Hi

[Tam]

We had a bad day today.  All he does is apologize, and all I can do is cry.  All I want is my husband back.  I want this resentment gone, and I want the trust back.  The problem now, is me.  I can't seem to let it go.  I told him that I just need some time to adjust to this, and he tells me that he has nothing but time and will help me through any of it that he can.

I will try the suggestions you made about the letters.  Thank you for being so understanding.  I feel like I'm on the ultimate pity pot.  Dammit, I just can't help it. 

[Krissy_Australia]

Hi Tam

I feel sorry for you as Ive watched my wife go through it and the pain it was caused. Unfortunetely if your partner has been doing it for a while then there is little liklihood that it will stop. Forgive me if Im wrong but it seems the main concern is whether this is just self satisfaction or is there a deeper underlying GID issue. I would suggest that your partner has a few sessions with a thearapist to determine the extent of his condition and after a few sessions by himself you attend one with him and listen to what the thearpist has to say. Unfortunetely there may always be some doubt but at least you will have the opinion of a professional to ease some of the mistrust.

Good luck Tam and remember that things do get better with time.

[Ms.Behavin]

Hang in there Tam. It's not at all easy to have ones prince charming, turn out to be something just a wee bit different.  What your feeling at the moment is very very normal.  If you love him still, Talk to him / talk to us.

Alas I too hid my being TS from my then love of my life.  For me, even though I knew I was, It was hard to even admit to myself that I was.  We tend to be pretty ashamed of who we are,  even though in almost all cases it was there at birth. 

No  it's not a pity pot and the problem is not you.  It's just life. Some days are good and other days are pretty bad.  It will take time and if you still love him then Scream, yell, etc., yet keep the lines of communication open.   

Take care

Beni 

[SpazOutLoud]

I'm going through something similar and I know it's hard. You love someone so much, but you know you'll soon not find them physically attractive and it sucks. You just have to support him as much as you can and be strong about it.

[Maebh]

We had a bad day today.  All he does is apologize, and all I can do is cry...    I feel like I'm on the ultimate pity pot.  Dammit, I just can't help it.

At last you are both expressing how you feel instead of bottling things up or getting into a blaming spiral.
Just be patient with yourself. Just think: How long has he known about himself? Has he come to term about it? If he felt he had to kept it from you might be an indicator.
So that now it is in the open it might be the opportunity for both of you to share deaper and support each other through this crisis. Hopefuly with time, patience, honesty, care and courage you will both be able to be even more open, gain better confidence and understanding, become more free, and why not closer and stronger.
It is not going to be easy. But from what you have said and done so far you don't seem to be quiter.  On the contrary you strike me as an intelligent, caring and courageous little soldier.
Isn't life always full of surprises? Go luck on you journey.
HLL&R
Maebh 

[Tam]

Hi all, I know it's been a while since I been on.  I've been trying to come to grips with everythng.  I thank you all for your kind word.
Unfortunately, something else has come up.  I need some advice even though deep down I know what is going on.  I'm in a constant state of denial.

Ok, here goes.......

I found out that he's been going to a LOT of gay porn sites.  A lot of them.  He says he's just looking, but what am I supposed to think???  He swears he's not gay or bi, but why go there is you're not one or the other???

I feel like we are headed for disaster, but what can I do about this?  I can't keep a constant eye on him, but now I'm doing nothing but snooping and making myself miserable and sick. 

Any input would definitely be appreciated.

[finewine]

[...]
I found out that he's been going to a LOT of gay porn sites.  A lot of them.  He says he's just looking, but what am I supposed to think???  He swears he's not gay or bi, but why go there is you're not one or the other???

I feel like we are headed for disaster, but what can I do about this?  I can't keep a constant eye on him, but now I'm doing nothing but snooping and making myself miserable and sick. 

Any input would definitely be appreciated.

Nobody digests quantities of gay or bisexual porn out of intellectual curiosity.

I suspect he is also in a very difficult place - a combination of desire, denial, guilt because he knows you're hurting, etc..  All of these can make it very difficult for someone to open up about what they truly think and feel.  It's very uncomfortable to face ones own "demons" (real or imagined).

It's also unreasonable for you to have to endure all this and that's probably something he is conscious of,  which may be compounding his sense of guilt making it even harder.

