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My MegaThread On Being Transgender - Can we ever "know"?

Started by Soapyshoe, February 16, 2009, 06:33:31 PM

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Soapyshoe

Hey everybody, I just found this forum (finally!).  The following post will be very long, but there's so much going around in my head I've got to put it all out here.  I'll try to organize it so you can skip to the parts that you feel you can most contribute to.  The first half is my personal history, the second half are my thoughts on transexualism/->-bleeped-<- (from my perspective as a self- and institutional-trained cognitive psychologist).

As you're reading, I have the following questions:
1) Do you believe that I will be happy as a 100% female?  I ask, because I still have confusion about my sexual fantasies vs. daydream fantasies, and how they relate to wanting to be female (you can get the details from my history).
2) Do I believe I'm transgender because of how I was born (i.e. female brain/mind), because of environmental influences (i.e. Internet and TV "allowing me" to be trans), because I'm just freaking out and crazy, or for some other reason?  This whole thing is still a complete mindf$&k for me.
3) Is there any "wisdom" you've learned you'd like to share with me?  (A lot of people say, "Be yourself", which doesn't specifically apply to me because I have two completely distinct "personas" that I now recognize as existing within me.)


About Me (Present)
I'm a 25 year old graduate student in psychology.  I presently consider myself MtF.  I started seeing a therapist 3 weeks ago via the campus counseling center.  I haven't started HRT or done any permanent changes.  Career-wise, I focus 100% on schoolwork right now, and I have a lot of wasted leisure time.  I'm a year away from graduating, and I have so many career ambitions I just can't decide!  I've never been in a long-term relationship with another person, although I have had sex with 4 genetic women (all longer than 1-night stands).



History


Childhood
I was born into a Mormon family.  I never liked being touched as a child, and I was very moody growing up.  People accurately described me as a perfectionist/anal retentive child.  My mental development was extremely rapid, and I was operating at a high IQ from a very early age. 

At age 4-5, I vividly recall wanting to wear dresses.  Putting on dresses and acting like a girl would cause me to become very relaxed, and this would invariably lead to an erection.  I didn't want anybody to know that being a girl felt "awesome", as I didn't really trust anybody in my life.  I've always had a very poor relationship with my mother - our personalities are a complete clash.  I always thought she was unattractive and I hated how she was an under-achiever and was always depressed and on drugs.  I liked spending time with my father doing outdoorsy stuff like sports and scouting, but my mother did most of the child-rearing.  I never like playing with girls when I was young, as I thought they were boring an unadventurous.  My younger sister never really had female friends, and has always been tomboyish.



Adolescence

When I was 12, I had been fantasizing a lot about being a girl, so I got up the courage to get some of my younger sister's underwear (they fit me perfectly).  To this day, I can't put into words how good it felt to just be wearing panties and a bra.  I felt like a completely different person.  I would look in the mirror and try to see myself as a girl, but I felt very ashamed of doing it as I still believed in Mormonism at this time.  Sometimes I would have dreams that I was a girl, and I would wake up with the dream replaying in my head all day long.  I would hold onto that dream feeling, and go through the day in a kind of warm, fuzzy, female fog, trying to make that imaginary feeling of being a girl real (I never happened to crossdress on any of these days).

My collection of clothing grew to incorporate shirts/skirts, and I would have strong fantasies about going to school as a girl.  I would often try to be a girl in my spare time (hiding my penis, acting girly, smiling a lot).  I wanted to do makeup SO BADLY, but I just couldn't bring myself to risk it.

Around this same time, I began to play with myself anally.  It felt really good, like it was just a natural thing that every boy did, and I thought I would just outgrow it and become a man eventually.  Sometimes, i just desperately wanted to be a man so I could stop feeling like a girl all the time (it was REALLY hard feeling like a girl around Mormon parents, who believe God assigns your gender/sex).   

When I was 16, I had my first orgasm during a bath in the evening (I was just playing around with my penis, like I always did).  It felt uncomfortable and weird, and I felt a bit guilty for causing it.  However, I soon acclimated to my functional penis, and began integrating it into my crossdressing.  Around this time, I started realizing that I wasn't "normal", and I started fantasizing about running away, taking hormones.  I started researching transexualism on the Internet and TV, but felt like I just wasn't in a position to do it (after all, I was conditioned to be a "family man").  I rejected Mormonism at 16.  I never made a serious attempt to run away.

I started mixing my female and male personality at this time.  People have ALWAYS described me as "weird".  In a nutshell, I developed an inner logic that said, "Be genuine, be happy, live life in the moment like a free human being."  So I'm outgoing, caring, funny, make up a lot of games and stuff but at the same time have low self-esteem, dislike my looks, and often suffer from depression.

Throughout this time, my mother kept trying to hook me on drugs, but I refused to take them.  I just wanted to be alone a lot (was never suicidal, often depressed), and I wanted to feel "love" but didn't know how.  My depression really sprang from 1) hating my Mormon parents and trying to get away from them a lot (they FORCED me to pray out loud at night, I conformed), 2) being alone, 3) being in a ->-bleeped-<-ty messy house (made me not want to have any friends), and 4) being stressed about school and my future (I felt I was an independent adult at age 16, and wanted to leave the house right then and there but didn't know how).

To deal with my depression, I learned how to dissociate.  Dissociation is the act of "leaving one's body" in order to no longer feel negative emotions or physical pain.  Runners will often do this due to extreme pain from lactic acid. I began dissociating from myself at this time, and I have been dissociating almost 24/7 until this year.  Not being able to explore my gender identity was a big part of my dissociation, as I desperately wanted to be in a place where I could just be free from all the guilt/shame/pain.



Young Adulthood
I went to college 40 minutes from home.  In college, I crossdressed for Halloween and it just felt amazing.  My hair was really long and a hot girl curled it up and make me look AWESOME!  But I played it off like, "ha ha being a girl sucks."  I continued to research being transgender, but I was just mortified at the thought of being a social outcast, so I just started looking at ->-bleeped-<- porn a lot and admiring them from afar.  I couldn't believe they were born as men, I just couldn't understand how they did it. 

