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Deep Stealth or Activist?

Started by MaggieB, July 01, 2008, 11:49:02 AM

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Chrissty

I've decided to risk some negative reputation here !

..I must be missing something, but I'm just finding all this female activist talk very Macho.

I realise things must different in the USA from a law and culture point of view, but in in the UK I am having difficulty in
seeing anything I want to fight to change. OK, there are still some significant disparities but we've already had a female
Prime Minister, and many of our laws are now set up to protect the female in society, employment, and health.

I want to transition to adopt my inner gender, to fit into a role I feel is my nature, and not to set about changing it get parity
with my birth sex.

I have a family, and I would give my life for my childern and their future hapiness. My female soul will contine to watch me rip myself apart
until it feels there is a chance of acceptance in transition. The day is nearing, as my children are growing older and we are beginning to
discuss love and gender issues together.

It the last 20 years I have grown to realise that it's the same female side preventing me transitioning, that is generating the basic need.
This is simply because I care so much for those around at such a deeply emotional level, I will always put their needs above my own until
such a time as I feel I can limit the damage I will cause.

I came to this site because so much of what you all discuss is to further the cause of the transgendered, which to me is a much more
beautiful and noble cause than feminism.

I have already made it to the front pages of the nationals before on a different subject, and have paid the price.

My basic plan is therefore one of stealth with what is left of my life.


Chrissty



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whatsername

Quote from: Chrissty on July 06, 2008, 03:14:59 PMI came to this site because so much of what you all discuss is to further the cause of the transgendered, which to me is a much more
beautiful and noble cause than feminism.

My feminism is rooted in an ideal of equality.  Not to make us all the same, but to disable the social system which defines us all against our wills, to allow for individuality and self definition, instead of conformity or death.

What that means for me is that the issues of the LGBTQI's are a part of feminism, the issues of women of color are a part of feminism, the issues of the disabled, the poor, the young, the old, the fat, the skinny...all of the various ways in which women are forced into boxes and denied an equal shot at making our way in the world.  Simply striving for middle class white women to gain an equal foothold in this ->-bleeped-<-ed up system....?  No.

That's not to say anything about the choice that sparked this thread.  I think people have every right to simply live stealth.  Not everyone is built for activism, and that's fine.
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joannatsf

I think the UK may be much farther ahead of the USA in women's rights.  Nearly half your MPs are female, 125 out of 261.  The US Congress has 88 females out of 535 seats, about 16%.  I don't think I'd be bragging about Maggie Thatcher though.
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jenny_

Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 06, 2008, 06:15:31 PM
I think the UK may be much farther ahead of the USA in women's rights.  Nearly half your MPs are female, 125 out of 261.  The US Congress has 88 females out of 535 seats, about 16%.  I don't think I'd be bragging about Maggie Thatcher though.

Not quite sure about your numbers.  125 female MPs sounds about right, but thats out of about 650 total, nowhere near half and percentagewise is similar to congress.
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Drik

Quote from: jenny_ on July 06, 2008, 06:31:11 PM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 06, 2008, 06:15:31 PM
I think the UK may be much farther ahead of the USA in women's rights.  Nearly half your MPs are female, 125 out of 261.  The US Congress has 88 females out of 535 seats, about 16%.  I don't think I'd be bragging about Maggie Thatcher though.

Not quite sure about your numbers.  125 female MPs sounds about right, but thats out of about 650 total, nowhere near half and percentagewise is similar to congress.

Out 169 of 349 MPs are women here in Sweden.
Thats 48.2%. We win. ;)
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jenny_

Quote from: Chrissty on July 06, 2008, 03:14:59 PM
..I must be missing something, but I'm just finding all this female activist talk very Macho.

I realise things must different in the USA from a law and culture point of view, but in in the UK I am having difficulty in
seeing anything I want to fight to change. OK, there are still some significant disparities but we've already had a female
Prime Minister, and many of our laws are now set up to protect the female in society, employment, and health.

...

I came to this site because so much of what you all discuss is to further the cause of the transgendered, which to me is a much more
beautiful and noble cause than feminism.

We have the laws to protect almost all minorities now but thats not the same as gaining equality.  In fact the law protecting transsexuals is almost a word for word copy of the law protecting women from discrimination.  So i don't see how you can be satisfied with one of them but not the other.

