A list of TS traits from my therapist

[Janet_Girl]

Surprize, surprize.

I fit most of those listed, but then again we all are special people.


Love
Janet

[noeleena]

hi.... wing wallker.   may be we dont know it.   we are so much alike .like me both male  & female  ....yea....some things yes most no     strange   o well worth a try i can swing both ways neat ...a...now more female ..... oh i know....i am a nut case   love it .   at least  i know .....do others   may be not .....noeleena....
.   

[Wing Walker]

hi.... wing wallker.   may be we dont know it.   we are so much alike .like me both male  & female  ....yea....some things yes most no     strange   o well worth a try i can swing both ways neat ...a...now more female ..... oh i know....i am a nut case   love it .   at least  i know .....do others   may be not .....noeleena....
.   

Hi, Noeleena,

I find it curious that anyone might be sufficiently like me to post about it.  Since I know myself pretty well, please accept my condolences for any areas in which, according to that shopping list of neuroses, we are alike.

I am female but I cannot discard my prior lifetime and its experiences and learning.  I love my transsexuality.  It is a blessing ***to me*** to live two lives, one in each gender, in the same body, in the same lifetime.  I like that --- a whole lot.

Nut cases might have even more fun!  Enjoy!  If I can help you in any regard, please post on the board or send me a pm.

Wing Walker
Enjoying Her Flight

[cindybc]

Hi Lori, I do so agree with your list of persons not to trust or like.

I hate child beaters, Bigots, people who throw god and the bible in my face telling me how wrong and sick I am.....list goes on. In fact I'm pretty intolerant of most people.

Here are a few more to add to your list. Rapists, woman beaters, sex perves, have you noticed that these are mostly male perpetrators? Don't get me wrong, I am not insinuating that all men are bad, I would be lying for I have worked right along side some men that were realy nice and caring and just as empathic as I am.

As for me, it is impossible for me to be angry for more then a few minutes then I get all upset and cry a lot. I will not judge or even evaluate another's integrity good or lack of. I leave the judges robes for Great Spirit to wear and do the judging. I believe as probably everyone here knows already that I had 11 kids under my roof though the years, so I supose that should speak for itself as to how I feel about children.

Maybe they should give these people the big snip, SRS and then drop them with the male population of a prison.

Cindy       

[Alyssa M.]

Hmm... well, I fit most of these categorization ... whatever that means. 

I'll just point out two things:

We often have well above average intelligence
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
...
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics

Hmmm... We're very smart and highly technical, but suck at math? Seems a bit self-contradictory, don't you think?

And then there's this:

We gave deep seated hatred of authority

Yes, quite. Especially when it comes in the form of arbitrary diagnostic tools involving lists.

[lady amarant]

Hmmm... We're very smart and highly technical, but suck at math? Seems a bit self-contradictory, don't you think?

Not necessarily. I mean, my basic math is very good. As soon as I hit calculus and higher algebra in uni though, I started struggling. I do okay as a programmer because I am able to figure out the underlying relationships between things fairly well, and I can probably code any algorithm I need to given a book thjat explains it, but that does not mean I really understand the math behind it all. I don't know how generally true that is, but for me, the trait is VERY accurate.

~Simone,
       Mathematically Challenged.

[Alyssa M.]

I see how they are a bit different, but given the context, "excelled in writing at an early age," I don't think abstract algebra and calculus were what the statements were getting at. It would be like demonstrating that I'm dexterous but illiterate by saying, "I learned to tie my shoes when I was very young, but failed utterly to get through The Brothers Karamazov." A bit of a category mismatch.

Also, I don't believe anyone who really gets programming (I don't mean particular algorithms, but the flow and structure in general) is bad at math, because math is fundamentally the same as programming: you invent little games and structures and push them around and see what they do. Unfortunately, that's not how math is taught, so a lot of people who are actually pretty good at math think they're no good at it. Check out what one disgruntled math teacher has to say:

http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_03_08.html

(a long article, but the gist of it comes across in the first two pages.)

