I Have a Problem With Phallo, with Medio, etc.

[Elwood]

I have a problem with these procedures.
They make a lot of transguys happy. I am also happy for them. But for me... It's VERY hard to accept these procedures as options for me.

I want a natural penis. One that pees, one that erects on it's own, one that passes well to myself and others. I am willing to put my life on the line for the possibility of a transplant. Possible donors range:

1. Fresh cadaver
2. Vegetative patient who will soon be a fresh cadaver
3. Partial transplant from a transwoman
4. Grown part made from stem cells from myself or a male relative

That's correct. I want a transplant. It has only been done a few times. The first human penis transplant was a failure, and the patient was a cisgendered bio male and had his own balls:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14905485/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/sep/18/medicineandhealth.china

Now, it did not fail for medical reasons. The man was disturbed by his transplant. The surgery itself was actually a miraculous medical success.

Wikipedia sheds some dim light on the topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_transplantation

Although, I would want the full primary sexual system, which is even more complicated, although I could (and probably would) settle with synthetic testes.

People say I am unrealistic for setting these goals. But I disagree to an extent... it really is the only solution I see in sight. I have looked at hundreds of photos of medioplasty, phalloplasty, and one of the newer methods (starts with a C... can't remember what it's called). They all did not suit what I feel I need as a patient. I am not just being picky; my dysphoria is quite specific and severe.

A lot of transmen just was "weight" and sensation between their legs. I want something more. Not to say I have higher standards or anything; I DO NOT mean to imply that. I mean to say I am very aware of my body and the sensations in it. I consider myself a scientist, and I know a lot about my body and the human body in general. This knowledge, plus body awareness, plus dysphoria equals difficulty in disassociating or fooling myself. Packing has helped a bit, but it hasn't really done much for my body image. I do like looking at myself in my underwear now, though. Haha...

I leave money out of the picture. If it was a million dollars, I'd still pursue it. If it cost an arm or a leg, I'd still pursue it. I feel like my life hangs in the balance. A lot of transmen seem content (or rather, are okay and can settle with the current methods). I don't think I can do that. I don't think I could settle. I'd probably rather leave the bottom alone for the sake of not having scar tissue that could complicate a transplant.

Science expands and grows exponentially. I think it's possible I could have a transplant in my 30's or 40's...

I understand the risks. I know I would have to be on medication for the rest of my life, and that the very transplant could ration my life. I think if transition wasn't there to give me hope and goals, I'd probably be dead already anyway. So I feel like this is a reasonable sacrifice.

[sneakersjay]

Successful transplants are great, but the risks are huge.  Not to mention anti-rejection drugs lifelong.  Unfortunately I don't think science will advance far enough in my lifetime for this to be a viable option for *me*.  And I'd be very concerned about sensations.

For me it's more about enjoying sex, either getting off by myself or hopefully in the future with a partner.  Kinda like Lasik...(well not really, but sort of).  It's a procedure that tons of people want, have, and love, so they don't have to wear glasses.  But those that have adverse effects (and they do, it's surgery!  There are risks) might not agree.  For *me* I'd rather not mess with something as important as my eyes for a bit of vanity (and heck at my age I already wear bifocals) unless I'm in danger of losing my sight.

Same thing with a transplant: I'm not willing to have the risks associated with that for a bit of male pride.

Prosthetics are so realistic these days, and your MIND is your most powerful sex organ anyway.  When I ultimately get a partner I will invest in a very realistic prosthetic (in the $2000 range, not a $100 dildo).  For now a cheaper stp prosthetic meets my psychological needs.  I guess what I'm also trying to say is that *I* need the boost that even the $12 packy gave me.  My current prosthetic *almost* meets my current solo needs, and I hope the one on order meets my expectations in that department.

Surgery is a wonderful thing, but even with all of the advances there are always risks: anesthetic problems, infections, rejection, failure to heal, fistulas, granulomas, etc etc.

If the risks were minimal, if the success were guaranteed, if it were simple as reattaching a finger, if I knew it would function like the real thing, like a bio-male, maybe.

Jay, rambling incoherently...

[Nero]

God dude, I really feel for you.
I'm very lucky in some respects because I like the equipment I was born with.  A lot of that's for sexual reasons. The only reason I would ever want a penis would be for society, not for me. Cause society says I need one. Other than that, there are times it would be cool to just whip it out and go and penetrate with actually feeling it. But that's just a minor inconvenience to me.
Pussies are prettier anyway. But I understand why some guys want a dick. Though you are being extreme about this though. I hope you find a way to get what you need.

