An awakening or confirmation?

[MaggieB]

I have been searching for a partner to share my life with now that my marriage is shattered. As I now fully accept that I am trans, I decided to explore what I would look for in a mate. I came to some interesting conclusions. First, I wondered that since I had lived in denial that I was trans from most of my life, maybe I was also interested in men and didn't want to admit it. I have been opening my mind to this idea and I have found that some types of men are attractive to me. The Johnny Depp, Pierce Brosnan, Jude Law types are appealing, at least, physically. However, when I look back at the men I have known in my life, none would even come close to the kind of mate I desire. The reason is the way that they treated their wives and girlfriends. Even the most devoted wanted significant time away from their SO and they were often loathe to show emotions. Now, I also know that I was not in their houses when they were with their SO's. However, I have read that males tend and I mean TEND to not have as tight a bond to their mates as women do. They are more interested in non relationship oriented activities as a major activity. I'm talking about the men's clubs and model airplane clubs and ice fishing etc. Anything to get time with the guys and away from the missus.
This would be very hard for me to accept. I have been with my spouse for 23 years, having several hour conversations every morning over coffee until the sun comes up. We have had a non stop conversation for most of our marriage and have been inseparable for most of that time. Now since I am openly trans, that has fallen apart and I am searching for another soulmate. I rather doubt that a male will do it for me if he can't pay this kind of attention to me.  Plus physically, I can't even consider a bucking bronco type of male.  So it has become my current idea that I need a relationship with a women. I know the scent of a woman and it really "does it" for me.

Maggie

[tekla]

I think the reason for 'non relationship' stuff is that one relationship is often more than enough, if not too much.  But then again 'relationship' for many men is a sex deal, but their buds are their buds, and that's different.

But I think in a lot of ways, men bond as a group far more powerfully than women do, at least until recent times.  I don't know that its by experience, DNA or social/cultural reasons, but men are taught that from an early age.

I do think there is such a thing as too much togetherness. 

[MaggieB]

I think the reason for 'non relationship' stuff is that one relationship is often more than enough, if not too much.  But then again 'relationship' for many men is a sex deal, but their buds are their buds, and that's different.

But I think in a lot of ways, men bond as a group far more powerfully than women do, at least until recent times.  I don't know that its by experience, DNA or social/cultural reasons, but men are taught that from an early age.

I do think there is such a thing as too much togetherness. 

I agree completely and all of my life, I have been confused with male behavior. I never fit in and never got comfortable no matter in what social setting when I was supposed to act in a male way.  For me, they were from another planet. Or was I???

Maggie

[tekla]

I've never bought into that monolithic ideal that so many here seem to love, cherish and want engraved on their tombstone that men and women are two different groups, and each group is distinct in and of itself.  That Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus junk.  Its more like men are from Teaneck and woman are from Weehawken.

To say, 'oh I fit better with women' --- is that church ladies or biker chicks?  I don't get along with men -- football teams or computer geeks?

All of this exists on a spectrum that is very diverse and not confined to gender alone, race, class, income and occupation and educational levels all play into it too.

[tekla]

Yeah, the dumb jock idea is overdone for sure.  But on church types and bikers see:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/warrants-street-schmidt-2115884-four-anaheim?orderby=TimeStampDescending&showRecommendedOnly=0&oncommentsPage=1

[tekla]

Well it sort of went to the point that nothing is a monolith.  Most bikers are just having a second childhood, and happily making sure that organ banks have plenty to donate.  They are boring, on and off the bike.  And Christian Bikers, are, well, Bikers first I guess.  Though I wonder if in the middle of that fight they asked "Who would Jesus stab?"

[MaggieB]

The reality is that I am not likely to seek a relationship in a biker bar, nor a church group. Rather, I seek someone in my social strata and sub culture. In that area, my experience and expectations are valid. 

Maggie

[Northern Jane]

When I was young I was totally, completely, and exclusively into men. Young men are (were?) willing to compromise on a lot of things to get regular tail. (Sorry for being crude but that's the gist of it.) When I was a young woman, men were SEXY and that's what turned MY crank.

The first time I woke up in another woman's bed, it really bent me out of shape! How could I DO that after all I had been through? Worst of all was that it was enjoyable. Not the passion, intensity, and fireworks of being with a man but pleasant and enjoyable. Best of all, we could TALK, we could understand each other, and pretty much empathize with what the other was feeling.

