TS and autistic behavior?

[perfectisolation]

Well another thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,52314.0.html) reminded me of this video i saw on youtube, by mark angelo cummings, it was one of the ones out of the series "the medical needs of a transsexual individual".. anyways to paraphrase he says that a lot of transexuals have 'autistic behavior'... Which made me wonder if it's true or not.

What interested me about it was I was diagnosed with asperger's (mild autism) as a kid, for being too sensitive to smells, sounds, avoiding social situations, being super shy and obsessive, etc etc...

Well i know now that i don't actually have this disorder. I've read a lot about psychology and autism, etc (but not obsessively! lol). The criteria for diagnosing it in the DSM is really, really misleading but i won't get into that. I'll just say that i understand social situations, and have voice tone and things like that in a way that autistic spectrum people don't (yes i'm trying to prove im not autistic now that you all know). it's just that i'm so shy and badly self-esteemed i just didn't learn or practice socializing much, and just feel awkward sometimes around people i don't know or talk to regularly. I think trying to act like a girl and wearing girls clothes, and suppressing my self identity adds to the awkwardness too..
One thing i noticed was how at the same time i started trying to dress/act more feminine, my anxiety got worse, i became insanely depressed and cut off all contact from everyone.

And i find interesting that the autistic brain is supposedly an 'extreme male' brain.. So is it possible that part of the diagnosis, could have been used to explain away my male behaviors??

(Here's a ramble. Honestly i think asperger's is the new fad disorder like AD/HD and bipolar. overdiagnosed, and people self diagnose, thinking it's cool or something, while people like me feel stigmatized for even having it on my freaking medical records and my whole family knowing, when its not true!! aargh .. hopefully my gender therapist could help me somehow 'undo' the diagnosis.. ugh i'm just pee'd off..)
Sorry about that.. I just wish people would let people like me be, instead of giving us useless, negative labels that hurt our self confidence.

So does anyone here have any 'autistic' behavior? Anybody suspect, self diagnosed, or diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder? What about schizoid or something similar? Do you think TS/TG people act more 'autistic' than the cisgendered population?
And if autistic behavior is more common in TS/TG, what if that behavior is actually caused by dysphoria?

[iFindMeHere]

Back in '01 I was extremely ill and couldn't handle the situations I was in. I did behave as if I were autistic for awhile. I don't now. i can quack like a duck, too, it doesn't make me one.

[Luc]

Autism is DEFINITELY the popular mental illness of today--- everyone and their brother is being diagnosed with it. My aunt is a hypochondriac and diagnosed her son with autism herself, and tried to convince my mother that I was, too; I have trouble looking people in the eye when talking to them, I have issues with personal space, and I can't stand being around large numbers of people. I tend to be sensitive to everything; sounds, especially repetitive ones, can set me off and make it impossible for me to do anything until I get away from them or they stop. I'm bipolar, but it doesn't really explain those things. However, I think a lot of the traits we transfolk develop because of our own self-consciousness and self-hatred can look like autistic/asperger's- type symptoms. Maybe I just have everything wrong with me. Who knows.

SD

[KarenLyn]

I'm obsessive/compulsive and intolerant of loud noises. Those don't qualify me as autistic as far as I know.

Karen

[Pariah]

I haven't been diagnosed with, or are (as far as I know), autistic. However, I do act quite immaturely sometimes, usually in situations where my brain is functioning over-time to find solutions, but my actions don't come off right. Many people in my family and some of my peers in school used to ask/say "I was retarded." (I know, how cruel was that?) I was so socially cloistered/phobic that I missed out on soooo much in my life. I missed out on all my home comings, school games (Interested in sports, not I am. WHich makes my father regret me sometimes ) I even missed out on all my proms, even when some of my very good friends begged me to go, and even volunteered to be my date.

I don't know. If my social ineptness and sillyness ARE signs I'm retarded, then by St. John, then I'll live with it. What I do know is that in a crowd of people, usually in a classroom (when I was in high school) I could easily focus on the class-but I was still quite hyper. But let me get around a group of some friends (mostly female, or one or 3 really good guys) and I became social, intelligent, and quiet. If it was all girls, I would feel really...good. I either sat alone or at an all female table-never all male.

