why am I a m2f lesbian?

[Alex_C]

Sarah - nope no one her but I've sure run into that in real life!

BTW you look a bit like my last GF and in a good way :-)

[Steffi]

I knew that I'd already thrown in my two-pennorth on this subject somewhere, but couldn't find it until now - finally located it on another forum:-

I functioned adequately as a heterosexual male and have always fancied women only.
I've had half a dozen or so sexual experiences with guys, but it never clicked as Right with me. They happened because I was horny and broadminded enough to think "What the hell..... maybe it'll be fun..." when opportunities and situations arose.
I didn't fancy the guys concerned - they were just there at that moment and not UNattractive.
With the later ones, I was kind of trying TO like it 'cos I thought "Well....this is probably what I should be doing" since I secretly wanted to be a girl and all.....

I'd NEVER actually fancied a guy in my life. I could look at some guys, or film-stars and think "Yeah..... I can see why women find him so attractive" - but I didn't actually feel it myself at all, it was just a dispassionate assessment and that's how it's been until age 54.

Then....... about nine months into transition, but pre-hormones, I got chatting to a guy one night who had by chance wandered into the place where I was at a trans-group meeting. He had no agenda there, had arrived by accident and was just sat quietly in a corner sipping his drink and watching events out of idle curiosity and a lack of anything better to do.

I went over to chat to him because I thought he had come for help and was too shy to speak up 
I soon realised the situation, but he was interesting and I stayed because we had a great dialogue going and were simply both enjoying the chat.
.... about an hour in, I suddenly thought "Oh my god - I FANCY this guy!"
...and I really really did. The first time ever, and I never believed it could or would ever happen.
That thought was immediately followed by "....but my body's wrong! "  ... and that's another first - the first time that I've felt that feeling SO intensely and clearly and in that way.
I did fancy him. I did NOT want a gay-male relationship. I wanted him as a woman and the fact that I wasn't and couldn't almost made me burst into tears there and then, mid sentence. I had to flee to the loo and regain control.
Nothing happened between us - though it could have if I'd chosen 'cos he was mine, hooked and landed.... but it simply wasn't right for me, so we enjoyed each others company for a while longer and left.

I'd been propositioned many times before that night and have been many times in the year since by perfectly presentable, attractive guys but I'm not interested, not in the least attracted to them, just like I never have been all my life.
It was HIM ..... he was the one

So..... there you have it.
What little sex-drive I do have is solely towards girls, but I've had the startling revelation that given the right guy ....... maybe I'm not a lesbian after all 

[Alyssa M.]

The actuality is that if I met a PERSON, who was attractive to me, then I'd want to be with that PERSON. That's on a person-to-person basis. Theoretically there's some 5'2" MTF out there who'd bowl me over. But the mentality that I'm obligated to date a person because because because... BEEEEP you lose!

Well, gee. If you could point to a single place where I told you whom you are obligated to date, I would be quite surprised.

I gather your problem is that you don't like dating women taller than you. That's some tough luck for you, and a nice benefit to being lesbian, given that I'm trans: I don't have to worry about dating insecure guys who want a girlfriend shorter than them (i.e., most guys I have ever met). Alas for you, you only get to date the small fraction of the straight female population under 5'2", whereas I get to date any lesbian I'd like to, regardless her height. Bonus!

It depends on their reasoning. It may or may not be racist.
It can be a preference. Some people like BBW's some don't. Some like tan girls, some don't. Some like tall, some like small. if you don't like redheads, you simply don't like redheads.

You missed my point utterly. If someone says, "I'm not into black chicks," that may or may not indicate racism; it might also indicate some peculiarities of their sexuality. Though racism is not an unlikely candidate. But when, given their distaste for black chicks, makes a sweeping statement that "A lot of guys aren't into black chicks" -- insinuating that their peculiarities of attraction are normal and common and objective (based on the object of the attraction or lack thereof, rather than the subject), then that is a racist way of describing one's own sexual preferences.

In short: never say "a lot of people" when what you really mean is "I."

[SarahFaceDoom]

BTW you look a bit like my last GF and in a good way :-)

Haha.  You're the third person in the past two months to tell me that.

Weird.

