I am having penis surgery and need a ticker

[trannyboy]

Ok your statement about clitoral size is incorrect I will give two links, One is wiki clit site and the other is a MRI study done on healthy (non FTM) woman and you will get an idea just how large the clit is and the structure that make it up. Please, Please read it before posting further. It is critical to this discussion.

Clicking on the pics enlarges them- http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1283096

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoris

This is a great site written for people with and without a medical background, everyone should read it.
http://www.the-clitoris.com/n_html/c_size.htm

Okay, the penis, prostate and testicles are separate organs. You have the penis and prostate but as far as I know you don't have balls (or at least that is my case). The prostate and penis don't produce hormones and isn't an endocrine gland, however the prostate does produce enzymes and an exocrine gland. I can't offer real testicles which are the endocrine glands, we just can't make them yet, so silicone balls will have to do for me but maybe by the time surgery is right for you they will be able. However until then you will still need to provide hormones to your body and won't father kids.

You might not have medical training but I do and I have spent my life finding creative solutions that other didn't see. I also spent a great deal of childhood in medical libraries. I have consulted with multiple experts while designing each step of the surgery down to the tiniest twist of tissue. It is hard but not impossible and it was only unethical to do this when we weren't sure we could graft nerves properly. Now we are doing it for other heath issues and it is no longer unethical or impossible.

->-bleeped-<-boy

[Nero]

First may I just say congrats on your surgery, ->-bleeped-<- boy.

But despite all this technical stuff you two are going on about - bottom line is you're taking a big risk. What does any of this matter if you lose the ability to orgasm?

[Elwood]

First, I see no urgency in reading the clitoral diagrams/descriptions, as you are certain on your position and proof doesn't make a difference. As I said before, I don't care how the ->-bleeped-<- it happens, so long as it happens. It doesn't have to make sense.

As for what I said, you aren't understanding. The penis, testicles, and prostate are all part of what biologists tend to call a system. The testicles are part of the endocrine system but they are also part of the reproductive system. Organs work as part of a system and need other parts of that system to sustain them. For instance, without the pancreas, thyroid, kidneys, liver, colon, and intestines, your stomach wouldn't do you a great deal of good. The thyroid is part of the endocrine system but it also maintains the body's metabolism, and thus is a major key element in the digestive process. This applies to the testicles and prostate as well when discussing the reproductive system. The reproductive system's function is to reproduce, but if the testicles and prostate were needed only for reproduction, men could easily sustain penises without these organs. The fact is, you plan to build a partial organ from scratch and junk parts, where that may as well do what you want it to, it is not constructed from the genetic map that makes a penis look like a penis. I am now referring to its external anatomy, which has not ever been properly recreated in any of the phalloplasties I have seen. It doesn't appear to be an easy thing to replicate, regardless of whether or not you stuff it with erectile tissue.

You are giving yourself heaps of credit, proclaiming your unfounded genius, but what you don't seem to get is that none of that matters. If Stephen Hawking was wrong about black holes after his half a century of study, he'd be wrong, despite the fact he's studied for over half a century. Studying for a long time and even having a lot of knowledge does not make you perfect or always correct. Regardless of my education, I have a right to question, and if your answer is, "I'm smarter than you," then your answer isn't good enough.

Instead of refraining and assuming I can't understand your "science talk," speak the goddamn word instead of shoving me off like I'm some dumb barbarian.

You're all talk. That's what people on the internet are. Talk. If you were designing the thousands of "twists" of tissue in each and every procedure (which takes hours, mind you) you wouldn't have time to proclaim your genius to a group of strangers. I feel like you're waving a bone at me, except it isn't a bone at all, and you're not even waving it. You're talking about waving a bone that theoretically doesn't even exist. Do you understand the metaphor or must I repeat it?

As for Nero's comment, I'm not sure what he was saying, but I'd probably rather not have a penis and orgasm than have one and never hope to see the light at the end of the tunnel. My sex life is already a wreck (because lacking a penis has rendered me a hermit and I refuse to be intimate with anyone from the fear of rejection) and I don't want to lose my only chance to have a somewhat normal sex life.

[trannyboy]

Nero- I haven't orgasmed for real with a partner, won't with my body this way and will chance giving up them on my own for a chance with my partner. If that doesn't works for you fine but it does for me. I have been given a 70% chance of full return of full function in 2 years with a 25% chance of some change in nerve function with a more natural penis with erection then the phallo and a 5% chance of total failure. I like my odds.