Ultimately, he needs therapy to help him open up and show what's really within.  Only then will you be in a position to fully understand your choices and the ramifications of each.

Do not try and pressure him into opening up yourself.  An anger counter-reaction is often the result of trying to force people to examine these difficult areas within themself.  Instead, tell him that you know you *both* need to work this out and understand it.  Tell him you'll go along for therapy too, so that you can take the initial steps together and assess where you go from there.

Always try to frame the discussion in terms of support and seeking understanding, rather than pressure or conflict - even though you understandably feel he owes you a straight answer!

[TamTam]

Hello again.   It's good to see you, though I wish it was with happier news.

Okay.. he says he's not gay or bi.. has he come up with another explanation for visiting the sites?  Or does he just say "I'm not gay!" and not offer another reason?

I mean.. I dunno, I could see visiting a porn site once to 'just look,' out of curiosity or wanting a laugh, but once you've 'looked' you don't really need to visit again, innocent curiosity would be fulfilled.

If he caught you visiting porn sites, how would he react?

[K8]

I agree with Finewine.  This is your problem because he is your partner and you want to have the kind of life you thought you had in the beginning. 

I am not qualified as a therapist or anything - just another human - but to me it sounds like he has a lot of problems.  Since you've found out two big things he has been hiding from you, you naturally wonder what else he is hiding.  He needs to resolve some things about himself.  Talking only to you won't give him the help he needs - you have a spousal relationship, which complicates things too much.  I'm sure he feels guilty for screwing things up with you, which doesn't help him resolve his issues, either.  He needs to talk to a neutral party, preferably someone trained to help him.

If you can't get him into therapy, start therapy for yourself.  It would help you to figure out how much you are willing to put up with.  I know you didn't sign up for this and it is hard to accept that his problems are severely affecting the wonderful life you thought you had.

[DISCLAIMER: My view is skewed because my wife, the love of my life, drank herself to death and refused therapy.  Therapy helped me get through all that.  My daughter has been struggling to disentangle herself from her alcoholic husband who she tried to move heaven and earth to help.  So perhaps I am less patient with putting up with a partner who is in trouble than I would be otherwise.  My advice, though, is to try what you can do to help your partner and save the relationship, but bottom line is BE SURE TO SAVE YOURSELF.]

*hugs* and good luck.

-Kate

[Tam]

Nobody digests quantities of gay or bisexual porn out of intellectual curiosity.

I suspect he is also in a very difficult place - a combination of desire, denial, guilt because he knows you're hurting, etc..  All of these can make it very difficult for someone to open up about what they truly think and feel.  It's very uncomfortable to face ones own "demons" (real or imagined).

It's also unreasonable for you to have to endure all this and that's probably something he is conscious of,  which may be compounding his sense of guilt making it even harder.

Ultimately, he needs therapy to help him open up and show what's really within.  Only then will you be in a position to fully understand your choices and the ramifications of each.

Do not try and pressure him into opening up yourself.  An anger counter-reaction is often the result of trying to force people to examine these difficult areas within themself.  Instead, tell him that you know you *both* need to work this out and understand it.  Tell him you'll go along for therapy too, so that you can take the initial steps together and assess where you go from there.

Always try to frame the discussion in terms of support and seeking understanding, rather than pressure or conflict - even though you understandably feel he owes you a straight answer!

I start to ask him about things or try to talk to him and he starts on the defensive.  Then I get angry and it just goes down hill from there.  I want to work this out, but at the same time, I want to hurt him for hurting me like he has.  I know he feels guilty and he should.  This is a dangerous game he is playing with people's lives.  It's selfish. 

I totally deserve a straight answer, he doesn't feel that he owes me one. 
Post Merge: June 16, 2009, 08:01:43 PM

Hello again.   It's good to see you, though I wish it was with happier news.

Okay.. he says he's not gay or bi.. has he come up with another explanation for visiting the sites?  Or does he just say "I'm not gay!" and not offer another reason?

I mean.. I dunno, I could see visiting a porn site once to 'just look,' out of curiosity or wanting a laugh, but once you've 'looked' you don't really need to visit again, innocent curiosity would be fulfilled.

If he caught you visiting porn sites, how would he react?

