stop dressing your children

[rottingteeth]

in pink and blue. you do NOT know what gender that child is, and you will not know until they tell you. it makes me sick, makes me cringe when I see children dressed in gender specific clothes. these stereotypes, this forced gender binary, needs to die.

seriously. it's not as simple as box "M" and box "F".

I posted this in another forum (I was particularly frustrated that day) in reference to transsexuals. here's the link to the thread there: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?p=1075798#post1075798

the replies are pretty harsh...but I wanted to know what YOU guys think. do you agree or disagree?

[Chamillion]

I respectfully disagree. my mom dressed me in girl clothes when I was really young, what else would she do? she didn't know I was trans. I don't remember it, it didn't harm me, and I don't feel hurt by it. by the time I was about 4 or 5 I started rejecting these clothes though, and she was cool with that and let me wear what I want. I do think that's necessary, once a child has rejected the clothes you give them then yeah stop dressing them like that. but when they're really young, I don't think it matters much

[rottingteeth]

maybe I just haven't explained well enough. let me try again.

I'll put it this way...

if people dropped the pink and blue, dresses and "boy clothes" (with all kinds of sports motifs etc), and dressed all of their children neutral, it would have to mean that they have all learned/accepted that things (gender, at least) aren't always what they appear. it would mean that people (in cultures where it is an issue) have accepted transsexuality as a part of reality. you don't think that would be a good thing?

another thing is, I'm pre-T. after I fully transition, what if I wanted to show someone pictures of me as a baby/toddler, or someone happens upon them? I'd have to explain, because the person would probably be thinking wtf, why did his mom dress her little boy like a girl? this would not be an issue if we all dressed children in neutral clothing, until they are old enough to decide what gender they are/what they like to wear.

I think it would be nice if I had some pictures of me as a child in which I'm not in stereotypical girl clothes and haircuts. it makes me sad to look at them, that I was assumed to be a girl and raised and dressed as one. it doesn't SEEM to be a big deal, and no, it didn't really hurt me, and it's not that I'm so bothered that I was adorned in pink as a baby. I had no idea. no, it didn't hurt me, it couldn't have, and I can dress as I please now (ironically, I like to crossdress) but this is NOT THE POINT! the thing that bothers me is IGNORANCE and DISREGARD of transsexuality! do you see what I mean now? and do you still disagree?

[sneakersjay]

I see what you're saying, but trans kids are fairly rare; the majority of kids are cis-gendered.  I dressed my kids in gender-specific clothing, though my daughter wore a lot of overalls and solid colors, and we didn't break out the sports motif for my son.  When they were old enough to voice their opinions, I bought them clothes that they wanted, and that was that.

It would be nice if nobody were born trans, or that those of us who are came with a label slapped on our foreheads to clue in our parents, but that's not to be.  There *are* gender differences, which is why we trans-folk have such a hard time being in the wrong body.  If the world were truly gender neutral, would that really matter much?

Jay

[Miniar]

The moment I found out I was pregnant I made a conscious decision.
I would not tell my family, or anyone, the sex of the child.
I would put forward a rule of "no pink".
And then when my daughter was born, there was a host of greens, browns, purples, reds, deep-warm blues. All kinds of Beautifully coloured clothes, and none of them "girly".
Her toys were rather neutral as well.

As she's grown up I've let her make her own decisions as to colours to wear and such and I've got to say, the girl is a smart dresser with excellent taste.
She's got an interest in cars and buildable things and anything artsy, but there's no doubt in my mind that she's a girl (though should that change.. *shrug* no difference to me).

I have to admit. Seeing the way she is today, with a snazzy taste and a passion for the creative arts, that I would feel absolutely unfair if I were to put her in a pink dress and expect her to be "girly" because she's not that person.
And that leads me to look at the parents that pat their boys on the back and tell them to "be tough" when they trip on the street, or put their girls in pink tutu's and call them "little princess", as if they're somewhat unfair as well, because it seems they've decided that that's who the child is, instead of learning to know them as individual persons separate of what they want in an offspring.
Like the child is a doll to dress up, not a human being.

But that's just me.

[placeholdername]

On many levels I agree with you... but I think the way you're going about it is just asking for a fight.  Anytime you shout at someone, "DO THIS!" there's going to be a bunch of people who shout back "GTFO of my business!"

[Jay]

I agree to a certain extent. I know guys and girls who both wear blue and pink. A colour doesn't necessary mean a gender.

