TG and Passing

[Wendy C]

I really hope this comes out okay and doesnt tick off a lot of people but I honestly would like to understand this as it really came close to some serious questioning of my presentation and transition.

I recently attended my first Transgender meeting at the behest of my Therapist. Not ever having been a social animal I had misgivings about going to begin with, but being a person of my word I did go. Now I know my dealings with other Transsexuals like my self have been but several RL and several actual phone talks, and my dealings on the forums which is probably considered limited at best. All else has been done solo.

While the meeting was very well organised, the speaker excellent, and the rest of the process alright, I felt pretty much isolated. Few introduced theirselves and most presented in their looks where everytime I went to the Ladies room I looked in the mirror and wondered, "do I look that bad" It was was a confidence shaker that seriously caused me worry and stress.

Now I truly apologise to the CD's if I offend someone here but I am trying to understand and I am honestly seeking an answer to this. I know very little of the wider transgender community and most of the tg's there were older and I do understand that they cannot go FT nor or they changing their sex and most change clothes before they leave. I just need to know if this is the norm, was I overreacting, or just out of my league on this.

I do plan on going back again and instead of waiting for people to introduce theirselves take it upon my self to do that. Im just not sure I can take another hit to my Psyche like that again. And you have to understand that I am normally a very tolerant person and thats what bothers me about this.

Wendy

[Janet_Girl]

Wendy,

Three little words.  Attitude, Attitude, Attitude.  I have been to a couple of meetings with other TS/TG, and IMHO most of them do not pass very well, but they have the attitude that they are still a woman.  And that is what I feel makes one pass.  I have been told by many people that I am pretty and I know that I project that in my attitude.  I am a woman no matter what others think.  And I am very happy.  I know that is because I am living my life on my terms, as a woman.

Accepting yourself as a beautiful woman is the best thing that you can do for yourself.  That will come thru in your approach at life.  Look around at bio women.  How many do you consider as not being very good looking.  But they are still women and they project that.

It is the Attitude.  My personal theme song is "I Am Woman" by Helen Reddy.  I live those words everyday.

[Kim]

Wendy,
    I am Is and up until recently passing was an issue for me as well. However, after almost getting killed in a car accident in Aug ( luck was on my side several times over allowing me to walk away) things have changed. I always said before that labels are something I despised and that I am woman rather than IS. But now I have the mindset that I know I am woman, my wife knows I am. So what if the world does not accept me or if I don't pass. Do I really need others to tell me I am woman? I am no beauty queen and may not be the best looking gal, but I am woman and I know it and accept it and that is really all that matters to me. Life is way too short to worry about others in the world. Just my two cents worth here.
                          Kim   

[Renate]

Hi Wendy:

Yes, it is a strange feeling the first time you see a roomful of transsexuals.
In any group there's always somebody that makes you think, "Gee, do I look as bad as that?"
It's good to realize that we may all have a bit of prejudice in us and to try to get over it.

On the other hand, somebody who realizes that they don't pass but presents anyway can still be happy and proud.

[Buffy]

Hey Wendy,

We are really a critical lot us TS, we judge ourselves constantly on the journey to the "Holy Grail" which is passing.

Before I went full time, I used to go once a week to a support group meeting, it was my one real opportunity to dress up, be me and go have social contact with other people like me, or so I thought!

To put it mildly (without offending anyone), I actually didnt like there company, what I saw was a mixture of stereotypical crossdressers (fishnets, high heels, loads of make up) and TS in various stages of transition, starting out, full time, but interestingly NO post ops. I saw a great deal of badly fitting wigs, ill fitting clothes and poorly applied make up!

One of the reasons I stopped going is they where very critical of each others appearance (which Renate has mentioned allready).

A key point about "passing" is that it is not just about looks, but also about appearance, voice, mannerisms, deportment and a great deal of confidence. Many times in the early stages of my transition, I would automatically assume someone had read me, if they just looked or came to talk to me. How wrong I was, as most of us are social creatures that human interaction and communication is part of everyday life.

What you need to understand is two things, firstly dont judge yourself against other people in those meetings, you are an individual, with your own style and beliefs.

