how can i attractively obscure a very feminine figure?

[metal angel]

ideally i wanna be one of those gorgeous androgynous creatures that makes macho men question their sexuality and straight chicks just not care anymore, but i have a very feminine body (38" 30" 41" last time i measurred). How do i dress to make this more subtle? The only idea i have ever got from anyone is "i dunno, a fat suit, you could pass for a really big guy if you filled out the middle"... but that's not really my point...

ideas?

[Nero]

binding and shirts that cover the bottom half.

[Stealthgrrl]

Um...donate the hips to some deserving little gal like...me? 

[metal angel]

binding sounds painful? and unhealthy?

[Nero]

not if you get a proper binder. but depends how much obscurity you're wanting.

[metal angel]

maybe i just don't want it enough....

hrmmm... the look i am thinking of only seems to work on bioguys? brian molko is the only one i can think of off hand. I think it requires severe slenderness. I kind of want to look like a guy sometimes, but my ideal of manhood, is rather feminine. but in a way that's more male, man enough to wear makeup if you get what i mean?

hrmmm... i need some photos for this... i'll go find some.

hrmmm... cheasecake is good for hips... probably needs the help of female hormones to go where you want it to though. I never understood women being worried about the size of their hips, on a woman i think that is about the most attractive place for it to go, what would they prefer? a beer gut? a boy figure? maybe there are more aspiring F2Ms out there than we think?
Post Merge: August 10, 2009, 09:41:43 AM
not painful... propper binder? ok i'm listening. tried a minimiser bra once... that just gave me more ugly shaped tits.

listening and looking for photos of my ideal man enough to wear braids kinda male....

[Nero]

Underworks are good. http://ftm.underworks.com/
While not exactly comfortable, not bad either. Gets you pretty flat.

[metal angel]

lucious man locks... i could never make that hair look anything but barbie
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=15714191&albumID=332318&imageID=14665355

brian molko, i had such a crush on him in highschool (can't find a good photo of him i can link to, d'ya know who i mean?) and his drummer (the other one with long dark hair) ain't half bad either...

maybe reality is the wrong place to look, a body like this:
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=436970795&albumId=582794

this isn't the androgyney i was talking about, but this bass player is pretty hot, don't think the facial hair would suit me though, and i can't be arsed doing the martial arts and weight training he does to maintain the manly figure, that and his huge mounts of natural T giving him an unfair head start in the body area
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=325070020&albumID=919134&imageID=7232283#a=919134&i=7232320

Post Merge: August 10, 2009, 07:00:02 AM

Underworks are good. http://ftm.underworks.com/
While not exactly comfortable, not bad either. Gets you pretty flat.

thanks... hrmmm... where does it go? short of some tardis-like physics i can't see me fitting in there? and the models look like biomen?

dang i wish these things were retractable...

[Lutin]

dang i wish these things were retractable...

Lol don't we all (except for the lovely ladies, of course ).

No, Underworks is brilliant, I'm normally a DD and with their double-compression vest I'm not entirely flat, more like I look like I have big pecks. If you trawl through the FtM Transsexual area, there are lots of threads about binding, they're really awesomely helpful.

[Jaimey]

Oh, if there were a way to look like Brian Molko...*swoon*  Him and Davey Havok (especially now...he's gone a little scruffy and it looks so good!!!).  Gorgeous.  *dazed*

Eh-hem.  I think you're right on about the extreme slenderness thing.  That's about the only way to do it.  You could become a vegan (if you aren't already)...if you actually eat vegetables*, you would probably get that kind of thin

(*I have a friend who's vegetarian, but he hates vegetables...  I think he lives on PB&J and french fries...that's not the way to do it, for the record).

[barbie]

Oh, if there were a way to look like Brian Molko...*swoon*  Him and Davey Havok (especially now...he's gone a little scruffy and it looks so good!!!).  Gorgeous.  *dazed*

After searching images in google, Brian Molko looks very interesting to me. He is a kind of crossdresser? In wiki, it writes that he is bisexual.

