Wealthy non-ops

[xsocialworker]

Of the three people I started with, one stated that when she transitioned in an incredibly conservative time and place, her wife stood by her through everything. Not having surgery was in respect for support in every way. Besides, they probably like the intimacy as it was. Two and three I think consider GRS a desecration of the body and a cop-out to the Gender Police. Also, at least one identifies as a two-spirited person. Every person has their own reason for doing what they did in life. I had GRS mostly for legality issues and in conformity to what I feared was a coming Bush theocracy. I felt I better get my ducks in a row as they say.

[ArleneTgirl]

Which is why I qualified the statement, that we as part of the trans community.....I'm not naive enough to believe that society on the whole, nor did I imply that.  Incidentally, I love Buddy Holly.

[tekla]

conformity to what I feared was a coming Bush theocracy. I felt I better get my ducks in a row as they say.

Wow, not much faith in America eh?  When we get it wrong, we get it so wrong - its right (or at least, right-wing), but we do try to make it better, as opposed to nations and cultures that just change the history books to conform to the new reality.

[Just Kate]

The OP suggested that these folks didn't want or didn't intend to have grs.  There is a difference between not wanting and not able to have grs.  And for those who think that genitals don't not make you an man or a woman, I would challenge you to stand naked in a changing room of those who you identify with and ask them what they think.  Oh yes I forgot "It's not what others think, it's what I think", ya right.  Stop kidding yourselves, if you want to keep your male organs then you are obviously not TS, you are something else.

All this baloney about "I can't have GRS because - I'm poor, I have a medical condition, I have a family, I want and education, blah blah blah, is a bunch of nonsense.  Get real, if you are TS you will do it.

If you need to make excuses to validate who you are then who are not who you think you are.

-={LR}=-

I swear I cannot go a week on this forum without someone telling me I'm not transsexual.

To the OP - I think the fact they have money and haven't spent it on surgery shows their priorities for this moment are not for SRS, however, because we are not aware of their other priorities to make a comparison, there isn't much that CAN be said about them.

[finewine]

The diagnosis of gender dysphoria is not predicated on ones genital anatomy.  Indeed, the entire point of such a diagnosis together with formal gender recognition that goes with it (in some locations) is precisely because of the historical singleminded assumption that ones anatomical gender is all there is to it.

My gf is a MtF who describes herself (currently) as "non-op".  She looks like a girl, she psychologically identifies as a girl and, compared to all the cisgendered females I've dated previously, outwardly act and behaves just like a girl too.  Even though I cannot verify her subjective experience, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that she is truly gender dysphoric.

To suggest that transsexuality is only truly defined by the physical transformation of genital anatomy is something I cannot agree with.  One is transsexual if one endeavours to live in the social, not anatomical, role of the gender with which one identifies.

[ArleneTgirl]

The diagnosis of gender dysphoria is not predicated on ones genital anatomy.  Indeed, the entire point of such a diagnosis together with formal gender recognition that goes with it (in some locations) is precisely because of the historical singleminded assumption that ones anatomical gender is all there is to it.

My gf is a MtF who describes herself (currently) as "non-op".  She looks like a girl, she psychologically identifies as a girl and, compared to all the cisgendered females I've dated previously, outwardly act and behaves just like a girl too.  Even though I cannot verify her subjective experience, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that she is truly gender dysphoric.

To suggest that transsexuality is only truly defined by the physical transformation of genital anatomy is something I cannot agree with.  One is transsexual if one endeavours to live in the social, not anatomical, role of the gender with which one identifies.

Your girlfriend is a very lucky girl.  Well said.

[Steph]

The diagnosis of gender dysphoria is not predicated on ones genital anatomy.  Indeed, the entire point of such a diagnosis together with formal gender recognition that goes with it (in some locations) is precisely because of the historical singleminded assumption that ones anatomical gender is all there is to it.

My gf is a MtF who describes herself (currently) as "non-op".  She looks like a girl, she psychologically identifies as a girl and, compared to all the cisgendered females I've dated previously, outwardly act and behaves just like a girl too.  Even though I cannot verify her subjective experience, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that she is truly gender dysphoric.

To suggest that transsexuality is only truly defined by the physical transformation of genital anatomy is something I cannot agree with.  One is transsexual if one endeavours to live in the social, not anatomical, role of the gender with which one identifies.

And I would agree  - in a perfect world, butcha know, it's not a perfect world and some day down the line the thing between your gf's legs will most definitely become an issue for someone.

-={LR}=-

[Buffy]

Frankly my dear I don't give a damn (hey that would make a great line in a film)

Its their life, their money and their choice and they get my respect for that.

Buffy

[finewine]

And I would agree  - in a perfect world, butcha know, it's not a perfect world and some day down the line the thing between your gf's legs will most definitely become an issue for someone.

-={LR}=-

LOL, yeah but really...who that really matters? 

She's happy & I'm happy.  Nobody else sees her as anything but a girl, unless they rummage in her underwear which is, currently at least, my exclusive privilege!

That said, I don't mean to dismiss your point at all, LR.  Social stigmas do exist and I don't deny it would cause me career and social problems if her birth gender was disclosed to all and sundry.  When I say it doesn't matter, I mean that as a point of philosophy - should her birth gender be "outed", we'll take it on the chin and move on.

[DarkLady]

It is nice that she can be happy without SRS.

[Virginia87106]

Ladyrider has an agenda and gets off on the power of judging others.  Just ignore her comments.

The shape of my genitalia has nothing to do with my gender.

[Lori]

Labels are for soup cans.

Who cares who does what with what?

Some are scared about having to do dilation the rest of their lives. Some don't care. Some would rather spend the money on something else. Why can't we just all get along and accept each other as a whole and recognize that they are different and may not think the same way you do?