I convinced myself I'd never "pass" (you just had to be born looking female and take hormones early?).  So I delved into more masculine activities (paintball, sports), and just drowned myself in schoolwork.  I partied a lot too.  I had sex with 2 girls in college; it felt good, but it didn't feel "right" (I felt like i was conforming rather doing it of my own free will). 

At age 19, I got arrested for a crime I didn't commit, dodged a 10 year prison sentence with a plea bargain, and ended up going to grad school after college.  My life was utter HELL for 2 years.  During this time, I wasn't able to crossdress, but I would often fantasize about being female.

At 21, I went to grad school.  Like most 1st year graduate student, I tried to conform to some kind of neoprofessional model.  I cut my medium length hair to standard male length, started wearing polo shirts, etc.  I HATED my look, and started growing my hair again.  My first 2 years, I had a verbally abusive advisor.  My life went to hell AGAIN.  I just felt like a zombie person going through the motions with no happiness, no sadness...just a dead person walking around.  I got my hands on a pair of panties at one point, and would sometimes gratify myself while wearing them.  I had convinced myself that being female was just some stupid sexual fetish, and that there's nothing more to it.

I started playing MMORPGs.  I only played female characters.  I liked playing the healing types of characters, but I got frustrated and aggressive toward other people.  I ended up playing World of Warcraft as a solo player, spending most of my time killing other players with my powerful female characters.  (Analyze that one....I still don't understand it yet)




Precursors to Renewed Crossdressing
Fast forward to the most recent year:  Stuck in graduate school for the next 3 years, I stopped playing MMOs and turned to marijuana.  I liked the mind-expanding properties it gave me, but hated the fact that it dulled everybody else's mind.  I smoked every 2-3 days for a year.  I was having a lot of social problems with other people (exaggerated by the "be true to youself" feelings from psychedelics like weed), just really really disliking other people, but at the same time conforming to what they wanted from me (I have always tried to please other people, but get angry when there's no reciprocation or emotional connection). 

Sometimes when I would get really messed up on drugs/booze, I would desperately want to be alone.  I was paranoid that somebody would find out my secret, so I had to stalk around in the shadows.  But when I got to be alone, something CRAZY happened!  It was like a switch got flipped in my brain, and that fantasy I had about being female was suddenly real!  I actually FELT female.  Because I was doped up, it gave me an excuse to feel okay feeling this way.  I would usually pleasure myself, and then try to feel female as long as possible, often staying up really late.  When the drugs wore off, I just went back to dissociation mode. 

I recently discover LSD, and I treated it with great respect.  The 2nd time I used it, I got some alone time, my inhibitions went away again and I felt COMPLETELY female for bursts of like 10-20 minutes throughout the trip.  I wanted to cry, but I just couldn't bring myself to cry.  The "male" side of me was overpowering the female urge to exist as the entire person (i.e. stifling the emotional experience).  In other words, more dissociation.

During this era, I learned about "Mystery Method" and "The Game".  I tried to seduce women, but I quickly learned that I just didn't care about seducing women.  My "friends" liked the fact that I had the balls to approach women so that they could swarm in and get a chance to get laid.  I never tried to get sex from any women this way, as I was just extremely turned off by how the social burden was always on me (the guy).  I wanted to be "alpha", but at the same time, i didn't care about women enough to be alpha.  (Looking back on it, this was my last-ditch effort to grasp onto my heterosexual identity).




I Want to Transition Now
Fast forward to December 27th of 2008.  I was slowly recovering from being mentally beaten to death by graduate school.  The roommates (2 grad students) were out of the house for a week over the Christmas break.  I bought $650 worth of female sex toys, lingerie, makeup, normal girl clothes, a wig, a corset...LOL, you name it.  I had basically prepared to "lay this thing to rest", meaning, I would find out I'm a crossdresser, and then I'd just make plans to live alone and have sex with guys a lot and this would make me happy (yes, I'm sexually frustrated up to this point).

I did my own makeup for the first time (badly), put on all of my stuff, and of course, I got really turned on.  I was having a wonderful crossdresser party.  I took a hit of LSD, and now I was having a REALLY good time alone in the house by myself.  About 2 hours after being dressed this way, I started to actually relax and become really comfortable.  (I didn't even KNOW how uncomfortable I was up to this point, part of being a numb-to-the-world guy).  And then BAM!  I looked in the mirror, and I saw a girl.  It's like I was looking into the mirror and seeing ME for the first time since I was like 13 years old.  Oh God, Oh crap....I started crying.  I threw off the stupid hooker wig, took off the ridiculous corset (I had put on a few lbs. as a guy), and put on more of my normal female clothes.  I cried for like 2 more hours.  "Oh ->-bleeped-<-!" I say to myself.  "I've crossed a line, how the <not allowed> am I supposed to tell my parents!  What will everybody think.  OH GOD!"  "It's like there are 2 different people inside of me, and I've just been ignoring the female part and I can't do it anymore.  I JUST CAN"T." 

During this time, my eyes just seemed to open up wider, my face became more expressive, my body just naturally moved differently.  It felt just like instinct, like I was shaking the rust off of neural circuity that had been there my whole life.

A pattern then ensues over the coming 2 months: I would go back to being a guy and live my normal life, and it would feel like the 8 hours I spent as female were just far too little.  It CRUSHED me to have to go back to the "real world".  I would go to school, get stressed out, spend 5-6 days as a male, and then I just couldn't handle it anymore.  I would seclude myself in my room for like 1-2 days and work on my hair/makeup, talk to the mirror, wear clothing, etc.  The sexual arousal subsided over the last 2 months, and now I don't experience erections from being in female clothing.  However, I try to BE female (dress out, female voice, makeup) every spare chance I can get.  It's hard for me to feel female without makeup, as I have masculine facial features (although they really aren't bad...)