Secondly, passing is in the eyes of other people, not you. Its the perception of others which determines how they see us and that truly is a combination of the things I mentioned above, including that confidence and lack of paranoia.

Everyday, I look in the mirror when I get ready and dont like what I see, by my standards I am NOT my vision of what a Woman looks like, but I have now lived stealth for 6 years, interact, work, play and socialize with hundreds of people, who see nothing more than a Woman.

The people you meet at your meeting are not the typical people you will meet everyday in real life. As I said, it is the perception of those who dont know you which will define how well you fit into your choosen role (I avoided the word passing as others as said, its your happiness which is the key point to remember)


Buffy

[Wendy C]

Thank you for the comments, they have helped a lot.  Buffy, you gave a far better narrative of what I saw that I did in my descriptive of the folks there. What I percieved was a bunch of males dressed in  womens clothes and makeup and doing it badly. There seemed to be no attempt to even make any effort to speak nor use female mannerisms. And I suppose it was a bit like culture shock and I felt like running away.

I am not I feel being judgemental, I think it is great that they have a safe place to meet and be their selves. I am just ignorant of the why's and werewithals as to their presenting like that. That and the fact I really felt like a fish out of water and was doing some serious floundering, especially when it came to how I looked and then being pretty much ignored by those present.

Yes I am at that place where I need validation and some encouraging comments. It is a terribly difficult time for  anyone to have to go through and then to also have to contend with a 6" frame.  I dont think I mentioned that I am about 80% FT, lacking a green light from my HR and the name change that will follow, hopefully by years end. I think thats maybe what messed with me the most. Being this close to fulltime and being hit with the notion I look not at all female. Well at least I have the emotions down pat.

Thanks again for your responses, I was really afraid no one was going to respond. Hugs

Wendy

[Janet_Girl]

I know the feeling.  The closer I got to full time, I more I became critical in my appearance.  And it was worst presenting as male.  I began to rethink full time, but reading the posts from here and my friends.  I just stepped into full time when I went on vacation the week before coming out at work.  That made it seamless.  And I have never looked back.  I have seen some sisters, who come into work, that look like xdressers but they have a positive attitude and that is a help them.

A positive self image is sometimes hard to attain, but once one develops it there is no doubt again.

[Suzy]

Wendy,

I know what you mean.  The first (and last) time I went to a support group I thought the meeting was really well run, but the people were a big clique.  I didn't feel at all comfortable, though I enjoyed the speaker.  Yes, I did keep comparing myself to the other girls there, and thinking that surely I looked better than they did (that was stupid!) and wondering if I ever looked as silly as some of them there.  But I realized it was my problem, not theirs.  I could not wait for that meeting to be over!  I was determined to go back, so I did.  I got to the door and could not go in.  I knew right then, it was not for me and I've never thought about going back.  Instead I found a way to form my own support group by making friends in other places.  I find that to be so much more helpful.

I do think we feel uncomfortable is because it brings out our own insecurities very blatantly.  No matter how well-adjusted we think we are, our confidence can still get shaken.

Try it again if you feel like it.  But you might want to consider forming your own support.

Best of luck!

Kristi

[Ms.Behavin]

Oh yes.  It's all about attitude.  Not just the look, but body and hand moments, ways of standing, on and on  etc, and who you feel you are on the inside and just being that.  One of my friends said it best.  It was better, IE I look more female if I just behaved as I normally did when relaxed.  Sometimes trying to be female   is not the right thing.  We ARE female, (Or Male for the guys here). 

I think if you took photo's of some that did not hum look in sync with the ipersons nsides, you might find that from a still life standpoint they passed pretty well.  But in real life there are a thousand things we do every second of the day that will make one stand out for better or more likely for worst.  There is a lot that must be learned and more that must be unlearned as it were.  It's just as important to unlearn old habits and actions. 

Beni

[Chaunte]

Attitude is everything.

I am sorry that you haven't found a support group that is useful to you.  The one I attend, albeit irregularly now that I have a 2nd job, is focused on support - not looks.  Some of us are very attractive.  Some of us, myself included, would make a freight train take a dirt road.  But looks are never brought up.  What we do discuss is what is going on in our lives, and what resources are avaiable to help us move forward.