People have a problem with my speech, too. I'm either speaking too softly, or I have to shout to be heard.

You know, thinking about all this and comparing myself w/ syptoms, I might be. I don't know. *Scratches head* 

[Kaitlyn]

I got an Asperger's diagnosis a month ago - without seeking one at all.  I was only looking for help with focus & depression.

In my case, I think the diagnosis is spot on.  Not only do I look like a textbook case of an autism-spectrum disorder, but my father has a lot of the same issues, and there's a history of mental illness & bizarre behavior on his side of the family.

It was kind of weird to learn that "normal" people are able to process someone's whole facial expression at once, instead of just one feature at a time.  I thought everyone kind of "scanned" the face, eye to eye to mouth to jaw to whatever, trying to see how all the little sub-expressions fit together.  I can see & imagine faces well enough, but I can only be 'reading' one part at a time - everything other than my focus just slips into the abstract idea of the person's face.

I'm prone to taking things very literally (I'm scared of deadpan humor at my expense), and I get hung up on imprecision, ambiguity, and lack of structure in requests & directions.  Questions like "What did you learn from this exercise?" are killer in school.

I think I might have Tourette's too, or some some similar tic disorder or facet of Asperger's.  The tics aren't numerous, or very impairing, but they're there: palilalia, movement tics in the neck & shoulders, and incoherent verbal outbursts.  The latter usually happens only when I'm recollecting some kind of embarrassment or uncomfortable situation, and I can babble nonsense for up to a minute before I realize I'm doing it.

EDIT:  I was also ALL KINDS of compulsive when I was younger.  Hand washing, glasses cleaning, rituals for sitting down, getting up, going to bed, waking up, getting dressed, eating, masturbating...

EDIT, PART DEUX:  Also, I was obsessed with discovering & counting electrical outlets, and utterly enthralled by dehumidifiers.  I kid you not.

EDIT III: My mother had mild epilepsy in childhood, too.

[cindybc]

I have shared this before on another thread some time back and thought that possibly it could be informational to this thread as well.

There is those who are transsexual and suffer the sometimes debilitating syndrome of GID depending on the stage of development of the dysphoria.

Then there are those stricken by both transsexuality and *empathy* a double serving with exponential possible results and some not all good

Idiosyncrasies of an Empath.

For anyone interested here is my own personal experience on the other part on the composite Cindy, empathy & transsexuality :

In my earlier years I was not aware nor did I know what empathy was. Yes, the sensitivities were there, but I never identified my sensitivities as being different from what anyone else experiences. Was only aware that it was dificult for me to be around to many people in a closed in area. It was similar to being stuck in a Borg ship. Although I did not recognise what it was that was different about me I was still well aware that I was different from most others around me.

I believe that my being a shy and meek shy natured kid was a product of being trans just as much as the empathy. This narrative may pertain more towards the subject of Empathy then transsexuality but never the less I believe transsexuality played just as great a deal in my formative years which lead right on up to my present day characteristics and personality.

It was the very sensitivities of Empathy and to a degree GID had also reared it's head to some extent. My ability to sense another persons feelings and thoughts lead me to feel that others could do the same and to a greater degree. This paranoia alienated me from others and kept me from having any type of meaningful relationship or friendship with any other persons powered by these sensitivies in later years .

Sensing other peoples' vibes and telling them or mirroring things about themselves that only they should be aware of was rather unnerving for one. But feeling other people psychically or emotionally often caused me to go into depressions. It hasn't been until relatively recent years that I learned about the phenomenon of Empathy and how to deal with it.

So with all of this psychic and emotional energy constantly going on inside of me emotionally psychologically and my fear that others could read me in the same manner fearing they would discover my inner most secretes *GID* among one I retreated into myself. I was a loner for the most part.

To compensate for these stressful and sometimes traumatic times my thinking process became more and more complex in an atempt to confuse my thought patterns. In other words, I guess that in order to deal with the problem of sensitivities going through the roof I unconsciously started being able to process my thoughts about many things at the same time (i.e. talking to someone else in the room while working on another project and thinking about dealing with problems I had to confront that day, as well as the next days, and the day before all in one same motion of thoughts at the same time.

