculus had nothing to do with whether you should have a penis or not. Or maybe the girls in my math club didn't get that memo that they're supposed to be FtMs according to online gender tests.

This is why I hate tests like this. There's always gender cliches involved. This is why radical feminists hate us, girls... we're basically reinforcing cultural gender norms just to prove to ourselves that we're really girls.

You don't need it. If you're someone who genuinely doesn't know if they're trans or not, maybe, but the vast majority of us already know that we're trans (even if we say we don't, or don't recognize those thoughts as being trans thoughts,) and are just using these tests to convince ourselves further. And our culture does this too. Women will over-report their abilities to read people's emotions, and underplay their abilities in math and science, just because culture values these things in femininity. Just like men will over-report their abilities in strength and technical skills, but under-report their abilities to discern emotions. And in both cases, the test isn't actually telling them anything. They're just trying to reinforce their maleness/femaleness.

Here's a better test:
(lists "female" interests)
(lists "male" interests)
Q: Are you hoping that you'll score with more female-typical results, or are you hoping you'll score with more male-typical results?
A: If you are hoping to score more female-typical results, your gender identity is probably female. If you're hoping to score more male-typical results, your gender identity is probably male. (Or, if you are hoping to score with transgender-typical results, you're probably trans.)

They've done studies which showed that the reason why women score higher than men on emotion-guessing tests is because the test is prefaced as a "gender test." So women know that they're supposed to score better, and therefore they focus more because they want a higher score. On tests where these same questions were not prefaced as being "gender tests," women and men scored exactly the same. Same with math. There is SEVERE cultural bias against girls in math, because of tests exactly like this, where we're constantly telling girls that being good in math and science is somehow unfeminine.

Just some feminist theory to chew on.

[OreSama]

I saw this thing on tumblr and thought of this thread- http://transsexual.org/cogiati/index.php?lang=en
It makes me so glad that when I talk to my therapist they understand "I hate having a woman's body, I am not a woman this feels gross," and don't ask stupid questions about my clothing preferences or whatever.

[FalseHybridPrincess]

hhhm most of these traits apply to me, maybe all actually...

and Im especially bad at math , like I dont think anyone here is worse in math than me... :/ awkward but its the truth

[Kova V]

Wow... That's me to a tee. It's like a fortune cookie!
Now let's see if we can make it more fun... "You are bad at math, in bed."
Hmmm, not as funny as I thought it would be...

[Serenahikaru]

hhhm most of these traits apply to me, maybe all actually...

and Im especially bad at math , like I dont think anyone here is worse in math than me... :/ awkward but its the truth

I think I can rival you in being bad at math. XD

[Evelyn K]

I hate math!!!!

[michelle666]

I have had pretty much everything in the list except for the suicidal thoughts.

[katiej]

We often have well above average intelligence

Check and check. 

Regarding the math thing, Carrie is exactly right.  Little girls are steered away from technical or math-related subjects.  Something like 80% of elementary age girls report enjoying math and science, but only 30% of college age women say the same.

[Auroramarianna]

Okay, the ones about body modesty and self-destructive behavior and not caring about your health or hating pictures/videos I can understand. Those come along with body dysphoria and the resulting low self-esteem. But one of these things is not like the other:

Gender cliches, gender cliches, gender cliches.

The bottom one especially annoys me. Because it's on EVERY single gender identity test. What the hell is this? They just had a post about how we tend to have above-average intelligence, and immerse ourselves in vocational-technical occupations/hobbies, and yet somehow we're supposed to not be good at math? I call bulls*** on this. The last time I checked, being able to do algebra and calculus had nothing to do with whether you should have a penis or not. Or maybe the girls in my math club didn't get that memo that they're supposed to be FtMs according to online gender tests.

This is why I hate tests like this. There's always gender cliches involved. This is why radical feminists hate us, girls... we're basically reinforcing cultural gender norms just to prove to ourselves that we're really girls.

You don't need it. If you're someone who genuinely doesn't know if they're trans or not, maybe, but the vast majority of us already know that we're trans (even if we say we don't, or don't recognize those thoughts as being trans thoughts,) and are just using these tests to convince ourselves further. And our culture does this too. Women will over-report their abilities to read people's emotions, and underplay their abilities in math and science, just because culture values these things in femininity. Just like men will over-report their abilities in strength and technical skills, but under-report their abilities to discern emotions. And in both cases, the test isn't actually telling them anything. They're just trying to reinforce their maleness/femaleness.