Jay

[Victoria L.]

I see where you're coming from, but I don't know if that in itself is that big of a deal.

Still it reminds me of last night when I was in Target with my parents... I saw a little boy picking a Nintendo DS, and the lady that was helping them out said "You can choose between these colors: Red, Blue, Pink...etc." and then she was like "Well I know you don't want the pink one..."

I really wish the little boy had said "No, that's the one I want!", I would have loved to have seen her reaction. =P

Okay, now, I read some of the responses and I've seen this before:

"Boy=Penis
Girl=Vagina."

It makes me so mad... and it's just really weird how the person's username is "Guitarboy" but their gender says they're female.

[Flameboy]

My friend lets her son (he's 4) wear whatever he wants to wear. At the moment, he spends most days dressed either as Superman or as Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz. Sometimes he wears trousers, and other times he prefers to wear dresses - because he likes to look pretty. He doesn't seem to have any gender issues, however; he's certain that he's a boy, and is aware that when he's wearing a dress people often assume he's a girl. Sometimes he corrects them and other times he just lets it go, depending on whether he can be bothered or not - and yes, he really is 4!

Personally, I think it's cool that she lets him express himself however he wants through his clothing, and it makes him happy too. Maybe he'll grow up to be transgender, and maybe he won't - either way it's just not an issue.

[rottingteeth]

The moment I found out I was pregnant I made a conscious decision.
I would not tell my family, or anyone, the sex of the child.
I would put forward a rule of "no pink".
And then when my daughter was born, there was a host of greens, browns, purples, reds, deep-warm blues. All kinds of Beautifully coloured clothes, and none of them "girly".
Her toys were rather neutral as well.

As she's grown up I've let her make her own decisions as to colours to wear and such and I've got to say, the girl is a smart dresser with excellent taste.
She's got an interest in cars and buildable things and anything artsy, but there's no doubt in my mind that she's a girl (though should that change.. *shrug* no difference to me).

I have to admit. Seeing the way she is today, with a snazzy taste and a passion for the creative arts, that I would feel absolutely unfair if I were to put her in a pink dress and expect her to be "girly" because she's not that person.
And that leads me to look at the parents that pat their boys on the back and tell them to "be tough" when they trip on the street, or put their girls in pink tutu's and call them "little princess", as if they're somewhat unfair as well, because it seems they've decided that that's who the child is, instead of learning to know them as individual persons separate of what they want in an offspring.
Like the child is a doll to dress up, not a human being.

But that's just me.

wow. that is just beautiful, and wonderfully said. if only all parents were as considerate and intelligent as you.

Vesper: you're right, and I'm not saying we should start getting in everyones faces about it, necessarily. it may seem that way from my post, but like I said, I was particularly frustrated when I wrote it. I think we should simply take steps to raise awareness of transsexuals, maybe point this colour issue out, or...something. hopefully we'll get there.

Emily: that would irritate me too. and my reply to that persons post was this: right, but penis ≠ boy and vagina ≠ girl.


I didn't even notice the gender/name confliction o_o


Flameboy: that is GREAT. all parents should be like that, and Miniar.

wow. the last reply was the worst.

If you can tell me why I should allow someone to decide they "aren't" the gender they were born as, I will allow it. In lack of such an explanation, it's unnecessary, unnatural and should be prohibited.

I do like my reply to him c:

[imaz]

I'd let, and indeed did, let my kids dress as they wish...

Can't stand stereotypical dressing and as an MTF don't feel I have to dress particularly feminine because of it.

[placeholdername]

I see what you're saying, but trans kids are fairly rare; the majority of kids are cis-gendered.  I dressed my kids in gender-specific clothing, though my daughter wore a lot of overalls and solid colors, and we didn't break out the sports motif for my son.  When they were old enough to voice their opinions, I bought them clothes that they wanted, and that was that.

It would be nice if nobody were born trans, or that those of us who are came with a label slapped on our foreheads to clue in our parents, but that's not to be.  There *are* gender differences, which is why we trans-folk have such a hard time being in the wrong body.  If the world were truly gender neutral, would that really matter much?

Jay

Most people are cis-gendered, but most cis-gendered people still don't fit into the stereotypical slots of 'boy' and 'girl'.  This is why dressing babies in blue vs pink *and all the stuff associated with that* is not just about whether kids are trans or not trans -- Anyone who deviates from the m/f binary is subject to criticism, whether they identify in their birth sex or not.  So personally I agree with not doing the blue vs pink thing, because it's making decisions for someone before they're ready for it.