Posted on: May 29, 2008, 12:57:50 PM

Successful transplants are great, but the risks are huge.  Not to mention anti-rejection drugs lifelong.  Unfortunately I don't think science will advance far enough in my lifetime for this to be a viable option for *me*.  And I'd be very concerned about sensations.

For me it's more about enjoying sex, either getting off by myself or hopefully in the future with a partner.  Kinda like Lasik...(well not really, but sort of).  It's a procedure that tons of people want, have, and love, so they don't have to wear glasses.  But those that have adverse effects (and they do, it's surgery!  There are risks) might not agree.  For *me* I'd rather not mess with something as important as my eyes for a bit of vanity (and heck at my age I already wear bifocals) unless I'm in danger of losing my sight.

Same thing with a transplant: I'm not willing to have the risks associated with that for a bit of male pride.

Prosthetics are so realistic these days, and your MIND is your most powerful sex organ anyway.  When I ultimately get a partner I will invest in a very realistic prosthetic (in the $2000 range, not a $100 dildo).  For now a cheaper stp prosthetic meets my psychological needs.  I guess what I'm also trying to say is that *I* need the boost that even the $12 packy gave me.  My current prosthetic *almost* meets my current solo needs, and I hope the one on order meets my expectations in that department.

Surgery is a wonderful thing, but even with all of the advances there are always risks: anesthetic problems, infections, rejection, failure to heal, fistulas, granulomas, etc etc.

If the risks were minimal, if the success were guaranteed, if it were simple as reattaching a finger, if I knew it would function like the real thing, like a bio-male, maybe.

Jay, rambling incoherently...

Not incoherent in the least. You put it a lot better than I.

[sneakersjay]

Thanks, Nero.

And the risks of a good prosthetic are small:

1) lighter wallet
2) reaction to adhesive
3) latex allergy in stp models that use latex
4) mega embarrasment if it falls of at an inopportune moment
5) peeing down your leg, also embarrassing at an inopportune moment

Those are risks I can live with.

Worst case scenario is I hate it and throw it in the trash.

Jay 

[Jamie-o]

Maybe I'm weird, but I actually like the looks of some of the best of the metas better than that of the average natal male.  It has more of a "classical" look about it. (Think: Greek and Roman statues.)

It's funny, for hundreds of years the ideal in male beauty was to be short, minimally endowed, with a high voice.  How much easier it would be for us FtMs if that were still the case. 

[sneakersjay]

Maybe I'm weird, but I actually like the looks of some of the best of the metas better than that of the average natal male.  It has more of a "classical" look about it. (Think: Greek and Roman statues.)

It's funny, for hundreds of years the ideal in male beauty was to be short, minimally endowed, with a high voice.

And that's the problem right there. *some* of the *best* meaning a) we're not seeing the effed up ones and b) some are just not attractive.  If I could be guaranteed a perfectly functional 2" penis that worked (erection, pee, etc) with balls that looked good, MAYBE.

But there are no guarantees.  Surgery is surgery and everyone's skin and tissues are different.  Do I wish surgeries were better?  Yes.  And who knows, I *may* end up with a clit-release and balls some day.  But at this stage, I don't think so.

Jay

[Elwood]

Successful transplants are great, but the risks are huge.  Not to mention anti-rejection drugs lifelong.  Unfortunately I don't think science will advance far enough in my lifetime for this to be a viable option for *me*.  And I'd be very concerned about sensations.

For me it's more about enjoying sex, either getting off by myself or hopefully in the future with a partner.  Kinda like Lasik...(well not really, but sort of).  It's a procedure that tons of people want, have, and love, so they don't have to wear glasses.  But those that have adverse effects (and they do, it's surgery!  There are risks) might not agree.  For *me* I'd rather not mess with something as important as my eyes for a bit of vanity (and heck at my age I already wear bifocals) unless I'm in danger of losing my sight.

Same thing with a transplant: I'm not willing to have the risks associated with that for a bit of male pride.

Prosthetics are so realistic these days, and your MIND is your most powerful sex organ anyway.  When I ultimately get a partner I will invest in a very realistic prosthetic (in the $2000 range, not a $100 dildo).  For now a cheaper stp prosthetic meets my psychological needs.  I guess what I'm also trying to say is that *I* need the boost that even the $12 packy gave me.  My current prosthetic *almost* meets my current solo needs, and I hope the one on order meets my expectations in that department.

Surgery is a wonderful thing, but even with all of the advances there are always risks: anesthetic problems, infections, rejection, failure to heal, fistulas, granulomas, etc etc.