Here's a better test:
(lists "female" interests)
(lists "male" interests)
Q: Are you hoping that you'll score with more female-typical results, or are you hoping you'll score with more male-typical results?
A: If you are hoping to score more female-typical results, your gender identity is probably female. If you're hoping to score more male-typical results, your gender identity is probably male. (Or, if you are hoping to score with transgender-typical results, you're probably trans.)

They've done studies which showed that the reason why women score higher than men on emotion-guessing tests is because the test is prefaced as a "gender test." So women know that they're supposed to score better, and therefore they focus more because they want a higher score. On tests where these same questions were not prefaced as being "gender tests," women and men scored exactly the same. Same with math. There is SEVERE cultural bias against girls in math, because of tests exactly like this, where we're constantly telling girls that being good in math and science is somehow unfeminine.

Just some feminist theory to chew on.

OMG. You are THE BEST. My thoughts exactly. And yes, I actually am quite cliché and "check" many of the traits in the list, but I don't think it makes me more trans than someone who, say, excels in Math and sports. Gender identity is a total different concept from gender expression or gender roles. And most theories who claim essential differences between men and women are trying to reinforce gender roles and usually have an Agenda. There are indeed brain differences between men and women simply because of the different hormones exposed in puberty, but they are totally totally overrepresented and played by our culture. It all starts with toys. It's amazing how conditioned each sex right after their BITRH, different toys, different treatment, it's no wonder that when grown up, men and women already know how to "behave" according to gender, and APPEAR drastically different from each other, when in fact, many of the differences are statiscally unsignificant.

[Jill F]

Hmm... I was always really good at math and spatial relations.  I also solved Rubik's cube at 12.  My sister was even better at these kinds of things and is about to receive a PhD in Physics.  Some of the other things did not apply to me either, but some did very much.  I wonder how many of these traits apply to cispeople as well for comparison.

I am a firm believer that if you have met one transsexual, you have met one transsexual.  We are snowflakes, some of us flakier than others. 

[katiej]

A PhD in Physics?  That's impressive.  That means she came up with a concept that no one has ever thought of before, and she can prove it to people who don't like to have their stuff moved around.  Good for her! 

[GenTechJ]

Hmm... I was always really good at math and spatial relations.  I also solved Rubik's cube at 12.  My sister was even better at these kinds of things and is about to receive a PhD in Physics.  Some of the other things did not apply to me either, but some did very much.  I wonder how many of these traits apply to cispeople as well for comparison.

I am a firm believer that if you have met one transsexual, you have met one transsexual.  We are snowflakes, some of us flakier than others. 

The Rubik's Cube thing reminds me of a story from my parents. Apparently I scared them into thinking they had a certified genius on their hands when I brought it out to them solved in 5 minutes around the age of 8. Apparently I've always been very creative in problem solving, because they almost didn't notice that the stickers looked a little off. I peeled off all the stickers and put them where they should go. Out of the box problem solving. Hehe.

[Kyra553]

That list explains my entire life... I have no doubts about myself now. 

[Alaia]

I'm agreeing with Carrie Liz here. Whilst many of the items on that list are applicable there are some that are just stereotypical and utter BS.

As far as the math one, I actually was very good at math back in school. In 5th grade I scored in the top 1% of the nation for my level. In 11th and 12th grade I took AP Calculus, passed both the AB and BC advanced placement exams, and was the teacher's assistant to boot. And for the record, the smartest kids in those calculus classes were girls.

Anyway... I've forgotten most of the math I learned back then, but pick it up quickly enough when needed.

[GenTechJ]

I'm agreeing with Carrie Liz here. Whilst many of the items on that list are applicable there are some that are just stereotypical and utter BS.

As far as the math one, I actually was very good at math back in school. In 5th grade I scored in the top 1% of the nation for my level. In 11th and 12th grade I took AP Calculus, passed both the AB and BC advanced placement exams, and was the teacher's assistant to boot. And for the record, the smartest kids in those calculus classes were girls.

Anyway... I've forgotten most of the math I learned back then, but pick it up quickly enough when needed.

I have to agree, one of my friends not only loves math but she is absolutely amazing at it and has helped me when I get stumped. Note, I'm going to college for computer science and she relies on me for everything computer or tech related. Meanwhile she went for Psychology and is only a few classes from being a Mathematician. We continue to argue who is more intelligent between the two of us. I say her because if she wanted she could have a few degrees already based on all the classes she's taken. She says me because I just pick everything up so quick and easily.

I just don't have the focus and it constantly affects my grades.