[shane]

Samantha, I know exactly what your going through. I have always been attracted to girls(more specifically, lesbians) and even dated a girl for 3 years who later came out to me(she is 100% my best friend). And I didn't know why until recently. Not only am I female, but a lesbian as well. Not merely attracted to women, but lesbians. message or email me if you want to talk more about this

[accord03]

Haha.  You're the third person in the past two months to tell me that.

Weird.

wow!!! are you a MTF?

pretty and dimpleee ^_^

[katgirl74]

I don't pretend to understand, but I put it down to either nurture, or autogynaphobic / fetishisistic aspects of M2F transsexuality ?

I have to admit that I was more than a bit taken aback by this statement. Congratulations on giving in to Bailey and Blanchards of the world! As a MTF lesbian, and was deeply offended by this statement. My sexual orientation is separate from my gender identity, and my identity as a lesbian woman is NOT the result of nurture or fetish. Years ago, I thought my female gender identity meant I should be with men, this was long before I understood gender identity and sexual orientation. I tried it, and hated it. To me, men are a big turn off.
    I just find it interesting that a trans person would pass such a harsh judgment. My transition has nothing to do with any kind of fetish, it has everything to do with my female gender identity. The fact that I am a lesbian is secondary. I don't understand wanting to be with men, but I do not classify you into the "gay man" box that some schools of thought would seek to classify you. Instead I celebrate the diversity of trans people.
   On a related note, not to say that your statements come from this place, but I have seen a lot of homophobia from straight identified trans women. I'm curious about where this comes from, and why it is so prevalent. I guess guess having grown up practically in the middle of the Castro district in San Francisco I am very comfortable with all identities. Others actually have little or no contact with gay and lesbian people.

[cynthialee]

As a bisexual woman I also took offence.

[TheAetherealMeadow]

I think the reason why it's more common for trans women to be lesbian or bi is because if a trans woman is out about her transness, she's more likely to be out about her sexual orientation. Also, I think some of it may be because of a general aversion to the male body due to gender dysphoria.

Also... I heard somewhere (I don't remember where) that the sexual orientations of trans women are about the same proportion as that of cis women, and perhaps lesbian and bi women are just a lot more visible in the trans community.

[accord03]

I don't like the whole idea of transitioning and being a homosexual after.

[spacial]

Sorry to jump into this thread so late. I do hop the point I would like to make hasn't alredy been done.

Just as most ambidextrous people are most likely left handed but been forced to use their right, perhaps many people who see themselves as bisexual, are gay but pushed into a hetro mold early on.

This is just a suggestion. I don't personally see myself as bisexual.

[cynthialee]

I grew up in a sex positive environment and was encouraged to be open about being gay. My family was more concerned I would get involved in hetero relationships and find out I was gay later in life. They worried about me toying with the affections of the girls.
This tact my folks took worked about as well as telling a gay teen they should be strait.

I am bisexual, I am 100% positive my bisexuality is a natural state of being I was born into. Not a learned behaivior.

I tried to be gay, I tried to be strait and it failed both ways, because I am bisexual.

[spacial]

I apologise cynthialee. I can see the suggestion could have been offensive and that was not my intention.

I married a woman and have been married for many years. We are both very happe together. I don't see my self as bisexual. I see us both, coming together and staying for the companship, which to my mind, is more rewarding than sex ever could be.

It was extremely difficult to form relationship with men. They, for the most part, seemed more interested in living the gay life and couldn't cope with me as recesive.

I was and am, not interested in the gay life. I just want a normal life.

If society had ben more accepting then, as it seems to be aproaching now, I would have saved up for and taken the ops to change.

I fully accept that, for some, their sexuality is not the sae as mine. It certainly in't my place to judge others. Goodness knows I don't have much call, given what I wanted.

It was just a proposition. Perhaps for some.

[Hikari]

I don't like the whole idea of transitioning and being a homosexual after.

Why? It isn't like we really have control over our gender identity or our sexual orientation. That would be the equivalent of saying you 'don't like the idea of being black in America', you can't choose where you were born or your skin color either.

I have to admit though, If I had been attracted to men, it's possible I would have come to terms with who I am earlier, but then again maybe not, perhaps I would have found some other thing to attempt to convince myself that I wasn't the way I am. I cannot choose how I am, and I have accepted this, so what I am trans and attracted to women exclusively? There are far worse things one could be.