Constantly analyzing things in my mind etc.) for a time, in other words, so to speak, walk and chew gum and count cracks in the sidewalk all at the same time. The problem with this is that a lot of the more menial or mundane thing were neglected. Menial and mundane maybe but what could still land a person into some otherwise unnecessary negative situations and set of problems. But the mind constantly craved for the deeper more profound thoughts, and as a result Little things that most folks would take for granted and dealt with as automatically as scratching an itch, while I to me the mundane would be lost in a void o complexities. I still find it necessary to make notes to remind myself or incorporate the mundane tasks as part of a routine.

Although for as far as memory can go it has always been my nature, like an cumpulsive need for me to try and help others in need, this need I had to abandoned for a time. I needed to fix me first, which meant coming to head with GID at one point. My mind became chaotic and confused, I could not handle the disappointment of some who would use me while attempting to help them. Well of course, something had to be acquiesced or put into harmony within. In the past 9 years I have resumed doing what my heart longed to return to. Bracing myself and preparing myself for the possible outcome of loosing some now and again. Any given project is a gamble that one has to take if they desire to keep moving forward. I have also my partner helping me screen individuals both online and in real life before I attempt to reach out to them. I still need to learn to say "no!" when I feel that their reasons coming to me may be questionable.

Unfortunately there are many people who seek an easy answer exerting as little effort as possible expecting you to hand it to them on a silver platter....I do my best to tell an individual in a certain way how to tell them a truth and preventing a negative reaction without sugar coating it the answer.

There are many hazards out there to the unwary sensitive. There are times where we want to think and believe the best of another regardless of the warning lights, and this can be hazardous to us. My mind and my senses have once more been synchronised the day I surrendered and have allowed myself, the innerself to emerge and take her place in this life.

And this all used to be quite chaotic, and now is just like anything else, as a result the way I talk is, well...sometimes not understandable... like my brain is going faster than my mouth and I'll leave words or even an entire train of thought out, then go back and forth from topic to topic in an effort to recover the lost thoughts. Then attempt to compensate for this gap with a new train of thoughts and ideas as fast as I can while still trying to analyze and absorb what that person or persons had just tried to inform me about.

So the question is, "Is this good or bad?"

Not really all bad. Once I knew what type of internal processor I had that drives me I learned rather quickly and adeptly how to utilize these once upon a time chaotic characteristics of empathy. I also found Empathy to be an asset on many different occasions through the years working as a social worker, through my caring, love and compassion for another.

The grounding still helps when I get a chance but this new way of thinking seems to prolong the stress and that build-up or anxious feeling. I still, for some reason, try to get deeper and deeper into what **they** society, media, or what any one individual might be saying. Sometimes just picking up vibes from the environment around me itself can get to be stressful and grounding is a good way to release all the access energy that one collects through the course of a day.

Whatever the vibrations around me are telling me (not with question, mostly just analyzing). I know every time I'll catch something new I didn't see before helping me for next time but then go back and try again. Dealing with people to me has become easier to deal with then things, but also my patience has gotten less and less tolerant with ignorant comments people make...well, not really ignorant. Just someone trying to one up on me with their attitude...I've noticed too when people do that now...I don't even have to be saying or anything to even trigger such an latitude. I believe I may even have a sister or two right here in this group that can vouch to that fact, "beware of ankle biters!"

Grounding and shielding can be important to those who wish to remain stable through the course of the day. There are many different methods of doing so. One does not have to follow any particular method, just use your own.

I do my grounding just prior to saying my morning prayers, first thing upon waking up I stand facing the sliding glass doors to our apartment where I can see the brightness of early morning, I then close my eye and raise my arms up so both my hands are touching then take a deep breath then exhale slowly bringing my hands down both my sides and picture in my an effect something like the electromagnetic fields circulating around the earth from north to south. Positive energy coming in from the top then circulating through you to ground then back up as positive energy and down through the crown chakra to ground once more.

