You're an FTM and You're GAY?

[Randy]

If I had a penny for every time someone said that to me... I've liked guys for as long as I've liked anyone. Never had the slightest attraction to a woman to this day (I'm almost seven months on T). It's like Dennis said: If I were doomed to never have a romantic relationship with anyone (which is the way it seems now, but that's another post  ) I am still a male person. Just one who happens to be attracted to other males.

No, I don't think it would have been easier to stay as a "straight female". I was far too fabulous to keep up that ruse a second longer! In all seriousness, though, my need for transition was not driven by trying to gain more societal acceptance, so moving down the hierarchy from straight female aaaaaaalllll the way down to gay trans-male didn't discourage me from pursuing it. I just wanted to be me, regardless of my attractions; just like you.

Straight FTMs in the minority! That's news to me. In my experience the opposite is almost always true. In fact, my ignorance of the existence of gay ftms probably set my transtition back about eight years...

[Nero]

As a bisexual guy, I have to admit to being somewhat offended by this post and its implications. Mudd, in your other posts, you say you are fully transitioned and have been for many years. In light of that, I would assume you understood that female-to-male transsexualism is a question of identity and not sexual orientation.

[milliontoone]

I understand not being comfortable in your skin and needing to be the other gender... but wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?

I know it has been said time and ime again but I do find this statement a little flawed.  After all as so many of the other guys have said your gender has nothing to do with who you are sexually attracted to hence why there are heterosexual/ bisexual/ homosexual people in this world.  By your logic if gender dictated your sexuality everyone would be straight since that is what we are "supposed" to be hence this would be what would be easiest.

[Vancha]

I know it has been said time and ime again but I do find this statement a little flawed.  After all as so many of the other guys have said your gender has nothing to do with who you are sexually attracted to hence why there are heterosexual/ bisexual/ homosexual people in this world.  By your logic if gender dictated your sexuality everyone would be straight since that is what we are "supposed" to be hence this would be what would be easiest.

Precisely, and thus there would be no gay men or women, as they would change gender so as to be straight.  There is a multitude of different gender expressions, sexual orientations and the combinations they make, but the most important thing to remember is that we are humans, not robots that can be categorized absolutely.

[Arch]

wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?

NO. I can honestly say that pretending to be a straight female for years and years and years is the hardest thing I have ever done. It's a low-grade hell that just stretches on and on to eternity.

The process of deciding that I needed to transition was an intense but short-lived hell, but it compares with the daily hetero female grind as a quick one-second yank of a Band-aid compares to a year-long Sisyphean unpeeling. My inability to be truly gay caused a constant psychological throbbing that wore me down day by day. I had my survival mechanisms, little ways of dealing with that pain, but the respite was always incomplete and ephemeral.

I transitioned not only so I could be the right gender but so I could have the correct sexual orientation. No regrets so far.

[Vancha]

NO. I can honestly say that pretending to be a straight female for years and years and years is the hardest thing I have ever done. It's a low-grade hell that just stretches on and on to eternity.

The process of deciding that I needed to transition was an intense but short-lived hell, but it compares with the daily hetero female grind as a quick one-second yank of a Band-aid compares to a year-long Sisyphean unpeeling. My inability to be truly gay caused a constant psychological throbbing that wore me down day by day. I had my survival mechanisms, little ways of dealing with that pain, but the respite was always incomplete and ephemeral.

I transitioned not only so I could be the right gender but so I could have the correct sexual orientation. No regrets so far.

I empathize entirely.  I feel the same way about my transition, which is still in waiting.  It is stories like yours that make me hopeful that the daily grind of pretending to be something I'm not will be alleviated with time.

[Miniar]

It's easier to be me, through and through, than to live a lie.

[Nero]

It's easier to be me, through and through, than to live a lie.

Yeah, I mean if a gay dude suddenly woke up a woman one day, he might think it was cool to get more guys and less discrimination for about a minute. But then he would get sick of pretending. As great as sex is and as nice as hetero privilege goes, neither is worth being someone else for the long haul.
Just as straight guy wouldn't transition just for those same gains.

[icontact]

I identify as bisexual, when I was living as a girl, I was a lesbian, but once I transitioned, I found feelings for men appear out of nowhere. Liking men as a girl is a LOT different than liking men as a boy.

[Walter]

but wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?

It's not easier. I've tried forcing myself to live as female a couple times and I'll tell you that it's one of the most awkward feelings ever. It doesn't feel right

I'm gay. Deep down I have an admiration for females but not enough to date them again

Since I'm non-op I've lost hope in ever finding a guy who would be boyfriend material

[Vancha]

I think some of the best boyfriends for FTMs are FTMs ourselves.  I know from experience.  It's just nice to have that level of comfort with someone... 

[Chamillion]

I can't imagine I'm the only straight FTM out there...right? .... tell me some of you still love women....?

Right here 

But seriously, I know it's been said multiple times in this thread, but sexual orientation and gender identity are not the same thing. Just like there are gay bio-men, there are gay FtM's. It does seem like percentage wise there are more gay FtM's than bio guys and I'm somewhat curious as to why that is. I think a lot of it is that we were socialized as female, and females aren't taught to be macho/homophobic like males are. If it weren't for the type of socialization that guys go through, there might be more gay guys. Think of how many guys try to secure their masculinity by being against anything gay, only to come out of the closet a little later on.