[almost,angie]

 No, I will not! I have two young daughters that dress them selves at this point and they both love prinsess dresses from the disney store. I`m happy to say our photo albums are full of them in dresses and being the girly girls that they have clearly shown me they are. Who the F do you think you are? Don`t tell me what to do.

[placeholdername]

No, I will not! I have two young daughters that dress them selves at this point and they both love prinsess dresses from the disney store. I`m happy to say our photo albums are full of them in dresses and being the girly girls that they have clearly shown me they are. Who the F do you think you are? Don`t tell me what to do.

That's great for you, but your attitude is no more helpful than the one which you are reacting against.

[Luc]

I see absolutely no cause for clothing to be gender-specific, especially in children. When I was a kid, my grandmother, who was born and raised in Germany, would send clothing overseas for my brother and myself. Thanks to her, my little brother, who was in his infancy and toddlerhood at the time, wore more pink, purple, and yellow clothing than most boys are ever allowed to... all because in Europe, at least in the early 90s, color was not related in any way to gender.

My mother put me in dresses from birth, but by age 5 I refused to wear anything even slightly girly. I know some parents think that if they enforce traditional gender roles on their children, through clothing, toys, or otherwise, their children will have a steady grasp on their birth gender. Didn't work for me... instead, it caused endless tumult for my mother until she realized it might just be easier to let me choose my own clothing.

My children will be dressed in gender-neutral clothing until they're of age to choose their own style. I see no reason to have it any other way.

SD

[TheBattler]

I must say I can not see the point of trying to change that part of society. While we know gender is not cut and dry for the most part we should be educating society and not try to force our view of the world on them.


Alice

[Chamillion]

maybe I just haven't explained well enough. let me try again.

I'll put it this way...

if people dropped the pink and blue, dresses and "boy clothes" (with all kinds of sports motifs etc), and dressed all of their children neutral, it would have to mean that they have all learned/accepted that things (gender, at least) aren't always what they appear. it would mean that people (in cultures where it is an issue) have accepted transsexuality as a part of reality. you don't think that would be a good thing?

another thing is, I'm pre-T. after I fully transition, what if I wanted to show someone pictures of me as a baby/toddler, or someone happens upon them? I'd have to explain, because the person would probably be thinking wtf, why did his mom dress her little boy like a girl? this would not be an issue if we all dressed children in neutral clothing, until they are old enough to decide what gender they are/what they like to wear.

I think it would be nice if I had some pictures of me as a child in which I'm not in stereotypical girl clothes and haircuts. it makes me sad to look at them, that I was assumed to be a girl and raised and dressed as one. it doesn't SEEM to be a big deal, and no, it didn't really hurt me, and it's not that I'm so bothered that I was adorned in pink as a baby. I had no idea. no, it didn't hurt me, it couldn't have, and I can dress as I please now (ironically, I like to crossdress) but this is NOT THE POINT! the thing that bothers me is IGNORANCE and DISREGARD of transsexuality! do you see what I mean now? and do you still disagree?

I understand what you're saying and I do agree that it would be nice if everything was just gender neutral. do I wish that blue and pink were just colours and not associated with girls or boys? yeah of course I do. but that's not how it is and I don't think parents should be at fault for this

[placeholdername]

we should be educating society and not try to force our view of the world on them.

The only difference between those two things is how nice you are about it.

I understand what you're saying and I do agree that it would be nice if everything was just gender neutral. do I wish that blue and pink were just colours and not associated with girls or boys? yeah of course I do. but that's not how it is and I don't think parents should be at fault for this

Fault is a useless word.  I don't care who is at fault, but if we understand the cause of something and know that that something is detrimental, then we should do something to change it.

[sneakersjay]

"Boy=Penis
Girl=Vagina."

Actually it should be Boy=Penis, Girl=Vulva

Vulva is the external female genitalia.  Now we can go back to debating why that ain't necessarily so!  Carry on!


Jay, terminology police

[myles]

My 5  (well when he was 5) year old sons favorite color was pink for a while about a year. I don't think you can ban colors because what if your kid just like them. I guess when they are younger you can dress them the way you like, my son came home at 3 with his opinions and was willing to tell us or at least pick his own stuff. My other son just happens to have blue as a favorite color not sure why, the others morphed from pink to red, I think because of peer pressure at the end of his kindergarten year. He even had a powerpuff girls backpack.
Myles