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Doubting my own masculinity

Started by Vancha, July 14, 2009, 04:32:36 AM

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Vancha

This is going to be one big ramble.  I apologize in advance if I bore people with this post.  It's basically useless... But maybe some of you feel the same.

Although I have not been clinically diagnosed with GID, I am with a psychologist who has seen many transgendered people but is not able to diagnose.  I do fit the protocol, at least the great majority of it... I feel no doubt that I want to transition as soon as possible, and that I will have no regrets whether it goes the way I want it to or whether there are some less than desirable effects.

I feel no need to hesitate, but sometimes I worry whether my lack of hesitation, and my lack of indecision about moving forward (and my insistence on physical transition) is somehow... Making me less transgendered?  Does that make sense?  I am worried not about what will happen if I do act fast, but instead... What it infers.  But that's a separate issue.

I hate every inch of femininity in me.  I guess that is to be expected.  I hate the breasts, the hips, the shape in general... The legs, arms... They seem wrong.  Too round, too soft; all feminine, regardless of how strenuously I tried to lose weight or exercise.  I dream endlessly about having or growing a penis.  Usually every week.  It is something I used to wish would happen, feebly when I was a child.  I am disgusted when I have to wear bras, or female underwear.  I just haven't gone and bought male things... I suppose because I feel uncomfortable about doing such a thing when my parents know of it.  That will change, though.

What I am getting at is that although yes, I do fit the so-called "classic" transsexual in many ways, in other ways, I am terrified that I am not masculine enough... Just biologically.  I was recently going through a test to determine the gender of your brain... Although I am in the male spectrum, on some subjects... I am not.  I can apparently understand what emotion people are expressing, although I guessed throughout the whole thing.  I apparently am not good at rotating shapes in my mind.  I'm not an expert with a map, by any means.  I'm great with words, although not with "emotion" words.  I am a writer; can I help that?  And my fingers... My ring finger is shorter than my index, which is typical of genetic, straight females who were not exposed to a lot of testosterone.  Does that mean I wasn't exposed to much testosterone?  Then why do I feel so undeniably male?  Why is my identity male?  Why is my being female so wrong, so stressful for me?  If this is a biological thing, then why is it that my brain doesn't perform in a typically male way?  Why is my index finger larger than my ring?

And my face... Is often annoyingly feminine...

It makes me doubt whether there is anything about me that should be male at all... Whether there is any basis for thinking that I am... I guess this is why many of us look to intersex conditions, hoping we can justify this... That we are meant to be our desired sex, for whatever reason.  I know I have a male identity, and have known that for a long time.  I don't wish to have a feminine male identity.  Nor do I wish to be an extremely masculine man.  But have I known this for as long as I have had an identity?  Most certainly.  I just can't stand looking myself in the mirror and thinking, "That is not a man.  There is no way I can be meant to be one."

Rambling nonsense...
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Nero

QuoteAlthough I have not been clinically diagnosed with GID, I am with a psychologist who has seen many transgendered people but is not able to diagnose.

You mean he told you he can't diagnose you?
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Radar

Well, you are going to have feminine physical characteristics because you're in a female body. I have some masculine physical traits and my index finger is shorter than my ring finger (which is a result of the amount of testosterone you're exposed to in the womb), but I don't have enough to pass for male.

Does that make you less of a man inside? No. There's a difference between sexual gender and gender identification. I know for me starting to wear a binder and just men's underwear helped alot. Also, if you go on T you'll start looking more male, but it takes time. You know who you are inside, you just need to take the steps to have other people see it too. :)

I am curious why your psychologist can't diagnose you with GID. Is it because he's not sure? If he can't/won't diagnose you he won't help you get on T or have surgeries.
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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perfectisolation

