Transgender vs Transsexual

[Lutin]

Hi,

Sorry, this is quite possibly a really silly question, but can someone please define, in simple terms, the difference between "transgender" and "transsexual"? It's just that even though I've looked both of them up on The Great W, I still don't understand the difference between them (or, I think I know until I really think about it, at which point the distinction between the two seems to go poof!).

Ta muchly,

Lutin

[The Dread Pirate Rita]

I've always understood "transgender" to be more of an umbrella term.  It includes all the more specific variations: crossdresser, androgyne, transsexual, gender confused, genderqueer, non-gendered, pan-gendered, antigender, genderless, disengendered, and jenderfer lopez.

"transsexual", on the other hand, refers to someone who has one anatomical/genetic sex, but identifies as the other.  It's one of the many subcategories of "transgender".

Alternatively, some people would consider a "transsexual" to be a person who undergoes a physical "sex change" (with HRT and/or surgery, depending on who you ask), regardless of the person's psychological identification (i.e. Hedwig and the Angry Inch).  Personally, I disagree with this description.  I'm TS today, and if the world fell apart tonight and it became impossible for me to ever transition, I would still be TS tomorrow.  And I would be miserable, so let's cross our fingers that doesn't happen

Anyway, no category perfectly describes a person.  The more specific they get, the less applicable they become, so often the broader categories are the most sensible ones.  Which is partly the reason why "transgender" is often used instead of a more specific label.  I think.  Hope that helps!

[Natasha]

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,14714.0.html

[Hazumu]

There are two (or more) 'parallel universes' (for want of a better description,) where the two words have different meaning.

In the academic universe, where the definitions are precise and free of positive or negative connotations, Transgender is the umbrella term encompassing everything from occasional crossdressing to post-SRS people who have also had FFS, body contouring, laser and or electrolysis hair removal from other than the face, surgical voice feminization and other extreme surgical intervention. 

"Transgender" may also denote a sub category usually in between crossdresser and transsexual, meaning someone who lives mostly or fully in a gender role other than what society believes is appropriate for the body they were born with.  Usually this means male-birth-sex individuals living as female, and vice versa, but can also mean genderqueer and gender ___k individuals.

Transsexual is a subgrouping under the Transgender umbrella that denotes those who are pursuing or have achieved post-SRS status and changing legal status to that of the other group on the gender binary than they were born into.  Transsexual can also apply to those who desire SRS but are medically unqualified to undergo it.

Now for the other universe:

In a world that contains bigoted homophobes and transphobes, words carry connotations, either good or bad.  Consider the word group, pee | piss | urinate.  They all mean exactly the same thing, but each has a different connotation.  'Pee' connotes innocence and a certain naturalness and inevitability.  'Piss' is aggressive, raunchy and negative.  'Urinate' is academic, and used when these matters involving bodily function must be discussed in polite company.

Connotation is why there is such a thing as 'politically correct' speech.  'Colored' had bad connotations, so it was replaced by 'negro', but that acquired bad connotations so along came 'afro-american' which sounded ridiculous and was replaced with 'black' which over the years accumulated bad connotations and was replaced with 'African American', which will be replaced by the by...

Because of connotation, you will never find homophobic websites use the word 'gay' to refer to men who are sexually oriented to other men.  That word doesn't carry a connotation of condemnation.  The people who maintain these sites would probably like to use the word f____t or f_g.  It's aggressive and condemning, but then they would be exposing themselves as bigots.  So they settle for 'homosexual', with the connotation that it is their duty to speak of such vile, disgusting things, but they'll use the academic word so as not to offend (too much.)

Also, swear words and oaths are processed in a different part of the brain from normal conversation.  Indeed there are stroke sufferers who have lost the ability to converse, because that area was damaged.  But because the area of the brain that processes swearing was untouched, they can still curse up a storm.  Also for a percentage of the population, hearing curse words produces a physical reaction, the way that the sound of a metal rake on the sidewalk or fingernails on a blackboard produce a physical feeling in some people.

Now on to Transsexual and Transgender.  In a universe of connotations, the preferred words change.  The word 'transsexual' has the word SEXUAL in it.  And some people react badly to that word.

So, even though it's academically wrong to refer to a post-op transsexual [ACADEMIC] as a transgender, it has some real world advantages in our quest to not be treated badly just because some Leviticus-spouting FundeVangelist can't stop thinking about sweaty, meaningless, deviant, sinful SEX whenever they contemplate the idea of transsexuals.  The word 'transgender' is somewhat less likely to invoke such a reaction, and more likely to allow such individuals the opportunity to see us as, perhaps, almost human.

