A list of TS traits from my therapist

[Just Mandy]

That's five of us

You know... I had forgotten but geometry was one of my easier math classes and I did enjoy it.

Amanda

[tekla]

solving business related problems, not trying to do gee whiz scientific stuff

In fact, outside of physics (and even then it more pretend math) science has little math outside of basic arithmetic.  Business, on the other had, is all math.  All the people, the products, the suppliers, the clients, the delivery system, all pay homage to the bottom line.  The biggest business decisions are made by the person who is the de-facto CFO - the person who controls the double-entry accounting system.  Its the spread sheet that is/was the killer ap for business.

[Just Mandy]

The math that  I've struggled with is the higher math... algebra, calculus( OMG that was hard),
fractals, statistics and the like.

I can do business math/accounting in my sleep without even counting on my fingers

[tekla]

I love my accountant - I ask him how much two plus two is and he asks me back "How much do you want it to be."  At the level of big business the cost accounting is very much a higher based math function, and when it breaks down, it really falls apart. 

I work in a business where the accounting system was ripped off from the publishing industry, who created this accounting system from the same stuff their fiction writers were working from - whole cloth.  I have a story from someone I interviewed, transcribed it runs two pages single space, that is almost a psychedelic fantasy about how its possible to make a record that goes gold and still end up owing the record company money.  Very funny stuff, as long as its not your life story.

And I always wondered why calc was taught along geometry and algebra, where the second two have a lot of real world use, and calc is only used to solve a very specific problem, one that rarely occurs in everyday life.

[RebeccaFog]

It's really more than writing commands, to me programming is mostly about visualizing the data structures and underlying data that is stored in a computer and manipulating them. And there are no real rules on how you do that and you're free to develop your own ways to do it, unlike math which is all about formulas and rules that are set in stone.

Amanda

I visualize it too.

I don't do a lot of programming, though.  I work in IT and I do whatever comes my way.  I've written some code and changed other people's code.  A lot of it was markup language, so I don't know if that counts as programming, though I had 2 semesters of C++.

Visualizing seems to upset the left brainers.  I refuse to describe what I'm doing to them because they demand details and crap that are really only a piece of the big picture.

[Just Mandy]

I love my accountant - I ask him how much two plus two is and he asks me back "How much do you want it to be."  At the level of big business the cost accounting is very much a higher based math function, and when it breaks down, it really falls apart.

That sounds almost like my therapist... what is the meaning of two plus two.... what do you think it mean?

[Shana A]

I work in a business where the accounting system was ripped off from the publishing industry, who created this accounting system from the same stuff their fiction writers were working from - whole cloth.  I have a story from someone I interviewed, transcribed it runs two pages single space, that is almost a psychedelic fantasy about how its possible to make a record that goes gold and still end up owing the record company money.  Very funny stuff, as long as its not your life story.

Tekla,

A few years ago I read a breakdown of how much a band ends up with after the record companies w/ creative accountants get their "share". Might've been on Courney Love's site, I don't remember. I'd like to see the story from your interviewee if it's available.

Z

[Eva Marie]

Visualizing seems to upset the left brainers.  I refuse to describe what I'm doing to them because they demand details and crap that are really only a piece of the big picture.

I visualize also. If I don't have a mental picture of what I need to do then I can't do it. Sometimes I sit and stare off into space and people think i'm not working when actually i'm building that mental image I need to do the job.

[Just Mandy]

I visualize it too.
I don't do a lot of programming, though.  I work in IT and I do whatever comes my way.  I've written some code and changed other people's code.  A lot of it was markup language, so I don't know if that counts as programming, though I had 2 semesters of C++.

Markup up language counts in my book, it's more concerned with visual content but it is still a form of programming. And of
course C++ does. I've live and breathe C++

Visualizing seems to upset the left brainers.  I refuse to describe what I'm doing to them because they demand details and crap that are really only a piece of the big picture.

I can see that

Amanda

[RebeccaFog]

Every time you type something I hear it in Bender's voice now

me too.  I've actually been holding back because I want to continually mouth off.   It's weird.

very weird.

[lady amarant]

   I would be interested in information on T people who are learning disabled or otherwise challenged.   I've been wondering about them since I came out to myself and I worry about them a lot.

   I am not saying I pity the learning disabled.  Just that I worry that they may be abused or taken advantaged of or just thrown to the side.

   There's got to be such people.  Maybe they don't know enough to speak out or maybe they are ignored when they do.

Hmmm, I used to be slightly dyslexic as a child, though that's pretty-much gone away now.

Posted on: 05 April 2008, 04:10:23

Yeah we have a lot of people in here who have programming jobs,

Really? I'm curious, now... I did not realize there were that many programmers that were TS and
post here. I only know of three others. Simone, Alyssa and I won't name the third
because I can't remember if she has said it publicly

Has anyone ever done an occupation poll? If not would everyone be willing to respond?