Adrian, I have some similar doubts about myself. I have taken that BBC brain gender test twice and scored androgynous the first time and 50% male the second. My brain is more masculine than it is fem or androgynous tho, but I still have some quirks that you might say are feminine. But my dysphoria reminds me how I must have a masculine body because despite my androg/masculine behavior my gender identity is masculine/male...This is just how people are, we aren't all totally fem or masc just shades between. Even the most masculine transman is not 100% masc I bet. Also, the current hormones your brain is soaking in must have an effect too. I have read about guys who have better spatial, math, etc skills after T and I'm sure that stuff effects some of your brain's chemistry. As for me I am terrible at math.

and for the finger ratio, there are women who identify as women with longer ring fingers. probably cause there are supposedly different periods where the developing brain can be exposed to the hormones. In a feminine transguys case it might be that the androgens only surged when his gender identity center was developing and not so much when the other parts of the brain were... Well that's my take. But anyways, your dysphoria and identity tells you who you are, what you must be. Mine is the same, dysphoria about every tiny femininity of my body. This is why we have to transition, or, just live with it.
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Radar

Oh, I also forgot to add that many feminine characteristics are pounded into us by family and society. It can take awhile to unlearn those, even though they've always made me feel uncomfortable and fake.
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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Nero

Another route to take is not focusing on the whole man enough, trans enough thing, and just asking yourself whether you need to live as a guy or not. There's no reliable test yet to determine whether anyone's trans, and therapists can only go with what we tell them.
Imagine there were a test to prove transness, to prove whether you had a man's brain or not. Imagine it says your brain is that of a perfectly normal, healthy female. Would you still need to live as a guy regardless? Would you still see your true identity better expressed through a male body?
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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tekla

With GID I don't think there is a bright line that make it 'you either are or you're not' and if you are, then you must do A, B and C, (and only A, B and C) as a cure.  There are lots of degrees, variations, and paths through that forest.  It's hard finding your way, but it can be done, just realize other people experience and feelings are not yours, and perhaps their path is not your path.

And stop the junk science tests, they don't prove or demonstrate anything at all.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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finewine

Dude, I've done those online gender tests (but only those ones that are used for fun) and I didn't get a 100% masculine score.  I doubt any man would.  Beware of over-compensating and yearning to be "more man than a man", if you know what I mean. Nothing is ironically more revealing than a FTM who tries too hard to out-masculine other men and live some male stereotype.

If you're a guy, then be yourself...and you'll be a guy.  See?  Then it just becomes a matter of congruity with your physical appearance.
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Lachlann

I agree with Finewine, I doubt any man is 100% masculine.

I've also been told there is no real test that can confirm if your brain is masculine or feminine. As for the ring finger thing, bioguys can have it as short as their index finger. It's just one of those things where you either have it or you don't, but it doesn't make you any less of a man. All these things you're listing can happen to biomales and do. It's too varied to get nit picky on that sort of thing.

Guys come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and just because you look feminine now doesn't mean you're less of a man.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
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GamerJames

I definitely have similar doubts myself... But already the teensy tiny steps I've taken have started to help me to see the guy I know is "in there" a little more clearly. I thought I wasn't masculine enough to "pull off" wearing guy clothes, but last night my gf and I went to a movie and I was bound and wearing guy stuff (well, my pants were bought in the girl section, but they are the most manly girl pants ever, lol) and a baseball cap (cuz I still haven't cut my hair yet - tomorrow or Thursday!) and I felt incredible. My gf kept looking at me like "rawr" and instead of being all "no, no... I'm not attractive" I kept thinking "yeah, I *do* look awfully hot tonight!" ;D

I felt like myself, and I looked like what I feel like. I'm sure I was NOWHERE near passing, but that didn't matter. I felt like a guy, I felt authentic, I felt good about myself. It didn't matter to me at that moment if I was "masculine enough" even though that's all I've been obsessing about these past few days.

So maybe, like Radar suggested, try some initial steps like binding and wearing male clothes, and then you'll *feel* more like the guy you know you are. And then as finewine mentioned, if you feel like a guy, you'll *be* a guy. (Sorry if my paraphrasing changed your intent at all, I hope I kept your meaning in tact).