Sometimes I will SNAP and then I'm right back to being female, like opening a book right back to where you were reading.  If I'm really stressed or depressed, I'll try for hours and hours and hours to relax, and then eventually I will see myself as female.  It's hard, because my room is tiny and I have all this makeup and stuff and it just makes a huge mess.  And I have to clear it ALL up EVERY time.  Being ME is A HUGE GIGANTIC PAIN IN THE ASS.  It's frustrating and sad, and I just want to be a female 100% of the time and I wish I could just magically jump into a machine and come out female.  I'm so used to dissociating that I'll be able to make it to June, at which time I can move into my own apartment and dress female 100% of the time at home.







Transgender Theory



How to Be a Girl
Being a girl is something INSIDE you.  That's clear to me.  If you don't believe you're female, nobody else will believe you're female.  I have no problems acting effeminate, and I'm working on my voice.  BEHAVIOR is the most important part of transition, NOT APPEARANCE.  So many of us have spent our lives thinking that female = be a hot girl, and a lot of people focus on the external changes without wanting to be FEMALE (which is really just a specific social construct that prescribes behaviors, such as voice and movement).  I LIKE being effeminate and submissive.  It makes me feel really comfortable and good, and it reduces my stress a lot.

That being said, I have to make my other feelings clear:  I WILL NOT transition to full time until I have FFS.  I want to start HRT ASAP, so I can have enough time for my facial features to soften before getting FFS.  FFS is the most important step for me, and it causes me a lot of anxiety now even though it's at least a year off, probably 1.5 years off.  I HATE doctors, because I don't like blindly following authority.  I'm strongly consider Dr. Suporn.  I will need very minor corrections to my entire face (small bone shaving here and there) and will end up looking very female, as testosterone did not ravage my face as badly as it could have.  I have a naturally heart-shaped face with a good side profile, so I anticipate looking very "normal female".

How can somebody who understands the internal part of transitioning be so focused on the external?  Because I want to socially integrate as female.  Effeminate female-moving males in dresses are cool and people will respect them (Comments like, "Damn, you look good.  Don't let anybody change you" are not what I want).  I want to integrate 100% into society as a female.  A lot of transgender people (just do a cursory search of Youtube, look up Nuclearswan) feel this way.  People are stupid and will judge you based on your looks.  I don't have to be beautiful, but I can't feel like a female if people don't perceive me as female (I'm hyper-perceptive of other peoples' thoughts, call it female intuition...I was born this way).



Theories of Gender Identity (OR Trying To Understand Being Female Using My Male Mind)
If you've done any research on transexualism, you're going to end up with a lot of mush for brains because NOBODY has a coherent approach to the problem. 

I have studied cognitive psychology for 8 years as a researcher, so I'd like to make a straight-forward suggestion: Let's focus on what can be objectively established, and work from there.  What do we KNOW with a scientific certainty?  Only this: some proportion of the population does not behave in ways that are congruent with the male/female dynamic laid out by society.  We can look at this from 2 perspectives:
a) these individuals are mentally deficient and they need treatment by a professional psychologists, or
b) being forced into the male/female dynamic makes these individuals uncomfortable, and rather than abdicating their decisions to society, some proportion of the population will take active control of their gender life and assign it as they see fit (male, female, or genderqueer, or whatever you choose).  I 100% feel that the former model is WRONG, IMMORAL, AND EVIL.  Silence of the Lambs, etc. etc. portrays transpeople as psycho murderers.  Psychiatrists reinforce this notion with BS psychoanalysis (see the transkids website, http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/transkids/ ).  To argue that transexualism is "caused" by one thing is to fail to appreciate the fact that causality is multi-directional, and that trans-people have MANY reasons to want to live as a different sex/gender.

So staying in my "assigned" gender or transitioning to a target gender is a CHOICE, right?  Yes, I can choose to be male and I can choose to be female, given what modern medical procedures.  But can I choose to be happy?  Let's look at an example:  I can also choose to crap on my floor, or I can choose to have a clean room (LOL, bear with the example).  Living in crap will make me unhappy, and no matter how hard I try to like crap, I'm only deluding myself into thinking I like it.  I may have to put up with so much crap that I forget what it's like to not live in crap.  Sometimes, the crap will bother me so much I just can't stand it anymore, but those feelings will only lead to frustration if I don't know how to clean up the crap.  In other words, WE CANNOT change how we feel: it's hard-wired. 

Being female makes me feel good.  Being female makes me feel sexy, just like being in shape does.  I cannot change this about myself - all i can do is repress being female and continue to drown myself in videogames, career, drugs, distractions, meaningless sex with girls I don't care about (I am not attracted to men when I'm male).

So it then becomes a RATIONAL choice for the individual: as an independent and free adult, do you CHOOSE to be female, or do you CHOOSE to be male?  The risk of being male is that you'll continue to be unhappy, lonely, etc.  You can crossdress from time to time to get some relief from the fact that you can't always be a female, and you might even find an open-minded partner out there.  How badly will being male all day long interfere with your happiness?  Is it worth it to flip/flop and lead a double life?

The risk of transitioning is that you could end up worse than you currently are.  Your career can slide, you could end up with an unsatisfactory appearance, you could suffer from unforeseen emotional problems if you're not really transgender (i.e. you fell in love with the fantasy, but didn't integrate reality into your future projections), and it COSTS A LOT OF MONEY!!!!  You have to weight this against the rewards, which are the possibility of being happy, comfortable, content, in love for the first time (you can love others because you feel okay to love yourself).