Now, more than 30 years later, I have dated a bit but I find men to be very one-dimensional, shallow, and very superficial. Mind you, men still turn me on but would I want to wake up next to one every morning? Not any of the 'straight' men I have met! (Some of the Gay guys are super but .... damn it now I am the WRONG SEX!  )

[Shana A]

Maggie, based on reading another thread about what's going on in your life currently, I'd recommend taking some time alone before embarking on another relationship. But, when you're ready, yes, it does sound like a relationship w/ another woman would be more right for you.

Z

[NicholeW.]

I have to concur with Z, Maggie.

I know we don't do it often enough, but the absolute worst time to try to enter another relationship is immediately following the break-up of an old one: people are simply too vulnerable and too anxious over being alone.

Alone isn't always a bad thing once you live with it awhile. In fact, it can be quite nice.

Nichole

[MaggieB]

I can relate to that but one thing is certain, no man or woman is an island.  I am aware of the rebound effect. I have done that before. With my limited income, I will have to share living expenses with someone. Being trans makes this really a low probability thing. However, one thing I know, I will never get what I want if I don't decide what I am looking for.

Consider that at 57, with all the baggage people our age have, the chances of finding anyone even for non trans people are slim. Now dial in being trans in a straitlaced society like ours in the US and a needle in the haystack would be easier to find than a mate. The thought I have been considering is just what do I want, if there were to be a next one. I do need something to hope for.

Maggie

[NicholeW.]

Would it? *sigh* I suppose I'm just fortunate, like Kate is.

Mine was just standing in her office doorway on the day I started working, shaking hands and telling me her name. Took more than a year, but five years later. ... It seems to be working out just fine.

Don't lose your hope or your trust, luv. Sometimes what we are busy searching for appears in the palms of our hands; sometimes we just don't notice it in the focus on our search.

Nichole

[tekla]

Time alone is good, it helps you sort it all out.  Takes time to get out of things just like it takes time to get into it in the first place.

And the US might be straighlaced, but your right down the road from Santa Cruz, a place that makes alternative life choices seem mainstream.  Its where weird goes to feel normal.

And I think its possible to find people at any age, sometimes being older can actually make one wiser. 

[MaggieB]

And the US might be straighlaced, but your right down the road from Santa Cruz, a place that makes alternative life choices seem mainstream.  Its where weird goes to feel normal.

I know, I go there for my therapy sessions and my doctor is there too. It was also the place where I was threatened to be killed by a guy that just didn't like the way I looked.  You are right that it is where weird goes to feel normal but the costs of living there are even higher than here! Plus lots of street people and homeless. I look regularly at Craig's list for housing and jobs both there and here on the Peninsula. So far, my entire income would go to just pay the rent on a place so small that I could not set up my business in it.

Maggie

[Stealthgrrl]

Forgive me for being blunt, but:

No one with any sense will touch someone who is still married, and emotionally enmeshed with someone else.

It will take at least a year from the time you are physically away from your wife before you'll be ready to be with someone new.

You don't even know who you're looking for yet....take the time to get to know yourself.

Please stop shooting down every possiblility before you've even started. Not all men, or women, are the same. Americans of every stripe find love.  People in midlife find love. Trans people find love. But not if you've already decided it's hopeless.

Every major positive change I have ever experienced was preceded by a leap of faith. The best things that have come to me are things I couldn't imagine at earlier times in my life. But things must happen in sequence, because one thing builds on another. Love, someone said, is not so much a matter of finding the right person, as it is of being the right person. You're not nearly there yet, so please just trust time and possibility and give yourself a chance.

Stealth

[tekla]

Sometimes you get to the edge and you have to step off and believe that something will catch you, or you will learn to fly.

[Kate]

Before moving on to someone new, you might first want to check and see if there's a pattern you're repeating that gets you into these sorts of relationships:

I will not fight my wife but I will hope that what GOD started will be fulfilled... If she is standing in his way, he will move her out. He did once before with my ex wife. One day, it was over and she was gone from my life. Maybe, it will happen again.

This quote has worried me terribly since you posted it, but I've bitten my tongue as I didn't want to seem unsupportive. But to be honest, it SCARES me, as it sounds like you think of your wife(s) as a mere obstacle to be removed if she gets in the way of your "divine" purpose.