If the risks were minimal, if the success were guaranteed, if it were simple as reattaching a finger, if I knew it would function like the real thing, like a bio-male, maybe.

Jay, rambling incoherently...

It's something that I've given a lot of thought and I'm pretty sure I'd be willing to die for, to be honest.

Having a penis isn't really about sex for me. I actually happen to know that transplants are supposed to be handled very carefully, and that if I were to get a transplant, doctors would recommend that I DON'T have sex with it. And I think I'd be okay with that. I'd rather have a penis and be sexless than have sex with a rubber dick. Not to mention that my penis wouldn't have to go inside of someone for me to be having sex and sexual relations... there are other options.

I don't consider having a penis part of my pride of my "manliness" or "confirmation" of my gender. It is what my body wants. My dysphoria is dreadful. I feel terrible when I see boys with their masculine chests... also just the thought that they have a penis and take it for granted... I get sick to my stomach. I keep thinking my life was a complete waste because I was born this way.

I pack the cheapest, least realistic way, but it does the just the same job a super expensive pack would. How it looks really isn't relevant. If I was transplanted an ugly penis, or one that was not matching my skin tone or something, I honestly don't think it would matter to me a great deal. Because it isn't about "looking" more like a man, since we are clothed in public 99.9% of the time. The exceptions are when we get pants'd in public. That almost never happens. And with an intimate partner, I'm hoping they'd understand my needs. That or I will live alone for life, and act as a swinger for my sexual needs. Still confusing though, since everyone would wonder why my vagina is off limits.

I am willing to face the risks. I am willing to die for it. I have also seen a penis transplant work as a complete success... That gives me some hope. I know it's very expensive, of course, and I would have to pay FULL out of pocket. I'd start selling music now, but my feminine voice will be lost with testosterone, so I don't think I should start singing professionally until my voice settles. I'd sell art now, but I've been ill and my whole life has been turned upside down by coming out about my transgenderism. In short, now is not the time to start planning my life.

God dude, I really feel for you.
I'm very lucky in some respects because I like the equipment I was born with.  A lot of that's for sexual reasons. The only reason I would ever want a penis would be for society, not for me. Cause society says I need one. Other than that, there are times it would be cool to just whip it out and go and penetrate with actually feeling it. But that's just a minor inconvenience to me.
Pussies are prettier anyway. But I understand why some guys want a dick. Though you are being extreme about this though. I hope you find a way to get what you need.

Thanks. I appreciate the understanding.

See, I see it the other way. I think pussies are terribly ghastly. Probably one reason why I like men... Don't get me wrong, girls are cute. But they don't excite me like men do.

And that's the problem right there. *some* of the *best* meaning a) we're not seeing the effed up ones and b) some are just not attractive.  If I could be guaranteed a perfectly functional 2" penis that worked (erection, pee, etc) with balls that looked good, MAYBE.

But there are no guarantees.  Surgery is surgery and everyone's skin and tissues are different.  Do I wish surgeries were better?  Yes.  And who knows, I *may* end up with a clit-release and balls some day.  But at this stage, I don't think so.

Jay

Part of the problem is that I think they ALL look effed up because none of them look like real penises.

People say I'm being "too picky." But this is my BODY we're talking about and a permanent change that I'd be paying THOUSANDS for...

[Nero]

Hmm. What if phallos look like real cocks in a few years? Could happen.

[sneakersjay]

I know everyone has their own personal issues with this and I respect that.

I know that I am not willing to die for a real penis.  I'd rather live.

One of the reasons I buried my transgenderism is because I, too, used to think if I couldn't have a real, functional cock and balls then why turn my whole life upside down?

But now I'm at the point where I have to transition or go insane, and I'll take an enlarged clit and enjoy it fully, even if it can barely get the job done (penetration).  I also know that for *me* most of sex is between my ears.  I can play with my rubber dick and feel it as if it were real.  The mind is a powerful thing.

I ordered a better prosthetic, because I know the cheapies work *for me* like a real penis, and now I need one that looks realistic.  One more step.

Maybe they will make tremendous advances.  Maybe friends can give up their penises when they undergo srs (kind of like donating a liver lobe or a kidney).  Maybe it will work and feel like the real thing.  But I'm much older than you are and at my age I'm not willing to do it.

Jay

[Elwood]

Hmm. What if phallos look like real cocks in a few years? Could happen.

That would certainly affect my decision. I could stand pumping something that looks like a dick. But if I have to pump it AND it looks nothing like a dick... doesn't seem worth it.

I know everyone has their own personal issues with this and I respect that.

