Transition & Marriage Questions

[keriB]

Why my wife is with me I have not the foggiest idea!  I wanted her to leave so that I could spare her the issues I was having.

K

I have realized that this is an issue that can actually sour a relationship and spoil any chances of prospectively having things work out, like in mine lol....  I think a lot of my troubles I am having is due to my unconsciously "pushing" my wife away to a degree, which is certainly not what I would prefer...  We had "discussions" over the past two days - I say discussions because she told me how she viewed things and honestly, I can't disagree - and it reinforces the notion that, while I'm cruising down the highway at 150, I have to back off and allow her to catch up... Not an easy task.

I have to stop and think about where she is, and honestly, I probably don't give her enough credit.  She does buy the occasional thing for me on her own, we do pick things up when we are shopping for other items, I have my fem garb actually in one of my dresser drawers in the bedroom and it did hit me yesterday that yeah, I have lots of things hanging up in our spare bedroom, my office.  And she hasn't asked me to leave yet, even given she knows I may very well be telling her one day I want a full transition.  So, yes, I guess I have more to be happy about that I've given credit for...  just food for thought for others, be careful with wife interactions, esp if you're trying to stay in the relationship.  I think through our wanting to protect the other we may in fact add to the harm by pushing away.

[iFindMeHere]

just food for thought for others, be careful with wife interactions, esp if you're trying to stay in the relationship.  I think through our wanting to protect the other we may in fact add to the harm by pushing away.

I'm starting to think this process is one of the times in our life when interpersonal effectiveness is the most important. We need to think carefully about how to work with those in our life in order to preserve and maintain those relationships, and that can be tough.

[Kate]

When you try to "protect" your spouse, what you're doing is making decisions for them.

I totally agree, and yet how do you sit by and watch a spouse spinning her wheels in anguish, stuck in a rut of dispair and hopelessness, because she's afraid to "be that kind of person" to go after what SHE needs?

I know, rhetorical question, but still.

~Kate~

[Kate]

When you try to "protect" your spouse, what you're doing is making decisions for them.

I totally agree, and yet how do you sit by and watch a spouse spinning her wheels in anguish, stuck in a rut of dispair and hopelessness, because she's afraid to "be that kind of person" to go after what SHE needs?

Nope, it's a great question actually.  My answer to that is communication.  I don't go after what I need.  Why?  Because what Cami needs is more important than what I need, and so I abstain...

Communication is wonderful, and I try to always, always be as honest as possible AND let her know that she can say absolutely anything to me without fear of judgement. Problem is, now that I've gotten what I needed, SHE can't seem to move on; not literally necessarily, but in her head, in realizing that she *deserves* to have her needs met too. She's trapped in an inescapable ethical dilemna where she's can't get what she needs without betraying her ethics, without betraying "us," and resents me for putting her such an impossible, unfair situation.

~Kate~

[justme]

i am the SO, 8 yrs and counting, of a MtF and i had to tell her so many times to slow down and let me adjust and catch up before she really looses the 3 kids and myself, because it does take us longer to catch up then it does for some of the changes, but she never listened to me until i became a member of this site and posted something about. but now i am trying to get her to understand that i am not wanting a lesbian relationship ad right now she is coming to that understanding and our relationship is more of a sister type one. and i am just happy with that.
"Well, I can sort of feel her pain, if what's bugging her is intimacy.  You've said before she is not a lesbian, and neither am I for what it's worth.  I"m not attracted to her because of her body, or her gender.  My attraction comes from the mutual love and respect we have for each other"
i agree with you here. i love my SO for who she is, even though i enjoy the male part too, but i fall in love with the personality, caring person that makes her and not just the outer parts. 
right now we are taking it one day at a time, and let God guide us to were things should go, but i am looking for a therapist for us to go to so hopeful we can make our marriage work even if it means not having the intimacy but i am sure we could work something out.


have you are your SO thought about therapy? or have you both sat down together and talked about what you both want? maybe you can remain
married but and the sister type relationship.
maybe you can get your wife to get a profile on here and talk with some of us.

[Wendy]

I have read a lot of fascinating comments.

Many of our wives are really good people.  Although my actions in hindsight were obviously wrong it was what my mind insisted that I do.  I have pleaded with my wife to talk to other people on this site but she is too busy.  I even setup a userid for her but she never used it.  You only see my side of the story.

Here's who is wrong: Me.

My wife has become a great therapist for me.  Her comments have merit.

But what has happened on our journey together for the past year was something that I never expected.