If I was asking for a phallo I would have the same risks and even not touching the clit I could lose all sexual function if something goes wrong. However if I was sure I was going to be forced to live the rest of my life without being able to share myself with my partner or be comfortable with my body and I would kill myself. I am dead serious. The only reason I transitioned instead of killing myself was to fix this mistake. If I can't do that I don't want half a life. I am glad you are happy enough with your body not to take this risk and please don't if you are. I am not.

Elwood- Man, I don't know if I missed something or didn't put a smiley face but I meant no offense to you. I thought we were just talking, whatever I did to offend you I am sorry. I was only concerned because the vast majority of people, doctors included don't understand the true anatomy of the female genitals. It is the first point I try to make when explaining this surgery because without it people can't believe that the clit is so large. You asked me for articles to back up what I am saying and I have provided them.

I have never said anything about functioning testicles, the prostate which women have, is capable in some, myself being one of producing ejaculate but without the testicles there is still no sperm or hormones. All I am suggesting is a penis that get erect when aroused and like it already does; it should be sensate but may be slightly decreased due to additional tissue around it.This should be like the base of a phallo wrapped around a meta which guys report as being sufficient for orgasm.

A man without a prostate can still have sex, impregnant (though chances are lower), urinate and otherwise function with his dick; as well a man with testicles can still function likewise with TRT but can't get someone pregnant, as well a man without a dick can still orgasm and cum and get someone pregnant. Men can even have their entire prostate removed including the nerves to the penis and have grafts and still function normally. The whole system doesn't crash just because it isn't complete. It just isn't complete.

You need to stop thinking about the genetics because if that is your goal you aren't talking about surgery anymore. I am not able to help you nor is anybody that I know of but please feel free to study this. The penis is just a big clitoris. The genitals are under skin which can be expanded and if you put cultured skin cells underneath in the same form as the original shape. It will retain it's structure and be large enough to resemble a penis. It can look a damn sight better then a phallo because it has the same color, texture and form of a penis because it is a penis. A phallo no matter how good can't offer that.

The main thing to avoid is damaging the underlying fascia because that will reduce or destroy the ability to have firm straight erections. The other issues is enough skin so the penis isn't forced to retract during erection and ensuring proper pressure remains on the crura so that upon expansion of the vessels during erection, blood can't flow back out during orgasm. This can achieved through a small piece of tension free vaginal tape that will also solve any problems with urinary stress incontinence. This is the option I have chosen. Alternatively placing the crura behind the top of the clitoral bulbs will also achieve that. So obtain and maintaining an erection isn't that hard otherwise most MTFs and FTMs with metas would lose function when they have similar surgeries done.

I have spent the last 3 years in constant (18hr a day if not more) study, communication and work on this. I wasn't being extreme, I have been collecting that level of detailed information from the experts. It is all out there if you want to read it and it starts with either you studying or waiting and seeing but please don't be abusive, I am not trying to. I am who I am, I don't know or care if I am a genius and that isn't why I am here. I said I would keep the community up to date as I proceed into surgery. If I was still working out details within my power, I wouldn't be about to have surgery. Smarter isn't ever good enough but correct information is critical.

In terms of surgery time the clit release takes 1- 1.5hrs, each leg will take 2-3hrs, and the final surgery is expected at 5 hrs with just tissue engineering and 9-10hrs with flap. Most of the final surgery has already been done many times and Dr Perovic has published his work except for the changes with the urethraplasty which shouldn't add greatly to the time required i.e. under 15 minutes.

Finally I think this post answers most non technical question so tomorrow when I am done running around like fool. I will dig out the files and describe to you how each process is done if you would like. However if this discussion is becoming out of place, the mods can tell us to take it to PM but I prefer to do this on the board. Please let me know.

Finally I repeat, either back off until the first surgery is done to give me a chance to prove myself; accept certain statement at least in this discussion as true; or read the articles I have provided and research it yourself. I am sure you will find I am right. Anything else is summarily judging me without being able to sure of your position and it does a disservice to the discussion. Every time you have come to me with something I researched and studied what you gave me before responding. I would appreciate similar respect though it won't change how I behave.

->-bleeped-<-boy

I, however must sleep because in less then 4 hours I must get up and I have way too much to do tomorrow during the day.

Modified by ->-bleeped-<-boy due to incomprehensible writing in the middle of the night when I should have been sleeping. Sorry for all the mistakes as they greatly detracted from my post and didn't communicate entirely what I was trying to say.

[Sandy]

T-boy:

I've been following your posts quite closely.  I, personally, find them fascinating.  Your grasp of the subject is remarkable.  You have said that you have a medical background.  It really shows.

Please continue to post about your procedures.  From the sound of it, you and your surgical team are about to be pioneers in the field of FTM surgery.  I hope all turns out the way that you are hoping for.