Karen

[Lutin]

Thank you everyone so very very much!!!

The problem was (/is) that I was (/am) contemplating telling Mum, but no-one in my family (as far as I know, anyway) identifies as anything other than the traditional binary either-or. I was scared of trying to tell Mum and have her turn around and either ask "what does transgender mean? Is it like transsexual?", or think she already knows and be convinced that they're one and the same, both of which would result in me having to try to define and differentiate between them. I just didn't want to try to explain the difference at the same time as trying to explain myself and get it wrong (although that could help me earn my fortune, writing the definitive How Not To Come Out For Dummies ). Before I tell Mum (if, indeed, I do...still not sure yet..."Hey Mum, what would you say if I said I was transgender?" ) I want to be crystal clear as to what is what, that I'm X but not Y...  Does that make sense? I'm fairly sure Mum wouldn't mind (she might even have figured things out for herself, but not have a name for it. She's smart, my Mum ), but given the impact it would have (having your only daughter say she feels more like the elder (bi-->gay) brother of your 15-year-old son than his big sister is hardly on the same level as talking about the weather), I don't want to bungle it if I *do* decide to spill the magic beans.

But let me try to get this straight (please?)...as I still feel like the female-bodied person I am about 10% of the time, and completely androgynous about 15-20%, I don't identify *solely* as the opposite of my birth sex - which means I'm not transsexual? Given that 1) a transsexual "is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other", and desires "to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender", and 2) that I *don't* identify with this 100% of the time...that's transgender, but not transsexuality, aye? I know when I first joined, people suggested "gender fluid", which struck a chord. Gender fluid ≠ transsexual...right? (Not that I have anything wrong with transsexuals. I just really need to get my head around it ).

Anyway, sorry for ranting. Thanks again for everyone's help, you've all been wonderful.

Lutin

[Beyond]

Given that 1) a transsexual "is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other", and desires "to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender", and 2) that I *don't* identify with this 100% of the time...that's transgender, but not transsexuality, aye? I know when I first joined, people suggested "gender fluid", which struck a chord. Gender fluid ≠ transsexual...right? (Not that I have anything wrong with transsexuals. I just really need to get my head around it ).

You are correct.  You illuminate an importance difference between TG's and people born transsexual.  That is why some of us don't believe transsexualism should be under the umbrella term "transgender" at all.  I don't have anything against TG's, but by definition they are 2 different things.  In the last 15 years many people born transsexual adopted the TG label out of shame.  Hey, I admit that I did that myself for a couple years.  I think it's time to take back the word "transsexual" and educate the public. It's a slow process, but things are changing.  You can't stop progress.

[Chris2]

would this that's on the front of the forum be an explanation?: In Gender Studies the term "gender" is used to refer to the social and cultural constructions of masculinities and femininities. It does not refer to biological difference, but rather cultural


?

[JENNIFER]

Oh deary me, the need for labels drives me bonkers.   I venture to guess that if one placed a fullblown redneck male into a gender reassignment programme, you might get a fullblown redneck female back.  However, you get a female body with a male mind and S/HE might set out to kill everyone involved in the programme that deformed H/ER.  The body fits but the mind does not. I assume this why we endure years of therapy before SRS.

The term 'Transsexual' bothers me greatly because it is a label that confuses the vast majority of the population that have no problems with their identity.  Society calles me that and therefore I must be one.  The 'sexual' bit is troublesomme to me because it was never a matter of sex with me apart from not being able to engage in a sexual way with another person due to genital abnormality.

The term 'Transgender' is possibly more accurate in that this is what is happening with me. I am transfering from a social male to a social female in order to be able to live my life with a measure of ease and comfort.  The end result hopefully shall be a female in sight and in the mind of everyone that comes into contact with me.   

[Chris2]

well, it's only my opinion, but I think labels are only necessary if the person feels the need for it for himself/herself...
personally, I do, & I hope it's ok to add a bit of detail on the subject...

I'm "approximately" middle-age; & whether it's in general or specific aspects of the subject, I feel 100% alone..I haven't been able to find "people who are like me" (that is, people who experience/understand/relate similarly) since the mid-eighties when I found a wonderful magazine called the Transsexual Voice, which I guess doesn't exist anymore...
so during the last few years I've looked around online, and in this small city where I now live, & there have been many people who call themselves Transgender, very nice people but they didn't grasp what I'm about or going through..
that's my only need/reason for "labels." 

