Extremely new FtM, hoping to make some awesome friends here

[miniangel]

Thanks SilverFang, I totally appreciate that.

For those of you discussing the Norah Vincent book, it sounds like there's varied opinion on its quality. Now in my opinion, some books are really bad, but worth reading because of the viewpoint they can offer or whatnot... Would you guys say this book is worth checking out (for someone like me, who knows nothing about academic gender studies, or even very much at all about non-academic gender issues either), or should I avoid it at all costs?

I wouldn't pay money for it but it's worth getting out of a library. It's not an academic work. She is a journalist who disguised herself as a man in order to check out the differences which the two genders (just a nice binary world in this book  ) experience. Some of her observations are pretty good, some are pretty hackneyed, but her tips for passing might be of use.

[Arch]

Its best to avoid all academic works on gender at all costs.  Matter of fact, its a pretty good rule of thumb to avoid all academic books in almost all cases. 

If you like and respect the English language and if you have a penchant for clarity, yes, by all means avoid academic writing. Well, some academic writers are quite clear and say what they mean without resorting to jargonistic (I know that's not a word) absurdities, but a lot don't. And some academic writers actually have something useful to say. But sorting out the ones who do from the ones who don't...not fun for most people. Fortunately, the stuff that I do is not really theory-driven; it's historically-driven. And much of what I read is science writing from the Victorian period and the current period. I'll take that over Derrida or Butler any day.

Regarding Vincent's book, I don't deny that it has its attractions, especially for the lay reader. I don't remember now what all my objections were, but in no particular order:

She doesn't seem to have studied her subject matter before starting her little experiment. The problem with this is at least twofold. One is, she looks very ignorant. For Pete's sake, know what you're getting into. Learn about the population you are studying, and know what other people have said on the subject, lest you look like an ignoramus to your readers--and lest you simply reproduce what others have said. I mean, I had an acquaintance who professed to be a fan of science fiction and who wanted to publish the stuff that he wrote. But he never studied the market or read what other authors had written. Is this smart? And (back to Vincent), other people (yes, some of them academics, but some not) actually HAVE stated Vincent's thesis before. She writes as if she discovered all of this stuff all by her lonesome, which makes the tone of her book very irritating for me.

I also think that she had the opportunity to bring the man problem and the woman problem together for casual readers...she doesn't seem to have made certain connections that I thought were inevitable. She doesn't answer certain questions that I think she could have--and should have--answered.

Some of her experiences were interesting, but the populations, the groups that she immersed herself in, were a little on the fringe. It would have been nice if she had been able to penetrate the middle classes; her view winds up being a bit skewed because the groups were marginal, mostly in terms of social class. And, well, now that I think about it, race as well. And probably sexual orientation, too, hmm.

Her writing was at times irritating, but then I often find that popular writing irritates me.

Overall, the book seemed much too shallow, given the hype. She made an attempt at the end to do some analysis, but it was too little, too late.

I know that there were a few other things that bugged me, but I can't remember them offhand.

It's worth checking out of the library, certainly. Then if you hate it, don't finish it.

[tekla]

Well, some academic writers are quite clear and say what they mean without resorting to jargonistic (I know that's not a word)
And thank you for proving my point.  And your PhD is from where?  Oh, yeah, abd eh? Good luck on that.

And some academic writers actually have something useful to say.
And when you're one, you can say that, until then, STFU and finish your dissertation.

She doesn't seem to have studied her subject matter before starting her little experiment
She didn't have to, she a journalist, not an academic.

One is, she looks very ignorant.
And now, how many years have you spent on your dissertation, without finishing it, much less getting it published?  Ohh, harsh words from you eh?

Learn about the population you are studying, and know what other people have said on the subject, lest you look like an ignoramus to your readers-
Oh come on and share with us, who have paid for it at the very least, your best academic writing.  Do it now.

and lest you simply reproduce what others have said
Oh yeah, in academia, we call that 'the thesis sentence' and your is?....

I mean really, for all your years in higher ed, what exactly have you discovered that is 'a unique contribution to knowledge?'  Yeah, thought so.

But he never studied the market or read what other authors had written
And the market for the last X number of years of your life is?.....

I often find that popular writing irritates me
Because they finished it and got it published, or because real people actually read it.  Don't bother to respond.

Then if you hate it, don't finish it
And the reason that you have not finished the dissertation in all the time given to you is....

[Mister]

The Norah Vincent book is garbage.  She does nothing but talk about how horribly uncomfortable she is, how terrified she is she'll be found out by these horrible creatures called men, and then all of a sudden, she realizes they are humans and she takes off the drab.

there.  now you don't have to read the book.

[NicholeW.]

...

and lest you simply reproduce what others have said
Oh yeah, in academia, we call that 'the thesis sentence' and your is?....

I mean really, for all your years in higher ed, what exactly have you discovered that is 'a unique contribution to knowledge?'  Yeah, thought so.