Something that REALLY REALLY REALLY helps is a process I call "integration".  In my head, there's a 10-year old girl and a 25-year old man.  Integration is the process by which the girl is exposed to the man's thoughts, feelings, needs, and expectations.  In other words, it's simply a maturation process designed to allow my FEMALE side to become mature and rational enough to make decisions for herself.  When I "flip" to female mode, I can't have sex all the time, I can't buy whatever clothes and makeup I want, and I'll have to work and support myself as an adult.  In addition, I'll have to go through a 2nd puberty, which will be painful and awkward at times.  I'll have to figure out HOW TO BE FEMALE from scratch, with the trusty Internet as my guide.  To the extent that I can integrate my 2 personas, the more emotional "ammunition" I will have at my exposure to tackle this difficult problem. 

Let's take a small problem I'm having and apply the integration model: When I stop being female and spend a week as a male, my thinking becomes muddy.  I "over-analyze" everything, I tend to get depressed, anxious, my breathing gets very shallow and I get panicky.  I get "stuck" acting in male mode (just like Heath Ledger got "stuck" as the Joker after filming all day).  I begin to doubt that I can go through with it, that transitioning will just be too hard, that there's no way I'll pass, that the "female mode" is just some sexual fetish i have.  It's all the stuff I told myself for the past 13 years.   If I then snap into female mode, look at MYSELF (I only see me as myself when I'm looking at my female self), I can calmly and rationally meet all of these concerns: 1) Yes, you can actually orgasm as a female, and sex is an important biological need that every human should take care of.  And you no longer associate female clothing with sexual gratification, so why do you still crossdress?   2) You'll pass just fine.  If you're confident in yourself and you work on your appearance, you'll end up more attractive than many genetic women.  3) Happiness takes hard work.  The majority of adults are unhappy because they aren't willing to fulfill their dreams, they just coast along in life.  This is what YOU did for 25 years, and now you see that coasting won't make you happy.

Spending a lot of time as a female is absolutely critical to working out these issues that come up, because it's the FEMALE that is going to be living as the FEMALE full-time in the future. 

Therapists can help, but many of them are trained in cognitive-behavioral methods that are designed to solve depression.  They have no idea how to guide people toward HAPPINESS.  Finding HAPPINESS is the point of transitioning.  If your therapist doesn't have a decent idea of what will and will not make a transgender person happy in the long run, then they are just helping put a bandaid on your depression.  Many therapists just challenge your belief that you're transgender.  We KNOW FOR A FACT that some % of transgender people who have this adversarial process applied to them will go back in the closet and never be happy.  (They're called the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association standards of care).

In a nutshell: when it comes to your own happiness, you'll have to find a way to achieve it, or you'll be damned to a life of unhappiness.



The Act of Self-Determination
Why are some people transgender, and other people aren't?  Can a person take some test and "know" that they're "transgender"?  This is not a question that is meaningful for the individual to ask, because the term "transgender" is a loaded construct.  GENDER ITSELF IS A CONSTRUCT FORCED UPON INDIVIDUALS BY SOCIETY.  The implication of asking such questions is that the INDIVIDUAL, rather than society, is the cause of a condition.  A better question: "Do you believe in the false male/female paradigm?"  Those of us who do not have been scorned, damaged, controlled, and beaten by society.  We're told that we cannot exist as a 3rd gender, that we must be 1 or the other, and that our genitalia dictate how we must act.

If you're reading this, you're probably one of those people who rebelled.

I believe that self-determination is a cornerstone of being transgender.  In the same way that a person will be politically self-determining (ie. you don't believe in either republicans or democrats, that you believe in the Constitution which restricts the size of the government, something both parties refuse to do), an individual can be self-determining about their gender (in the long run).  Autonomous, free adults can be self-determining about their own belief systems, regardless of what those belief systems are.

In this sense, "transgender people" (a utilitarian label I use only for clarity and not for meaning) are simply those people who are more conscious of the fact that gender does not define a person, that they are more than a label.  In other words, we see that OUR OWN GENES have created secondary sex characteristics so that it's easy for people to classify is for the purposes of reproduction.  We choose to disconnect our identities, at some level, from M/F and from out genes, and often try to be the opposite of what we were coerced/forced to become.   

After writing this encyclopedia, let me remark that I wouldn't trade my desire to be female for anything.  It's probably the reason I'm a unique hyperintellectual person.  I had to develop mentally in a way that would help me not only survive, but thrive in a world that would be antagonistic toward me for being myself (a FREE human being).

The end.  I hope that somebody out there reads this and this helps them.  And if you've got any advice or comments, I'd love to hear them.

P.S. Here's some reflections on the questions I asked at the beginning.

1) Do I believe I'll be happy as a female?  To me, the answer is simple (I'm afraid it's a little too simple).  If God could wave a magic wand and I could do whatever I wanted, I'd absolutely be female and never look back.  Additionally, I feel that my emotional and physical needs will be better taken care of as female.  Those two things are what make me want to start on Hormones and get electrolysis right now...

The thing that scares me the most is that I'm making a decision based on my WHOLE life that involves a part of my SEX life.  It's a lot like finding the love of your life and moving to a completely different country to be with that person: what if things go wrong and you get stuck in an unknown territory?  What if its just lust and not love? 

I like to think of the sexual parts of crossdressing in the EXACT SAME way that we think of love between two people: if our brains didn't respond with arousal, people would never connect to have sex and therefore make babies.  In the same way, if I never became aroused when wearing female clothing, I would never have discovered my underlying female neurology (thank god for my younger sister and her panties). Also, we have to understand that successful replication is NOT JUST SEX!!! Humans must raise their young to be self-sustaining so they can do the same, and so on and so on.  Women have sexual arousal when breastfeeding their babies, etc. etc.  Physical pleasure is simply a compass that guides us to the proper behaviors.  Fighting how you feel (repression) leads to depression.