Such were the composite characteristics of the girl that grew up in the country, the daughter raised by a mom who was raised on a farm. )

Cindy

[noxdraconis]

I have a lot of these autism/aspergers symptoms:  the inability to make eye-contact, the inability to socialize/read social cues, social aversion, the obsession with select topics and tendency to monologue on them, special rituals for almost everything I do, extreme distress when said rituals are interupted, sensitivity to particular sounds and smells and even the presence of a person, the urge to stack/sort/arrange any group of small items in a particular order or pattern, fits of hysteria if the arrangements are undone.  Do this mean that I have autism/aspergers?  No.  It just so happens that these disorders are the newest fad.  Many of these symptoms are caused by problems other than autism/aspergers.  Problems socializing?  It is more likely that the culprit is low self-esteem, poor confidence, or isolated childhood.  Tend to engage in special rituals or the need to arrange/sort things?  Could also be a desperate bid at control over something when one feels as if they are powerless or  OCD (another fad disorder that is quite popular nowadays but unfortunately must be mentioned).

[Kaitlyn]

For everyone who says autism/Asperger's diagnoses are a fad... have you met many people with an official diagnosis?  Or are you just basing that statement on what you think about their popularity for self-diagnosis and discussion?

I'm sorry, but when I see statements like "fad disorder", I'm reminded of all the times I was told that my depression was psychobabble or a fad diagnosis, even after multiple breakdowns and a suicide attempt.  It also reminds me of all the times I've spent literally all day sitting in front of a blank piece of paper, trying to make the words come when I can't handle the openness of the question or understand its intent - or all the times I couldn't finish an essay test because I'd run out of time, even with extensions.  For example, just before the last semester ended, I spent literally 80 hours trying to answer the question, "What do you think this experiment was intended to teach you?" for a simple project.  Those 80 hours were spent in three continuous blocks where I sat in front of the paper all day, overnight, and into the next day.

I didn't have one word written at the end of that, even though worry about the paper had consumed my life for weeks prior.  My lab partner had to write it.

That's just one instance out of a thousand for me - and I only find out this year that it's an autistic trait, and there are ways to work around it.

[cindybc]

"Hee, hee, hee, Kiera as usual I'll bet you ten to one it goes over everyone's heads. The rocket jockey rides again. 

Cindy

[Nero]

For everyone who says autism/Asperger's diagnoses are a fad... have you met many people with an official diagnosis?  Or are you just basing that statement on what you think about their popularity for self-diagnosis and discussion?

I'm sorry, but when I see statements like "fad disorder", I'm reminded of all the times I was told that my depression was psychobabble or a fad diagnosis, even after multiple breakdowns and a suicide attempt.  It also reminds me of all the times I've spent literally all day sitting in front of a blank piece of paper, trying to make the words come when I can't handle the openness of the question or understand its intent - or all the times I couldn't finish an essay test because I'd run out of time, even with extensions.  For example, just before the last semester ended, I spent literally 80 hours trying to answer the question, "What do you think this experiment was intended to teach you?" for a simple project.  Those 80 hours were spent in three continuous blocks where I sat in front of the paper all day, overnight, and into the next day.

I didn't have one word written at the end of that, even though worry about the paper had consumed my life for weeks prior.  My lab partner had to write it.

That's just one instance out of a thousand for me - and I only find out this year that it's an autistic trait, and there are ways to work around it.

isn't that just writer's block? i get that sometimes too. i think everyone does.

[tekla]

80 hours to answer a rather rote question is a bit much for writers block.  Most people by that point in school have learned enough to at least BS an answer, so this is different.

[cindybc]

Well I graduated the bug house and I got papers to prove I can be a rocket jockey and I didn't even have to graduate rocket science. 

It ain't what it's all quacked up to be, Yea my wuber ducky has a quack in it. "Quack, quack." Hope there ain't any Drs. in the house tonight.

Cindy

[Kaitlyn]

For everyone who says autism/Asperger's diagnoses are a fad... have you met many people with an official diagnosis?  Or are you just basing that statement on what you think about their popularity for self-diagnosis and discussion?