I have had a curiosity about FTM surgery because there is such a dearth of tissue for the reconstruction.  It's not like they can turn the vagina inside out like they do with the penis for MTF surgery.  The challenges that face a surgeon and patient are not trivial.

There are more than several descriptions of MTF surgeries, mine among them.  But there are only a few that have described a complete FTM surgery.  I look forward to your upcoming posts.  In fact, you may think of having your descriptions posted to our wiki.  I think it would be beneficial to others!

-Sandy

[Elwood]

There's two possibilities. Either you were rude to me and you can't see that, or I was over sensitive and you weren't rude to me at all. The latter happens... a lot.

So I got the scale of the clitoris wrong. That doesn't really answer my other questions.

Okay, so you can ejaculate as much as a typical man without sperm or testosterone injections? That's what it sounds like you have said, and if that is so, then I am very confused. That is unusual, not something normal FtMs can do. Mind you, the stuff that comes out of the vagina is not ejaculate. When a woman ejaculates, it's usually only a little spew from the clitoris, and a lot of girls think it's pee. As for women having a prostate, I'm pretty damn certain women don't have prostates, as I have been told many times over the past year that I will never have a real penis because I don't have a prostate.

And again, you've missed my point in mentioning the prostate and testicles. I am NOT just talking about SEX here. I am talking about SUSTAINING THE ORGAN. For instance, your heart would not function without a brain, nor would most of your other organs. The required processes of the penis, including sustaining it's size and function, relies on the other organs. No organ is entirely self-sustaining in the human body. That's why we're called an organism instead of a collective.

The penis is not just a big clitoris. The clitoris does not have a urethra running through it, and the clitoris does not have a foreskin or scrotum. The clitoris is not rooted as deep as the penis and the clitoris is not connected to a set of other organs involved in the reproductive system. For being so damn educated, you've made a major medical misconception just now, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't spread fallacious medical information.

The clitoris ORIGINATES from the same cell pallet in the fetus. This DOES NOT make it the same organ. This is like saying the ovaries and testicles are the same organ because they essentially have the same function, but both you and I know that they are very different in anatomy and function. Genetics are relevant in EVERY surgery, and I find it almost humorous that you'd disregard them.

If you study 18 hours a day, how do you have time to come on this website, manage to go to work, support yourself, and sleep and eat? Sir, there are only 24 hours in a day. If you aren't sleeping enough, your brain is not going to retain all of that information. And not even Harvard offers an 18 hour a day program to study specifically genitals. Maybe the entire body, from the longest hair on your head to the last toe nail; much information that would be irrelevant to your study. And even then, no school would allow you to have over 20 units in a single semester-- that is, if you're studying at a school, which is vastly different than studying at a library or on the internet (which is never to be trusted).

You are all talk. You think you can crop up some magical files-- which don't exist-- because you still think I'm daft enough to fall for it. Anyone with nuts for brains or more knows that no medical researcher would release his most personal research to the public. It's copywrited or patented, or will be, and if you were to spill all of it online, someone could easily take it and use as their own. The scientific community is the most competitive which is why most work tends to be done privately instead of publicly by a major company of workers-- people want some vaccine or surgery named after them, and they'll do anything to fall "into history" so that mommy and daddy are proud of them. I am not accusing you or this, but if you really were a doctor, you'd know how the medical research works, and it certainly doesn't work by handing strangers incomplete works of a research project.

I guess that's the next question. You study more than any doctor I know, but do you have a Ph.D to account for? Are you even really a doctor or are you exactly who I think you are?

I believe this discussion is perfectly on topic because I have justly questioned your supposed scientific expertise. I will not have anyone tell crackpot stories to these good people.

[trannyboy]

Elwood- I am sorry I offended you, will you forgive me? Please know that sometimes I don't see things as offensive that society and people do find offensive. If I have done or said something or if I do or say something that you find offensive please tell me and I will listen to you, ok? If I can change something I will. Fair enough?

Also I read through my post from last night and I saw so many little problems in it that I am going to modify it so that I make some sense as clearly I didn't do a good job last night. Once I am done I will respond to your previous post and provide the details I promised last night. If anything needs clarification please ask. The funny thing is compared to verbally I make more sense in writing, except for last night obviously.

Oh and once I finish running the lab numbers I will be posting an update to the pellet info.

I, apologize again for last night's confusing post. I write by computer because it is the only way I can keep up with my thoughts however at times I do skip letters, words or sentences. I promise that within a couple of days I will go back and fix my mistakes. I also talk a lot, sorry about the length of my posts. I try to trim but I am not good at keeping things short and sweet.