I worked with a Brit intelligence officer when I was in Berlin a lifetime ago. One of his pithy sayings was "There is not a subject too dry or over-written or too miniscule so as to be of no importance whatsoever, but some three American graduate students aren't working on three dissertations on it as I speak."

After more than a few years in academe and having been required to read more than a few of those writings that have been "of no importance whatesoever," I have found John to have been spot-on.

Yes, yes, someone follows the APA style manual, Chicago Manual of Style or the MLA style guide uses a dictionary and thesaurus and has memorized Harbrace and after all of that manages to write something of no importance whatesoever to anyone not themselves. I would imagine that even their committees aren't interested in actually what is there.

No. There are decidedly no new dissertations under the sun in USA graduate schools. The very rules of procedure demand that there not be.

Those who do manage to write well and interestingly about topics that seem worthy of being topics do, indeed, seem to be people of the order of Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. Conspicuous he by the absence of alphabet soup after his name.

Certainly that part of the post was true, tekla. Although the cloth it was wrapped in may have been worn canvas rather than sheerest silk.

[tekla]

Hey, at least canvas protects from the elements if you pitch it right, granted silk feels ever so nice next to the special bits, but it just can't stop the rain.

[NicholeW.]

Hey, at least canvas protects from the elements if you pitch it right, granted silk feels ever so nice next to the special bits, but it just can't stop the rain.

O, I do so love you!! No one around here does "cute" as well as thee, good Kat!  

[tekla]

Honey, I'm more than willing to settle for cute, if you get to make that decision.  I do try for more, but what the hell.

[NicholeW.]

Honey, I'm more than willing to settle for cute, if you get to make that decision.  I do try for more, but what the hell.

I've seen your piccie. Be satisfied with "cute," "intelligent" and "enjoyable to chat with." OK?

[tekla]

I guess I got to live with that then.  Darn.  I was hoping to start a new religion.  Seems like we have lots of true believers around here, and I sure could use a Jimmy Swaggert house, ya' know?

[NicholeW.]

I guess I got to live with that then.  Darn.  I was hoping to start a new religion.  Seems like we have lots of true believers around here, and I sure could use a Jimmy Swaggert house, ya' know?

I could see you pulling a Jimmy and hooking the rubes in order that they support you royally for the rest of your life.

And I could see you not having the qualms Jimmy apparently had about his own seeming hypocrisy. Kat would do the deed and say, "Of course I did, get over it and send me more money for these prayer hankies!"

And you'd already know how to rig up the stage for the best possible sound and light effects!

You're in, small god!

[tekla]

And, as my first act as a small god, I would like to remind everyone that here at Susan's we stick strictly to the topic.

What?

Giraffes?  Ear wax?  Latex gloves.

Ok, stay on topic.

I'm outta here.

[Jamie-o]

Thanks SilverFang, I totally appreciate that.

For those of you discussing the Norah Vincent book, it sounds like there's varied opinion on its quality. Now in my opinion, some books are really bad, but worth reading because of the viewpoint they can offer or whatnot... Would you guys say this book is worth checking out (for someone like me, who knows nothing about academic gender studies, or even very much at all about non-academic gender issues either), or should I avoid it at all costs?

Sorry to have derailed your topic, Braedon.  I didn't realise the question would spark such controversy.    In answer to your question, like I said, I never finished the book, and I don't remember why I stopped reading it.  As I recall I was in the middle of selling my condo, and life just got in the way.  I seem to remember enjoying what I read of it, but it was a few years ago, so don't hold me to that opinion.  Anyway, I imagine checking it out at the library would be a safe enough course.    I would, however, highly recommend Jameson Green's Becoming a Visible Man.

[GamerJames]

Sorry to have derailed your topic, Braedon.  I didn't realise the question would spark such controversy.    In answer to your question, like I said, I never finished the book, and I don't remember why I stopped reading it.  As I recall I was in the middle of selling my condo, and life just got in the way.  I seem to remember enjoying what I read of it, but it was a few years ago, so don't hold me to that opinion.  Anyway, I imagine checking it out at the library would be a safe enough course.    I would, however, highly recommend Jameson Green's Becoming a Visible Man.

No worries, I asked about the book, so I'm the one who kinda thread-jacked my own thread... lol


Also, NEWS!! I got approved for a binder through the Big-Brother Used Binder program! I'm so excited it's not even funny. I can't WAIT to get it, as the tensor bandage method is *seriously* getting on my nerves. The past few days I've just been using a tight sports bra with a control-top-nylon binder safety pinned to it (to keep from rolling), but it doesn't flatten very well, and is still uncomfortable at best.

If any of you can't afford a binder (for legitimate reasons, not just because you don't want to spend the money), you should check out the BBUB at The Transitional Male. Should be pretty googleable. Also, the dude who runs the program seems like a nice guy with a big heart who sincerely wants to help us broke-ass FTMs out.

[Calistine]

Hi, Im new too. I dont really pass much but I don't feel the need to because its who I am. Keep staying true to yourself and never let anyone tell you who you are.