Barbie~~

[Jaimey]

I don't think he's a crossdresser.  He just does the androgynous look...and he does it so well.    He is bi and I think the other guy (not the drummer) is gay, which is kind of unusual for a rock band.  I'd love to see them, but the closest they are coming is Columbus and I'm not driving that far to see them.  *sigh*


...I just realized that you said "tardis-like physics"...hehehe...I just saw a video from Comi-Con where David Tennant and John Barrowman kiss...it's just a little one, but it's so cute...

[metal angel]

still sounds uncomfortable/unhealthy? (i'm an E or F) I doubt i could hack it really, i am actually wonderring whether i could hack the restrictiveness of a wasteband on pants, they need to be a lot tighter than skirts do to stay up, i get queezy if i wear tight stuff. i'm gonna blame this on asperger's syndrome, apparently over-sensitivity to clothes is a big thing.

How about some combination of more gentle compression and something that would kind of obscure or detract? i keep ponderring some sort of OTT coat.

maybe i should be glad i'm a chick, the flip side of the "no one would see my point when i cross-dress" is that women can get away with anything, so i can wear the most comfortable i can find and look only slightly weird, e.g. men's boots loose flowing skirt. As a guy i'd probably wear the same... just get a lot more hassle for it...


maybe i should give up...

[Jaimey]

If you're an e or an f cup...you might could get a reduction covered by insurance, depending on your doc's opinion...I know a couple of girls who had reductions...you might could get them quite small (I don't really know a lot about it, but I'd think you'd have some say).  It might be something to look into if it bothers you a lot.

Don't give up, though.  That will make you miserable.  One thing you can do is to start taking baby steps.  Do little things to your appearance.  Some things might be a haircut, more androgynous accessories, shoes, clothes.  You can also adjust your speech, the way you walk/stand, attitude to be more masculine/androgynous.  Little things like that often make more of an impression than appearance.   

[dominik]

I would thought a pair of straight Levis 505 is enough to make a girl have that look, the more vintage, the better.
Dark tops should mask your curves. Also shirts with squares do the job.
If it's a night out... put on a tie on top of that, it's common in rock and it looks strong.
See, proper guys like and live rock
But don't overdo it - guys don't care too much  about their own look
And be rude ;-)

Love,
D

[Jaimey]

But don't overdo it - guys don't care too much  about their own look
And be rude ;-)

Actually, if Brian Molko is the ideal MA is going for, caring about looks is important.    An interviewer (who was actually interviewing AFI) was talking to Davey about makeup and mentioned that when asked, Brian Molko said he wore it because it made him look better.  Davey agreed.  So for those androgynous boys, looks are pretty important (as in you can tell they work hard at it...between the makeup and hair and fashion, they'd have to).  Besides, my little brother is probably the vainest person I've ever met.    And not all guys are rude...actually, most of the guys I know aren't.  They're perfectly polite and nice.  Let's not buy into stereotypes.

[dominik]

Right, but for a start, Brian is a guy who wants to look feminine. Make-up + details on his looks + highly pitched voice = more androgynous image.
Angel is a girl  for a start, so she needs to push in the exactly opposite direction, because she is already feminine, cares about her looks and is not rude (in a manly way) by nature, so I  think I'm pushing her into the right direction, if she wants to be androgeen.
And by rude I don't mean it in a negative way, just pretend she's got balls a bit    ...
being assertive in her opinions, speaking her mind in a straightforward fashion, perceiving things and expressing thoughts with less colors but more contrast. And if she does really think somebody *is* an ->-bleeped-<-, either don't say it or say it to his/her face, but just *don't gossip* about it with her friends. Do you see what I mean?

[Jaimey]

I get what you're trying to say, but I think there are better ways to say it.

Being straight forward, direct, and assertive aren't the same as being rude and they aren't restricted to men.  There are plenty of assertive women who are feminine.

