Deep Stealth or Activist?

[Janet_Girl]

You have a point there, Drik.  But locker rooms are not fun for any of us.

I stand corrected.

Much Love,
Janet

[Drik]

True - I have been using the mens locker room for 5 months and Im not even on T yet.
I dont shower tho. Post-op MtFs shouldnt have any problems with locker rooms tho (most people wont think "omg a ->-bleeped-<-" if they see someone with breasts and female genitalia. No matter how much hair they have.).

Oh well, Im not sure what Im trying to say, its 2:47am here

[sneakersjay]

Drik, you just gotta invest in a great prosthetic!  That's what I plan on doing.

Jay

[Drik]

Uhm, yeh. Ive tested prosthetics.
From FtM Prosthetics from Australia.
With his glue (ive tried a small flaccid, and one medium dual) they will fall off when you sweat.
At least thats what they did on me. >.>

[sneakersjay]

Uhm, yeh. Ive tested prosthetics.
From FtM Prosthetics from Australia.
With his glue (ive tried a small flaccid, and one medium dual) they will fall off when you sweat.
At least thats what they did on me. >.>

Interesting.  The people I've contacted on other lists that have either the ftm or lola jake say that they don't come off easily for at least 2 days.  Did you use the extra strength adhesive?  Maybe body chemistry does have something to do with it.  Hmmm.

Jay (who really wants an ftm product!)

[Drik]

Interesting.  The people I've contacted on other lists that have either the ftm or lola jake say that they don't come off easily for at least 2 days.  Did you use the extra strength adhesive?  Maybe body chemistry does have something to do with it.  Hmmm.

Jay (who really wants an ftm product!)

Ah, interesting. Could be because I tested them in a sauna though, and at the gym.
Could also have something to do with body chemistry. I guess I should mention that I would not be able to afford prosthetics. I and a couple of other FtMs are working on a prosthesis project in Sweden. We applied for money and bought two prostheses. FtMs are now able to get prostheses subscribed when they are diagnosed with GID (in Stockholm). Oh my. Im so OT. Sorry!

[Yvonne]

Thought this topic was about deep stealth or activist & not FTM prosthetics

[Drik]

Yeah, I know. >.>

If one is an activist during transition (until srs or new legal gender) isnt it very hard to go deep stealth afterwards? I mean, if ones name is all over the place, then one would have to change ones name. Personally, I think that if I stopped being an activist and decided to go deep stealth, then I would loose many of my friends. Cause, if one goes deep stealth, one will be outed if one hang around queers and transpeople, right? I dont know

[Sarah]

"Deep Stealth or Activist"

You make it sound like it's some sort of dualistic choice; it must be one or the other.
Did it ever occur to you that people can just be "out"?
Not hiding but not fighting either?
That is an option.
A lot of people do it.
Most people who are out do help in some sort of activism, but not all, and it's certainly not a requirement.
One can just be "out".
-Sara

[joannatsf]

Yeah, I know. >.>

If one is an activist during transition (until srs or new legal gender) isnt it very hard to go deep stealth afterwards? I mean, if ones name is all over the place, then one would have to change ones name. Personally, I think that if I stopped being an activist and decided to go deep stealth, then I would loose many of my friends. Cause, if one goes deep stealth, one will be outed if one hang around queers and transpeople, right? I dont know

Most of my best friends are queers and transpeople.  I won't date men that don't identify as bi or queer.  Becoming part of the queer community has been liberating and I don't want to return to the straight world.  I was miserable there as a man and I don't think being woman will be much better.  As an FTM you're gaining male privilege.  As MTFs we lose it.   

I accept that others may feel differently but but for me stealth sounds an awful lot like closeted.

[Drik]

Most of my best friends are queers and transpeople.  I won't date men that don't identify as bi or queer.  Becoming part of the queer community has been liberating and I don't want to return to the straight world.  I was miserable there as a man and I don't think being woman will be much better.  As an FTM you're gaining male privilege.  As MTFs we lose it.   

I accept that others may feel differently but but for me stealth sounds an awful lot like closeted.

I'm not really sure why you quoted me. I wasnt trying to say that you cant have trans or queer friends when you're done transitioning. I meant that its hard to live stealth if yuo have a lot of friends who are transgendered. Im sorry if I didnt make any sense earlier, or if Im not making any sense now. Explaining what I think and believe is not something Im good at :/
Unfortunately, many MtFs still think that they have male privilege (im not talking about anyone here) even after many years as legally female and many FtMs refuse to accept that they've gained male privilege.

[joannatsf]

Most of my best friends are queers and transpeople.  I won't date men that don't identify as bi or queer.  Becoming part of the queer community has been liberating and I don't want to return to the straight world.  I was miserable there as a man and I don't think being woman will be much better.  As an FTM you're gaining male privilege.  As MTFs we lose it.   

I accept that others may feel differently but but for me stealth sounds an awful lot like closeted.