I know that I am not willing to die for a real penis.  I'd rather live.

One of the reasons I buried my transgenderism is because I, too, used to think if I couldn't have a real, functional cock and balls then why turn my whole life upside down?

But now I'm at the point where I have to transition or go insane, and I'll take an enlarged clit and enjoy it fully, even if it can barely get the job done (penetration).  I also know that for *me* most of sex is between my ears.  I can play with my rubber dick and feel it as if it were real.  The mind is a powerful thing.

I ordered a better prosthetic, because I know the cheapies work *for me* like a real penis, and now I need one that looks realistic.  One more step.

Maybe they will make tremendous advances.  Maybe friends can give up their penises when they undergo srs (kind of like donating a liver lobe or a kidney).  Maybe it will work and feel like the real thing.  But I'm much older than you are and at my age I'm not willing to do it.

Jay

I say a person should never put a price on a life, and yet I do. My life is really cheap. Worth one penis. Well, not really. My life is worth being a normally male as possible. Having a feminine body and a full-functioning penis probably wouldn't make me very happy either.

You're right. I'll probably reach the same point you have, and grow out of this "I must have a normal penis" stage. I have determined that if counseling doesn't "undo" my transgenderism like my mom wants it too, I WILL transition, penis or no penis. I'll probably have just a big clit and live with it, waiting for the possibility of a transplant or effective constructive surgery. Because I can't stand my current body. I won't be intimate with anyone at all (not even myself) if I don't do something about this. My dysphoria is bad in a way that I can't disassociate and masturbate. I have a sex drive and I can't release it physically. I am left to my mind and just my mind. I don't know many transpeople who have sacrificed masturbation. Most of them still claim they masturbate. But I can't do it. It makes me sick. It makes me feel terrible. It makes me want to die... having the wrong body makes me wonder why I bother to keep living. But I give myself a chance. I tell myself to give transition a chance to happen... and a chance to hopefully work. I know that if I have top surgery that I will be able to at least participate in foreplay.

Sex isn't a big part of my life... I'm a virgin. But I wonder what it would be like to release that sex drive. I can't even really imagine it. People say I am really sexually frustrated and stressed out in generally because I can't find that release. Often they say something like, "How do you live? I fap 3 times a day!" I have to just say, "Must be great to be you."

[sneakersjay]

Elwood, I hear ya.

If I can be personal here: I was a virgin until I was 29, so you're not alone (I don't know how old you are, but you sound much younger than that).  And my earliest recollections of masturbating were about age 10.  Even then, in my head, I was the guy, and I was penetrating.  And I really didn't know what sex was at the time (my parents didn't talk about 'those' things).

So I've always had the release of getting off, though I never masturbated like a 'real woman'.  So now it's easier with my fake dick, because at least I have something, it smells like me, it feels real, though my current one doesn't 'get hard' (but I can work with that). 

Dildos just smell bad and are too large and too hard.

Maybe you could get a soft packy to start and just play with it, and use your imagination.  In your shorts, it feels like the real deal.  Rather than focusing on it's a real penis or nothing, there's a whole lot of options in the middle to explore in the meantime.  Maybe you'll find something that works for you.

Just one older guy's POV.

Jay

[Elwood]

I'm just 18. So I don't feel ashamed that I'm a virgin. But I will be worried if I too am a virgin at 29. But at least I'll be able to remember that other people were too. There's comfort in that.

Well, I masturbated when I was little. Starting at about 4 or 5 years old. But as dysphoria grew, I couldn't anymore. I don't really remember ever masturbating, but my mom said I was quite public about it when I was young. I didn't find it any weirder than a kid who picks his nose or plays with his belly button. I had to be told that such acts were "private."

People who are transmen who play with their, uh... well, their HOLE confuse me. They stick something in there and say it feels like sticking their something in someone else. That's a drastic disassociation/fantasy that I could never pull off. But as you said, you've never masturbated like a "real woman," but some transmen say they do, and I wonder how they do it.

Ah, I think I could give the pack a chance. It may or may not work. I know my home made pack is fun to look at. I never liked seeing myself in my underwear. Now I want to walk around in my underwear all the time. But if my parents found out I was packing... yeah. There'd be a problem.

Thanks for all the good advice, Jay.

[Nero]

And my earliest recollections of masturbating were about age 10.  Even then, in my head, I was the guy, and I was penetrating. 

Yeah, I waited till age 11 when puberty hit. But I wouldn't actually touch my flesh - a lot of rubbing against mattress and underwear.  I felt dirty enough hiding pictures of scantily clad women under my pillow. and my family was very religious, so I felt so sinful. Thought I was sinning by looking at women. 