Hi ,
That is exactly the way I'm thinking about this.  When I asked him why he feels the need to go to these sights if he's not gay....he says "because I want to" and that is all the explanation he gives.  That's just not good enough.
Post Merge: June 16, 2009, 09:05:22 PM

I agree with Finewine.  This is your problem because he is your partner and you want to have the kind of life you thought you had in the beginning. 

I am not qualified as a therapist or anything - just another human - but to me it sounds like he has a lot of problems.  Since you've found out two big things he has been hiding from you, you naturally wonder what else he is hiding.  He needs to resolve some things about himself.  Talking only to you won't give him the help he needs - you have a spousal relationship, which complicates things too much.  I'm sure he feels guilty for screwing things up with you, which doesn't help him resolve his issues, either.  He needs to talk to a neutral party, preferably someone trained to help him.

If you can't get him into therapy, start therapy for yourself.  It would help you to figure out how much you are willing to put up with.  I know you didn't sign up for this and it is hard to accept that his problems are severely affecting the wonderful life you thought you had.

[DISCLAIMER: My view is skewed because my wife, the love of my life, drank herself to death and refused therapy.  Therapy helped me get through all that.  My daughter has been struggling to disentangle herself from her alcoholic husband who she tried to move heaven and earth to help.  So perhaps I am less patient with putting up with a partner who is in trouble than I would be otherwise.  My advice, though, is to try what you can do to help your partner and save the relationship, but bottom line is BE SURE TO SAVE YOURSELF.]

*hugs* and good luck.

-Kate

Hi,
I'm sorry to hear about your wife.  I'm working on the therapy thing.  I just hope it leads us to good things.  Don't worry, I will save myself.  I will live like this for a while, but I won't be miserable, and I can't make him miserable either.

[TamTam]

"Because I want to?"  Well.. why does he want to?  That sounds so suspicious to me. If this was something innocent then he wouldn't have a problem elaborating.  And honestly, you do deserve straight answers.  He needs to communicate with you, how can you trust someone who never trusts you enough to talk to you honestly?  Trust is nearly impossible without communication.

You know.. I'm always amazed that when some people find someone who at least makes an effort to understand and accept something that's difficult for many to understand and accept, such as crossdressing, they proceed to sabotage the relationship in other ways.  Communication and trust.. very basic things.  I feel like even if he wasn't a CD and even if he wasn't on these porn sites those issues would still come up eventually if this is how he's handling things right now.   There really isn't any good excuse.  None that I would accept as 'good,' anyway.

[finewine]

I start to ask him about things or try to talk to him and he starts on the defensive.  Then I get angry and it just goes down hill from there.  I want to work this out, but at the same time, I want to hurt him for hurting me like he has.  I know he feels guilty and he should.  This is a dangerous game he is playing with people's lives.  It's selfish. 

I totally deserve a straight answer, he doesn't feel that he owes me one. 
[...]

Your feelings here are completely natural and understandable.  What exactly does work this out mean for you?  That's an important question.  Does it mean:

a) getting to know and understand this new person your partner seems to be, or
b) getting rid of this new person and having the "original" man you married back

Don't worry about what the right answer is, just what the honest one is!  I say this because it's not unusual for a significant other's initial reaction to be to want the partner they met and fell in love with back.  They say they want to understand because they love their partner but, deep down, they hope they can somehow undo this with therapy or discussion and go back to how things were before.  So, in an effort to be "reasonable", they go along with a charade of therapy when they really don't have any intention of accepting the "new" person.

Only if you truly, honestly want to try and understand him and adapt your relationship accordingly will you two have a future together.   You won't be able to talk him out of his sexual orientation or any underlying gender dysphoria...at best you'll guilt-trip him into living the secret life he did before.  You won't be doing either of you any favours by staying in a relationship that you aren't 100% committed to.

Now's the time to do your own soul searching, as I'm sure you are.  As it's only been 5 months of marriage, you can probably get an annulment rather  than a divorce if you so choose.

[Cindy]

Hi Tam,
I've only just come across your post. I hope things are working out. My 5 cents worth? I came out to my wife before we were married. She would never have sex with Cindy, because, as she said, she isn't a lesbian.

We have been married for 27 years. Trust has been absolute.
I'm dismayed that you husband is visiting porn sites. To me that is a betrayl of trust.
Has he seen the replies you have been getting? It may knock some sense into him.

