For all those on HRT: Can you still pass as male?

[omega1251]

Hi all,

I have been considering going on HRT before it's "too late" so to speak. However, I need to keep up both a male and female appearance and the results I've heard from HRT are mixed. Obvious differences may be simply breast size and fat redistribution which can be remedied if you're trying to pass as male, however, what about facial features?

I guess what I'm saying is, if you don't have make-up on do you still look like a guy?

Thanks all.

[finewine]

I guess what I'm saying is, if you don't have make-up on do you still look like a guy?

It really does differ from individual to individual.  Some MtF, even with HRT, still retain overtly masculine features which require FFS to address.  Others feminize quite readily.  An almond shaped face with high cheekbones will adapt differently to a strong brow and a square jaw

Depending on your reasons for wanting to present as either gender, you may want to consider carefully whether HRT is right for you (maybe with the help of a therapist?)

[omega1251]

Finewine,

Thanks for the reply. I guess I should have given a better introduction; perhaps because of my naivete to this whole matter and a sense of urgency as I escape my early twenties (currently 24) I am considering undergoing HRT just so I can get the "maximum possible benefit" so to speak.

I think going to a therapist is one of my first steps I should take; in reality I am fairly new to all this (just started crossdressing about a year ago with help from my gf) but always knew I had a bias for it since I had crossdressed and felt feminine when I was a young child.

Another piece of commentary that I've heard twice is that HRT is strictly for people who want to transition -- does anyone have opinion on that?

[lizbeth]

I was on HRT for a full year and presented as male at work with no questions, i've always had long hair so i guess people were used to it. I had to stop after a year for financial reasons and that was a few years back. I started HRT again 3 months ago and still present as male, but I have to admit that now people are starting to notice.

Another piece of commentary that I've heard twice is that HRT is strictly for people who want to transition -- does anyone have opinion on that?

HRT is absolutely intended for people who are transitioning*, but as finewine said everyone has different results, and you may be able to "hide" some physical traits, but you will alter your body's chemistry and some changes will be permanent. you really shouldn't consider HRT unless you plan on transitioning.

HTH

_{*at least for purposes discusses here.}

[finewine]

[...]
I think going to a therapist is one of my first steps I should take; in reality I am fairly new to all this (just started crossdressing about a year ago with help from my gf) but always knew I had a bias for it since I had crossdressed and felt feminine when I was a young child.

Oh definitely getting some advice from a good therapist who understands the gender identity space is very important.  That's not to question your feelings or call your identity into doubt but more to help you unravel your needs, desires and options.  Also, it's pretty much a prerequisite for getting HRT under medical oversight, I believe.

I sincerely wish you good luck in these early steps into a new world

Another piece of commentary that I've heard twice is that HRT is strictly for people who want to transition -- does anyone have opinion on that?

Ditto what beth-chella said.

[Valerie Elizabeth]

Finewine,

Thanks for the reply. I guess I should have given a better introduction; perhaps because of my naivete to this whole matter and a sense of urgency as I escape my early twenties (currently 24) I am considering undergoing HRT just so I can get the "maximum possible benefit" so to speak.

I think going to a therapist is one of my first steps I should take; in reality I am fairly new to all this (just started crossdressing about a year ago with help from my gf) but always knew I had a bias for it since I had crossdressed and felt feminine when I was a young child.

Another piece of commentary that I've heard twice is that HRT is strictly for people who want to transition -- does anyone have opinion on that?

Can I still pass as a male?  Yes.  I get sir'd pretty frequently, however - I think it has a lot to do with my voice (which I am working on).  I don't think it's ever "too late", but I think earlier in life is better than later in life.  So, I understand what you are going through, I am 22 myself.  The other thing is, that HRT is not an overnight thing.  I mean, you wont start HRT and two weeks later have a B cup and a new face.  I had noticeable results in about 2 months, but it was nothing I couldn't hide (not that I was).  I have been on HRT for 7 months and am around AA's.  I did have FFS so I can't say how much my face changed because of HRT.  I can say that my skin has gotten way way better, and before FFS, only my really close friends noticed the very small changes to my face.  It looked just a bit more androgynous.  I had FFS at about 4 months after starting HRT.