These male rock stars that dress and act androgynously aren't trying to look feminine.  They're trying to look androgynous.  We're in the same boat.  And yes, the opposite of feminine is masculine, at least in binary terms, but that's not the same as being androgynous.  Androgyny (the physical representation of, I should say) is usually either a mix of the two binaries or a sort of absence or perhaps an inability to determine gender markers in a person's look or behavior.  If MA wanted to be a man, then that's what I would encourage.  But MA wants to be one of those gorgeous androgynous creatures (me too!) that make people question.  Therefore, I'd encourage MA to emulate any androgynous person, whether they are biologically male or female.  I think there is a great deal of similarity in their images and physicality (including gestures and speech) despite the differences in DNA. 

I guess what it comes down to is that becoming androgynous isn't as simple as acting like the other sex.  In fact, I think that acting like the opposite sex is as stifling as acting like one's birth sex. 

Angel is a girl  for a start, so she needs to push in the exactly opposite direction, because she is already feminine, cares about her looks and is not rude (in a manly way) by nature, so I  think I'm pushing her into the right direction, if she wants to be androgeen.

I actually have a lot of problems with this statement.  A person's gender and gender expression have nothing to do with their bodies.  While I think most of us have tried to fit in with other members of our birth sex, we aren't by nature like other members of our birth sex.  And assertiveness, vanity, etc. have nothing to do with the nature of our DNA.  Those are learned behaviors and are as likely to present in one gender as they are in the other.  I do understand what you're trying to say, so I'm not trying to be argumentative...I'm just trying to clarify, I guess. 

[metal angel]

I don't think he's a crossdresser.  He just does the androgynous look...and he does it so well.    He is bi and I think the other guy (not the drummer) is gay, which is kind of unusual for a rock band.  I'd love to see them, but the closest they are coming is Columbus and I'm not driving that far to see them.  *sigh*

How is that odd for a rock band?

See, proper guys like and live rock

rock is for nancy boys  metal is what i love and live \m/
that's what the metal in my screen name is for, silly...
(angel is because, by some traditions, angels have no gender)

I would say i (usually) don't care much about my appearance, or at least i don't fuss about it, much less than a lot of girls (females and M2F) at least. I don't shave anything, i never wear makeup (well maybe twice in the last ten years, both when dressing as Mairlyn Manson), i cut my own hair by tying it in a ponytail and just snipping off the end, i dress mainly for comfort and modesty, i don't pay that much attention to fashion. I guess i like to wear clothes i like, in my favourite colours etc. Which can make me look like a totoally camp ->-bleeped-<-got at times (is that word ok, as a biowoman it's one of my more creative claims to manhood, i mean no offense to others), but i can't be bothered with much grooming. But when i do my usual routine even though i don't dress with either gender in mind, given my body shape it comes off as distinctly female. Well the skirts i'd probably think twice about wearing to work if i was a guy, but given i'd look female even in pants, i tend to go for "why bother" and revert to comfort. I'm thinking of ideas of what to do when i am in a modd to be more expressive in the way i dress. Maybe not going out – the perk of being one of the only chicks in the metal bars is the ladies room is probably less crowded and less filthy. But maybe more for house parties etc.


Post Merge: August 12, 2009, 03:05:06 AM
I don't consider surgery an option, partly i sometimes don't mind being female, partly i'm a wimp, but mostly i just have the attitude when it comes to health of "if it's not sick, don't mess with it".

Hypothetically, if i needed a mastectomy - or even just a fair bit of breast tissue removed - for medical reasons (though i hope i don't ever need that, cos most reasons for that are very not good...), i'd see a more androgynous figure as the silver lining to that thunder cloud, and not get a reconstruction, maybe even get whole mastectomy if not 100% medically required, or get the other one removed for symmetry. But while they are healthy i'm just not going to mess with it.

[Jaimey]

Unusual in occurrence.  You don't hear about gay/bi rock stars very often...not odd, as in a gay/bi can't be in a rock band because it's weird.  I'd love it if there were more like them.