I'm sorry, but when I see statements like "fad disorder", I'm reminded of all the times I was told that my depression was psychobabble or a fad diagnosis, even after multiple breakdowns and a suicide attempt.  It also reminds me of all the times I've spent literally all day sitting in front of a blank piece of paper, trying to make the words come when I can't handle the openness of the question or understand its intent - or all the times I couldn't finish an essay test because I'd run out of time, even with extensions.  For example, just before the last semester ended, I spent literally 80 hours trying to answer the question, "What do you think this experiment was intended to teach you?" for a simple project.  Those 80 hours were spent in three continuous blocks where I sat in front of the paper all day, overnight, and into the next day.

I didn't have one word written at the end of that, even though worry about the paper had consumed my life for weeks prior.  My lab partner had to write it.

That's just one instance out of a thousand for me - and I only find out this year that it's an autistic trait, and there are ways to work around it.

isn't that just writer's block? i get that sometimes too. i think everyone does.

I used to think it was, but I gradually realized that none of the advice on overcoming writer's block was remotely applicable, and people's descriptions of their writer's block didn't sound anything like what I was seeing.  Not to mention that nobody ever believed me when I said I couldn't do it - it was easier to just think of me as "lazy", because I've got MENSA-level test scores and I don't act or look like a stereotypical "special needs" person.

I have no trouble with writing when I set the terms & topic - it's just certain kinds of questions that send me off the rails.

Besides, I've been this way for my entire life.  I've coped by avoiding as many papers or essays as possible and just taking the grade hit.

EDIT:  Oddly enough, English Lit & Philosophy papers were fun & easy.  I still remember my European Lit professor from freshman year in college telling me that the "A" I just received on my analysis was only the 5th A she'd given in 10 years.

EDIT AGAIN:  I'm not bragging about the MENSA thing, just pointing out how hard it can be to make people understand you've got a real problem when they're all tied up in their preconceptions about ability.

[cindybc]

Hi Kaitlyn hon I won't pretend to know much about autism or aspergers except for the basic symptoms, same with any other mental dysfunctions such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorders that I needed to learn the basics of as a social worker.

I described my own experience in a previous post and the little techniques i developed in order to cope with those disorders that some would call either gifts or curses, but they are quite real, especially the one we are all dealing with which joins us all together here as brothers and sisters.

About the mind block, many of my mind blocks I have discovered are created without my even being aware of it, until I have rarely finished composing entire post without gaps I needed to go back to fill in afterwards. I discovered they were not mind block or writers block, they were words I miss, sometimes two or three words missing in a sentence.

What it simply came down to was that my mind is moving faster then my fingers can move so that when I am typing the first word in a sentence my mind is already on the last word of the sentence, or a thought proses, which could take several sentences of writing to express that one thought processes. This can also play hell on reading comprehension, your half way through the book before your eyes have even read the first half dozen words.

Same with gaping words, it can be a simple everyday word, I will completely gap a word and sit there for an hour trying to think what the word was, then in the mean time I have completely lost track of what I was going to write to start with. There goes an hour or two down the tubes, wasted.

I have found now that the best remedy for gaps is to just continue writing till you have completed what you were going to write, forget the typo's and spelling errors and the gaped words, You can always go back and correct the errors and fill in the gaps after your done with writing your document. 

And in a board like this thank God they have a delete and edit button. Takes a little longer getting there because of all the backtracking but at least it gets you there with a finished piece of paper that makes sense. 

Cindy 

[iFindMeHere]

I have a lot of these autism/aspergers symptoms:  the inability to make eye-contact, the inability to socialize/read social cues, social aversion, the obsession with select topics and tendency to monologue on them, special rituals for almost everything I do, extreme distress when said rituals are interupted, sensitivity to particular sounds and smells and even the presence of a person, the urge to stack/sort/arrange any group of small items in a particular order or pattern, fits of hysteria if the arrangements are undone.  Do this mean that I have autism/aspergers?  No.  It just so happens that these disorders are the newest fad.  Many of these symptoms are caused by problems other than autism/aspergers.  Problems socializing?  It is more likely that the culprit is low self-esteem, poor confidence, or isolated childhood.  Tend to engage in special rituals or the need to arrange/sort things?  Could also be a desperate bid at control over something when one feels as if they are powerless or  OCD (another fad disorder that is quite popular nowadays but unfortunately must be mentioned).