[Beyond]

The term 'Transsexual' bothers me greatly because it is a label that confuses the vast majority of the population that have no problems with their identity.  Society calles me that and therefore I must be one.  The 'sexual' bit is troublesomme to me because it was never a matter of sex with me apart from not being able to engage in a sexual way with another person due to genital abnormality.

True it is not about the act of sex, but it is about the sex of the body.  That's part of what the public needs to be educated about.  You are allowing an uneducated society to shame you.

The term 'Transgender' is possibly more accurate in that this is what is happening with me. I am transfering from a social male to a social female in order to be able to live my life with a measure of ease and comfort.  The end result hopefully shall be a female in sight and in the mind of everyone that comes into contact with me.   

"Transgender" is actually more inaccurate!  I did NOT change my gender, I changed my body to match my gender.  As Jamison Green said:

I could achieve my personal goal of adulthood.  This means that I have chosen to change my appearance.... it does not mean that my gender is socially --- or even medically --- constructed. My gender has not changed; I have simply made it's message clear.

[NicholeW.]

I agree with Beyond that we, as a group, allow the 'sexual' bit to be mistakenly used, most particularly amongst ourselves. We collude with the bigots when we as well define sex as an act, rather than a biological category.

My sex is female, albeit in a 'defective' form. My gender has not changed any at all. I simply present myself with the socio-cultural 'gender-accoutrments" of the sex I am.

Were I to move to India, I would, no doubt, change my daily clothing to reflect the culture. I'd wear (and actually love to) a lot of kurtas and the shalwar kameez either with pants for a suit (for work) or with a skirt (for work and other daily and social occasions.) Those would show my gender and give people there the ticket to the 'sex' that would be my body.

Thus, I prefer my history to be "transsexual" as I have not changed my gender at all, just the secondary characteristics of my sex.

Nichole

[Gracie Faise]

Its simple.

Transgender = Umbrella term for all deviations of the gender binary.

Transexual = One of the terms that is under that umbrella. Someone who has Gender Identity Disorder (GID) aka Harry Benjamin Syndrome (HBS) aka a birth defect that makes the sex of your body opposite the gender of your brain.

[Beyond]

Its simple.

Transgender = Umbrella term for all deviations of the gender binary.

Transexual = One of the terms that is under that umbrella. Someone who has Gender Identity Disorder (GID) aka Harry Benjamin Syndrome (HBS) aka a birth defect that makes the sex of your body opposite the gender of your brain.

It's not that simple.

There are many people born transsexual that object to being shoehorned under the transgender umbrella.  A person born transsexual desires complete transition, to fully be, as much as possible, who they should have been.  I'm done transition and I'm not gender variant, I'm just another woman in the world.

Transgender people are gender variant in some way, shape or form.

That's a significant difference.  I'm legally, psychologically and anatomically female.  Look at my avatar, do I look variant?  And please don't say I'm beholden to stereotypes or the dichotomy because that is simply not  true.  I'm a plain Jane, vanilla girl from next door.  And I know this going to sound trite, but for the most part I feel cured.  The dysphoria I felt for most of my life is GONE.  I love life and I love me!

Then why do I come here?  2 reasons: Habit and to help others.


I hope this helps explain where I'm coming from.

[TreeFlower]

Took me a while to figure this out but according to Merriam-Webster, sex is physical and gender is behavioral, cultural, or psychological.  With that in mind transsexual is accurate but I still don't like the sex part in the word.

Gender
2 a: sex <the feminine gender> b: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender

Sex
1: either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures
2: the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of organisms that are involved in reproduction marked by the union of gametes and that distinguish males and females
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sex

[Lutin]

Then why do I come here?  2 reasons: Habit and to help others.


I hope this helps explain where I'm coming from.

Thanks! And yes, it does help a lot. Much appreciated, really.

True it is not about the act of sex, but it is about the sex of the body.  That's part of what the public needs to be educated about.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm scared of Mum (and my friends) getting confuzzled over, and then obsessing about because they get it wrong (my Mum does that A LOT ).

And I think you're right, society does get all flustered when the "S" word is mentioned. (Even though I personally happen to like Sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssocialism  ).

But really, people hear "sex" and the mind seems to stop. Blood rushes elsewhere. Hmmm... Maybe if (horrible as it sounds) the "f-word", or some substitute (e.g. "splingf") was used to replace sex-the-act, so that "sex" could be used as freely as "gender" is now, but obviously in the not-necessarily-bedroom-scenario context. Physical sex, heterosexuality, bisexual, homosexual, asexual, transsexual, intersex, anything where it's more a state of being/thinking/feeling/identifying, could keep "sex", while the act itself would change to more of a "let's go have splingf."