[cindybc]

I at one time could say that many of the points on that list  fit me to a T, but most are stuff I have already dealt with, but there are still a few that give me a hard time. Authority? "Hell yea!" Don't like authority much but I remain within the law. What sense would it make for me at my age to get put in jail for something like trying to be some showoffy rebel. wouldn't that be kind of a dumb thing to do? Pitz on it, ain't worth it anyway. I would be unable to do anything aggressive or violent anyway, for I am a none violent or aggressive person. "Aint there enough Dumb F'n S*it heads! out there as is?" Eventually they will self destruct when they get their what goes around gets around.

As for high intelligence, well I am certain that we would have to be smart in order to survive this dilemma that we find ourselves cornered into. You know how best to beat this? accept your lot then just simply flow with it, don't fight it, just flow. In the end it is as easy as putting on a pair of well fitting shoes. I love who I am and now it's time for me to shine the light and guide others along on their personal journey. 

Cindy

[lady amarant]

I get your point Alyssa, and thinking about it, the point about math is very true. My dad failed Standard 9 (Grade 11) because of math, was lucky enough to get a different teacher the next year, and ended up passing with distinction the next year.

Maybe sucking at math has more to do with the deep-seated hatred of authority...  >

~Simone,
      Mathematical Anarchist.

[RebeccaFog]

Maybe sucking at math has more to do with the deep-seated hatred of authority...  >

~Simone,
      Mathematical Anarchist.

Mine is a deep seated hatred for math.

[Constance]

Mine is a deep seated hatred for math.

Hear, hear! If the gods had meant for us to do math, they wouldn't have given us calculators.

[lady amarant]

Mine is a deep seated hatred for math.

Hear, hear! If the gods had meant for us to do math, they wouldn't have given us calculators.

Nay-saying heathens!

~Simone,
       Fundamentalist Mathematical Anarchist.

[RebeccaFog]

Nay-saying heathens!

~Simone,
       Fundamentalist Mathematical Anarchist.

I prefer to think of myself as a heathsaying nayen, if you don't mind.

[Just Mandy]

We're very smart and highly technical, but suck at math? Seems a bit self-contradictory, don't you think?

Not at all. There are many vocations that are very technical where no math skills are needed. I think it's a mistake to
believe that getting math == higher intelligence. That may be true for some but for me I have a high IQ but don't
get math at all. I have a brother that is an mechanical engineer that uses math I can't even begin to comprehend
that does not get programming at all. He struggles just as much with programming as I do with math.

Also, I don't believe anyone who really gets programming (I don't mean particular algorithms, but the flow and structure in
general) is bad at math, because math is fundamentally the same as programming: you invent little games and structures
and push them around and see what they do.

I get programming... it's inborn in me I think but I struggled though math starting at grade one right through college. It was
not that I could NOT do it, it was just a tremendous, painful struggle. I picked up programming the first day just like reading
or writing, it was effortless and I excelled at it. I can't say I ever excelled in  math ever.

Unfortunately, that's not how math is taught, so a lot of people who are actually pretty good at math think they're no good at it.

Being good at something is relative. I'm a great programmer but horrible with math relatively speaking. I don't doubt that
having a good teacher might have helped(I never had one ever, so I don't think it was the teachers)  but.... math, of any kind was
a struggle no matter who my teacher was, whereas reading, writing, speaking was fluid and effortless to learn. As was programming,
it came naturally and I never struggled with it at all. To me learning math was learning rigid rules of how things work, programming
is a visual process in my mind using my imagination. There are no rules and there are many methods of solving the same
problem, all of which are correct. When programming I see the structures in my mind and manipulate them with code.  Now
maybe math is the same way, but I was never taught math like that, and I don't get it.

Amanda

[tekla]

That's why terms like "well above average intelligence" are survey equivalents to cow pies.  They just lay there and stink until somebody steps in them. 

I bet if I walked down the street I would get close to a 70% "YES" reply to the question "Are you of average or above average intelligence?"  People do not tend to think of themselves as dumb.  Given that, as I said earlier - and all over the place - by what standard?  IQ tests?  GPA?  (and then you get into schools, all 3.76 GPAs are not equal), abilities (and I would weigh heavy on ability over knowing in theory), accomplishments?  What? 