In terms of my background. I am not a doctor of anything. I could never be bothered to stick to school that long. I am an independent learner and most of my education is self taught. However I did all the course work of elementary and high school but didn't graduate elementary or high school because I was brought out of mainstream classes in grade 4 and taught by teachers from the local school board at home. I attended a few post secondary education programmes, mainly certification programmes. I am Canadian and will use different spellings. I am a wilderness emergency medical technician (WEMT1) and participate in wilderness SAR work. I spent a few hours a week through my childhood in medical libraries while my mother or I had medical treatments and took that time to study which got me interested in medicine. My mother and many others in my family and friends are medical professionals who all contributed to my work. When the final papers are published will be recognized as they wish.

For now lets put whether we were rude or sensitive, both can happen. It's ok with me.

Before I go deeper lets identify the secretions and the parts that create them.

Pre-ejaculate is produced by the Bulbourethral glands which are in women but called the Bartholin glands. In both men and women the fluid is mostly the same. While they are positioned in different places the Bartholin glands can be connected to the urethra during urethraplasty. The other tissue that will provides precum is using the vaginal mucus as a base for the multilayer urethraplasty. This is a known  side effect of using vaginal mucus as graft material. It's main purpose is to lubricate the glans and foreskin and provide a favorable environment for sperm to pass the urethra.

Ejaculate is produced by four structures the Bulbourethral glands, prostate, testicles and seminal vesicles.

Clearly testicles produce sperm nor do women have them. We needn't go deeper. Seminal Vesicle produce about 60% of a man semen. Women do not have theses. However the vaginal secretions can make up for this. The Bulbourethral glands continue to contribute as before. Finally the prostate which in women is located inside the vagina and connects to the urethra. In woman it is called the Skene's glands though many now refer to it as the prostate. It produces the same fluid as the male prostate. Ejaculate is propelled down the urethra during orgasm which as long as the urethraplasty runs through the penis will also happen and cause ejaculation. Now do you understand what I am referring to by pre-cum and ejaculation post operatively? You are right that some people do not have ejaculation however it is far more likely in multiple orgasms even if you don't normally have it. Yes many women think it is urine, they are wrong. I am sorry you are told that a) you couldn't have a real penis b) you don't have a prostate and c) wrong information about your body. It isn't fair to deprive people of information about their bodies or possible options.

The part about the testosterone injections confuses me. Of course you will continue whatever method HRT you use. If at some point we can make testicles that produce hormones and/or sperm then that will be a different surgery. I have often said that the day I get real testicles I also get a vasectomy. I toyed briefly with the idea of testosterone releasing testicle implants but dismissed it when I considered replacing them, stabilizing the dose and my balls shrinking over time. However I don't require injections of testosterone because I use an implant. I am still able to have erections without testosterone in my system but it is a lot easier.

Again you missed my point. I am not talking about changing the world and making anyone born with something they weren't. I am saying take what my penis is and make it look better. What does sustaining the organ mean to you? It won't fall apart and stop working because it isn't a perfect replica of a man's penis. If you are talking about soft tissue structures keeping it in the right place and moving the right way, those too will be intact. Perhaps the muscle that wrap around the base of the penis or the bone structure? I don't know what you mean.

For me the main uses for a penis are sex, urination and well a penis. Sex involves blood flow, nerves, stimulation, foreskin, penile skin, heart, brain, liver, kidneys, bladder, constriction against the fascia for firmness and compression on the vessels, specific balances of gases and hormones and a few dozen things. All of which (besides a few things related to reproduction or hormones) I have and work fine currently and shouldn't be permanently damaged during surgery they will just be moved.

Urination includes proper flow and control, clear intact urethra that is flexible and in proper shape. Some areas are learned, I already have or is given by surgery. Thankfully doctor have master culturing urethral epithelium and will use that to give the needed traits.

Frankly a penis, I want a penis. I would take Dr Perovic MLD phallo if that is all I could get and I would do it in stages by getting a meta first. I want the best penis I can get.

The clitoris has a foreskin it is called the clitoral hood. the labia major is the scrotum. the clitoris is rooted much deeper then the penis. Well the penis is 75% outside the body the clitoris is 75% inside if not more. The clitoris is made up of the same corpus spongiosum, corpora cavernosa just smaller and the bulbs are bigger in woman. It is connected to the reproductive and hormone system via the vulva, vagina, multiple glands, nerves and urethra. It is responsible for orgasm which carries sperm into the vagina to the cervix, where it cause the cervix to dilate and contract to draw sperm into the uterus facilitating pregnancy.