You might be right in our situation being better than some other countries, but UK women have not gained equality by a long stretch imo.  Why else would Harriet Harman be pushing through another Equality Bill if it wasn't needed?

For me the most beautiful and noble cause is for every human being on this planet to be treated fairly and for everybody to have an equal opportunity in everything they do and for every person to feel empowered to achieve their dreams, regardless of their sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, race, religion, country, age, or colour of hair.  And that cause is worth fighting for until its achieved by all.

jenny

Posted on: July 07, 2008, 12:54:29 AM
Quote from: Drik on July 06, 2008, 06:37:29 PM
Out 169 of 349 MPs are women here in Sweden.
Thats 48.2%. We win. ;)

30 out of 60 in the welsh parliament, thats 50% so there  :P
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Drik

Quote from: jenny_ on July 06, 2008, 07:02:05 PM
30 out of 60 in the welsh parliament, thats 50% so there  :P

Darn :P
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NicholeW.

Quote from: Chrissty on July 06, 2008, 03:14:59 PM
I've decided to risk some negative reputation here !

A decidedly poor way to begin a post.  :laugh: Is it a dare? A wish? A ploy to attempt to get someone to give negative rep so you can say "I knew it?"

Beginning by asking for a negative result is to tempt it. English Writing 101: "don't ask people to tear you apart." Never a good idea for anyone.  :) In fact, akin, imo, to walking into a pub and calling out for a fight to any bloke there who's willing. Something that, in light of the next sentence,  is terribly ironic.  :)

Quote..I must be missing something, but I'm just finding all this female activist talk very Macho.

I take it you don't take to "female activists?"  ???  Any particular reasons why? To have "female activist talk" for me is to have human talk. A talk that from the perspective of "intersectionality" or the way I found my therapy-work, relational-cultural theory: an understanding that many people play both dominant and subordinate roles in many aspects of their lives, embarces all human beings, not simply women. The black man, the white woman, the transsexual of either sex or any ethnic group are all intersected by different forms of conditioning.

To focus on only on the aspect of my life that is/was transsexual is to ignore a vast array of areas that also affect my life: woman, mother, partner-lover, student, worker, thinker, speaker, friend, father, aquaintance, moderator, sister, ex, stranger, caucasian American, southern American, ex-military, ex-chef, ex-fundamentalist Christian, pagan, Mother's daughter, former male-gendered, etc. To hold myself out as only transsexual, as you may see, severely limits the range of my own being. It denies parts of me that I would lose to my own crippling if I were to ignore or deny them, see any as less than any other.


QuoteI realise things must different in the USA from a law and culture point of view, but in in the UK I am having difficulty in
seeing anything I want to fight to change. OK, there are still some significant disparities but we've already had a female
Prime Minister, and many of our laws are now set up to protect the female in society, employment, and health.

Perhaps, but it seems to me that Brits are composites of many different individual aspects as well.

QuoteI want to transition to adopt my inner gender, to fit into a role I feel is my nature, and not to set about changing it get parity
with my birth sex.

I have a family, and I would give my life for my childern and their future hapiness. My female soul will contine to watch me rip myself apart
until it feels there is a chance of acceptance in transition. The day is nearing, as my children are growing older and we are beginning to
discuss love and gender issues together.

It the last 20 years I have grown to realise that it's the same female side preventing me transitioning, that is generating the basic need.
This is simply because I care so much for those around at such a deeply emotional level, I will always put their needs above my own until
such a time as I feel I can limit the damage I will cause.

I came to this site because so much of what you all discuss is to further the cause of the transgendered, which to me is a much more
beautiful and noble cause than feminism.

I have already made it to the front pages of the nationals before on a different subject, and have paid the price.

My basic plan is therefore one of stealth with what is left of my life.

Chrissty

And is there any of that life, those decisions, that you feel less about or would change?

Perhaps that's why you barged into a discussion and felt you could toss a couple of things out that very much could be read as insulting and could very well have caused a brouhaha: because you knew that sisters wouldn't bash another sister regardless of what she said about us? Because, finally, I think women, androgynes, and men, do get your frustration, do get that you find the things we have been talking about here not important to you. And for those very good reasons, I just don't think you are likely to see a smite, Chrissty. Your opinion is yours. I honor that and the path that led you to that opinion.

Why would any of us bash a sister when she spoke her own mind, from her own perspective, even if the "Macho" barb she tried to cast was possibly meant to hurt and possibly to try to "guilt" someone into stopping their conversation?