[cynthialee]

It took me years to resolve being trans and being primarily attracted to women. (still like boys but girls are best!)

I figured because I like girls I shouldn't transition because being a dude makes finding a female mate easier.

Just doesnt work. I am a woman, not a man. Regardless of the outer shell.

[Asfsd4214]

Also, I think some of it may be because of a general aversion to the male body due to gender dysphoria.

I find this argument kind of interesting, because for me it's the total reverse.

I'm straight, not bi, so I'm not really interested in girls to begin with, but if I were, I think I'd find that very difficult because of how hard it would be for me not to feel a sense of envy at what they had that I didn't (a normal life history). I don't have that problem with guys because although I envy their normality, I don't envy anything about them or their lives.

But I don't feel any aversion of the male body, I just don't want mine, lol.


On a broader note though, I don't see any issue at all with the concept that an M2F could also be gay, although I do think it's highly insincere to argue that gender identity and sexual orientation are entirely unrelated.

[Alyssa M.]

I find this argument kind of interesting, because for me it's the total reverse.

I'm straight, not bi, so I'm not really interested in girls to begin with, but if I were, I think I'd find that very difficult because of how hard it would be for me not to feel a sense of envy at what they had that I didn't (a normal life history). I don't have that problem with guys because although I envy their normality, I don't envy anything about them or their lives.

But I don't feel any aversion of the male body, I just don't want mine, lol.


On a broader note though, I don't see any issue at all with the concept that an M2F could also be gay, although I do think it's highly insincere to argue that gender identity and sexual orientation are entirely unrelated.

As a trans lesbian, what you say rings true, especially the part I put in bold. I don't feel any aversion to the male body either, as long as it's not mine -- or my lover's!

I also agree that sexuality and gender are deeply related. They certainly are for me.

[BunnyBee]

I also agree that sexuality and gender are deeply related. They certainly are for me.

I am curious what you mean by this.  I don't disagree, mind you.  Actually I don't have a clear opinion on this one way or the other.

[Arch]

I don't like the whole idea of transitioning and being a homosexual after.

Well, it's a good thing you're attracted to women, then, isn't it? You probably won't have to worry that the above scenario will happen to you.

[Alyssa M.]

Jen, for me it means a lot of different things. I think it means something different to everyone in the details, but mainly it's just that for almost everyone, gender and sexuality are relevant to each other. I could go on and on.

It's pretty common that straight people get validation in their gender identity through romantic and sexual relationships, with phrases like "becoming a real man" or "you make me feel like a natural woman." (I guess that makes Carole King an "autogynephile.") Well, I feel the same way: everyone wants to feel attractive to someone whom they are attracted to, and for me that means other women. For the record, that doesn't make me an "autogynephile" -- it makes me a "reasonably normal human."

There's a lot of culture, too. For straight people, especially straight cis people, their experience of learning gender roles revolves around the question of how to find a partner. For gay cis people, that can get really messed up. So many gay people, and especially lesbians, spend years trying to make straight relationships work, because they just figure that they don't quite understand what the big deal is, or they just haven't found the right man, or maybe women just aren't all that into sex anyway.

For me, it was the opposite: I figured that if everyone was right about the me being into girls (to my utter surprise), maybe I was a boy after all, and I tried hard to make that work. It's really a pity -- being a guy didn't do a damned thing to get girls interested in me. Somehow they all seemed to sense that I didn't want to be their boyfriend -- and didn't know how, anyway.

I don't know how much sense that all makes. I've been writing this while babysitting analysis jobs for work, so ... Basically, it boils down to the notion that my sexuality is a part of my gender and my gender is a part of my sexuality, even though it's quite reasonable to consider them as separate concepts.

But to anyone who might worry about the dread possibility of being one of them there homosex'ls -- it friggin' rocks! I'm not saying I'm the next Shane McCutcheon or anything-- far from it -- but I've definitely had a lot more luck in the last year of awkwardly lurching into full-time status while my life was falling apart around me, and later, putting the pieces back together. Somehow confident happy people seem to be a lot more attractive than haunted, timid shells. Who knew?

Also, by the way, that whole envy thing Ashley pointed out? It's so much better than it ever was before!

Okay, good night now, everybody!