Just because you are TS does that mean you have to do certain things? Is it so strictly defined that once you skip a step you have to relabel yourself so as not to confuse others?

If you lived as a man and now live as a woman or vice versa I'd say you are T  S/V/G or something. But I don't care what the second part is. Nobody should but that individual themselves. Its a private matter. Literally.

I don't care what the DSM says. I strongly feel my GID problem is NOT a mental problem and should not be in that head shrink book to begin with. So however they want to define it is wrong too. I feel they are wrong about everything. They only person that can possibly hope to understand somebody that has GID, is another person that has it. It doesn't mean because we have this curse we automatically are all the same and fall in the same positions and ideas and are expected to do the same things.

It was good to see the French kicked the transgender out of their psych book. GID is not a mental problem so why the hell are you all arguing about the labels they stick to a wrong diagnosis to begin with?

Money, DSM, and labels be damned, we are all unique.

[Steph]

Ladyrider has an agenda and gets off on the power of judging others.  Just ignore her comments.

The shape of my genitalia has nothing to do with my gender.

Nope fraid not.  Believe me I have more important things to do than worry about an agenda, I just like to deal with the reality of life and not philosophize about the way things should be.  And no I don't get off on power for I have none, but I do get off on good old raunchy sex.

As for the shape of your genitalia, well of course that's a personal thing and as long as you're content then who cares.  As long as you are happy sweetpea the rest of the world matters not.

-={LR}=-

[tekla]

Believe me I have more important things to do than worry about an agenda

That is either: a) a bald face lie, or b) an incredible statement of intellectual laziness.

All humans have a subjective set of standards, beliefs, and values that guide what they think and the way they process information.  Those standards, beliefs, and values shape the notions that they support or oppose.  There is no such thing as total objectivity all the time, particularly when dealing with interpersonal matters.

To say: I just like to deal with the reality of life and not philosophize, is merely saying, I can't be bothered to think.

[fae_reborn]

She's happy & I'm happy.  Nobody else sees her as anything but a girl, unless they rummage in her underwear which is, currently at least, my exclusive privilege!

That said, I don't mean to dismiss your point at all, LR.  Social stigmas do exist and I don't deny it would cause me career and social problems if her birth gender was disclosed to all and sundry.  When I say it doesn't matter, I mean that as a point of philosophy - should her birth gender be "outed", we'll take it on the chin and move on.

I agree with Arlene, she's lucky to have you as a partner.  If the rest of society were as accepting as you are, we as a community would be in a much better place.

Some are scared about having to do dilation the rest of their lives. Some don't care. Some would rather spend the money on something else. Why can't we just all get along and accept each other as a whole and recognize that they are different and may not think the same way you do?

Here here! 

As for the shape of your genitalia, well of course that's a personal thing and as long as you're content then who cares.  As long as you are happy sweetpea the rest of the world matters not.

Then why does it seem you are so adamant about defining what does and does not make a transsexual?  Correct me if I am wrong, but throughout this whole thread it seems (to me anyway) that you have been holding a grudge against those who have money for SRS, but choose to forgo surgery in favor of other priorities, when you don't even know the other aspects/goals/dreams/desires of the rest of their lives?  Are you not judging those individuals (and by proxy) judging any of us who choose not to have surgery?

[lisagurl]

I can't be bothered to think.

Sometimes it shows.

[tekla]

Sometimes it shows.

I think so.

[Shana A]

I am proud of the choices I have made in my life. They were/are right for one person, me. No one else. I respect and honor other people's choices to do whatever feels right for them. What I don't respect is hearing people in our community dissing other people's identity, because it doesn't fit their belief of what trans-anything might be.

Some people have said in this thread how it isn't a perfect world, so we have ot accept the way it is. My approach is that I'm doing all I can to leave this world a slightly better place than it was when I was born into this body, especially in regard to making it a safer place for all people to be/express any gender or identity.

Z

[Steph]

Believe me I have more important things to do than worry about an agenda

That is either: a) a bald face lie, or b) an incredible statement of intellectual laziness.

All humans have a subjective set of standards, beliefs, and values that guide what they think and the way they process information.  Those standards, beliefs, and values shape the notions that they support or oppose.  There is no such thing as total objectivity all the time, particularly when dealing with interpersonal matters.

To say: I just like to deal with the reality of life and not philosophize, is merely saying, I can't be bothered to think.

And there you have it...  So I guess that would make me a lying, non thinking, intellectually lazy so and so.  Thanks for pointing that out for me Tekla, I've often wondered what the heck was wrong with me.  See you were right... My not bothering to get an education will be the bane of my existence for sure.  What would I have done without your council.

Nah! that's all such nonsense peanut.  I'm happy just muddling along enjoying life to the fullest.

-={LR}=-

[Nicky]

This whole thing would be much easier if we threw out the word transsexual wouldn't it? Having it just seems to make things harder.

All I can see is an argument about the meaning of the word transsexual. It just creates fighting and division because some people want to be distinctive from everyone else and others don't want to be left out. Some people use it to mean what they feel they are and it rubs them the wrong way when people use their identity to mean something else. I hear and awful lot of "They can't be this because I am this and this is the way I feel and they don't feel the same way so you are not allowed to be this". I've probably done it myself.

End of the day we are all just men, or woman, or non-binaries, or -null gendered or a combination of. We know that some women have penises and don't mind it. We know some men have vaginas and don't mind it. Are you more of a woman or man than they are? I doubt it. At the most basic level some can live with their birth genetalia, some can't and get an operation. People are different. Simple isn't it? I don't see what the fuss is about. I really don't think we need to be concerned about what other people have between their legs.