What is relevant is what you bring to the table. Genes, hormones, stress, illness, temperature, medications, transition age, etc all effect what you can bring to the table but it and it effects it to a degree. Yeah if you had no real growth, this is only going to give you a decent meta result. Yeah if you mutilated yourself then there might be problems same with if you had surgery in pelvis. However you focus on one thing genetics. Well since no one has my genes and I can't look at close relative to see how their body reacted to a similar situation, genes can only play a limited role in my surgical process. They have already done everything they are going to do in terms of my penis.

I studied 18 hours a day before; now I am preparing my body for major surgery i.e. dental, hormonal, physical, cardiac and hematology requirements, preparation and exams. As well as eating healthily, working out, massage, medications and saline infusions. I haven't been on this website long if you will look and I joined to talk with peers and have support. I don't work, as I am on a disability pension. I am obsessive is why I worked like that and there was a lot to do. I sleep about 7 hours a day. I eat very little when I am obsessing over my work but I make sure to eat twice a day. When I am done this I am taking a break. I am a slob and hate house work. I generally ignore it. You are very right about brain dead moments and I will admit I had a few. Of course no reputable school would allow their students to destroy themselves in the name of education, I however have no such qualms especially for my penis. Actually you would be surprised just how many papers, books, essays, lectures, courses you can find about the genitals, the ways to change them and the ways they can happen. All of those areas are important plus more then a dozen other areas of medicine. Harvard med school which I assure you doesn't cover all medicine takes 7 years to complete. I have not come close to the hours put in by those who are doctors. After med school is a world of continuing learning.

Don't trust the internet but medical libraries, doctors, surgeons and specialist most of which publish regularly in journals, teach and attend conferences all of which if you are determined you can do. I do not think you are daft. Most profs and specialists are willing to answer questions and explain things if you approach them politely in the medical library with university or hospitals. Most of this research was long ago released with a few pieces still needing access to the current journals which I have. I am not talking about theoretical research but proven surgical techniques and yes it is released eventually online but I prefer the journals because it is more trustworthy. Medicine doesn't work like that, any surgeon has the right to attempt any surgery they feel competent to do and surgeons talk amongst themselves and learn from each other. They aren't worried about someone scooping their credits once they have published it. Most reputable doctors will answer close to any question or concern you have in regards to surgeries they preform.

I have no idea who you think I am except perhaps for the insults you have used. However your opinion of me doesn't matter to me, what matters is you (in this context). You are very angry and I don't really know how to help you because I don't know what it is I have done to so upset you. You say a wave a magical bone. Well that is an assumption on your part that shortly will be proven incorrect. I don't know what "crop up some magical files" means. I do get your disbelief that my files are on a SD card in my bag. Or that I will need to pull them together tonight so I can offer the scientific side you asked for?

I have no real expertise in this surgery. Knowing something doesn't make you an expert. I could never do it myself. I do however know very well what will be done to me in surgery because me and the doctor planned it out together. However I want a break for now because my reptilian brain is shouting out to protect myself. I am sorry, I just don't enjoy this type of discussion. However I will return once I have calmed down a little.

->-bleeped-<-boy

[Elwood]

Elwood- I am sorry I offended you, will you forgive me? Please know that sometimes I don't see things as offensive that society and people do find offensive. If I have done or said something or if I do or say something that you find offensive please tell me and I will listen to you, ok? If I can change something I will. Fair enough?

The only thing that really needs changing is that condescending tone. Otherwise, there is no problem with you disagreeing with me. That's called a discussion.

Also I read through my post from last night and I saw so many little problems in it that I am going to modify it so that I make some sense as clearly I didn't do a good job last night. Once I am done I will respond to your previous post and provide the details I promised last night. If anything needs clarification please ask. The funny thing is compared to verbally I make more sense in writing, except for last night obviously.

You might want to repost that post, as I won't be able to find your edits.

In terms of my background. I am not a doctor of anything. I could never be bothered to stick to school that long. I am an independent learner and most of my education is self taught. However I did all the course work of elementary and high school but didn't graduate elementary or high school because I was brought out of mainstream classes in grade 4 and taught by teachers from the local school board at home. I attended a few post secondary education programmes, mainly certification programmes. I am Canadian and will use different spellings. I am a wilderness emergency medical technician (WEMT1) and participate in wilderness SAR work. I spent a few hours a week through my childhood in medical libraries while my mother or I had medical treatments and took that time to study which got me interested in medicine. My mother and many others in my family and friends are medical professionals who all contributed to my work. When the final papers are published will be recognized as they wish.