[sneakersjay]

You're welcome.

And no, I never played with my 'hole' even as an adult. Well I take that back.  I tried.  I thought I must be missing something about it and would try.  I could never get off that way.  Ever.  And I'd be totally bored, LOL.  It's so much easier with a packy.  There's actually something to FEEL!

If you could somehow get the cheapy $12 soft packy, you might like it.  You're 18, so there ought to be a way.

Jay

Posted on: May 29, 2008, 09:45:48 PM

And my earliest recollections of masturbating were about age 10.  Even then, in my head, I was the guy, and I was penetrating. 

Yeah, I waited till age 11 when puberty hit. But I wouldn't actually touch my flesh - a lot of rubbing against mattress and underwear.  I felt dirty enough hiding pictures of scantily clad women under my pillow. and my family was very religious, so I felt so sinful. Thought I was sinning by looking at women. 

Exactly.  I made fake penises out of cloth (taken from the rag bag, stuck together with scotch tape, LOL) and put it in my pants, then would rub a pillow with me on top.  OMG my family was so religious but I did it all the time!!  When I was a teenager, I thought I must be gay because I did it so much and thought I was a guy (that's how little info my parents gave me, it's sad, really!  I didn't even know what being gay (or queer or a fag, as they called it then) meant.  My kids are so much better informed.  I tell them EVERY thing, LOL.

Jay

[Elwood]

Oh, trust me Jay. I've TRIED to make it work out. But it felt weird. It didn't feel right. It felt like something definitely SHOULDN'T be going in there. At the same time, I seem to have no problem with anal. I feel very backwards!

Yeah. I'm going to focus on getting a quality binder before I invest in a nice pack. But I'll be able to get both once I get a real job and have a PayPal account.

OH! Wow... and what you said about how you'd get off... I'll be honest, I've tried that. And it SORT OF works. But I'm still left with like, left over sex drive fuel, if you catch my drift. My sex drive seems high for a female; I'm worried T will make me dry hump people like little dogs do! Haha!

[sneakersjay]

Oh, trust me Jay. I've TRIED to make it work out. But it felt weird. It didn't feel right. It felt like something definitely SHOULDN'T be going in there. At the same time, I seem to have no problem with anal. I feel very backwards!

Yeah. I'm going to focus on getting a quality binder before I invest in a nice pack. But I'll be able to get both once I get a real job and have a PayPal account.

OH! Wow... and what you said about how you'd get off... I'll be honest, I've tried that. And it SORT OF works. But I'm still left with like, left over sex drive fuel, if you catch my drift. My sex drive seems high for a female; I'm worried T will make me dry hump people like little dogs do! Haha!

Oh, I hear ya!  I was the honor student, good Christian girl, virgin, well-respected, etc. but OMG I've always been horny!!!!  And that is my one fear as I approach T (just a few weeks and I'll have my letter!! YAY!!).  I'm currently partner-less and I'm not one to go out and have one night stands, so it's just me and my prosthetic...  So it's normal to have a healthy sex drive, it's normal to be a virgin if you're waiting for the right time, the right person, and waiting to figure yourself out.  Heck, at this moment I have no idea what my orientation even is.  I identified as a straight female my whole life, and was totally attracted to men, but now as I transition to male, i can't imagine myself being in a relationship with a male at all, that I don't identify as gay  male.  I'm really starting to think I identify as straight male, and am interested in ladies.  Very odd indeed.

You do what you gotta do.  Hang in there!

Jay

[Elwood]

I'd love to be as a guy, with a guy. But it's tough. I seem to really like straight men. But I would never get on my back and open my legs for a guy. I'm not that much in love with them, haha...

I will flirt with girls, but I don't think I could be in a relationship with one. They say I lead them on. I don't mean to... I just like poking fun.

[Nero]

Oh, trust me Jay. I've TRIED to make it work out. But it felt weird. It didn't feel right. It felt like something definitely SHOULDN'T be going in there.

I felt that way too at first. I think it's a primal reaction. But now I could never do without it.

[James-Alen]

Well, let me give you s piece of advice that will do you good the rest of your life, what you want and what you get are two very, very different things. Thus, make due and make special what you can get your paws on

[Elwood]

That IS good advice. I think I might end up like a lot of the guys who don't do anything except medio (which is releasing the clitoris from under the clitoria hood surgically) because phallo absolutely disgusts me, and I can't seem to find one that doesn't disgust me.

Not that I hate all guys who have phallo or anything. I would just hate that to be MY body...