Quote from: Venus on April 23, 2009, 07:10:16 AM
I definitely think she should pick what her kids call her NOT her ex.
We are definitely in agreement here.
Quote from: Venus on April 23, 2009, 07:10:16 AM
So if I can teach my children at age 3 not to steal why can't I teach them not to out a person and not to lie?
Not to be, well whatever it might be, but I don't think it's quite so black and white. Being trans is sort of a before-and-after phenomenon, he was a man, now she's a woman. There aren't a lot of clear cut rules about this is how you automatically must address this person. As an example, look at any legal proceeding involving a trans person. Look at the murder trial of Angie Zapata-- the prosecution consistently referred to Angie as she and her, in accordance with Angie's self-identification. The defense, in trying to justify their trans-panic defense referred to Angie by her male name, and used male pronouns throughout the entire trial.
I don't think you're encouraging your children to lie. Whether they call her Daddy or Mommy or Bubbe, some of it is part of the way she was always known by the children. If she's been Dad for 15 years of a 16 year old's life, you might not get much traction changing from Dad to Mom. For the baby, who's always known her as a woman, well, she's Mom. It's not lying. Some of the word implies the relationship that the child has with that person. That can change from child to child and as time progresses. Some of these things are malleable, and what you decide today could be different in five or ten years' time.
Quote from: Venus on April 23, 2009, 07:10:16 AM
...you will NEVER pass as long as the little one calls you 'daddy'... For the past 10 years I have been the one to challenge sterotypes and tell people not to sterotype and I just realize a few weeks ago that I truely believe something that I taught my children years ago "Not every man is a 'daddy' but every 'daddy' is a man" -so am I just teaching the English language or am I sterotyping and disrespecting my partner?
I don't think you're stereotyping. The disrespect part I can't answer. It really depends on what your partner wants to be called. Part of the problem is that we live in a society where the gender binary is VERY strictly enforced. Deviation from the societally accepted norm is not tolerated. There are no words for a trans parent, other than to transition from calling Daddy Mommy.
As Janet said, she's Dad to her kids. Janet may not care about being outed in public, or whatever. I guess what I've been trying to say all along is that it sounds like your partner might be putting a little too much emphasis on what others think. Passing is important, but it isn't everything.
Let me be very clear because I don't want you to misunderstand me. I'm not trying to belittle anyone's choices or opinions about how important passing may or may not be. I'm not trying to belittle your partner's choices (or yours) or what you both want. The thing is, kids sort of change the game in unpredictable, and sometimes unavoidable, ways. It might come out that your partner won't be able to pass perfectly when the kids are around. Maybe everyone needs to think about what that life would be like, and whether they'd be willing to live it. Life is messy, and sometimes you just have to deal with it. For trans people and their partners, this involves settling on names, pronouns and what the kids call you, both in private and public.
Quote from: Venus on April 23, 2009, 07:10:16 AM
She has no problems with me calling her mommy in fact I started to because it was her idea. So why do I feel so guilty for calling her these names that she has wished she could have been called all her life... girlfriend, lady, daughter, mother, wife, sister, aunt, grandma, niece, mam, Ms. ...
because society says she is not a woman and never can be, because her ex refuses to admit she is a woman even though she knew before they started dating, because other people call her he and man even if I correct them, because other people say I should be, because I am afraid of this issue stressing me out for the next 50 years it is NEVER going to go away so I am trying to find a way to accept it and I can't. (or at least not yet)
First, I think you're getting trapped in essentialist ideas. A male is not always a man. The point being that sex =/= gender. Society expects that sex and gender are interchangeable, which is why many official forms use one term or the other. How many times have you seen gender with the words male and female? Technically speaking, sex is biological, gender is psychological, and partly social. Our concept of gender, if you buy into post-modern deconstructionist ideas, is a construct of society. There is nothing 'real' about it, except for the fact that we make it real, and continue to perpetuate ideas like girls are bad at math and boys are aggressive.
As your partner transitions, she will be (or already is) a woman, and a female. She can get her birth certificate amended/changed/re-issued and get all of her legal documents changed. She won't be able to conceive and bear children, but there are loads of cis-sexual women with that problem, too.
As for the ex and other people being obstinate about using male pronouns: I consider that just to be rude. It's like if I introduce myself to you as Jessica but you insist on calling me Kate. My name isn't Kate, and it's not okay for you to call me Kate. I might be forgiving if you forgot my name, or got me confused with a Kate who looks like me, but if you persisted even after I corrected you, I'd probably not associate with you any more.
So that's an option-- limit your contact with people who stress you out. My family isn't very accepting of me (and my wife's mother isn't, either). My solution is to avoid those people as much as possible and spend time with people who accept me for who I am. Because of the kids, and the ex, you won't really be able to employ this strategy with her. Permit me to analyze a bit: the ex is probably trying to reinforce her control over the kids, over the custody arrangement, and over your partner by using pronouns and a name that your partner left behind. It seems like she's trying to impose order and control in a situation where she might be feeling threatened or embarassed-- the meme of 'my girlfriend left me to be with another woman' is used to bring the great masucline man down a notch or two. Maybe the ex feels sort of like that: "my husband left me, became a woman, and is now in a lesbian relationship." She needs to get over it, but unless she sees a therapist or something, she may not have an outlet to explore that particular feeling, and the stress it causes her.
To wrap up my novel, I want to look at your stress, and whether it will go away. First, every relationship has stress. When I first started transition, my wife would get emotional and cry around friends and others who had 'normal' relationships. What I tried to point out is that even those relationships weren't perfect. Everyone has their share of things to work out. You might never have your stress about your partner's trans status disappear, but the thing to examine is that if you love each other, isn't it worth it? Life is hard enough, and finding a good partner is hard enough, without having to worry whether they're the right sex or gender or whatever.
You might want to consider some therapy or counseling. Having someone to talk to about some of these issues is helpful, and I'm sure that a qualified professional might be better at helping all of you work through some of the problems you're having. (We seem to be very big on therapy and counseling here. I think some of us might even be addicted to it.
)
@ Janet (an afterthought since I referred back to your post a few times):
Damn girl! Your new pic looks goo-ood! I swear you're getting prettier every time you post a new picture.