I hate to say it, but you want to know what this tells me? That you think you're smarter than you are, because you didn't complete school, and like a lot of people, never faced any true challenges. If a person is never challenged, they think life is so easy. The thing is, if you were home schooled a standard education, you should have graduated regardless.

I know about Canadian and English spelling. Being born in California does not make me entirely ignorant to other cultures. I am German and Canadian by blood, if that helps.

As for studying general medicine, I wouldn't call that the same thing as understanding physiology, which is actually the primary focus of my concerns. The chemical processes that will be going on. The sustaining of the organ. It's functions. How these things manage to fall into place. If I build and engine, dry, with no grease, no gas, no radiator fluid, no water, it's just going to sit there. That's why I think shoving erectile tissue into a clitoris might not exactly be the solution. The brain has to somehow respond to this tissue.

Again, being related to a doctor doesn't make you one. A lot of people on the internet who proclaim their genius and make all that ->-bleeped-<- up, claiming that they know more than anyone else regardless of their background, often claim that because mommy was a nurse they know how to perform a lobotomy. Do you see my point?

Pre-ejaculate is produced by the Bulbourethral glands which are in women but called the Bartholin glands. In both men and women the fluid is mostly the same. While they are positioned in different places the Bartholin glands can be connected to the urethra during urethraplasty. The other tissue that will provides precum is using the vaginal mucus as a base for the multilayer urethraplasty. This is a known  side effect of using vaginal mucus as graft material. It's main purpose is to lubricate the glans and foreskin and provide a favorable environment for sperm to pass the urethra.

Except ejaculation in men contains sperm, and it is often referred to as semen. That stuff that squirts out everywhere is held in their testicles and seminal vacuole or something (I read ahead, seminal vesicle). That's probably one reason it's a lot more and a lot more enjoyable. I don't think there is any way to make a transman squirt all over the place without some sort of testicle substitute.

Then another thing. If tissue from the vagina is used in the surgery, is that not going to have some of the issues the phalloplasty has? It isn't the right kind of tissue.

Clearly testicles produce sperm nor do women have them. We needn't go deeper. Seminal Vesicle produce about 60% of a man semen. Women do not have theses. However the vaginal secretions can make up for this.

Question: It is not at all the same material. The consistency, smell, amount, density, etc. is all different. Isn't that going to be a bit of a problem?

Finally the prostate which in women is located inside the vagina and connects to the urethra. In woman it is called the Skene's glands though many now refer to it as the prostate.

I want to hear more that suggests this organ (that I've never heard of) is at all similar to a prostate in function and close enough that it could provide as a prostate substitute (not only chemically, but by quantity as well).

I am sorry you are told that a) you couldn't have a real penis

I still can't. Your surgery is a penis substitute. The only way for me to have a real penis would be provided through a transplant, which currently is not available to FtMs. It's hardly available to men who have lost their own in freak accidents.

I am still able to have erections without testosterone in my system but it is a lot easier.

So why are you having this surgery? Is it only a size issue?

I am saying take what my penis is and make it look better.

I know that FtMs call a big clit their penis to make themselves feel better, but while we're talking about medical parts, can we clarify?

What does sustaining the organ mean to you? It won't fall apart and stop working because it isn't a perfect replica of a man's penis.

No, but it won't be much better than a phalloplasty in my eyes if taking my pants off still scares people. It's got to be close enough to a man's penis or it isn't going to help me in the least. Other people, maybe.

As for sustaining an organ, I mean functioning properly. But since you don't intend on constructing a penis (you're still making a phallo, just a more sophisticated one) my question really isn't relevant.

The clitoris has a foreskin it is called the clitoral hood. the labia major is the scrotum.

They are not the same thing. You have a hard time understanding. They have the same origins, but they are not the same. Clearly, they are located in different places and look different. That is why people have sex changes. If they were the same, I'd be a man already (physically).

the clitoris is rooted much deeper then the penis. Well the penis is 75% outside the body the clitoris is 75% inside if not more.

In comparison to it's SIZE. But if the clitoris was extended to be as large as the penis externally, those numbers would be vastly different. You should know this.

What is relevant is what you bring to the table. Genes, hormones, stress, illness, temperature, medications, transition age, etc all effect what you can bring to the table but it and it effects it to a degree. Yeah if you had no real growth, this is only going to give you a decent meta result. Yeah if you mutilated yourself then there might be problems same with if you had surgery in pelvis. However you focus on one thing genetics. Well since no one has my genes and I can't look at close relative to see how their body reacted to a similar situation, genes can only play a limited role in my surgical process. They have already done everything they are going to do in terms of my penis.