And everyones talkin about the nes...I wish I didnt sell mine, ah well.

[myles]

Breadon I am not sure what size a binder you wear but I am going to be getting rid of mine in three weeks. I have  2 tritops size Medium. The white  one is a bit trashed but still usable and the black one has not been used much a all (so still pretty hard to get on).
PM me if you are interested and I can send them to you.
Cheers,
Myles

[CodyJess]

Having just recently bound for the first time at work this week, I can share in your elation. It's so nice, to be able to lift and move things and lean against stuff without worrying about a couple'a lumps getting in your way

Binders make everything better! Ha ha.

[Arch]

Great avatar pic, Braedon.

[GamerJames]

Hi, Im new too. I dont really pass much but I don't feel the need to because its who I am. Keep staying true to yourself and never let anyone tell you who you are.

And everyones talkin about the nes...I wish I didnt sell mine, ah well.

That's awesome that you feel comfortable enough to not worry about passing or not. I wish I had that kind of chutzpah, but my insecurities are unfortunately running this show. lol

As for the NES, I play mine on a regular basis. I also play my SNES and Wii all the time. The N64, and GameCube less so, but still from time to time when I have a hankerin'...

Breadon I am not sure what size a binder you wear but I am going to be getting rid of mine in three weeks. I have  2 tritops size Medium. The white  one is a bit trashed but still usable and the black one has not been used much a all (so still pretty hard to get on).
PM me if you are interested and I can send them to you.
Cheers,
Myles

Myles, you are a God among men. I've PM'd you. Let me shower you with some more gratitude:    and

Having just recently bound for the first time at work this week, I can share in your elation. It's so nice, to be able to lift and move things and lean against stuff without worrying about a couple'a lumps getting in your way

Binders make everything better! Ha ha.

I know, hey? Like, why didn't (the proverbial) "they" tell me it was so much better without fat-sacks in the way?!? And speaking of "why didn't 'they' tell me..." how about boxer briefs? Could they *be* any more comfy? I sure don't think so...

Great avatar pic, Braedon.

Thanks Arch, I took it with my webcam at work this morning. I wanted to show my friends and family that it didn't *have* to be just a fauxhawk, and then it turned out to be a pretty okay pic so I stuck it here too. Btw, I haven't forgotten about responding to you, I've just been up to my eyeballs in "life" so to speak. lol



So, I came out to my mom last night... And wow. My mom's a pretty awesome lady, so I kinda knew she'd love me for me and be accepting of whatever will make me happy, but *holy crap* was she ever supportive. She basically guessed it outright. She was saying how much different my hair made me look and how it somehow made me look so much happier, to which I replied "I feel so much happier, I just feel more like 'myself' these days". She looked at me and said, "so you're feeling more like yourself these days?" and I started out "well, you know how I've always been 'one of the guys'..." and she cut me off and said "you're going to be a guy, aren't you?" and when I barely got out a "well, yeah..." she said "Chaz Bono just came out as a man, and you know, it totally makes sense that you are too. In fact, that really *really* makes sense" with this look of dawning understanding crossing her face.

We kept talking about it, and I told her all of those little childhood memories, my teenage need for social acceptance which presented as "trying to be a girl", my adult relief at coming out as gay so that I could at least be with people I'm attracted to emotionally and physically, and then my frustration that even though being gay was better than being straight, I still didn't feel like a girl/woman, but I knew that nobody saw me as I saw myself, as a guy. I told her about how when my friend Josh came out as trans my absolutely first thought was "awesome, he's gonna be one of us guys now" to which I realized "... oh wait, *I'm* not 'one of us guys'..." And how that made me depressed and start to look for answers (which lead me here). I basically told her everything that I've told you all here, and she took everything not only in stride, but it seemed that she just totally "got" it. Telling her that I'm male was basically like telling someone that the sunglasses they're looking for are right on their head, it was that instant recognition of "ooooh yeah! geez, why didn't I think of looking there!"

Anyhow, it was an incredible night, and I have pretty much the best mom anyone could ever have. Also, she said "do I get to help pick your new name, since the one I picked for you won't be getting used anymore?" lol. We talked about what name she would choose, and I actually really like it: James. My partner still likes Braedon better (which I've got to admit, I *really* like that name), but when it comes down to it, my mom gave me my birth name, and it makes total sense for her to give me the name that I *would've* gotten if I hadn't been born with this "birth defect" as many of you describe it (which actually makes lots of sense).

So, I'm rambling again (like always, duh) so I'll shut up for now. Thanks again everyone for the awesome replies, and for putting up with all my babble!

[Arch]

Your mother sounds like a wonderfully insightful person. Either that, or you're just very obvious...

I'm glad she's being supportive. If I came out to my mother, she would probably cut me off for life--if I hadn't cut her off first, that is. (At least my brother is being pretty cool about it. It must be kind of weird to have a long-lost "sister" suddenly pop up after twenty years and come out as a gay transman.)

By the way, you could use either James or Braedon as a middle name. Or even a last name.