I have had a reoccurring dream in which I never get married and never find a human to love me.  I wake up from my dream and my wife is sleeping on the other side of the bed.  I have felt for many years she does not love me.

About 5 years ago I checked out of society.  I just drank, overate and did nothing.  My mind focused on solving one solitary issue.  Not even HRT could solve it.  It makes no sense.  I started solving it the best my mind could.

Somehow I talked to the right people and somehow my wife finally understood.  She was clueless for 26 years.

A month after she understood she set up a  night get away for us to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary.  That was the first time I showed her me.  We had a great time together and it was fantastic.

I have never considered my wife my soulmate.  She was just my best friend.  But now she has grown to my soulmate.

I pretty much have had a sexless marriage after I failed my second attempt at HRT which was about 15 years ago.  I no longer wished to do the male thing with my own wife.

I was no going to tell her that thing does not exist in my mind.  What a tough existence for both my wife and me.

Now we do lots of fun things together again.  I am trying once again to work and be productive.

Now do I consider my wife my "roommate" since we do not have that kind of "sex"?   No she is not my roommate.

She has become my soulmate.  If I do more will she leave?  Yes probably she will leave.

You know what is even more interesting?  In spite of all my shortcomings my wife considers me her "soulmate".

I'm glad my wife has stayed with me.  I love her very much and she loves me too.  I thought I had no choices but in fact I have many choices.

K

[cindybc]

Hi Wendy
I believe you are doing great strides forward with your wife hon. Soul mate is a really special place to hold anyone in ones heart.
I have my soul mate.

You are in good company here sweets.

Cindy

[Steph]

I experienced much of what has been discussed here.  We were married for 33 years but although we tried it didn't survive transition.  We discussed this eventuality many many times, and although we tried, the fact of the matter was that She was heterosexual and did not want to be in what many would consider a lesbian relationship.  She needed a man, intimacy etc. but that was no longer the case.  I too am a heterosexual female who needs a man and intimacy, so to stay together for whatever other reason would have been too hard as neither of us could provide the other what they needed.

The love and support for each other was still there and still remains today but there was no happiness, and if you can't be happy what's the point.  It was hard to take at first as I was under the delusion that we could make it work.  I could give her love, and support, but I couldn't give her happiness.

I don't expect folks to understand why I needed to transition and that is why I accept the consequences, for who am I to try and convince someone that everything will be the same as before when I know full well that it won't be.  We are both much happier now; I am who I was supposed to be from the start, living my own life and she has met a man who not only loves her but is able to provide for her needs, make her happy provide her with a family.

Steph

[justme]

steph, i'm afraid my SO will  want a man once all said and done. i mean right now she says shes a lesbian but in my heart i feel something different then she tells me. if my marriage survives transitioning how do i know it wont end because she wants a man and no longer wants to be with me the one she calls her true love?

i understand why you all want to transition buti dont and i am sure others dont understand is how you can get married and make a promise to be the husband/wife if you are going to break that promise. just like why have kids and be mommy/daddy then go and take that away. with my SO she wants to be called my wife but she not my wife, she not taking my title im proud of,  just like the mommy title she wants the kids to call her mommy but thats my  title when we made kids she became daddy. am i wrong for thinking that?

[Wendy]

I dont understand is how you can get married and make a promise to be the husband/wife if you are going to break that promise. just like why have kids and be mommy/daddy then go and take that away. with my SO she wants to be called my wife but she not my wife, she not taking my title im proud of,  just like the mommy title she wants the kids to call her mommy but thats my  title when we made kids she became daddy. am i wrong for thinking that?

I think some of us think we can handle the stuff.  I was 25 before I ever knew there were TS people in the world.  Just Me it is fine to want your title.  My youngest child is in HS and she will still think of me as daddy if I float over one day.  In the short run my wife will not even address me by my other name even if I ask her.  She will just say, "Whatever you are!"  She remains quite angry at me.

I will say to her if I ask you to call me a different name in private and that makes me feel better why must you call my male name?  She will say, "Because I married a big strong male!"

My wife really dislikes being with a girl.  She always told me that too.  That is not good.

I do not doubt my wife.  She has never given me an ultimatum.  I am pushing the envelop right now on gender.  I might be able to get away with some unisex stuff but not much more.  Males are expected to act a certain way and it is very defined.  It is very unfair to my wife.

I guess Steph is correct.  Some wives will put up with some things (50% can tolerate TG) but few wives will allow a public gender change (5% of marriages survive TS).