WARNING: PERSONAL AGENDA

But I notice a lot of these same traits mentioned by members... and interestingly enough, they can also be symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder (which can have other symptoms not mentioned.)

The math on Borderline Personality Disorder being Sensitive Nature (perhaps a brain being flooded with the wrong sets of chemicals?) + Invalidating Environment (like, you know, being raised with incorrect gender expectations all your life, or perhaps being harassed for psychological gender vs. assumed gender?). Marsha Linehan, who was the first and primary writer on this subject, even included "persistent identity disturbance" that "include self-image, sexual orientation..." hmmm.... who might appear, to a psychologist, be confused about who they are and to whom they're attracted?

I believe that the more sensitive of us, raised with the wrong expectations and/or peer-bullied for seeming "variant", may indeed wind up with this problem. The problem is, then society holds that up and says "Seee? They're SICK!" rather than recognising that, gee, if people weren't trying to make us conform to their concept of the norm, we probably wouldn't have this problem so much.

[perfectisolation]

Sorry if i upset you Kaitlyn, i do believe asperger's is a genuine disorder, that some people do have, but i also think that psych's these days are too quick to diagnose it, and that there are people who believe they have it without seeing one about it.

I have similar 'symptoms' to some of you guys.. i avoid eye contact unless im face-to-face with a person and sometimes i just get lost in my thoughts and social anxiety without focusing on both at the same time.
That's interesting about having AS and focusing on parts of a person's face. i don't do that much. Sometimes i dont pay attention to nonverbal cues, but again i think its cause im too much in my own world because of all the social anxiety.
Sometimes i take things literally, especially on the internet.
I talk too quietly for people to hear me.
I don't use gestures much..
I have trouble organizing my thoughts, like here, i just make random new paragraphs. When i try to describe something to someone else or recall something, i get stuck and just can't go on about it anymore, cause i feel like i put my brain on overdrive or something...
I've had obsessions where i felt like i 'had to do' something, but it's not like i have one then go to the next. It's never been about 'weird' things really (like parts of a train or whatever), just obsessions like general things like anime, drawing/painting, legos, action sports, etc.. one thing i wonder about is if this whole gender identity thing is just some obsession or phase, cause my mom thinks it is (she also thinks i hate my body because i want to be a child forever which i think might have to do with her believing i have AS)
And again i think a lot of this has to do being shy, having low self esteem, anxiety, depression and TS, and being more 'male' brained.

and then there's things that make me more 'neurotypical' - i like tv shows/literature/art with a lot of intricacies and metaphors, and trying to figure out the characters personalities and motives. I like hearing gossip about my family, etc. i find things humorous or understand things that people with AS would probably look over or take too literally. When i see a person who's sad, i feel sad too.

I dunno, ive taken that "AQ" Test honestly and it said i was normal (something like 150/200 for 'normal')
I'm gettin a little too deep into this now... maybe i really am an aspie. lol
I just feel like i have to constantly prove in my mind that i'm not one.. no offense to people who actually have AS, to me having this label is the same thing as having the label 'female'... it makes me a sad panda.

[FallenLeaves]

I was in an inpatient setting for about 10 weeks and I was diagnosed with asperger's twice. I was also diagnosed by another psych in an outpatient setting. I was never told this until recently, but here we are 7 years later and what do you know; the diagnosis was utter bull->-bleeped-<- on all PHDs involved behalves (3 different doctors confirmed it). A pretty ridiculous diagnosis if you know me at all I think. One of the problems was that all of my doctors were male. I don't just see it as no big deal either really as I made it rather clear at the time that I was transexual to my parents and I had no desire to talk to people I was not comfortable with. If not for their mistakes I would probably be 7 years on HRT instead of just 6 months.

So, yes, I would agree doctors diagnose people with asperger's too easily and often incorrectly.

[Kaitlyn]

It's funny... I've got actual symptoms but no one ever tried to diagnose me with anything until I was 25.

[Jamie-o]

I have Dyspraxia, which is believed to be on the outer rim of the autistic spectrum disorders.  It shares a number of features as Asperger's, but typically in a milder form.