Is HRT for people who want to transition.  Yes and No.  I don't think you need to transition to be on HRT.  What if HRT is all that you need?  Should you still transition all the way?  No, I don't think so.  I don't think it should be limited to people who are going to transition all the way.  However, if you are transitioning all the way, then HRT is right as well.

Here is what the WPATH Standards of Care states

Can Hormones Be Given To Those Who Do Not Want Surgery or a Real-life Experience?

Yes, but after diagnosis and psychotherapy with a qualified mental health professional following minimal standards listed above. Hormone therapy can provide significant comfort to gender patients who do not wish to cross live or undergo surgery, or who are unable to do so. In some patients, hormone therapy alone may provide sufficient symptomatic relief to obviate the need for cross living or surgery.

Here is what I have learned.  You need to do what YOU need to do.  You can get advice from other people here, or people elsewhere but it all boils down to you.  Get a therapist.  If you are in college try on campus.  If not, try and find one near you.

Lastly, Therapists, HRT, FFS, are not magic.  Think about this.  When you start HRT, whats going to change?  You are not going to become this brand new person.  You are still going to be living in the same place, hanging out with the same friends, have the same job, etc.  The only thing that is changing is that you're taking HRT.  The same goes for surgery.  After SRS, the only thing that is going to change is the fact that you now have a vagina, and hopefully you are a bit happier and more at peace than you were before. 

I hope that this helps.  PM me if you need anything.
Post Merge: September 11, 2009, 09:55:24 AM

Oh definitely getting some advice from a good therapist who understands the gender identity space is very important.  That's not to question your feelings or call your identity into doubt but more to help you unravel your needs, desires and options.  Also, it's pretty much a prerequisite for getting HRT under medical oversight, I believe.

Here is what WPATH Standards of Care states for adults.

Eligibility Criteria. The administration of hormones is not to be lightly undertaken because of
their medical and social risks. Three criteria exist.
1. Age 18 years;
2. Demonstrable knowledge of what hormones medically can and cannot do and their social
benefits and risks;
3. Either:
a. A documented real-life experience of at least three months prior to the administration
of hormones; or
b. A period of psychotherapy of a duration specified by the mental health professional
after the initial evaluation (usually a minimum of three months).

In selected circumstances, it can be acceptable to provide hormones to patients who have not fulfilled criterion 3 – for example, to facilitate the provision of monitored therapy using
hormones of known quality, as an alternative to black-market or unsupervised hormone use.


Readiness Criteria. Three criteria exist:

1. The patient has had further consolidation of gender identity during the real-life
experience or psychotherapy;
2. The patient has made some progress in mastering other identified problems leading to
improving or continuing stable mental health (this implies satisfactory control of
problems such as sociopathy, substance abuse, psychosis and suicidality;
3. The patient is likely to take hormones in a responsible manner. 

Sorry for the long post.  I tend to get carried away.

[Marie]

I experienced dramatic facial changes on hrt in the first 6 months.  I started shortly after my 28th birthday and have taken the dosages rec'd by my doctor (i.e not doing an unsafe dosage etc)

People at work thought I had undergone facial surgery and were aware of the changes.  After coming out one co-workers pretty much pinpointed when I started.

Do not start HRT unless you want to (OMG) risk not looking like a man.

[CharleneT]

The results will depend on a lot of factors and there isn't much research into it:  hence no real rules to guide you for possible futures.  Some facts though, the older you are, the less the changes.  You are (relative to this) very young, so you have the chance of more extensive changes.  BUT, you'll not know what till you have been on HRT for months.  It is definitely not something to do as an experiment, remember, to a degree it is a one way street. 

The facial changes that are possible from HRT are not usually very dramatic.  Your bone structure, which is a lot of what makes you look male or female, is fixed ( assuming no FFS).  The only thing that can change from the drugs is soft tissues and mostly it is from fat re-distribution (  unless you start HRT before age 16 or so).  Obviously how you look plays into this a lot.  Me for example, I have a bony thin face.  Hence I pretty much look the same and probably always will.  Do I look like a guy without makeup ?  Yes.  That said, I also get Mame'd a lot these days.  How people id your gender is very complex - even with a male face you may "pass" easily.  Sorry if this isn't a firm answer - sadly on this topic, there isn't one.