That being said, I know next to nothing about all of this, so please feel free to ignore me if you disagree. (YMMV and all that...)  :)
♫ Oh give me a home, where the trans people roam, and the queers and the androgynes play... ♫

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gravitysrainbow

Quote from: Nero on July 14, 2009, 08:16:00 AM
Imagine there were a test to prove transness, to prove whether you had a man's brain or not. Imagine it says your brain is that of a perfectly normal, healthy female. Would you still need to live as a guy regardless? Would you still see your true identity better expressed through a male body?

This is exactly what I wanted to say right after I read your post, Adrian.

Also, I took that BBC test and I don't remember exactly what I got...I think it was androgynous one time, maybe even slightly more female another time. It was disheartening at first, but I know my gender is about more than the relative length of my fingers, or how many synonyms I can think of for the word "happy." A lot of the stuff that the test considered "female" were traits that I value in myself, such as being able to understand what emotion people are feeling. Don't think "is it male?" Think "Am I glad that I have this ability?" And if you are, that's great. And it doesn't make you any less male.
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Radar

I took that BBC test too awhile back and came up male. But, think about it... it's an online quiz. You can't take those things too seriously. My psychologist even had me take two professional psych tests and I ended up being male on those too. But, many of the question/result relationships were a bit stereotypical. If I hadn't tested out male would I feel any different? No. And neither would you most likely.
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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Vancha

Firstly, my psychologist is not capable of making diagnoses in anyone.  I'm sure if she could, she would.  She is attempting to get me in with a psychiatrist who has a PhD and does diagnose gender identity disorder as well as write notes for hormone therapy.  But that may even be a struggle because of my age group.

If a test told me my brain was a healthy female brain, it wouldn't change who I feel I am.  Sometimes I'm merely frustrated because I wish there were actual biological pointers to prove who I am, not just in mind.  And what you all say is true, that not many men are completely masculine.  I'm sure many men, even straight and cisgendered men, might have more feminine brains, by what a test can tell.  Honestly, though, it makes me wonder: are these tests even legitimate?  What if someone never studied maps and shapes often, and thus did not perform well, but instead spent their energy on studying faces and words?  Male or female, a person performs best in a subject that they know.

If all the tests in the world told me I was a normal female, it still wouldn't change me.  I've been told I was a normal female all my life.  Sometimes I just feel frustrated because... I suppose it is natural to wonder whether there is any actual basis for our gender identities or whether there isn't.  It's easier for me to understand rules and science rather than emotions.  Even if I feel male, have always felt male and always will feel as such, it would be easier for me to understand such a concept if I could see it in brain scans.  Which is why I wish these junk science tests had any real value.

It's odd, because I don't want to be an overly masculine man... Not by any means.  Actually, I'm on the less masculine spectrum for FTMs. That said... The concept that my brain is female by any means terrifies me.
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Nero

Quoteare these tests even legitimate?
nope.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Vancha

Then how would a doctor even understand whether someone's brain is male or female?  If they are physically different and those variations show themselves as strengths and weaknesses that can be understood through a number of tests... Then does the brain's physical structure even dictate gender at all?

Eh, I'm rambling.
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Lachlann

Quote from: Adrian on July 14, 2009, 07:39:43 PMHonestly, though, it makes me wonder: are these tests even legitimate?  What if someone never studied maps and shapes often, and thus did not perform well, but instead spent their energy on studying faces and words?  Male or female, a person performs best in a subject that they know.

The whole maps and shapes thing is kind of a moot point, because it's testosterone that apparently is the cause of the potential ability to excel in these areas. A woman can excel at these areas too, but since these things tests are going after male traits, it's kind of silly to throw these in because they don't play much of a factor.

Brain scans don't exist for such a thing and if they did, it wouldn't really be a good way to determine it, considering you've got estrogen to skewer things up.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
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