How does any of us lower the rep of someone who has struggled and only wants to rest, to be herself? I think you will find that every woman, man and androgyne who has posted on this thread only wants that: the opportunity to be themselves. That is the goal of feminism: not a false and enforced equality, but a clear and honoring understanding of and respect for difference in groups, individuals, the entire universe. One is not better than another, but neither is one the same as any other.

The goal, my dear, is the liberation of us all, and the ability for us each to see that to honor the other's journey is to honor my own journey.

It's not about %of MPs or % of legislators, % of w, x, y & z in a work-force, or at the club. It's about recognizing our common humanity and understanding that what moves one isn't better than what moves another in most cases, it's simply different in some cases. We can all live healthily and peacefully with that.

Mother's Peace go with you, luv,  :icon_bunch: :icon_hug: :icon_hug:

Nichole







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joannatsf

Quote from: jenny_ on July 06, 2008, 06:31:11 PM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 06, 2008, 06:15:31 PM
I think the UK may be much farther ahead of the USA in women's rights.  Nearly half your MPs are female, 125 out of 261.  The US Congress has 88 females out of 535 seats, about 16%.  I don't think I'd be bragging about Maggie Thatcher though.

Not quite sure about your numbers.  125 female MPs sounds about right, but thats out of about 650 total, nowhere near half and percentagewise is similar to congress.

Oops!
  •  

NicholeW.

Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 06, 2008, 09:05:17 PM
Quote from: jenny_ on July 06, 2008, 06:31:11 PM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 06, 2008, 06:15:31 PM
I think the UK may be much farther ahead of the USA in women's rights.  Nearly half your MPs are female, 125 out of 261.  The US Congress has 88 females out of 535 seats, about 16%.  I don't think I'd be bragging about Maggie Thatcher though.

Not quite sure about your numbers.  125 female MPs sounds about right, but thats out of about 650 total, nowhere near half and percentagewise is similar to congress.

Oops!
:laugh: :laugh: Perhaps you should have "googled," Claire?  >:D




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Chrissty

Firstly an apology, I'm afraid this topic ended up hitting a raw nerve with me, and I posted in haste, which I accept is a bad thing in this type of discussion.

I specifically apologise to those of you who may feel personally offended by what I posted, I realise with hindsight that my approach was inapropriate.

Thank you ALL for taking the time to respond thoughtfully, and particularly thank you to Nichole for your kind advice..Level headed as ever..


SORRY    :icon_bunch: :icon_bunch: :icon_bunch:


I was going to follow my apology with an explanation of why?... but the reasons are complicated and this is not a good time, or place to explore them.

Suffice to say that I get emotionally charged and passionate about so much of what I do, it is extremely difficult to not let this show at times..

...I also have a terrible tendency to not do things the easy way....

:icon_hug:

Chrissty




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joannatsf

Quote from: Nichole on July 06, 2008, 11:17:11 PM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 06, 2008, 09:05:17 PM
Quote from: jenny_ on July 06, 2008, 06:31:11 PM
Quote from: Claire de Lune on July 06, 2008, 06:15:31 PM
I think the UK may be much farther ahead of the USA in women's rights.  Nearly half your MPs are female, 125 out of 261.  The US Congress has 88 females out of 535 seats, about 16%.  I don't think I'd be bragging about Maggie Thatcher though.

Not quite sure about your numbers.  125 female MPs sounds about right, but thats out of about 650 total, nowhere near half and percentagewise is similar to congress.


Oops!
:laugh: :laugh: Perhaps you should have "googled," Claire?  >:D

I did!  But all I got was a bunch of hits for Claire Danes and Claire Booth Luce!   :o :o





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NicholeW.

Christty,

We all have things that grab us and shake us. Those things we are likely simply to react to and not weigh consequences and ramifications for. No harm nor bad feelings in your case. Such things call for consideration and attempts at understanding.

You have those, at least from me. More problematic are the attempts by unregistered comediennes to use their wit to practice for their next gig at Joe's Bar!!  :laugh: :laugh: >:D

You may want to make a totally new thread about what bothers you about "female activists" and how that plays out in your life on another thread. I've been told that there's room for new threads when I click the "New Topic" toggle on the upper right. *smile*

Claire, I even understand that that will work in "Humor" as well!!  >:D

Nichole   
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Chrissty

Can somebody let me know where Joe's Bar is...