2) I believe that I'm transgender because it's self-evident.  Trying to find some kind of external explanation is pointless, because we cannot objectively determine "who is transgender".  Scientists don't get paid enough to get to the bottom of it.  And the pharmaceutical industry just wants to profit from junk science.  So science is out.  What's left?  Philosophy.  Again, no accountability from reality there.  What I like to do is something the scientists hate: INTROSPECTION.  I know that I feel really good when I'm female (my "energy pattern" is warmer, whiter, more stable, and my energy actually "flows" rather than sits bottled up inside my male container).  And when I'm male, my underlying desire is to just be female - it's the cure for my depression.  I felt guilty for thinking this way, but why?  If being female makes me feel less depressed and anxious, it's because there's something RIGHT about being female, for once in my goddamn life.

3) I like my take on the locus of transexualism, and how it's SOCIETY not the label put on the person that is all F&$ED up.
  •  

Zelane

After reading the first years part. I feel you could just be a crossdresser. Its mostly talking about all the sexual innuendos and the fact you mention 2 sides, male and female.

So to your questions:

1) No, just some time being a girl will be ok I feel
2) Transgender yes, CDs is part of the transgender umbrella
3) Only you know what your road is and no one can or should tell you what road to follow

Things change.


BTW: Gender is NOT a choice... transition is.
  •  

SisterGirlfriend

I also think you might just be a crossdresser. Even reading the account of your childhood, all you seem to mention is the sexual aspect of crossdressing. If you identify as the other gender then by all means you are trans, buuuuuut c'mon, what does being turned on and aroused by the clothing have to do with it? Putting on bras and panties was never a "release" of gender dysphoria for me. I'm also confused by the "male" and "female" persona you mention. I never felt this "split" and I was my female self 24/7, even before transition. Maybe we all come to terms with it differently.
  •  

Soapyshoe

Quote from: SisterGirlfriend on February 17, 2009, 12:22:27 PM
I also think you might just be a crossdresser. Even reading the account of your childhood, all you seem to mention is the sexual aspect of crossdressing. If you identify as the other gender then by all means you are trans, buuuuuut c'mon, what does being turned on and aroused by the clothing have to do with it? Putting on bras and panties was never a "release" of gender dysphoria for me. I'm also confused by the "male" and "female" persona you mention. I never felt this "split" and I was my female self 24/7, even before transition. Maybe we all come to terms with it differently.

Thanks for the feedback guys/gals.

Let me first respond to your question: What's the male/female persona thing?  My physical appearance, my thought patterns, the way I move my body and voice all indicate to me whether I'm male or female.  When I looked in the mirror just now, I saw a face and some hair and some skin.  When I put on my makeup, relax a little, and try to "be myself", I see MYSELF in the mirror.  In other words, I see a person who's no longer acting, a person who is just being herself.  I went through a LOT of guilt over my desire to be female when I was a child, and I'm slowly unwinding that guilt.  I talked a lot about the sexual feelings I got crossdressing a child, but I also desperately wanted to explore my female side but was never able to for more than a few hours at a time, even to this point in my life.  Now, when i'm alone and "crossdressing", I feel very happy and positive and look forward to doing it a lot more.  I do not become sexually aroused by women's clothing anymore, but by combining it with hair/makeup, and behavior, I feel like FEMALE and can think in female ways.  It's like I have access to a part of my brain that I don't have access to when I'm acting like a male.

Another way of explaining it:  Not being "gay" or "girly" is so central to the male way of being and thinking, that when I'm in "male mode", I literally CANNOT handle my emotions.  I am 100% logical, and there's an air-tight seal placed over my ability to feel.  It's like asking a depressed person to "just be happy".  Therefore, my "female side" is just ME turning on my emotional intuition and allowing my emotions to flow out.  I have to do this safely and in privacy, or else I risk having everybody around me freak out.  (Female = emotionally in touch: male =  dissociated zombie person who walks around with a soulless look in his eyes).

I'd like to know more about what you mean when you say, "I was my female self 24/7", because I can't relate to or understand what that feels like.  Was there never a point when you suppressed some part of your personality due to the fact that people wouldn't accept you?  Did your nurturing/caring/submissive/vulnerable side not get locked away due to peoples' reactions to you?  Did people think you were "gay" when you were growing up, given that thought of yourself as female all the time?  I would really like to know more about that feeling.




Some More Questions


I've been very detailed and open here with my experiences, because I have no idea what other trans peoples' childhoods and past experiences are generally like.  My goal is to determine whether I will be happy as a 100% full-time female.  I ABSOLUTELY resist clinical classification - crossdresser/transgender/transexual, whatever.  I want to be happy, and I've been extremely unhappy with my life so far.  I'm VERY VERY happy when I get to spend time being female, and not acting like a guy for the world (again, this could just be me crossdressing, but then it may be something more). 

To clarify something, when I look in the mirror and see myself as female, I can think much more clearly and calmly (dysphoria lifting?).  I have such a strong daily persona (my male persona) that it's hard for me to even relax and be myself when I get time, just like Heath Ledger couldn't stop being the Joker at the end of the day.  I don't like the way my body looks, and never have.  I hate my clothes, and go through the day in a dissociative fog, detached from my feelings.  But I can see your point, that just crossdressing may be the most appropriate outlet for me.

I'm still interested in everybody's opinions.  What do other people think?

And do you guys have any comments on my transgender theories?

Thanks!!!
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NicholeW.

Hello, Soapy, welcome to Susan's. I have some opinions, but am re-reading your post yet again and would rather withhold them at the moment.

How to explain dysphoria? Let me see ... one knows she is who she is and discovers, ususally pretty young, that that is not what others tell her she is. It's not so much I have had a "male side" as I have had male conditioning that covered the female i am. Think of it more as a girl child being raised to be a boy, sent to do boy-things and trying very hard to please and do well while she was sure that her upbringing wasn't "right."

I dunno, maybe that approaches it.

As a clinician I'd suggest you spend some time doing clinical before you get too attached to your theories. If you've been in school for about 8 years I presume you've only "been in school" and your clinical work has been internships of one sort or another?

Of course, I know nothing about your history other than what you've given here, so that could well be wrong.