Ah, if only it were that simple...    

[Beyond]

Then why do I come here?  2 reasons: Habit and to help others.And I think you're right, society does get all flustered when the "S" word is mentioned. (Even though I personally happen to like Sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssocialism  ).

       

But really, people hear "sex" and the mind seems to stop. Blood rushes elsewhere. Hmmm... Maybe if (horrible as it sounds) the "f-word", or some substitute (e.g. "splingf") was used to replace sex-the-act, so that "sex" could be used as freely as "gender" is now, but obviously in the not-necessarily-bedroom-scenario context. Physical sex, heterosexuality, bisexual, homosexual, asexual, transsexual, intersex, anything where it's more a state of being/thinking/feeling/identifying, could keep "sex", while the act itself would change to more of a "let's go have splingf."

Ah, if only it were that simple...    

Okay, I've got it..... "Trans-phenotypical"

From dictionary.com:

phenotype [(fee-nuh-teyep)]

The outward appearance of an organism; the expression of a genotype in the form of traits that can be seen and measured, such as hair or eye color.

[NicholeW.]

What if I like my green eyes & blonde hair just fine? Does that me cis-phenotypical?

Nichole

[Sarah Louise]

This arguement is going down the path it does everytime it is brought up. 

In Circles.

Sarah L.

_________________________


These were definitions Susan came up with.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=14714.msg112044#msg112044


Community Definitions:


Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and Transvestites.

Androgyne: An androgynous person

Androgynous: Being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior.

Crossdresser: a person wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally no sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.

Drag kings: performers, usually gay women or transgendered men - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the male gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag kings often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.

Drag queens: performers, usually gay men or transgendered women - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the female gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag queens often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.

Intersexual: a person born with the full or partial sex organs of both sexes; with underdeveloped or ambiguous sex organs; a sex chromosome karyotype other than XX or XY; or sex hormone receptor problems which prevent normal absorption of Estrogen or Androgens. Intersexual persons may seek to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Significant other: for the purpose of this site, someone close to a person who is transgender. This may be a mother, father, son, daughter, sister, brother, family member, husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, or friend.

Transsexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Transvestite: a person who wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally a strong sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.


Other terms:


Post-Ops: Transsexuals who have had surgical procedures to make their body as congruent as possible with their preferred sex. For MTF transsexuals this is generally considered to be after Genital surgery (GRS, orchiectomy, and/or penectomy), for FTM transsexuals it is generally considered to be after top surgery.

Pre-ops: Transsexuals who desire to to make their body as congruent as possible with their preferred sex, but have not yet had the surgical procedures for whatever reason.

This is not intended to be a glossary of all tg related terms. This just defines the make-up of the community on this site

[JENNIFER]

I have read peoples views since my own was offered and I still believe that labels drives me bonkers.  However, I understand how everyone has a different view and no-one is incorrect because there possibly cannot be a correct answer to this.

At a personal level, as with others here, I am me, I feel female, always have done and live accordingly.  The rest of the world and their pet dogs can go.......******* if they dont like it.


I really enjoy this board because I continue to learn from people similar to myself and realise that I do NOT know it all already    this is most refreshing and I thank everyone that has corrected me or offered an opinion to my thoughts. Please keep them coming. 

[Caroline]

Its simple.

Transgender = Umbrella term for all deviations of the gender binary.

Transexual = One of the terms that is under that umbrella. Someone who has Gender Identity Disorder (GID) aka Harry Benjamin Syndrome (HBS) aka a birth defect that makes the sex of your body opposite the gender of your brain.

Restricting the definition of transsexual to binary identified people strikes me as being unnecessarily exclusive.  There are non-binary identified people (by no means all of them I know) who feel they have a birth defect and their anatomical sex doesn't match the sex of their brain.  This condition can exist whether you feel you're supposed to have a binary sexed body or not.  It's perfectly possible to get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria leading to corrective surgery without being binary identified.

I pretty much agree with the definition of transsexual that Sarah posted above, if "the other" is changed to "an other".

I don't particularly like using the transgender term for myself.  I don't believe the older definition of it fits me as my gender has NOT changed.  It seems to be taking on a new meaning of 'transcending binary gender' (rather than transcending assigned gender), that I don't mind so much I guess, but until it's the generally accepted meaning of the word, I won't use it.  Also (call me a cynic if you must), I can't help but think this attempt to change the definition is an attempt to separate binary identified trans people from non-binary identified trans people.