Long-term testosterone effects?

[burgandy]

I'm male, and I'm really curious as to what I've to look forward to if I spend the rest of my life with testosterone.  I'm not really sure how I want to deal with my gender issues, and any increased masculinisation would definitely have an effect on that.  I don't feel like a woman particularly (although I don't mind being thought one), so full-out transition would (for me) be more work than it's worth.  But I definitely don't want to end up looking like a man.  As it is, and I'm young (21), strangers tend to take me as a woman more often than not (though that's probably more about clothing and accessories and not having visible beard shadow (light-coloured facial hair)), and I haven't gotten anything but "ma'am" on the phone in years.  (I talked in a lower voice when I was an angsty, bitter teen, but by my senior year of high school, it magically got higher-pitched and perkier, in step with my attitude!  Sometimes it's a real nuisance:  When I call my bank or the school records office, they have a hard time reconciling a man name and a non-man voice.)

But back to my point:  About two years ago, I got a real boost in the body-hair department (eww, I know), and I also now have what I assume is full beard growth.  What else, besides putting my *good* hair in danger, is testosterone going to do to me?  I've heard that my skin will get rough quicker, towards middle age.  Are there any structural changes, like facial bones, that could likely get further masculinised at this point?

I know this gets addressed from time to time in passing, but I don't think there's been an actual thread about it, and I know this seems like it'd be common sense, but in my little world, many of the sex differences in ageing seem likely to be caused by gender, women wearing make-up and men not so much as wearing work-gloves or sunscreen and such.

I'm sorry for rambling on, but this has really been bothering me for a while.

~ Burgundy ~

[Janet_Girl]

For me it was wrinkles early, full beard, male pattern baldness. anger at everything, begin expected to act male.

It would have been better to stop it at your age, if I could have.

Janet

[Nero]

How do you feel about anti-androgens?

[sparkles]

this is what i fear the most, living with testosterone and getting maler if thats a word, as i get older, i will cry if my hair starts to decline. im hoping that i will be able to do something about this in the near future and minimise the effects that testosterone will have in the future. its not that i want to be female its just i dont want to be male and the longer i go the more male i will look feel

[burgandy]

Janet Lynn,

I keep hearing that testosterone is responsible for anger.  And here all this time I'd been thinking that I'd had some terrible past life!  :P  That makes me wonder though, do FTMs get angrier when they start on T, or is it just a product of T and dysphoria?


Nero,

Not very good, actually.  I was under the impression that being on androgen antagonists long-term was inadvisable.  I've thought about getting them^1 short-term (couple years) to see what not having testosterone is like, and to see where I end up.  I'd feel pretty dumb getting castrated and then getting an SRS a few years later...

Speaking of which, is it possible to have a "genderless" transition?  That is, could I go from being a not-man, not-woman male to a not-man, not-woman female, or is that my lack of years and experience thinking?


Sparkles,

I'm glad to see that I'm not alone on this.  The hair thing truly is terrifying.  I wish I'd just get funny bumps on my testickles so I could get my family doctor to lob them off for me.


1.  With a therapist's approval, of course.  The thought of self-medicating hormones seems extremely inadvisable.  Anyways, I'll be needing a therapist if I want castration.

[Nero]

Speaking of which, is it possible to have a "genderless" transition?  That is, could I go from being a not-man, not-woman male to a not-man, not-woman female, or is that my lack of years and experience thinking?

Depends what you mean by 'not-man, not-woman male' to not-man, not-woman female'. You can get nullified and have 'nothing' down there at all, just smooth.
I don't know about the hormones. Maybe anti-androgens and a low dose of estrogen to try to 'balance' your male body into a more gender neutral state.

[burgandy]

Depends what you mean by 'not-man, not-woman male' to not-man, not-woman female'. You can get nullified and have 'nothing' down there at all, just smooth.
I don't know about the hormones. Maybe anti-androgens and a low dose of estrogen to try to 'balance' your male body into a more gender neutral state.