[Rachel]

The list describe me pretty well.

I did very well in math in college; however, I had to work my butt off (reason I have no butt).
I had:
Pre-calc
calc I
calc II
calc III
Differential equations.

I went to a state school. I had to take pre-calc, reading and writing in order to matriculate. I was really behind entering college. I needed 136 credits to graduate, all but 20 from science. Many of my classes were 1 and 3 credits. Only the 5 non-science courses were 4 credits (lol).

I love science and reading. I am reading, "what the Dog Saw" and I am working on implementing the coolest technology in our plants that will cut our electric consumption 32% (and the pay me too). Oh, I work with a lot of female licensed engineers and they are brilliant.

[GenTechJ]

The list describe me pretty well.

I did very well in math in college; however, I had to work my butt off (reason I have no butt).
I had:
Pre-calc
calc I
calc II
cals III
Differential equations.

I went to a state school. I had to take pre-calc, reading and writing in order to matriculate. I was really behind entering college. I needed 136 credits to graduate, all but 20 from science. Many of my classes were 1 and 3 credits. Only the 5 non-science courses were 4 credits (lol).

I love science and reading. I am reading, "what the Dog Saw" and I am working on implementing the coolest technology in our plants that will cut our electric consumption 32% (and the pay me too). Oh, I work with a lot of female licensed engineers and they are brilliant.

The extensive list of math classes I need is holding me back from my degree.

Meanwhile my friend in IT calls me sometimes because I modified my XP install, made it able to dualboot with Linux, and hacked a driver file to get updated graphics on a laptop Sony stopped supporting. So of course when I downloaded the official installation files from Nvidia it said my video card was unsupported. Did some research, found out my video card was more than capable of the update, said "Eff that" and modified the driver files to add my card. Updated just fine and had no problems whatsoever.

Note, I still get stumped sometimes and look for help myself. I'm no Mr. Wizard. But sometimes I feel like it when he calls me for help when he runs a server for a pretty large sized independent company.

[Jen72]

For the most part the list does fit me however as stated a few times some things are definitely not really gender related (math/writing)  To be honest and I am doing some guessing from my perspective would wonder how many of us are introverted or at least about some things.  For me I am but reason I say that if we tend to be above average intelligence chance are introverted as a child therefor spent more time thinking and studying and is that really gender specific answer is no.  Maybe there are tendencies but just that tendencies that lead to one gender or the other or the somewhere in between.  All that being said great list and does paint somewhat of a picture of who we are yet really a partial picture.  We are all complicated critters and after all isn't part of being human is to be unique which is so broad but true.  Let this list be a guide yet with understanding its not the written in stone idea either. We are to complex and this issue is way too complex to really ever nail it down to o this person does this must be ..... gender.

[GenTechJ]

For the most part the list does fit me however as stated a few times some things are definitely not really gender related (math/writing)  To be honest and I am doing some guessing from my perspective would wonder how many of us are introverted or at least about some things.  For me I am but reason I say that if we tend to be above average intelligence chance are introverted as a child therefor spent more time thinking and studying and is that really gender specific answer is no.  Maybe there are tendencies but just that tendencies that lead to one gender or the other or the somewhere in between.  All that being said great list and does paint somewhat of a picture of who we are yet really a partial picture.  We are all complicated critters and after all isn't part of being human is to be unique which is so broad but true.  Let this list be a guide yet with understanding its not the written in stone idea either. We are to complex and this issue is way too complex to really ever nail it down to o this person does this must be ..... gender.

Well said. I myself am an introvert, not sure why I'd be more or less intelligent aside from spending more time reading or enjoying my hobbies. I've met some very intelligent extroverts in my time, who bless their hearts feel the need to get me out of the house. They just don't get that introvert isn't the same as anti-social or that I just need the right people to suddenly be an extrovert. The same may not be true of the rest of the ladies and guys on this board. I just know I get anxiety attacks in large crowds, I do enjoy social interactions, but only when I feel I can handle them and typically in small doses. "But you had fun when we took you to the club" is the frequent thing I hear, and yes for a time I was having fun, but then my social anxiety kicked in due to being overwhelmed by so many people and conflicting energies. At which point I'd let someone in the group I was with know that I was going to go wait in the car and that they should all enjoy themselves. No guilt trips, just letting them know where I was and that there was no rush (due to the first night when I disappeared without telling anyone).

But as you said, we are all unique in our likes, dislikes, social interactions, friends, everything. No person is the same, nor should they be treated as such.