[Valerie Elizabeth]

I guess I didn't actually answer the question.  Can I pass as a male without makeup?  Yes.  I haven't been doing my makeup lately.  Been spending more time on my hair.

I think without my voice I pass with or without makeup.  For example, I went through the drive through and the person at the first window said sir because I talked with him.  The person at the second window didn't talk with me and said ma'am.

[K8]

I believe that you really need to talk with a qualified person - a therapist - before starting HRT.  Whether you can get the drugs without it isn't the question.  The question to be answered is: What is right for you?  Before you answer that question thoroughly, I strongly believe you should not start changing the hormonal balance of your system.

Yes, they work better on younger people than older people, but I am getting excellent results starting on them in my (OMG!) 60s.

I know this doesn't answer the question you asked, Omega, but - really - talk to someone qualified to help you figure out what you want and need.  Hormones are powerful drugs.

And good luck to you on your journey of self-discovery.

- Kate

[shanetastic]

short answer yeah I still can without many problems hehe.

[placeholdername]

Another piece of commentary that I've heard twice is that HRT is strictly for people who want to transition -- does anyone have opinion on that?

The place I go to has a policy something like 'helping each individual get to the place they want to be' -- but at the same time they do their best to avoid starting people on things that they're not ready for.  There's the whole thing called the Standards of Care that a lot of places follow, but not every place follows it right to the letter.  The best thing you can do is find a therapist who specializes in gender issues ('has experience with gender issues' doesn't really count, but will do if you can't find anyone else).  If/when you find one of those therapists they can really help you figure out where you want to go and how you want to get there.  If your therapist starts telling you that you're one way and not another or vice versa, find a new therapist .

[Myself]

Regarding what CharleneT said, you don't have to start at 16 to have completely female body, there are many people who have very narrow and female height bodies, it a lot depends on genetics and how you went through your puberty.

Just like there are women who grow taller and wider like men.

So, it varies.

There are people who after HRT had very feminine bodies but needed to have FFS to pass, and people who didn't need a thing.
Some were starting around their end of their puberty or early twenties or before, some manage later too, all depends

[omega1251]

OK, wow I'm overwhelmed with the number of responses here. Thanks so much! I'll take the appropriate actions before pursuing a life-altering path.

Thanks to all.

O

[Hannah]

I experienced dramatic facial changes on hrt in the first 6 months.

This is somewhat true, but in any case one sure way to pass as male is to open your mouth.

[K8]

This is somewhat true, but in any case one sure way to pass as male is to open your mouth.

Yesterday I was talking with a girlfriend.  I don't remember what we were talking about, but I did the deep voice "What's going on here?" or something and almost choked myself after with a coughing fit.   Gradually your voice gets used to not using that register.  But I've still got at best a whiskey tenor.

- Kate

[CharleneT]

Regarding what CharleneT said, you don't have to start at 16 to have completely female body, there are many people who have very narrow and female height bodies, it a lot depends on genetics and how you went through your puberty.

Just like there are women who grow taller and wider like men.

So, it varies.

There are people who after HRT had very feminine bodies but needed to have FFS to pass, and people who didn't need a thing.
Some were starting around their end of their puberty or early twenties or before, some manage later too, all depends

Quite right !  I didn't respond very clearly, I was referring to whether you could change the underlying bone structure via HRT.  This is only possible before the bones are completely grown and fixed -- hence before age 16.  After that and you can only change the soft tissues.  Sorry, I wasn't talking about how feminine a person might already look.

[Tristan]

for me it really depends on what im whearing. but id say 40% of te time i can sstill eally pass as a guy if i try

[Pippa]

Unfortunately yes.

I am six months into transition and to be honest, I am at the stage where I want to see dramatic changes.  Transition cannot happen quickly enough!

I know everyone is different but I am constantly amazed by the changes in others.   I also know that I have to be patient and transition takes time.

I know I have changed.   My breasts are slowly developing, I have lost a load of weight and my face has softened.  I just cannot wait until the male me has gone.

Work colleagues and friends have noticed changes.  Particularly the loss of weight but I don't think any of them have guessed the true reason.

[Janet_Girl]

Probably.  But Why?


Janet