Chaunte

[iFindMeHere]

You can't "Pass" (masquerade) as something you are already hon. Eff passing and BE YOU.

[Ms Bev]

I haven't thought about or worried about passing in a long time.  I transitioned on my own, at work, under guy clothes.  Then, a couple years later, got a doctor to monitor and prescribe.  By the time the people at work suddenly 'noticed' that there was something very unusual about 'Mike', I was being read female much of the time.  I was addressed as ma'am away from work and often at work by customers, then Marcy and I decided it was time to be ME, PERIOD.  The next day at work, I saw the HR person, and told her I was who I am, and going full time.  She supported me fully, and asked how I wanted to proceed.  I asked her to give me a name tag with 'Beverly' on it right then and there, told her I would dress more appropriately beginning next day, then went on the sales floor as myself, Bev.
I don't recommend this to anyone else, unless that's the kind of person you are. 

So.........I never went through the comparing myself to other transwomen, or going to group meetings.  What I went through, was constantly comparing myself to other natal women.  Yes, I beat myself up regularly in the mirror for quite a while.  I compared myself to other women, picking at the smallest differences, until I reached a point where I was universally accepted as female everywhere, all the time, and was read as female on the phone 90% of the time.

That is when I stopped comparing myself to other women for the sake of passing, and now I just compare myself to other women for the vain sake of comparing, just as many many women do.

I guess what I'm saying is several things:  I jumped into socializing myself as a woman, in my own 'sink or swim' style.  I didn't have other transitioning women to compare myself with, not in real life.  But mostly, the more I understood and accepted that I am a woman, the more naturally I was perceived and accepted as one.  I've never looked back.
At some point, you have to accept yourself as a woman, and until you clear that hurdle, you will always question your ability to 'pass'   (I really dislike that term)





Bev

[Wendy C]

Now if that TG meeting would have contained half the information and care that you have given of yourselves, I would run to the next meeting, all 50 mi's. I think a lot of my hesitation and confusion has do do with the amount of years that I fought against allowing my self to be who I am. I realize a lot of us have done this solo on their own without a lot of help. Had I not let so much time slip from me and had expended as much energy towards transition as I did supressing it It would have been a little easier, which is another story for another time.

The message I am getting as Janet so aptly has put it is "attitude", and I have seemed to notice that it is when I let that faulter, as when I let my female voice slip badly or do something obviously male in nature. I do believe myself to be female, I do not question that. It is the other layers of and I mean no offence to the guys here,  male attributes that I need to shed. I am I feel starting to affect a female aura most of the time. Work is still a real problem for me as virtually all 500+ of the staff knows me as a male and my work clothes are of a color that no one attributes to female as there hasnt been one in my Dept for years.

I do get he eyeballing and questioning looks and some pointed questions but until HR gives me a green light I cannot divulge any information. My hair is shoulder length, I wear  unobtrusive earings and occasionally wear a pink or yellow Ladies T under my workshirt which really brings looks. So I am working on my presentation constantly at work, slowly letting more come out.

It was mainly the meeting thing that just floored me and blasted at my confidence level at a time where I must vulnerable. Again,  you girls have came through in Royal fashion and I am grateful. Hugs

Wendy

[NicholeW.]

Dear Wendy,

TG meetings and TS meetings are somewhat different in my experience. One aspect, and for some early transitioners this aspect reigns as well, is the "putting-on" and "taking-off" of a mask.

For someone living fulltime and being herself there is no mask to remove, or put on, she's simply who she is, or who he is.

The TG meetings I went to eventually becme just like the one Kristi talked about. Eventually I couldn't walk through that door again, there was nothing there for me except three or four people I had come to respect and care for. I could meet and talk with them without going to the meeting they enjoyed a good deal.

Of course, that point arrived in going to TS meetings as well. Just as it arrives at some point on a Forum. One gradually realizes that she is simply no longer "there." There is little else to profit fromthat doesn't deal with daily life, poliitics, music and other general items like Blogthings!

To assist and recall and give the recalls to another can be very uplifting and even educational in some ways, but there comes a time when "you just cannot walk through that door anymore." It's time and experience and yes, as Buffy said, understanding that when everyone is making comparisons to one another that sometimes one simply has to walk her own road, find the goal just like everyone else.