BTW in accepting each other in our marriage we have had some amazing times! The shopping trips have been legendary!! On a visit to the USA we hit a Sears store, the assistants couldn't believe the amount of clothes in two different sizes landing on them. They were so cheap as compared to Australia at that time. We had to buy two more suitcases!

I do hope your life works out. AS others have said you are important. If he cannot accept his duty as a husband, even as a CD husband then

Love and Hugs
Cindy

[Janet_Girl]

Hi Tam,

Welcome to our little family. Over 2500 strong. That would be one heck of a family reunion.

Feel free to post your successes/failures, Hopes/dreams.  Ask questions and seek answers. Give and receive advice.

But remember we are family here, your family now. And it is always nice to have another SO.

And be sure to check out

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by
  
• Standard Terms and Definitions
  
• Post Ranks
  

Janet

[K8]

I'm working on the therapy thing.  I just hope it leads us to good things.  Don't worry, I will save myself.  I will live like this for a while, but I won't be miserable, and I can't make him miserable either.

Good for you, Tam.  It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.  Trust your instincts and work with your therapist.

*hugs*
Kate

[Tam]

"Because I want to?"  Well.. why does he want to?  That sounds so suspicious to me. If this was something innocent then he wouldn't have a problem elaborating.  And honestly, you do deserve straight answers.  He needs to communicate with you, how can you trust someone who never trusts you enough to talk to you honestly?  Trust is nearly impossible without communication.

You know.. I'm always amazed that when some people find someone who at least makes an effort to understand and accept something that's difficult for many to understand and accept, such as crossdressing, they proceed to sabotage the relationship in other ways.  Communication and trust.. very basic things.  I feel like even if he wasn't a CD and even if he wasn't on these porn sites those issues would still come up eventually if this is how he's handling things right now.   There really isn't any good excuse.  None that I would accept as 'good,' anyway.

I agree completely.  I can't talk to him about any of it, he gets defensive right away because I'm "snooping" on him.  Of course I'm snooping, I can't get any answers out of him, so my mind is free to wonder and think all sorts of things.  So to try to get answers, I snoop.  I've never EVER been this type of person.  I'm making myself crazy.  I'm just trying to be a part of this whole other life he seems to be leading and understand it better.  Then....BAM!!!  The gay thing comes along.  Right back to square one, the communication is out the window and the trust is gone.  I don't know what to do with the situation, with myself or with him.  He clams up (after he screams and tells me how wrong I am), says he owes me no explanations and that I shouldn't be checking up on him.  I, however, think that I have every right to check up on him, and I definitely deserve some answers.  My mind is going about 200 mph right now and he's more than willing to let that happen to keep from answering for himself and his actions and deal with the consequences.  Right now, I think he's pretty much the most selfish SOB I've ever seen.  He tells me to stop playing the victim...that's a hoot isn't it? 

He's sleeping soundly, too bad I haven't had a decent nights sleep in months.  He could care less.  Sad isn't it?
Post Merge: June 17, 2009, 04:19:50 PM

Your feelings here are completely natural and understandable.  What exactly does work this out mean for you?  That's an important question.  Does it mean:

a) getting to know and understand this new person your partner seems to be, or
b) getting rid of this new person and having the "original" man you married back

Don't worry about what the right answer is, just what the honest one is!  I say this because it's not unusual for a significant other's initial reaction to be to want the partner they met and fell in love with back.  They say they want to understand because they love their partner but, deep down, they hope they can somehow undo this with therapy or discussion and go back to how things were before.  So, in an effort to be "reasonable", they go along with a charade of therapy when they really don't have any intention of accepting the "new" person.

Only if you truly, honestly want to try and understand him and adapt your relationship accordingly will you two have a future together.   You won't be able to talk him out of his sexual orientation or any underlying gender dysphoria...at best you'll guilt-trip him into living the secret life he did before.  You won't be doing either of you any favours by staying in a relationship that you aren't 100% committed to.

Now's the time to do your own soul searching, as I'm sure you are.  As it's only been 5 months of marriage, you can probably get an annulment rather  than a divorce if you so choose.