Oh, I wasn't very clear, was I?  I meant -- and like I said, I haven't been to a therapist yet -- do I have to go tell everyone that I'm a woman trapped in a man's body?  After I get electro -- I really haven't started anything yet -- could I just get on androgen blockers and oestrogen and just let the chips fall where they may?

Now that I think about it, that's probably not what I want; I guess if I was going to be going through that much work, growing boobs, and obviously not being to downplay *that* around my family, I'd probably be happiest finishing the social transition (name, pronouns, identification paperwork, etc.) whether or not I got SRS.  Like I said, I'm young and really not sure how I want to handle being male.

~ Burgundy ~

[Kinkly]

I get the not a man not a woman and the need to change your body in a non binary way if you wish to nullify your body it can be done the only person I know of who has gone all the way in that regard is Andra (I think thats how sie Spells it)
tell your theropist the trueth not what you think will get treatment
good luck 

[sparkles]

kinklys right you need to tell people how you feel and explore that you might come to the conclusion that you want it all you might not. there is no right or wrong answer. at the moment im doing the not male thing, which works with poeple that know you as long as you explain it to them, though with people that dont you just end up being female, the thring with hormones is its an all or nothing sort of thing, though there ways of minimising effects and a doc would be able to help you with this. it would be a balance. id go for the electro/laser as it makes a big difference and you have plenty of time, though i can understand the feeling of needing to do it now or you will be forever male, i have 10 years on you and worry constently my hair will recede. :0)

[noeleena]

hi...Burgundy.    i come from a farming community . so for sheep we use a elasitater   it has a rubber band we put on the male lambs  testes ..... dont worry i thought of doing that years ago ....i was not.  young enough at the time   he he ,,,,,any way . i was thinking . how do you see your self as male & female in how you think . what do you really see . you are a lot younger than i ...& i know it took me a long time to know who ..what i was ... so dont be in to big a hurry as you talk to some of us youll see we are all different yet in lots of ways the same . i had 50 years as a male  now i have had 11 as female
      i know it poses    it did for me ... being andro . & knowing  has helped me in so many ways being content & not being all male has helped .... any way just a thought ...
      ...noeleena...

[burgandy]

kinklys right you need to tell people how you feel and explore that you might come to the conclusion that you want it all you might not. there is no right or wrong answer. at the moment im doing the not male thing, which works with poeple that know you as long as you explain it to them, though with people that dont you just end up being female, the thring with hormones is its an all or nothing sort of thing, though there ways of minimising effects and a doc would be able to help you with this. it would be a balance. id go for the electro/laser as it makes a big difference and you have plenty of time, though i can understand the feeling of needing to do it now or you will be forever male, i have 10 years on you and worry constently my hair will recede. :0)

Oh, I know that going down the hormones route would end up making me definitely female.

I don't really want to be physically androgynous; I would just be content to be so because I don't really have a solid gender concept.  If it were as simple as choosing, I'd definitely choose to be female.

My biggest concern right now is avoiding any further male development, especially any that's difficult to reverse.  Obviously there's hair loss to worry about, but on both sides of my family, receeding hairline doesn't seem to show up till middle age, so I've probably got a little bit of time before seriously worrying about that (I hope); mostly I'm just wondering if there's anything else I have coming that I'm going to wish that I would have prevented...

Noeleena -- Everyone that I've talked to seems to think that home castration's a bad idea, especially since a medically-sanctioned one is less than five grand.  It really wouldn't be worth the risk, and I figure I probably should see a therapist regardless.  If you're asking me how I see my gender identity, I don't really:  Ever since I was a little kid, I've always perceived "gender" as a silly little game that people play with themselves, insisting on being and acting like "men" or "women", when (to me) those concepts (masculinity, feminity) are no more real or fundamental than the red or blue team in capture-the-flag, and certainly not associated with biology.  Having said that, I definitely think the "woman" look is far more appealing.  Does that make any sense?