I think it's interesting to see what TS's excel at and have chosen to do.



Amanda

It's probably a stereotype, (Another one! Aaaaaaaarg!) but an inordinate number of the TS people I know are in IT in one way or another - not necessarily all programmers (though a significant number are) but either in tech-support, or installations or DBA's or whatever.

For the record, I don't actually work as a programmer anymore. I've worked as a disabled care assistant for about a year now, before that spent a year doing temp-work while travelling across South Africa, and before that a year teaching English in Taiwan. I haven't programmed professionally in 3 or 4 years now.

My GID came to a head just as I started my working life post uni, so alot of the loathing and unhappiness imprinted on programming, not to mention the fact that I couldn't concentrate on my work, was subsequently crap at it, and took a major knock in self-confidence and enjoyment. I still program on-and-off for my boss or for personal projects, but I shudder at the idea of going back to it professionally.

Posted on: 05 April 2008, 04:20:15

It's really more than writing commands, to me programming is mostly about visualizing the data structures and underlying data that is stored in a computer and manipulating them. And there are no real rules on how you do that and you're free to develop your own ways to do it, unlike math which is all about formulas and rules that are set in stone.

Amanda

Hmmm. I also find that my programming has a lot more to do with seeing it like a picture or a story in my mind than figuring it out - except when I'm counting loops. I love data modelling and manipulation problems because it's fascinating to take a real-world scenario and abstract it into its ... essence, I suppose. On the other hand, doing straight coding work like writing front-ends and infrastructure and the like killed it for me, because there's nothing to play with in your mind. It's a schlep, pure and simple.

~Simone.

[Seshatneferw]

I also find that my programming has a lot more to do with seeing it like a picture or a story in my mind than figuring it out

Mm, yes, something like that. One thing that really made an impression back when was Knuth's idea of literary programming: that software is ultimately not an engineering project but a literary work. Of course, the way he did it (with TeX and other related stuff) never really hit off, but the basic idea still feels right to me. In fact, now that I think of it, quite a few of the mental processes I learned for programming are also useful for a related literary genre, the research paper.

  Nfr

[Alena43]

This list fits me to a t, I have all of them, except for maybe one or two.

Hugz,
Ariana

[noeleena]

hi... Rebis .     maths  . me i  was no good at it .    writing no spellling no  reading no . i was all ways last in the class .  i went to a reading class i think it helped .   at 13 i went to a high school just for 2 years .  when i left i was 2nd to the top why . wood work was my thing . sports to a point ,  i am a left handed yet i use my right as well.    i built a car shed a 20 ft by 12 ft from the ground up all of it.    left school went in to the cabinat making then building in 1963 plus now we call it dyslextic yes well . i can do all of those things now   just not at school .   so maths did i need it .  its a wonder i got a job doing building   so over 40 years i have done it.   so what we need is people to give us a try . & i have done that as well   so there you go.... love life live life   can we yes we can & as females thats me ....noeleena....

[Pica Pica]

I was in remedial maths, and I only learnt to tell the time when i was 13... numbers just doesn't stick, nor does the alphabet.

[soldierjane]

Interesting, more ways to be garden variety I guess ;P

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - Yup, before
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - Yup, before
We are very insecure - Yup
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - Yup
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - Yup
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - Yup, mostly before
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - Yup.. hated my pictures before
We often have inattention to health issues - Yup
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - Yup, mostly before
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - Kinda sorta maybe, I'm a daredevil
We often have well above average intelligence - Ahem... yes, yes, of course...
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. - I don't know, I'm a lazy dork with a taste for everything knowledge. Can't concentrate a lot unless I'm in the mood.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - Hard to tell, I'm competitive but I don't show it.
We are very imaginative daydreamers - Yup
We display self destructive behavior - I have, before
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. - I have had thoughts of the sort, but I think all racism and homophobia is heinous.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - I'm a pacifist but I love to study wars. Death penalty... better investigation required to validate it.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - Totally me before.
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - Unless I'm tanking an instance in full plate, then I'm all Battle Shout.
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - Oh boy yes. And distrust.
We have on and off battles with clinical depression - Yep, I guess.
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - I think so.
We are able to easily read peoples emotions - Totally.
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - Totally me, Math and me don't mix
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - Yeah, mostly before

[LynnER]

Well... Here goes LoL


We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - Used to do that...

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - Still do up to a point, but its for diffrent reasons now.

We are very insecure - Sometimes, but not allways... before I most deffinatly was.

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - Ummmmm, Id Nix on this one... I have more than a few close friends... though I now wonder what I was thinking... and I generaly hate being alone, though when I need my space I need my space..

We exhibit extreme shyness at times - Yeah, still kinda shy, unless Im on stage... but Im horrable with one on one situations with new people.