At the very end before I told my wife she would sit in the closet crying each night.  I kept telling her she did nothing wrong. I kept telling her it is O.K. if she would date some guys.  Now it makes sense to her.

I really enjoy talking to my wife again.  She is brilliant.

I have no restrictions from the therapist.  I think it would have been easier if she left.  I am not at all stable.  I will pray for the Lord to help me, my wife, my family and other people like me.  It does not make sense to me.

[iFindMeHere]

steph, i'm afraid my SO will  want a man once all said and done. i mean right now she says shes a lesbian but in my heart i feel something different then she tells me. if my marriage survives transitioning how do i know it wont end because she wants a man and no longer wants to be with me the one she calls her true love?

i understand why you all want to transition buti dont and i am sure others dont understand is how you can get married and make a promise to be the husband/wife if you are going to break that promise. just like why have kids and be mommy/daddy then go and take that away. with my SO she wants to be called my wife but she not my wife, she not taking my title im proud of,  just like the mommy title she wants the kids to call her mommy but thats my  title when we made kids she became daddy. am i wrong for thinking that?

Love is an amazing thing. If we attend to it and keep it foremost in our minds as we think about our partners and our decisions, it provides a lot more elasticity for the relationship than thinking in terms of our fears. Setting judgements (of self and others) aside is incredibly freeing.

I wouldn't say you're wrong. I would say this is a growth opportunity. All partnerships, all people, come across growth opportunities of varying types and difficulties. I know it feels this way, but Mickie loves you no less and never intended to break any promise. This is truly beyond our control--it happens in utero. Our brains develop in the one gender, and then (they don't know why yet but) our bodies develop the wrong set of parts. Some of us ignore it and ignore it until we face suicidal depression or even chronic illness because we're not being our authentic selves. Why? Because we don't want our friends, family and loved ones to be disappointed or hurt.

I am a man with the same birth defect Mickie has, in reverse. I am in a life-committed relationship with another man, Tetanus. For awhile *I* had to call us "partners" or "spouses" because I had a difficult time adjusting my mental concept--

"well if he's the husband, then i feel like i'm the wife and i cannot deal with that." After a lot of thought, I am his husband and he is mine--and that is ok, because we have both accepted it.

I also had to negotiate about parenting terms, because being called "mother", "mom" etc triggered my dysphoria and made me feel that i was still being thrown into a social role that had me suicidally depressed. Now our child has 3 fathers... Daddy Tetanus, Daddy Ex*, and I'm Papa, a term our kid decided on of their own volition. Your family can negotiate   that doesn't step on your toes.

Both Mickie and your kids love you and care about your comfort! Negotiating a mom-type nickname for Mickie (all of you as a family) will affirm the family bond and allow the kids to feel secure and empowered in the situation.

*my exhusband, name withheld for privacy

[Windrider]

JustMe: I have a couple of questions. Why is is wrong or bad for your children to have *two* Moms? I don't believe children necessarily need a "mom" and a "dad". They just need people who love them.

Or is it something closer to what I call the "better woman syndrome"? That somehow your spouse will be a "better" woman/mom/whatever than you are? It took me a while to recognize this issue in myself. And I honestly felt threatened by Dani's transition until I realized something very important. There is no such thing as a "better" woman. There are only *different* women and we are all different from each other.

Also what is wrong with having a wife? Dani has a wife now in me and when she's done transitioning, I'll have a wife too Is it that you don't want to be perceived as lesbian? I can understand that, because that will happen.

Just because your spouse wants to be a wife and mother too doesn't somehow make you less of one.

Just some thoughts.

WR

[keriB]

steph, i'm afraid my SO will  want a man once all said and done. i mean right now she says shes a lesbian but in my heart i feel something different then she tells me. if my marriage survives transitioning how do i know it wont end because she wants a man and no longer wants to be with me the one she calls her true love?

i understand why you all want to transition buti dont and i am sure others dont understand is how you can get married and make a promise to be the husband/wife if you are going to break that promise. just like why have kids and be mommy/daddy then go and take that away. with my SO she wants to be called my wife but she not my wife, she not taking my title im proud of,  just like the mommy title she wants the kids to call her mommy but thats my  title when we made kids she became daddy. am i wrong for thinking that?

Unfortunately, there are so many unknowns with regard to all of this thing called transition, there aren't any concrete answers.  Although I swear I would never be with a man post a full transition, I honestly cannot commit to that absolutely - who knows what effects hrt will have, and honestly I do wonder about that sometimes, particularly as I think more about SRS...