Does this make sense? Or am I just making things up? Haha

[Nero]

It does seem like percentage wise there are more gay FtM's than bio guys and I'm somewhat curious as to why that is. I think a lot of it is that we were socialized as female, and females aren't taught to be macho/homophobic like males are.

I think there's something to that. In my case as well, even though I was attracted to girls, I was terrified of them and a lot more comfortable with guys. So maybe some ftms lean towards bi/gay out of a comfort thing.

[Jamie-o]

Well, if 90% of women are attracted to men, it would make sense that there would be a higher percentage of gay FtMs.  Especially now that the only route to information isn't through the lesbian community.  However, as someone else pointed out, I'm finding that outside of Susan's there are a lot more straight FtMs.  Of course, it could just be that in person the straight ones are more vocal.  I was surprised to find that I, myself, was reluctant to correct people and tell them I was gay when they assumed that I liked women.

[Jay]

I can't imagine I'm the only straight FTM out there...right? .... tell me some of you still love women....?

I love women. Men have never interested me. So I guess as female bodied I would have been a lesbian

Not sure about the other guys..

Jay

[Genevieve Swann]

Cindygurl isn't the only one having a blonde moment. You are not gay. You're straight. Guys like woman as a norm. Here's a reality check: Gender and sexual desires or orientation happen to be different parts of the personality. Just decide to be bi and get it over with. That's the good thing about sexual desires, it can change in a moment. After the third drink it may not matter. I'm not that way. Unattractive people either physically or a disgusting personality will be a turn off no matter what the situation or their gender. A person could always be very promiscuous and everyone will like you.

[Mister]

Cindygurl isn't the only one having a blonde moment. You are not gay. You're straight. Guys like woman as a norm. Here's a reality check: Gender and sexual desires or orientation happen to be different parts of the personality. Just decide to be bi and get it over with. That's the good thing about sexual desires, it can change in a moment. After the third drink it may not matter. I'm not that way. Unattractive people either physically or a disgusting personality will be a turn off no matter what the situation or their gender. A person could always be very promiscuous and everyone will like you.

Um, what?  Alcohol will change your sexual preferences and if you drink enough, you can just be a slut with a ton of friends?  Whoa.

[Arch]

Well, if 90% of women are attracted to men, it would make sense that there would be a higher percentage of gay FtMs. 

I had the hardest time figuring this out until it occurred to me that you might be equating FTMs with women...I hope that's not what you're saying. Or do you mean that since FTMs are brought up as women, a lot of them might have received social conditioning to prefer men? But that would have to work against a lot of FTMs' inherent preferences, yes?

[Jamie-o]

I had the hardest time figuring this out until it occurred to me that you might be equating FTMs with women...I hope that's not what you're saying. Or do you mean that since FTMs are brought up as women, a lot of them might have received social conditioning to prefer men? But that would have to work against a lot of FTMs' inherent preferences, yes?

I'm saying that we are biologically women, (or female-bodied, at any rate) and that transness isn't the same thing as gayness, so if 90% of people born in female bodies are attracted to men, then it makes sense that a large percentage of FtMs would also be attracted to men.  Did that make sense?    I'm making the assumption that homosexuality and transsexuality are different biological traits that may or may not happen concurrently.

I think that for a long time a majority of gay FtMs didn't transition because, A) They didn't have access to the information they needed and B) There was an assumption that in order to be trans one had to be attracted to one's birth sex, so they either talked themselves out of it, or were denied access to hormones/surgery/etc.  And I think a lot of gay FtMs still choose not to transition in a large part because they are not willing to cut themselves off from 90% of the male population. 

[Arch]

I'm saying that we are biologically women, (or female-bodied, at any rate) and that transness isn't the same thing as gayness, so if 90% of people born in female bodies are attracted to men, then it makes sense that a large percentage of FtMs would also be attracted to men.  Did that make sense? 

Okay, I get what you're saying, and it brings up intriguing concepts. But first--we may be female-bodied; but when most of us say that, we're sort of operating on a body-mind split theory: the brain is largely male but the rest of the body is female.

So, let's see. What if sexual orientation is wired into the fetal brain or begins to be wired into the fetal brain at an absurdly early age, right around the time that the FTM fetal brain gets that infusion of T that some scientists theorize about? That's really what you're proposing, isn't it?

So in those infants whose trans-ness was caused (all or mostly) by fetal hormones, maybe some babies would get that infusion before orientation is forming, some during, and some after.

This is assuming, among other things, that sexual attraction is mostly innate and mostly fixed. I don't actually know anything about what I'm talking about. I'm just tossing ideas around.

I should point out that the vast majority of FTMs that I have met in person are attracted to females. A number of those guys are attracted to men in addition to women. Except online, I haven't run into many FTMs who are exclusively attracted to men. So based on my own small sample size, I would guess that either it just seems like lots of guys at Susan's are gay, or social and psychological factors cause gay FTMs to flock here and keep flocking here.

Well, there's one other thing I've noticed. The younger generation seems to have much more fluid perceptions of both gender and sex than my generation did. If younger people are more likely to go online, then there might be more bi and pan people here than in the general population of FTMs. But I don't know about gay FTMs.