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - I used to be a "man" in black... everything was black... though I did take care of my appearance for the sake of others around me.

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - Ive burnt all but one or two pictures of myself... the ones I could get ahold of atleast... and when I get my hands on more, !!WOOSH!!   Now, I dont mind so long as they'r taken with a decent camara. <camara phones lenses bring out allot of bad physical traits>

We often have inattention to health issues - Prettymuch yeah... I hate doctors... and will do my best to avoid them at all costs.

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - Most deffinatly, its true for both now and before, though I try to be alittle more open now... but Im not very good at it.

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - I used to "accidentaly" injure myself, in the hope Id injure the right part of myself and force this all on my family in a way they could better cope with.  <I was looking for an excuse>  I had started working for my father when I was 12...  When I stopped doing that, I became subconciously suicidal... and I did some really really crazy and dangerous things... and loved it.

We often have well above average intelligence - Im freaking brilliant... though I think I was allot smarter before I drank all that alchahol and did all those drugs....

We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. - yep yep, deffinatly true... if I dont have to think on the job... I dont like the job. and I LOVE working with my hands.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - Generaly not competitive... though if I was in the mood to be... I won... end of story.

We are very imaginative daydreamers - Huh?  Sorry, I was lost in thought.

We display self destructive behavior - Daredevil jobs, intentional accidents, drugs, alchahol... rebelous, punkrock lifestyle... you tell me 

We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. - Im Racist against stoopid people....  everybody else is cool though  XD

We are anti-war and anti death penalty - Depends on the war... but generaly speaking, I think we shouldnt be mucking about in other countries affairs like we are...  and the death penalty should exist, but it needs more strict guidelines... Instead of proving beyond a shadow of a dobut... it should be proving conclusivly... and by unanimous jurry....

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - DONT YOU KNOW HOW TO KNOCK!!!!!  "GRRRRRRRRRRRAH!!"

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - Before, I was very violent... It was purely part of my denial of who I was... but I felt I needed to put on one heck of a show for people...  Besides, when you cant JUST hurt yourself... why not get the biggest meanest person in a place to do it for you?   Now, I'll only fight if I absolutely positivly have to...

We gave deep seated hatred of authority - Only if Im not the authority

We have on and off battles with clinical depression - yep yep, sounds about right.

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice -Generaly speaking, yes. Cept over the phone... the loss of quality of the sound can throw me off till I catch actual speach paterns.

We are able to easily read peoples emotions - For the most part, yes...

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - Yep yep, most deffinatly... cept with the math thing... I was a total math whiz... though now Im pretty rusty  *shrugs*    Use it or loose it right?

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - In the past, yeah... and even durring the really really rough periods in the last few years...  but for the most part they stay at bay 

[Just Mandy]

Well... since I started the topic I guess I should answer the questions

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions -- My wife referred to me as the Ice Princess in our early years.
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - Can't even get close to that pre-HRT, now it's like a magic door has been opened.
We are very insecure - yes, relationships, looks, but everyone knows that already
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone, I have two close friends both are female. One on one is OK, but I do not like crowds of people.
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - when young I was extremely shy, not so much anymore.
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance yep, on both
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - exclusively, unless forced.
We often have inattention to health issues - yes, never had any serious issues but I do not see doctors for anything
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity yep, not even in front of my SO
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - yes, activities, the more dangerous the better
We often have well above average intelligence - sometimes I think I'm pretty dumb but IQ tests show otherwise
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. yes.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground, very competitive to a fault. win at all costs
We are very imaginative daydreamers yes, since I was very young
We display self destructive behavior - yes, at times, very self destructive
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. yes - very sympathetic to others plights
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - unless we are defending ourselves and yes, there is no place for the death penalty
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives, I don't like anyone knowing anything about my life. I can post here because it is somewhat anonymous and I really need you guys
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation, never and if given the opportunity I'll run
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - not a hatred but questioning of authority of any kind, teachers, government, etc.
We have on and off battles with clinical depression - no, sad but not to the level of depression
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - absolutely
We are able to easily read peoples emotions, yes, very easy
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - correct
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - attempted when young, nothing since

[Sheena]

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
Thats the only one that didn't apply to me and now that I know who I am and like myself several others don't now apply and working on a lot of the others.
Sheena

[Sarah]

Yeah we have a lot of people in here who have programming jobs,

Really? I'm curious, now... I did not realize there were that many programmers that were TS and
post here. I only know of three others. Simone, Alyssa and I won't name the third
because I can't remember if she has said it publicly

Has anyone ever done an occupation poll? If not would everyone be willing to respond?

I think it's interesting to see what TS's excel at and have chosen to do.



Amanda

Part of my major includes motion scripting and scripting languages.
I don't know if you would call that programming, but it is using scripting languages.
I guess simple programming, although I only sew together, I don't write programs uless you consider web and UI programs.

-Sara