As for your second point, I don't think you are wrong in your thinking, which is why perhaps I react protectively to my wife.  No, she didn't sign up for this, no she didn't marry a woman, and I would never consider myself to be the "mom' of my children... just me, but I kind of view that as a sacred place to not even go to.  Dad.. yuppers, I will always be that, but I could never be the mom.

Lastly, just because something works for one couple, doesn't necessarily mean it  works for all couples... we should be the last people to impose our thoughts on others lol....  Each couple has to work these issues out for themselves and their own comfort.  I honestly would not care what my wife called me if she stayed with me post-trans, and I have to give you lots of credit,Just, for jumping in here and participating.... that takes courage and I sure hope your So appreciates it!

[Steph]

steph, i'm afraid my SO will  want a man once all said and done. i mean right now she says shes a lesbian but in my heart i feel something different then she tells me. if my marriage survives transitioning how do i know it wont end because she wants a man and no longer wants to be with me the one she calls her true love?

i understand why you all want to transition buti dont and i am sure others dont understand is how you can get married and make a promise to be the husband/wife if you are going to break that promise. just like why have kids and be mommy/daddy then go and take that away. with my SO she wants to be called my wife but she not my wife, she not taking my title im proud of,  just like the mommy title she wants the kids to call her mommy but thats my  title when we made kids she became daddy. am i wrong for thinking that?

You are not wrong at all.  I firmly believe that those who transition MtF would naturally want to be with a man, after all it's the natural thing to do.  Of course there are exception where MtF prefere to stay in a lesbian relationship or look for a lesbian relationship and why they would even want to do that is another topic.

For myself I will always be my daughters dad, I would never want her to call me Mom.  She already has a mom, the mom who gave birth to her.  Likewise with regards to my ex, I was not, and never will be her wife.  I do hope to be someone's wife one day.  In my own situation I could never pretend to be something that I wasn't, I am not my daughters Mom and I'm not my wife's wife, and I would respectfully suggest that those who insist on being refereed to that way are being deceitful and disingenuous.

Whenever my daughter needs to refer to me she calls me Steph, as did my ex

Steph

[cindybc]

Hi KeriB, I have a friend who lives on Long Island, small world huh.

My ex and I separated years ago, well before I ever knew about transsexuals although I did have, for lack of a better word, symptoms, I was also deep into alcohol and denial at the time. In later years when I came back home to reunite with the kids and I began full time they asked me what I would prefer to be called. I told them to continue to call me dad because to them I would always be dad, I only just asked they refer to me just by the name Cindy when outside the house. I even had my son in my custody for two years. One year before I come out full time and the years after. I also had a friend who left her three children in my care for two years wile undergoing drug rehabilitation.  They just simply referred to me by the name Cindy.

I have since remarried another TS and we are both post op and our relationship remains as intimate only. Our Marriage Certificate just states that we are a legally married couple in the province of Ontario in Canada. (Married couple) Partners, Mates, Soul Mates, Life Partners.

Cindy

[Wendy C]

Somehow I missed this thread until now and have been going over the responses and advice. Particularly from Brittiney as she has chosen to respond and share with us her heart and thoughts. Her perspective as a SO comes few and far between here.

I am still with my wife and going on 24 years of marriage and God bless her for staying with me so far. There is no way to play down the emotions and turmoil this has caused my Marriage. Like Brittiney, my wife has catagorically stated that she is not a lesbian. Nor does she have any desire to become one in the future for that matter. She has said she still needs male companioship which scares the hell out of me. She states she will be my friend but Im not really sure what that means as I from my view am not sure we ever really shared that.

For us the deciding factor in remaining together has been in her eyes financial as we both are near retirement age. Yes we care for each other but I think I am the more needy when it comes to a loving relationship. I still tell her I love her but do not get that in return. She also feels like the Marriage was a lie and I just dont seen to be able get my thoughts around that. I feel I also gave up so much of myself and in trying to be honorable and do the right thing that I almost drove myself to destruction. I honestly did from all appearances, at least looking in, perform as a loving Husband, Father, Grandfather, etc.