Anyhoo, welcome to Susan's.

Nichole
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Soapyshoe

Quote from: Nichole on February 17, 2009, 08:26:46 PM

As a clinician I'd suggest you spend some time doing clinical before you get too attached to your theories. If you've been in school for about 8 years I presume you've only "been in school" and your clinical work has been internships of one sort or another?


Thanks for the reply!  I look forward to your opinion.

I've discussed a lot of my "theories" with my therapist, and we have a high level of agreement on what my best "treatment" options are (I don't believe I'm in need of any "treatment", that transitioning is a lifestyle decision I have to make for myself).  Basically, we're going to take things slowly, work through the emotional issues, and spend the next year and a half discussing whether my transitional decisions are right for me (among other issues).  We're both very clear that if I become uncomfortable transitioning, I can let her know and that whatever I decide for myself is OK.

As for the theories, I've been developing these ideas independently since I was 16.  These are more of my "hyperintellectual opinion" than a set, scientific theory.  They are primarily rooted in my belief that individuals should be self-determining.  I make a VERY STRONG assumption that people should think for themselves rather than follow along with what people on the Internet/gender therapists/parents/teachers/friends/religious people tell them.  It's MY LIFE, and I have to live with the consequences.  Therefore, I will follow my heart rather than a few rules written by a guy from 1970 which may or may not be based on scientifically valid research pertaining to longitudinal outcomes in a era where they didn't even have FFS.  Surprisingly, my therapist and I agree that the Standards of Care are more "ethical guidelines" than "laws." 

I've been a "scientist" since I was 18 (doing academic research in psychology, not clinical work), and I've come to have a very negative opinion of the Western medical and scientific establishments.  That being said, I HIGHLY respect the humanistic approach that my therapist employs. 
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SisterGirlfriend

Hey Soapyshoe,

You put a lot of effort into your post so I'll address everything you said with as much effort as I can muster. 

Quote from: Soapyshoe on February 17, 2009, 07:56:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys/gals.

I'd like to know more about what you mean when you say, "I was my female self 24/7", because I can't relate to or understand what that feels like.  Was there never a point when you suppressed some part of your personality due to the fact that people wouldn't accept you?  Did your nurturing/caring/submissive/vulnerable side not get locked away due to peoples' reactions to you?  Did people think you were "gay" when you were growing up, given that thought of yourself as female all the time?  I would really like to know more about that feeling.

The truth of the matter is that I was an obviously effeminate child. I was bullied and pressured into comforming to a typical male standard of behavior, but it just didn't work for me. I only enjoyed girl's toys and the company of girls, I liked song and dance, I pretended I was a Disney princess, I roleplayed the "pink power ranger" when I was with my friends, and I walked with a swish and talked with a lisp. It was just very obvious to everyone and couldn't be hidden no matter how hard I tried. I guess I identified as "gay" before transition, but I was so young that the label was ultimately meaningless. I'm still in my late teens mind you and began transition within the last year and a half.

QuoteI've been very detailed and open here with my experiences, because I have no idea what other trans peoples' childhoods and past experiences are generally like.  My goal is to determine whether I will be happy as a 100% full-time female.  I ABSOLUTELY resist clinical classification - crossdresser/transgender/transexual, whatever.  I want to be happy, and I've been extremely unhappy with my life so far.  I'm VERY VERY happy when I get to spend time being female, and not acting like a guy for the world (again, this could just be me crossdressing, but then it may be something more).

It could very well be more. I'd be lying if I said I'd never heard a narrative similar to yours from other transwomen. You say you're at your happiest when you're living in a female role, so there's that. ALSO, I understand why you resist the clinical classification. I'm a child of liberal thinking that says gender is a construct and blahblahblah, so why should I even have to label myself as anything? I gave you some information on my childhood above, and while your history may not be similar its JUST as valid. I don't think any of us can tell you if you'd be happier as female though, that's something for you to decide through some trial and error.

QuoteTo clarify something, when I look in the mirror and see myself as female, I can think much more clearly and calmly (dysphoria lifting?).  I have such a strong daily persona (my male persona) that it's hard for me to even relax and be myself when I get time, just like Heath Ledger couldn't stop being the Joker at the end of the day.  I don't like the way my body looks, and never have.  I hate my clothes, and go through the day in a dissociative fog, detached from my feelings.  But I can see your point, that just crossdressing may be the most appropriate outlet for me.

If living in a male role is something that distracts you throughout the day and leaves you feeling dissociated and imprisoned, then transition is something you SHOULD seriously consider. But living as a woman is more than just dressing as female in private...are you comfortable with taking that role on a 24/7 basis, at work/school, with your friends or partners?

Your integration theory might be relevant to those who share a similiar history as you. I like your reasoning there.



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NicholeW.

I concur completely with your stance about humanistic approaches. The point is that one hardly uses behavioral therapies on machines, is it? :) I use Relational-Cultural approaches and models and Interpersonal models for my work primarily.

But there are lots of good points about more pragmatic approaches like CBT and DBT along with ACT can work wonders in short time-frames for alleviating distress. A woman I am hoping to work with shortly has been trained at the Gestalt Institute and I'm impressed by a lot of her approaches to therapy, especially with gender/sex dysphorias.

One finds that the more tools available in the toolbox, the better the results are likely to be.

I tend not to be a huge worshiper of Harry Benjamin myself, but he did begin what had prior to him been subject to no evidence of any kind. He was definitely a pioneer and used humanistic approaches himself.

With newer biology-based understandings I think that therapists may well be on the road to doing therapy rather than simply some sort of gender-based decision-making. I think the SOC makes a good framework, but tend to find the various DSM pathologies to be carefully based on thought experiments and suppositions rather than on any evidence-based protocols. So, I don't think that you and I are far apart in that regard.

As I've said before though, tossing babies out along with bathwater gets to be tantamount to infanticide and I'm not for that either!! :) There's lots of good in the SOC and I definitely am of the opinion that using medical help to transition isn't a bad idea at all.