...and how do I sign up for the "Open Mike" night...

...shhh!.... don't let Nichole know... ::)

Chrissty
  •  

NicholeW.

Quote from: Chrissty on July 07, 2008, 11:16:49 AM
Can somebody let me know where Joe's Bar is...

...and how do I sign up for the "Open Mike" night...

...shhh!.... don't let Nichole know... ::)

Chrissty

It's seemed an innocuous name to me, I figured there might well be one in SF where Claire is living and I know that in the 70s and 80s there there was a "Joe's Bierhaus" in Charlottenburg, Berlin, German Republic on the Kaiserdamm where Masurenallee, Heerstrasse and Reichsstrasse intersected. *smile* I saw Steppenwolf there in 1981!! *smile*

There was also a Joe's Bar and Grill in Green Hills, Nashville, TN on Hillsboro Pike during the 90s, been 10 years since I've been in Nashville in Green Hills. I saw John Prine there once. And the great thing was later I walked across Hillsboro Road and saw Mary Chapin Carpenter at the Bluebird Cafe on the same night!!  :)

So, Joe's Bars do exist in a number of places!!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'd love to see your performance Christty, if I can get there!!    ;D

Love,

Nichole
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Alex

I was going to post this and then I wasn't and now I am again because I think it's still relevant to the OP.

I live in Britain too and most public protests, regardless of the reason have been at least 50% female.  Yes we've had a female prime minister and yes we have tough laws regarding gender equality but that's because there are a lot of tough British women willing to fight to get there.  I'm not comparing us to any other country here, I speak only of the culture I've lived in and observed personally.

I've had a lot of strong female role models in my life and I hope one day I can grow up to be just as strong a woman as they are, whether as a stalwart for women's rights or for trans rights or anyone's rights.

I believe in living your life honestly as an example for others and you could argue that makes me an activist.

Edit: That should say most public protests I've seen.
  •  

Mister

Quote from: Nichole on July 07, 2008, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Chrissty on July 07, 2008, 11:16:49 AM
Can somebody let me know where Joe's Bar is...

...and how do I sign up for the "Open Mike" night...

...shhh!.... don't let Nichole know... ::)

Chrissty

It's seemed an innocuous name to me, I figured there might well be one in SF where Claire is living and I know that in the 70s and 80s there there was a "Joe's Bierhaus" in Charlottenburg, Berlin, German Republic on the Kaiserdamm where Masurenallee, Heerstrasse and Reichsstrasse intersected. *smile* I saw Steppenwolf there in 1981!! *smile*

There was also a Joe's Bar and Grill in Green Hills, Nashville, TN on Hillsboro Pike during the 90s, been 10 years since I've been in Nashville in Green Hills. I saw John Prine there once. And the great thing was later I walked across Hillsboro Road and saw Mary Chapin Carpenter at the Bluebird Cafe on the same night!!  :)

So, Joe's Bars do exist in a number of places!!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'd love to see your performance Christty, if I can get there!!    ;D

Love,

Nichole

Oh, the bluebird cafe...  *sighs in memory*
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Shana A

Going back a page or so to male privilege. I don't believe we (trans women, male born androgynes, etc) can look at male privilege in a vacuum, there are varying degrees of it, plus many intersections with other isms such as race, ethnic background, class, religion, gender, etc.

For example, I was born w/ male body in a white middle class family. So, no question that I have male privilege, even though I started to reject it as soon as I understood what it meant. But I am also queer, and perceived as such by other kids from an early age. I was often persecuted for being queer or sissy throughout childhood. So, even though born white male, some (not all) of my privilege was measured against being simultaneously queer. I am also Jewish, and have experienced anti-Semitism. So my white male privilege was countered by this too, and thus my life has been very different from that of an upper class white heterosexual Christian male.

One interesting thing about my experience is the concept of passing, which was part of my awareness long before I realized I was trans. At first glance, I can be perceived as white male. I might not be known to be queer or Jewish unless I out myself. Which I've sometimes had to do, for example when in a situation of hearing a homophobic or anti-Semitic comment. My experience as both white male and other was good training in many ways for when I came to realize myself as being gender variant. And because of this, I make a conscious effort to reject privilege. But, I also have to accept that I carry this unwanted baggage with me whether I choose to use it or not.

Zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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