[Nicky]

Well, there is the possibility you could get antiandrogens in the short term while you figure it out. That would stop any more masculanisation and sounds like the good bet to me.

But I think maybe you are getting a step ahead of yourself. I don't know what country you are in, but in many places you need approval from a therapist or similar to get hormone therapy. A therapist would also help you sort out your gender issues. I would recomend finding a good one.

It sounds to me like you want a female body but don't feel like you are a woman. That is a good place to start exploring things I reckon. A non-binary gender is not always something that is easily solidified as there is no one concept to adhere to and some of us feel like we have no gender at all. Then there are some of us that discover in the end that we are actually women or men.

Good journey Burgandy, nice to meet you!

[noeleena]

hi... Burgundy.. yes it does make sense . thats why now i am able to see things in a way i never could . before just to young then .  .. your comment on differeces yes i was much like that .. i just do not see it ... oh the games that are played ...yeap
what county you hail from  .  the other detail is would you like to have kids ....  you know family matters . going on h r t . is not to be taken lighty ... as you know . yet there are things that would be best talked about with .... the phycos can help .. yet the endo.s will be the one .s have the test,s done then going from there  will determan how you go ... long term that is . the short term ... hmmmm how long . that allso needs to be looked at .
   I know what your saying your right it pays to talk it through ......
      ...noeleena...

[burgandy]

Well, there is the possibility you could get antiandrogens in the short term while you figure it out. That would stop any more masculanisation and sounds like the good bet to me.

But I think maybe you are getting a step ahead of yourself. I don't know what country you are in, but in many places you need approval from a therapist or similar to get hormone therapy. A therapist would also help you sort out your gender issues. I would recomend finding a good one.

It sounds to me like you want a female body but don't feel like you are a woman. That is a good place to start exploring things I reckon. A non-binary gender is not always something that is easily solidified as there is no one concept to adhere to and some of us feel like we have no gender at all. Then there are some of us that discover in the end that we are actually women or men.

Good journey Burgandy, nice to meet you!

Thank you Nicky!

I don't mean to sound like I'm getting ahead of myself.  Mostly I'm just weighing my options at this point, and I'm trying to make sure that I'm not missing some window of opportunity, that five years from now I won't realise that I wold have been physically better had I taken action now.  Obviously, I can see (looking back) that I had a lot of negative changes in the last five years (mostly body hair), and I don't want to have another set of regrets, now that I'm in a position where I could do something about it.

Assuming nothing drastic pops up (like hair loss!), I think I'll work on sorting out my gender by myself for a while and see where I get.  I'm still in school, so that's a financial priority at the moment.  Once I get out, I'm planning on getting electro and if I'm still thinking like I am now, I'll get a therapist and work through things and decide where to go next.

Noeleena, that's something I'm keeping in mind.  I'm not planning on reproducing, but if I do go forward with anything, I'll have some swimmers frozen, just in case.

Again, thanks for all of the input!

    ~ Burgundy ~

[Shion]

Hey, you sound kinda like me, except I'm opposite. When I was little I also never really considered my own gender. But I guess if I had to pick one, I would rather be a guy. Unfortunately I never thought about it before when I was younger. Now I came to think about it, but my body has already developed into a girl's body. Seems like you still have some time though. So I would do as everyone has suggested, and go see a therapist about it first. And maybe a trans-friendly endo, who can probably tell you more about androgen blockers or whatever else your options might be, than we could.

[Nicky]

Sounds like a plan Burgundy.

There is no real hurry, there are a lot of benefits in waiting. It can feel like you are running out of time or you regret not doing things sooner but there really is plenty of time. In the mean time you could also explore other aspects like the clothes you wear, jewlery, make-up. Some people work at adjusting their voice, or think about they way they behave or carry themselves, or just analyse the way they act and move naturally. Allow yourself to take brakes from thinking about it too as it can become consuming. I think there is huge benefit to just being.