I do wish the medical establishment would do more to update information so that even the best-willed doctors aren't using so-called gg levels for estrogen therapy though. Due to site rules I hesitate to go any further than that. But don't find in my experience that E-levels are particularly effective as they are for many women with transsexing histories.

I better inform you that most of what i see wrong with our current state of affairs with GID is that the foundation for so much of the DSM categories and the changes likely to come to the fore after 2012 is that they are based on "belief" rather than any solid scientific ground. That is a problem, I think.

So, again, with your theories I hesitate to say I agree with any of them as they do appear to be based on personal belief. That's all well and good for a person, but might tend to be less good for a range of human beings. :)

My personal experience was that GID was not something I chose to experience, nor did I think that I was more comfortable being female any more than I thought I would be more comfortable being locomotive. It was simply how my life was/is.

Did I have a choice to transition? Well, yes. I believe that I did. It was a choice between no longer wishing to live in a box constructed by the doctor who checked out my genitalia when i was born and moving outside of that box and fulfilling my own life in the body and mind I had/have.

I didn't switch roles or suitabilities at all. I changed my genital sex.

Nichole




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Soapyshoe

Quote from: SisterGirlfriend on February 17, 2009, 09:04:48 PM
Hey Soapyshoe,

The truth of the matter is that I was an obviously effeminate child. I was bullied and pressured into comforming to a typical male standard of behavior, but it just didn't work for me. I only enjoyed girl's toys and the company of girls, I liked song and dance, I pretended I was a Disney princess, I roleplayed the "pink power ranger" when I was with my friends, and I walked with a swish and talked with a lisp. It was just very obvious to everyone and couldn't be hidden no matter how hard I tried. I guess I identified as "gay" before transition, but I was so young that the label was ultimately meaningless. I'm still in my late teens mind you and began transition within the last year and a half.


If living in a male role is something that distracts you throughout the day and leaves you feeling dissociated and imprisoned, then transition is something you SHOULD seriously consider. But living as a woman is more than just dressing as female in private...are you comfortable with taking that role on a 24/7 basis, at work/school, with your friends or partners?

Your integration theory might be relevant to those who share a similiar history as you. I like your reasoning there.

Thank you for sharing your childhood experience.  You're the first person I've actually heard something like this from. 

I feel like I had a...weird childhood?  Despite my mother being a Mormon, she was really neglectful, and in this sense I had to develop "tough skin" as a child.  I had to do a lot of things for myself, and I NEVER trusted anybody with how I actually felt.  Now here's where it gets weird: I have no idea how I FELT about my gender when I was a kid, other than I got a warm fuzzy feeling down there when i put on a girls dress, and I knew to be ashamed of it.  I was just lonely, moody, and depressed from an early age.  I played with boys growing up, mostly because it was outdoorsy and active (I was a very psychedelic kid, daydreaming a lot, escaping the hell of my life).  I mostly thought girls were boring.  My sister played along with the boys and never had girls for friends growing up.

I was trained to CONFORM OBEY BE GOOD from the moment I could talk.  If I wanted to explore being a girl, there's no way in HELL that would have even remotely occurred in my childhood.  That's perhaps why it's taken me 25 years to really start to explore this side of myself.   I've been EMOTIONALLY unable to fulfill a desire I've had my entire life, for fearing of spending eternity in Hell.


Would I feel comfortable as a female 24/7?  Absolutely - but the catch is that I need a LOT of practice.  I'm so overwhelmed right now, I want to start keeping up on fashion, watch MTV, practice my female voice, go shopping for clothes, etc...but it's only been 2 months since I came out of my "fog" and realized that there's something about me that's not going away, and that I don't just wanna put on panties and pleasure myself...I want to look in the mirror and see myself every time I look into it.

Here's another way of looking at it: Most people in transition haven't buried their feelings under the weight of guilt that I've had, and therefore have had years of clarity about their gender identity.  These people are like a really large company that's about to become a Fortune 500 company (i.e. fully realized female).  I feel like a kid fresh out of college who wants to start a business, but hasn't even run a lemonade stand.  In other words, I've had so much guilt, depression, shame, and fear foisted upon me, that it's kinda hard to navigate emotionally.  (Heh, I really need to take transition slowly is what I'm realizing).

I apologize if I'm sounding negative or self-loathing - I take a VERY realistic approach to this serious decision I have to make.  The way I've always delt with my problems is to gather information and make the most informed choice.

-Ashling


Quote from: SisterGirlfriend on February 17, 2009, 12:22:27 PM
Even reading the account of your childhood, all you seem to mention is the sexual aspect of crossdressing. If you identify as the other gender then by all means you are trans, buuuuuut c'mon, what does being turned on and aroused by the clothing have to do with it?

I didn't mean to imply that it was purely 100% sexual for me in my childhood and adolescence.  When I was 12, I would often fantasize about going to school as a girl, act like a girl (when I was wearing skirts and tight tops), and I wanted to explore this side of me SOOOOOOO badly....but all I could afford to do was crossdress when nobody was around and it was 100% safe. 

Another thing I should mention is that, as a young child, I probably got away with being effeminate and just never labeled it as such.  It wasn't until I went to Kindergarten, I specifically recall an older girl taking me under her wing and telling me, "Don't cross your legs that way," and other small stuff like that.  The thing is, boys and girls have similar gender behaviors, with very few exaggerated gender differences, whereas puberty leads to exaggeration.  For example, both young boys and girls have effeminate walking styles.  This is one of the reasons why I have trouble understanding exactly how children can have strong feelings one way or the other about their gender before adolescence.     

As a child, I was really naive and just didn't understand why people were telling me to conform to certain gender stereotype behaviors in Kindergarten.  I was really "in my own little world" as a kid.

P.S. I changed my handle to Ashling (it's more of a name I would use post-transition).