I would love nothing more than to have the man that I fell in love with over 6 years ago back.  I know that's not going to happen.  I've been struggling with the fact that he's so good at keeping secrets about himself and that I thought that I knew him better than anyone....turns out I don't know him at all.  We've been married almost a year now, we've been together for 6.  That is a lot of time to throw away, and I take my vows very seriously.  I can't make this work, if he doesn't open up to me and trust me.  I feel like the big joke....you know, the last one to know.  His family knew, his ex-wife knew......everyone knew about this but me.  I feel that I've been lied to by everyone.  Him especially.  I feel that my future was decided for me.  Now it's deal with it or get out.  What a choice.....

One thing that I do know for sure, is that I love him, but I don't deserve this.  I've done nothing to deserve this.
Post Merge: June 17, 2009, 05:26:03 PM

Hi Tam,
I've only just come across your post. I hope things are working out. My 5 cents worth? I came out to my wife before we were married. She would never have sex with Cindy, because, as she said, she isn't a lesbian.

We have been married for 27 years. Trust has been absolute.
I'm dismayed that you husband is visiting porn sites. To me that is a betrayl of trust.
Has he seen the replies you have been getting? It may knock some sense into him.

BTW in accepting each other in our marriage we have had some amazing times! The shopping trips have been legendary!! On a visit to the USA we hit a Sears store, the assistants couldn't believe the amount of clothes in two different sizes landing on them. They were so cheap as compared to Australia at that time. We had to buy two more suitcases!

I do hope your life works out. AS others have said you are important. If he cannot accept his duty as a husband, even as a CD husband then

Love and Hugs
Cindy

Hi,
You were very considerate of your wifes feelings.  Coming from someone who got no consideration at all, I can't tell you how much I respect you for coming clean with her and being up front about everything.

I do feel betrayed over the porn sites.  He's always like to look at porn, but it's always been women.  I've never really liked that he did that, but I never said anything about it....He was up front about it and I dealt with it.  Looking at GAY MEN PORN SITES, is a different story.  Does that make sense? 

Post Merge: June 17, 2009, 06:26:43 PM

Hi Tam,

Welcome to our little family. Over 2500 strong. That would be one heck of a family reunion.

Feel free to post your successes/failures, Hopes/dreams.  Ask questions and seek answers. Give and receive advice.

But remember we are family here, your family now. And it is always nice to have another SO.

And be sure to check out

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by
  
• Standard Terms and Definitions
  
• Post Ranks
  

Janet

Thank you
Post Merge: June 17, 2009, 07:27:37 PM

Good for you, Tam.  It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.  Trust your instincts and work with your therapist.

*hugs*
Kate

Thank you

[Cindy]

Hi Tam

I feel so sorry for you. You have put a lot of time and effort into the relationship  and he doesn't seem to appreciate that.

I have absolutely no concern over Gay, Lesbian or anything people. How could I? However if he is denying he is Gay when viewing Gay porn sites, I do find that a little odd.

I hope it works out. If you need someone to cry on feel free to pm me.

Cindy

[Tam]

Thank you, and I don't mean for anyone to feel sorry for me....I just need to vent is all.  Let's face it, these days I'm a raving lunatic...and I know that I am, I just can't stop myself..lol

Thanks for the offer, and I might just take you  up on the pm.  It's nice to be able to talk to someone.

[Katy]

That's really unfortunate, and I would think he should of told you before he ask you to marry him. Well, as long as he is straight, and you still love him then try your best to understand it. If you cannot get around this idea that your man is dressing as a woman and wearing make up, and prancing around thinking he's a woman then maybe as a last resort divorce since the marriage is still early. Only as a last resort, and especially if you really cannot cope with it (the relationship gets destroy by this).

It maybe best to find out early, rather than find out twenty years down the road.

[TamTam]

I think the difference between straight porn and gay porn with this is.. with straight porn, at least the people he was looking at were the same gender as you.  But with this, they're not, and that necessarily means that he's at the very least bi-curious and lying to you about it.  It has more levels of meaning.

You are his wife.  If he ever owes anyone any explanation for anything, it would be you.  And no, snooping isn't the best thing in the world to do, but.. it was a last resort.  And now he's just using that as a way to turn the spotlight off of himself.  Regardless of whether or not you should have been snooping, it doesn't change that he shouldn't have lied to you in the first place.