No, I don't focus on just one thing. Hormones, stress, illness, etc. can be changed. The only part of this equation that can't be changed is genetics, and that is why I gave it emphasis.

I studied 18 hours a day before; now I am preparing my body for major surgery i.e. dental, hormonal, physical, cardiac and hematology requirements, preparation and exams. As well as eating healthily, working out, massage, medications and saline infusions. I haven't been on this website long if you will look and I joined to talk with peers and have support. I don't work, as I am on a disability pension. I am obsessive is why I worked like that and there was a lot to do. I sleep about 7 hours a day. I eat very little when I am obsessing over my work but I make sure to eat twice a day. When I am done this I am taking a break. I am a slob and hate house work. I generally ignore it. You are very right about brain dead moments and I will admit I had a few. Of course no reputable school would allow their students to destroy themselves in the name of education, I however have no such qualms especially for my penis. Actually you would be surprised just how many papers, books, essays, lectures, courses you can find about the genitals, the ways to change them and the ways they can happen. All of those areas are important plus more then a dozen other areas of medicine. Harvard med school which I assure you doesn't cover all medicine takes 7 years to complete. I have not come close to the hours put in by those who are doctors. After med school is a world of continuing learning.

No, I wouldn't be surprised, buddy, because I was in the same boat as you, except I wasn't making myself no guinea pig. Instead, I read extensively about physiology so I could understand the requirements to sustain a transplant. It is possible, but not medically ethical. The fact of the matter is, you aren't working very closely with a therapist. Your therapist is supposed to prevent this obsessive behavior, like mine did. Because it isn't your job to do this. You are not a doctor, you are not educated professionally in these areas, you are not credited, you don't have degrees to prove it and you're doing it all on some whim from some dream you had.

Don't trust the internet but medical libraries, doctors, surgeons and specialist most of which publish regularly in journals, teach and attend conferences all of which if you are determined you can do. I do not think you are daft. Most profs and specialists are willing to answer questions and explain things if you approach them politely in the medical library with university or hospitals. Most of this research was long ago released with a few pieces still needing access to the current journals which I have. I am not talking about theoretical research but proven surgical techniques and yes it is released eventually online but I prefer the journals because it is more trustworthy. Medicine doesn't work like that, any surgeon has the right to attempt any surgery they feel competent to do and surgeons talk amongst themselves and learn from each other. They aren't worried about someone scooping their credits once they have published it. Most reputable doctors will answer close to any question or concern you have in regards to surgeries they preform.

No, a person cannot just attempt a surgery without some sort of approval. It's mutilation, and against the law. A homemade sex change is the same as a back alley abortion. It's no different.

I have no idea who you think I am except perhaps for the insults you have used. However your opinion of me doesn't matter to me, what matters is you (in this context). You are very angry and I don't really know how to help you because I don't know what it is I have done to so upset you. You say a wave a magical bone. Well that is an assumption on your part that shortly will be proven incorrect. I don't know what "crop up some magical files" means. I do get your disbelief that my files are on a SD card in my bag. Or that I will need to pull them together tonight so I can offer the scientific side you asked for?

Prove me incorrect and I'll eat 250 Peeps. I have a feeling, however, you'll have to "urgently leave," never returning, because "something" came up, then you'll somehow not have the "opportunity" to prove it.

Heck, pulling together these alleged files really doesn't mean anything. Anyone could have written them, and I could right now crop up some crackpot documents.

"John Belushi's Will and Testament

I want to be buried right in the middle of Tiananmen Square. Oh, and mom doesn't get anything. Give it all to Judith and Danny.

Love,
Johnny"

No problem.

Why do I even bother having this argument? Because if I am right, and you do disappear and prove nothing, than maybe a few people on this sight will get a clue. And if I'm wrong, well, I'll eat 250 Peeps.

[noxdraconis]

And if I'm wrong, well, I'll eat 250 Peeps.

You say that like its a bad thing.  They are one of the best sweets in the world, especially fun when you savagely bite off their cute little heads and guffaw evilly >.  I would love to eat 250 peeps. 

[Elwood]

And if I'm wrong, well, I'll eat 250 Peeps.

You say that like its a bad thing.  They are one of the best sweets in the world, especially fun when you savagely bite off their cute little heads and guffaw evilly >.  I would love to eat 250 peeps. 

It's REALLY hard for me to eat more than 5 or 6 of those. But I've seen someone eat 50. Then throw up violently.