P.S.S. http://www.transgendercare.com/guidance/gender_expressions.htm  Take a look at the first 1/2.  I could have written this article by hand, before I read it today.  It's EXACTLY how I feel - artificial male persona that needs to be peeled away, so I can start to explore and express my femininity in the ways that will maximize my overall happiness. 
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Nicky

We can know because it is what we feel. I think you can analyse things all you like but the reasons 'why' won't change how you feel. Sometimes you have to let things go and just exist to find peace, though I do understand that in reality it can take a bit of a journey to reach that point. That is my bit of wisdom for ya.

1) time will tell
2) I believe you are transgendered because that is what you feel.
3) see above

Simple eh? I'm just the misstress of compression  ;).

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imaz

Hi Ashling,

What's really weird is I still get that feeling if a man hits on me and I like him. I identify as lesbian but who knows...

Perhaps I'm still in denial in regards gender and sexuality after all these years or maybe all of us are ;D

Post Merge: February 18, 2009, 09:34:40 AM

Quote from: Ashling on February 17, 2009, 08:52:51 PM
I've been a "scientist" since I was 18 (doing academic research in psychology, not clinical work), and I've come to have a very negative opinion of the Western medical and scientific establishments.  That being said, I HIGHLY respect the humanistic approach that my therapist employs.

Very interesting, I'm married to psychology lecturer from a Muslim country in South East Asia who also has a very low opinion of such matters. She feels that Western psychology is not necessarily applicable in many instances despite the fact she is constrained to teach what is basically a Western curriculum.

My main problem with therapists is that the vast majority are even crazier than their clients, not a great starting point.

removed some drug use references - Nicky
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Soapyshoe

Thanks for the replies everybody.  It's really been helping me to navigate my own feelings knowing what I now know from other peoples' experiences.  Yes, I did feel "all alone" for a long time, despite knowing so many TG people are out there.

I've been emotionally dissociating for so long, I thought that I might have lost my soul.  For example, around age 16, I lost my ability to "feel" music that was central to my "spiritual" existence as a human being.  I told people about this in college, but they couldn't understand what I meant. 

Taking acid itself didn't restore the music, but once I started getting in more in touch with my emotions and dealing with them, I'm hearing music in a COMPLETELY different way now.  It's just...amazing.  Being MYSELF (which happens to be increasingly femenine/female) puts me in touch with a "spiritual" place via music (I use the term spiritual to specifically refer to an experience in which I'm "one" with some kind of sonic energy...the day-to-day struggle, the money, the gender, the clothes...everything just evaporates when I'm totally immersed in music.  I transcend my physical surroundings?)

-Ashling


Quote from: Nicky on February 18, 2009, 02:17:25 PM
We can know because it is what we feel. I think you can analyse things all you like but the reasons 'why' won't change how you feel. Sometimes you have to let things go and just exist to find peace, though I do understand that in reality it can take a bit of a journey to reach that point. That is my bit of wisdom for ya.

1) time will tell
2) I believe you are transgendered because that is what you feel.
3) see above

Simple eh? I'm just the misstress of compression  ;).

Letting go is the scary part!  Sometimes it feels like you're falling into an bottomless black pit....

Time is so crucial for me at this point...and taking things slowly.  I never had a chance to really explore my gender identity in a safe place until I was 25.  If I hadn't had such a ->-bleeped-<-ed up life, I'm fairly confident I would have transitioned a decade ago. 

Saying things like the previous sentence is going to make me cry when I let go enough to really be myself (basically, when I'm in a safer environment than I'm in now).  I sound happy to the people around me, but I'm still dealing with so much emotional devastation from dissociating for 25 years.

removed some drug use references - Nicky
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imaz

Hi Ashling,

Used to be into music loads when I was young but only took up guitar after transitioning, I'm pretty rubbish to be honest but can hit it sometimes improvising.

Spiritual side? Well I do pray and do what in Islam we call Zikir/Tasbih (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasbih), do Asma ul Husna (99 names of God) and sometimes that can really take one in a big way.

Be yourself my friend, have faith in yourself, love yourself and others will love you too. This may sound facile but it's very hard for all of us to do whether we be Straight, Gay, Trans or whatever. It is the only way, everything else is denial, deflection and self deception.

removed some drug use references - Nicky
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Soapyshoe

Quote from: imaz on February 18, 2009, 08:46:49 PM

Be yourself my friend, have faith in yourself, love yourself and others will love you too. This may sound facile but it's very hard for all of us to do whether we be Straight, Gay, Trans or whatever. It is the only way, everything else is denial, deflection and self deception.

For me, the key to being myself is to just live courageously, as a (wo)man rather than a mouse.  I started out life being terrified that I'd go to Hell for wanting to be female.  Sometimes, I felt like God knew the struggle I was going through and approved of my journey.  I actually went to the Mormon Temple the EXACT DAY after I had a dream in which I was female.  I felt female the whole day, kind of going through the male motions required of me, but in a complete (day)dream trance world in my own mind.  That day is kind of a metaphor for my entire life, sadly.

Behaving/dressing/being female has just been a dream since as long as I can remember.  Although i rejected Mormonism at 16, I've just been too afraid/guilty/depressed to express the underlying femenine impulses I've always had.  Living courageously should allow me to finally be at peace, and therefore love myself.  I might actually be able to love others as a result...

Before I joined these forums, I thought transitioning was just about becoming female.  I'm learning that transitioning is PRIMARILY about growing as a person and resolving EVERY issue that stands in the way of actualizing yourself, be they emotional issues, negative beliefs, fears, etc.  Although it's conceivable that I won't end up living full-time as a female, that issue has very much become irrelevant to me now.  I'm really just focused on being myself, first and foremost, and if this means living full time or being a circus clown or whatever, I'm going to do it.
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TheBattler

Ashling,

I find your theray very interesting as I am about to go through DBT. Wellcome to Susans.

Alice
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