So, in theory - because I know less than nothing about it - programmers are not good at math per se, they are good at languages.  Programing is more about language than math, and the people I know who do well at it are good in languages for the most part.  The hardware designers are much more math based then the programmers, who are, at root, writing commands, not formulas.

And not all technical thingies are math dependent.  Yeah we have a lot of people in here who have programming jobs, but the people here who went to WyoTech, who repair things, who work at craft based work like carpenter, electrical workers, people in health care, who don't use tons of math (no more than basic arithmetic, but no calculations) yet do some pretty technical work. 

[RebeccaFog]

   I would be interested in information on T people who are learning disabled or otherwise challenged.   I've been wondering about them since I came out to myself and I worry about them a lot.

   I am not saying I pity the learning disabled.  Just that I worry that they may be abused or taken advantaged of or just thrown to the side.

   There's got to be such people.  Maybe they don't know enough to speak out or maybe they are ignored when they do.

[Just Mandy]

Yeah we have a lot of people in here who have programming jobs,

Really? I'm curious, now... I did not realize there were that many programmers that were TS and
post here. I only know of three others. Simone, Alyssa and I won't name the third
because I can't remember if she has said it publicly

Has anyone ever done an occupation poll? If not would everyone be willing to respond?

I think it's interesting to see what TS's excel at and have chosen to do.



Amanda

[Eva Marie]

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - check
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others  - check
We are very insecure - in some cases, yes
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - check
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - check
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - sometimes i just dont care what i look like
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - check
We often have inattention to health issues - check
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - not extreme here, but modest yes
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - check
We often have well above average intelligence - check
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations - computer programmer
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - non-comp here, layed back
We are very imaginative daydreamers - check
We display self destructive behavior - check
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - nope
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - check
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - check
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - i hate cops with radar guns pointing at me
We have on and off battles with clinical depression  - check
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - check
We are able to easily read peoples emotions - most times, yes
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - nope
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - some thoughts when depressed


Very interesting survey

[Just Mandy]

I bet if I walked down the street I would get close to a 70% "YES" reply to the question "Are you of average or above average intelligence?"  People do not tend to think of themselves as dumb.  Given that, as I said earlier - and all over the place - by what standard?  IQ tests?  GPA?  (and then you get into schools, all 3.76 GPAs are not equal), abilities (and I would weigh heavy on ability over knowing in theory), accomplishments?  What? 

Yes, I agree. I read a study about a year ago that said the most incompetent people did not know they
were incompetent and actually judged themselves to be very competent. I took that study to heart but then
I concluded based on the things you mentioned, IQ, GPA, ability and accomplishments that I was not one of the
incompetents And I also concluded that since I've always been VERY willing to admit my weaknesses...and math is a
biggie for me, that I would know better than anyone where any incompetence lies and be willing to admit to it.

So, in theory - because I know less than nothing about it - programmers are not good at math per se, they are good at languages.  Programing is more about language than math, and the people I know who do well at it are good in languages for the most part.  The hardware designers are much more math based then the programmers, who are, at root, writing commands, not formulas.

It's really more than writing commands, to me programming is mostly about visualizing the data structures and underlying data that is
stored in a computer and manipulating them. And there are no real rules on how you do that and you're free to develop your own
ways to do it, unlike math which is all about formulas and rules that are set in stone.

Amanda

[Eva Marie]

It's really more than writing commands, to me programming is mostly about visualizingan the data structures and underlying data that is
stored in a computer and manipulating them. And there are no real rules on how you do that and you're free to develop your own
ways to do it, unlike math which is all about formulas and rules that are set in stone.

Amanda

Amanda - I agree. I hate math (except geometry) but generally find that in my day to day programming activities just knowing basic math skills suffices since I am solving business related problems, not trying to do gee whiz scientific stuff. It is my belief that organizing and writing a well constructed program or system is more an art/logic skill than a science skill.