[trannyboy]

Elwood, everyone knows you have made your point. I can see clearly now you are looking for a fight over this and I am not interested in it. Either you will be right or wrong in 2 weeks. There is no point in me trying to to convince you, however if you ever decide that you want to, a google search will net you the answers to most of your anatomy questions. If the internet will not suffice go to you gynecologist and ask them about anatomy. I am sure they would be happy to explain many things from my post if you showed it to them.

Incidentally, if 50 peeps makes someone ill, I wouldn't want you to eat 250 of them in two weeks. Just have one or two in celebration with me.   

->-bleeped-<-boy

[Elwood]

No, they really won't. See, the online resources are the sources that you are saying were wrong. That "most medical professionals don't understand the female anatomy." You think the books are going to know better, let alone the online resources? Please.

You're shoving me off because you've got nothing more to say, and I guess things are better that way. Mind you, you've completely forgotten about trying to prove anything. Somehow, people think provoking me will make me forget as well. But Elwood never forgets.

But I'll humor you. I'll ask my gyno is the clitoris is nearly as big as a penis internally.

[Jamie-o]

Elwood - I really think you're reading a lot more into ->-bleeped-<-boy's posts than is really there.  All he has done is try to explain the process that went into deciding how he was going to approach surgery, and then to address each of the points that you brought up.  And for that you lay into him with completely unjustified insults and name calling.

I removed the comments that were here. What was in this space was a violation of site policy. If moderation is to be done, then it will be by Susan, admins or global mods. If members have communications with mods about concerns then the rules say that is to be done privately and remain private. Please heed this in future, and not just this writer.

Thanks so much,

Nichole

All over these boards you keep saying "I'm an adult!  Treat me like an adult! Stop being condescending!" I certainly understand the frustration of dealing with family and friends who still see you as the little kid they always knew.  I'm in my 30's and I still have to deal with that sometimes.

But the people here don't have those pre-conceived notions of who you are, which suggests one or both of the following:

A.  You're projecting your family and friends' attitudes onto total strangers, and/or

B.  You're acting in ways that make people perceive you as immature.

This is not meant as an accusation, just a point to ponder.


Please take a few minutes to cool off and think before launching into public tirades on these forums.  Personally, I'm getting tired of walking on eggshells around you.

[Nero]

This particular issue is of the utmost importance to Elwood. He just doesn't want to be BSed. Given false hope.

[Jamie-o]

This particular issue is of the utmost importance to Elwood. He just doesn't want to be BSed. Given false hope.

I can understand that, and as such I have some sympathy for his point of view.  However, it's not just in this post, and it doesn't justify the personal attacks.  His hair-trigger defensiveness is making this site an unpleasant place to be, and is creating an un-safe atmosphere for people to post in. 

[NicholeW.]

Can we please take some heat out of this discussion? Nothing will be decided but hurt feelings if we lash out at one another. Can everyone just take an hour or so to cool down and try to see another's pov? Please?

Thanks so much,

Nichole

[Elwood]

This particular issue is of the utmost importance to Elwood. He just doesn't want to be BSed. Given false hope.

Thanks Nero. That explains everything and why I've been so heated. I don't want to be BSed and I don't want anyone else to be BSed. And if TB is right, and all this is true, even if the surgery fails, if he really gave it a shot and everything, then well, he proved his point, I guess. I just don't want someone strutting about saying they've got the magical answer and then failing. TB is being a bit hasty in an area that he isn't even sure about. He says it's going to work but it's never been done before. There's no way to know it's going to work until it's been done, no matter how fool-proof it is in theory.

I may be considered bad, "unsafe" and unconventional, but I find it weird that a queer community would ask for hard for tradition. We question gender, we question society, we question everything, but as soon as we question ourselves, hell breaks loose. I hate it. It's inconsistent.

[JackieR]

Here is where to buy Peeps in bulk, just in case someone might need to eat a few (not 250 though).

And if I'm wrong, well, I'll eat 250 Peeps.

You say that like its a bad thing.  They are one of the best sweets in the world, especially fun when you savagely bite off their cute little heads and guffaw evilly >.  I would love to eat 250 peeps. 

It's REALLY hard for me to eat more than 5 or 6 of those. But I've seen someone eat 50. Then throw up violently.

[Elwood]

EXCELLENT. Thanks for the resource. If I end up being able to do it (->-bleeped-<-, it's like a dollar a ->-bleeped-<-ing Peep) I'll record it in HD. I have to prove I did it. But it actually might be a dumb promise for me to make because 1) I don't think my parents will let me buy 250 Peeps and 2) I don't know if I can actually afford that many peeps.

But I'll be planning it, because TB might be right and I'll have to "be a man" and eat the Peeps. If I can't get 250, I'll get as many as I can anyway.