If I had to recommend, I'd recommend a TS meeting for you, one conducted by a facilitator who wasn't simply part of the group, but who's willing to listen and allow discussion of what's on the minds of those attending while maintaining civility and boundaries. It's not always easy to find such places, but they are out here.

Nichole

[Wendy C]

Nichole, After reading and giving much thought to your comments, I see what you mean about one getting to a point where you simply must move on. Having never utilized the internet until last year for this kind of purpose and being a slow learner, I have noticed a cycle among persons that visit these sites. And I am sure that TG or TS groups must be much the same. I should have been more astute in my observations as a couple years ago I and two other persons closed the doors on what had been a major Trade Association in a large City and had at one time boasted large numbers of members.

The main thing I wanted to say was that in looking over your post I clicked on the  A-T link and spent a little time there. The article on Witches, Vampires and Transsexuals intriqed me. I came away with this, you most likely know it well:     

"I find in the severe light of chatting with others that we, transsexuals, have this habit. We become so very involved at hiding what is real, that when we require real we can only touch it through a medium given to mis-direction. The anonymity of the internet where a picture or even the words themselves can be artfully contrived to make who we wish to be rather than who we are.

Years of being forced, by violence, shame, degradation or simply the solitary ward of one's own heart and mind locked, inevitably, to maintain the integrity of an inner-life (the only one allowed many,) takes struggle and determination and the actual touch of another to heal." By Radha Smith 

That is what I was alluding to in my previous post about burying so much and having to come to terms with it all. It is all so very very new to me. Each day is like a new begining and I have never in my life been so afraid and so wide-eyed as I am now. Before I allowed myself to finally move forward, I had sunk to the point of severe depression and the last thing I wanted was to get up in the mornings, much less go to work. That has all changed now and I have been granted  an opportunty I never allowed myself to believe would ever come true.

So presenting for me and being the best woman I can strive to make myself is extremely important to me. I fear failure as it means a very real possiblity of not surviving. Hugs

Wendy

[NicholeW.]

Then, you will not fail. Unless you change your mind. We'll be here to see you through to where you can take over and do the guidance part. Deal?

Nikki

[Suzy]

Dear Wendy,

TG meetings and TS meetings are somewhat different in my experience. One aspect, and for some early transitioners this aspect reigns as well, is the "putting-on" and "taking-off" of a mask.

Nichole

Score one more for Nichole!  This is exactly right.  The one I tried to attend was for MtF, FtM, and some andros thrown in there.  There just wasn't anything I needed there.

Kristi

[Wendy C]

Nichole, we have a deal. I will I think try one more meeting if nothing more than that I need to find some other information I was seeking locally. And to the rest of you girls that gave input to my question, you have helped and enlightened also. 

Wendy

[trbrink]

It was better, IE I look more female if I just behaved as I normally did when relaxed.  Sometimes trying to be female   is not the right thing.  We ARE female, (Or Male for the guys here). 

Beni

Exactly Beni.


I found that as soon as I had a firm, full-time date, that my confidence in "passing" suddenly became in question.  I drove myself crazy over a couple of weeks wondering if I passed, would I ever look like a bio girl, etc., however I finally realized that I was "trying too hard".  I found that if I just dressed/acted in the way that made me feel most comfortable(and didn't fuss too much with my clothes/trying to make my makeup perfect) that I was much happier and I didn't focused so much on passing.  Although two things helped in my acceptance:
1) I read a post that went something like, on different days, in different lights, and in different environments, one's ability to pass will always be on a sliding scale, so why worry about it.

2) One night during this period, I was dressed in "male" mode while out for dinner with my significant other and the waitress kept referring to us as "us ladies".....it was at that point that I realized that "passing" involved far more than clothes & makeup. I've never given much thought to passing after that.....I just try to do what comes most comfortably/naturally for me.  I know I am female; I am Tina, end of story.

[iFindMeHere]

It was mainly the meeting thing that just floored me and blasted at my confidence level at a time where I must vulnerable. Again,  you girls have came through in Royal fashion and I am grateful. Hugs

Wendy

Gee thanks *boy*