I try my hardest to accomidate and communicate with her, I share my thoughts with her and try to adhere to her advice which I do value. So far she has no plans to leave but has taken the spare bedroom as her own and is distancing herself from me. That just plain hurts also. I guess if I did not love her so much it would be much easier. Hugs

Wendy C

[Krissy_Australia]

Hi

Thanks for this thread. I am going through this at the very moment. Ide been pushing my wife away sub consiously since the birth of our third child. I had hit a real low and was depressed and drinking too much. My wife wanted another child which I didnt and subsequentially our sex life was basically non existant. I came back from overseas work one time and my wife informed me that she had hooked up with an old boyfriend from 18 years ago and was going to have his child. This really hurt me and I pleaded that I would change but really I knew that this is what I was trying to achieve in the first place. My wife did not know about my transgendered issues at this stage.

I was forced from my home and in the following weeks I confided in my wife that I was dressing up and going out as a woman. Claire was absolutely enraged and disgusted at me and tried to use all of what I hold told her in our court case. Fortunately the judge presiding did not have an issue with my "cross dressing" and awarded me visiting rights to the kids so long as I did not present as a woman.

God my life is so complex

After a separation of about two months Claire started coming to the realisation that I was not a bad person and started to accept me so long as she saw no evidence. By this stage I had begun the formal steps for qualifying for HRT. When we got back together this is when we really started to communicate about how I was. Although she didnt like some of what I said to her (because its basically all been a lie who I am) she started to understand more. When I told her about the HRT the proverbial hit the fan.

Since I have told Claire about HRT Ive tried to find as much info on the net for her to read. Claire has come to the psychiatrist and he has explained things to her. Ive been on testosterone blockers now for 2 months and oestrogen for one month and Claire has seen a very positive affect on my mood.

Im happy to say now that although our marriage is not going last and Im making steps to ensure her financial needs Claire has becom very supportive of me and we have in effect found a friendhip that is quite wonderfull. We told the kids the other day who are 7,5,3,1 and they shocked us by saying they already knew. How that happened must have been loose tounges between us and them putiing 2 an2 together(smart little critters)

Ok sorry about the rant but its been the first time Ive really been able to talk like this.

Krissy

[cindybc]

Doncha remember when ya was a kid? It's called ears. I could hear through closed door and walls what my mom and dad were talking about like they were standing right in the room. And don't underestimate the comprehension level of a three year old. 

I remember like it was yesterday, then I had 11 children go under my roof at one point or another through the years and I never underestimated their comprehension level even when they played dumb. "Hee, hee, hee."

Cindy

[mickie88]

For myself I will always be my daughters dad, I would never want her to call me Mom.  She already has a mom, the mom who gave birth to her.  Likewise with regards to my ex, I was not, and never will be her wife.  I do hope to be someone's wife one day.  In my own situation I could never pretend to be something that I wasn't, I am not my daughters Mom and I'm not my wife's wife, and I would respectfully suggest that those who insist on being refereed to that way are being deceitful and disingenuous.

Whenever my daughter needs to refer to me she calls me Steph, as did my ex




yes, i kinda feel the same way. i will never physically be mommie, and i try not to insist on being her wife. some people assume things, i cannot stop that and refuse(not out of disrepect for her but out of ignorance and intolerance of others)(since we live in the state of Transphobia ohio), i'm not going to stand in the front of a store in front of about 50 people and holler at people i'm not her wife/mother, i'm husband/daddy. here not everyone understands, NOR NEEDS TO KNOW.  as far as i am concerned (and she has said the same thing too) its not everybodys business that i'm tg/ts. i've repeatedly told our daughter it's Aunt Mickie in public, she's tried, its just easier and perceived by people as an easy mistake saying mommie or daddy. our son is almost three, he does well with pronouns for me but then messes everybody else, but i give him credit for trying as i do my wife. i believe some of the people at work who know i'm dad, and have kids of their own mind you, i don't think they would see it as very respectful to address their parent by their first name.

then there's the man thing, my wife is VERY FEMININE IN LOOKS, and body language. but her emotions sometimes resemble that of a man. she takes the best care of me, that i know no man ever could. she can literally pick me up and carry me, and i don't think has worked out a day in her life, and she isn't muscular. she makes me and the kids feel special in ways no man ever could. i find the act of a man holding me very unsettling, i'm sorry but i do. the thought of a man being sexually or intimate with me is extremely unappealling. Brittiney is my one true love, and i intend on staying with her as long as we can stay together, not because of the kids, but because i know truly deep down inside she is the one i love and no one else. if i wanted a man, i'd be with him now, i'm happier with my wife by my side. 

[Hypatia]

I firmly believe that those who transition MtF would naturally want to be with a man, after all it's the natural thing to do. 

This is wrong. This is very, very wrong. You can speak for yourself, but you have no business applying this heterosexist bias to all transsexual women.