I'm not really sure why you quoted me. I wasnt trying to say that you cant have trans or queer friends when you're done transitioning. I meant that its hard to live stealth if yuo have a lot of friends who are transgendered. Im sorry if I didnt make any sense earlier, or if Im not making any sense now. Explaining what I think and believe is not something Im good at :/
Unfortunately, many MtFs still think that they have male privilege (im not talking about anyone here) even after many years as legally female and many FtMs refuse to accept that they've gained male privilege.

No offense was intended.  I think I come off in writing as much more strident than I really am.  In making decisions about how to live ones life there are very few absolutes.  We all choose the paths that seem most appropriate to us.  It's easy for MtFs to forget our reduced circumstance in regards to male privilege    I'm guilty of it myself on occasion.  We need to develop different strategies to get our way.  Feminine wiles I think it's called!

[Kate]

It's easy for MtFs to forget our reduced circumstance in regards to male privilege 

For example... ?

I'm not really sure I know what "male privilege" is? Or was, lol?

~Kate~

[Dorothy]

Its easy for MtFs to forget our reduced circumstance in regards to male privilege 

For example... ?

Im not really sure I know what male privilege is? Or was, lol?

~Kate~

Me neither.  Lol

[SarahFaceDoom]

Male privilege is like that notion that guys have that whenever they are talking they must be listened to because they are guys.  Male privilege is a whole slew of things most guys and most girls don't even think about, that exist because of centuries of oppression of females. 

Male privilege is anything that you come into as an advantage of being male, or having been male, which exists because of oppression.

White privilege is another thing like that.

[Dorothy]

Guess it doesnt apply to me then.  Ive always been the one oppressed by men. When my Grs is done sometime next year, my trans world will end with it. Yea some peeps will still know but I wont be pontificating about it anymore.

[joannatsf]

It's easy for MtFs to forget our reduced circumstance in regards to male privilege 

For example... ?

I'm not really sure I know what "male privilege" is? Or was, lol?

~Kate~

Here we go Kate, Feminism 101    This is an excerpt of a longer essay you might want to look at.

When Worlds Collide: Fandom and Male Privilege by Lucy Gillam

[/b]
We live in a culture of male privilege.

I mean, you all do know that, right? I'm not breaking anything to you? Cool.

Male privilege may be more obvious in other cultures, but in so-called Western culture it's still ubiquitous. In fact, it's so ubiquitous that it's invisible. It is so pervasive as to be normalized, and so normalized as to be visible only in its absence. The vast, vast, vast majority of institutions, spaces, and subcultures privilege male interests, but because male is the default in this culture, such interests are very often considered ungendered. As a result, we only really notice when something privileges female interests.

This results in, well, lots of things, but two that I want to talk about here. The first is that true gender equality is actually perceived as inequality. A group that is made up of 50% women is perceived as being mostly women. A situation that is perfectly equal between men and women is perceived as being biased in favor of women.

And if you don't believe me, you've never been a married woman who kept her family name. I have had students hold that up as proof of my "sexism." My own brother told me that he could never marry a woman who kept her name because "everyone would know who ruled that relationship." Perfect equality - my husband keeps his name and I keep mine – is held as a statement of superiority on my part.

[Drik]

Oh, and theres also the master suppression techniques.

[SarahFaceDoom]

Guess it doesnt apply to me then.  Ive always been the one oppressed by men.

That doesn't mean you didn't receive male privilege.  I would posit that the price difference between the surgeries that a MTF has vs. a FTM is as a result of male privilege in medical advancements which are the direct result of how long the medical field has been a boy's club, that very rarely considered that women might need diffrent types of care for their bodies.

I would say the media coverage that focuses disproportionately upon MTF trans members is as a result of male privilege.  I would say the notion that some MTF who think only about their own side of transition and not about our FTM brothers side of transition, is as a result of male privilige.

I think if at any time in this society you've been male, you've been somewhat conditioned to believe you are special and you will do great things, which is in stark contrast historically to the lives of many of our sisters who have been told from day one implicitly or explicitly that they were garbage and the best they could do is to end up with a man and kick out babies. 

How ludicrous is it that we've been conditioned to think that taking a man's name in marriage and giving up your own is a testament of love.  It's not a testament of love, it's a testament of the conditioning of mental slavery.  I'm not your property, so why should I have your name on me?  But you tell a guy that, and it's radical.  That's male privilige.  The expectation without even thinking about it, of pre-emenence.  And it's everywhere still today.  For the trans community to think it's somehow immune to that is incredibly arrogant.

Most guys it doesn't even really register to them that they make more then women in this country, and that they are routinely given precedence for leadership positions and promotions.  As always compare the secretarial pool vs. the board of directors at any given company.  That tells you all you need to know about how far we still have to go.

[Dorothy]

I did this to be as normal as a genetic female as possible.  After my Grs, I plan to tell nobody leave all this crap behind me.