Was this meant as a threat against your wife? Is her safety at risk?

~Kate~

[MaggieB]

Before moving on to someone new, you might first want to check and see if there's a pattern you're repeating that gets you into these sorts of relationships:

I will not fight my wife but I will hope that what GOD started will be fulfilled... If she is standing in his way, he will move her out. He did once before with my ex wife. One day, it was over and she was gone from my life. Maybe, it will happen again.

This quote has worried me terribly since you posted it, but I've bitten my tongue as I didn't want to seem unsupportive. But to be honest, it SCARES me, as it sounds like you think of your wife(s) as a mere obstacle to be removed if she gets in the way of your "divine" purpose.

Was this meant as a threat against your wife? Is her safety at risk?

~Kate~

Kate,
I am horrified that you think I am violent. I NEVER NEVER meant that! If you have read anything of my posts you would see that I am NOT and have been more than patient with a woman who my therapist has repeatedly told me is abusive to the point that I am battered. I dearly love this woman and have been struggling and holding out hope for seven years that she would stop this abuse and love me.

Honestly, couldn't this have been said to me on a PM? I am devastated and shaking.

Maggie

Posted on: August 08, 2008, 09:01:56 AMI'm sorry, I can't handle this. I asked Nichole to remove me from the forum. Thank you to those who tried to help.

Maggie

[MaggieB]

OK, I'm able to compose myself a bit.

First, Kate why did you post a comment taken out of another thread and out of context? This one was a harmless thread about preferences in a mate.

Second, if you did think I was on the verge of killing my wife, would I post a threat on this forum where everyone can see it?

Third, what was your supportive purpose in asking if my wife was in danger? Was I supposed to say "OH my, gee I guess I was planning to stab her in sleep.?" OR did you want to eviscerate me emotionally? I didn't bring up the concept of violence in that other thread. It was others who were very concerned that I would be killed or hurt by her. AS I said in that thread, my therapist is aware of the situation and together we have come to the conclusion that I am not in danger. If she thought I was violent, don't you think I would be incarcerated by this time?

Fourth, What is so wrong about believing that God has a plan for our lives? That is a fundamental basis of Christian faith. I followed a leading when I left my ex wife as it was an abusive relationship. She has never allowed me to see my two children in 23 years. I didn't even get a photo. I begged her and her parents and her pastor to help but none would. I came to understand that God had a different path for me than her. I was referring to this kind of thing in my other thread that you quoted. AND NOo before you ask, I did not threaten her or does she have a restraining  order against me.

I gravitate towards abuse? My current wife only in the last seven years  has acted in this way towards me. The previous 16 were not abusive. The abusive stuff has increased to the point where I said I was in trouble. AND you cast it that SHE is in danger?

I said that I am prepared to live with the danger that could possibly be there because I hold out hope for my marriage. Recall that I have said seven years of a 23 year marriage were abusive. The others were not and we struggled against all odds to have our family. Do you think she would have agreed to let me stay home with our baby daughter for 12 years if I was a violent sort?  AND NO my second wife is not like my first. My first, was far more abusive and is to this day. My current wife is going through hell trying to cope with me being Trans and I am being patient while she gets over it. If she does not or if she decides that she wants me to leave, then I will and I am preparing to do just that.

I am still leaving this forum. Compared to others this one has made me more upset and harm by far. There are many sweet and wonderful people here but some of you are really mean.

[tekla]

I always found that a range of options and opinions helped me understand the path I was on, and the one I was to take.  Sometimes in order to know what is going on you need to know what's not going on also.  That requires some thought on topics that might not be good to think about, but part of any understanding is not only the what is, but also, the what is not.

I went through a 25 year marriage and we were together for 4 years before that.  24 of those years were awesome, the last five were pretty bad.  And, in all honestly, sometimes it takes as much time to get out of something as it did to get into it.  So, that not 29 years, but it did take five years away from that to forget the last five years that were so bad.  Sugar for sugar, salt for salt.

In those five years, (and since we met our freshman year in college, I had never really been on my own, or alone) were hard, painful and very insightful.  It was a true journey of self discovery that in time got me to a place I had never been at before.  In retrospect, I would have hated to miss that by trying not to go through it.