Womanhood - Expectations vs. Reality

[MaggieB]

Thanks, Julie...  that photo is exactly what I think I look like in the dark, in my bed under my blanket, half asleep... 

Then I turn on the light and I see this old woman there. Isn't that amazing how light can do that?

Now, you've done it. My mating urge got resurrected from the dead. 

What am I going to do now?

Maggie

[Miniar]

...

cougars!

*giggles and runs into hiding*

[MaggieB]

Hey! I consider cougar to be a compliment but I doubt they would consider me one.  I'm too old even for that moniker...

Maggie

[NikkiJ]

This reminds me of the line in a movie about women over 40 (maybe 35?) being invisible in society. This was said by one woman while she was showing another woman how easy it was to shoplift at that age.

[Northern Jane]

... cougars!

Why thank you!

I am 60 and have a date tomorrow with a 43 year old who has been pursuing me for some time. I finally gave in and said yes.
Post Merge: October 17, 2009, 08:27:32 PM

While I dearly wish that I could have transitioned decades before I did, I'm not sure how well I would handle life as a transsexual in the mating game.

If you had transitioned decades earlier you would not be "a transsexual in the mating game" but simply a young woman in the dating game.

[sarals]

Oh, good heavens!  I would love it if someone would call me a cougar!  Now, if only they would...

[Monique Martinez]

This reminds me of the line in a movie about women over 40 (maybe 35?) being invisible in society. This was said by one woman while she was showing another woman how easy it was to shoplift at that age.

LOLS!!!!!!
aaawwwwww. :-/

[Ms Bev]

Good Gawd, Julie Marie......I would say I wish I could stick my finger in your estrogen bottle, if it made me look like that , but....
It would sound so utterly WRONG!......LOL......

Bev

[The None Blonde]

Calmer, less aggressive, less anxiety interacting with people - Possibly at times.

Women will accept me as one of them - more girl talk, more fluid conversations(because I don't need to be concerned about revealing too much of my feminine personality) - winning team always accepts its players

People will not be weirded out by my fem mannerisms, speech patterns, or body language - true

Lesbians will consider me as a suitable partner(at least, alot more than do now!:P) - heh, perhaps not... i hear some run a mile at trans.

Emotions will intensify - cry more, happy more, feel more - deffinately

Calmer, more patient, and move loving to my daughter - less irritable - haha, not at times!

More concerned with my appearance - perhaps.

Straight men will be more attracted to me, men in general will expect less from me - more impressed when I exceed their expectations - Not always. some men expect MORE of females in certain aspects, and no, they wont be more impressed. welcome to the world of 'twice the effort, a quater of the thanks.'

Feel more vulnerable(physically and emotionally) - maybe.

Love myself - thats not a female thing.

Look in the mirror and be happy that I have this body and that I'm me - perhaps

Feel sexier, more attractive - perhaps

More difficult to orgasm, but more intense(waves, tinglies, multiple) - not likely.... the kit isnt that authentic yet sadly.

Become more communal oriented - Perhaps, but unlikely

Feel a closer bond to my lovers(women) - wouldnt know about females.

Expected to wear makeup, jewelry, accessories - Not expected, but can.

Expected not to work on my car or house, or eat a big plate of ribs, etc - to be "girly" - haha, got to be joking..... Women have been emancipated you know?

Be scroned by men as a "dyke", talked about behind my back by women -uhuh

Smoother skin, less body hair, less shaving - mm yes and no legs are a pain.

Closer affiliation with my body, more self-confidence - possible

More jiggly - more hips, more chest, less tummy/shoulders - possible, but shoulders/ skeleton doesnt tend to change really.



I had no real expectations, I've taken life as it comes, and my experience is limited so far... im just a college student. However, One thing I have noticed that people here seem to miss, is women are just like men, only... not. We're all human, and imo its largely a house with the golden windows scenario..... whats far away looks better/different.  Perhaps its easier to see what you expect before hand, the reality is .... reality.

[K8]

Tomorrow will be my sixth mensiversary as Kate.  I started full-time six months ago.  I saw my therapist today, so it seemed like a good summing up time and I thought of this thread.

I am happy now.  I used to be a generally cheerful and optimistic person, but now I'm a happy person.  I thought becoming Kate might make me happier but didn't know it would make me a happy person.  (If that makes sense. )

I thought I would be more relaxed by being more open with my friends.  I didn't realize that I would also be more open with myself.  I am far more comfortable with myself now.  I understand better who I am and accept myself better. 

I find I don't have to compartmentalize my thoughts and feelings.  I am becoming whole.

I am far more comfortable in "guy" situations.  I was always awkward because I knew I wasn't doing it right.  Now I can wiggle when I walk and wave my hands around when I talk and fluff my hair and be silly because I'm not a guy.  (I can also be more ballsy than I ever managed as an ersatz guy.)

Along the same lines, I can just be myself.  I don't worry anymore about whether I'm "doing it right."  I just am who I am.

For much of my life I've lived through others.  I always had a best friend and would relate to others through that best friend.  And then I was married, and my spouse was my best friend.  Now I can relate to people directly without that intermediary.  Kate is out of the cage and facing the world head-on.  (And she is fully up to the task. )

My therapist said in the beginning of this I would talk about how others saw me but now talk about how I see myself, which may be similar to the above.  But it also means that I see myself as a woman now, where before I would wonder whether others saw me as one.

The changes are both dramatic and subtle.  I didn't expect most of them, or may have expected them but certainly not to this extent.  After all, it is hard to fully envision freedom when you've lived all your life in a cage.

- Kate

[Pippa]

I have been having a pretty stressful time at work over the last few weeks.   Trust this to happen as the hormones kick in!   

My emotions are in the blender at the moment.   One moment I am as happy as Larry, the next I am bubbling lke a baby.   I have had issues with with depression in the past and I am determined not to have such issues again.   I just keep reminding myself that what is happening is natural as my brain chemistry adjusts to the new hormone balance.   To be honest, I am glad that I am experiencing more than physical changes and my transition is making me a woman both emotionally and physically.   

I know the danger signs of depression and have spoken to my boss and made her aware of my past issues.   I am prepared to take some time away from work and to call on my counsellor if I feel I am heading in that direction.   I have also been given some techniques by my counsellor if I feel things are getting too much.

On a happier note, my appearance and confidence to express the real me to the world is growing everyday.   I am hopng that this is an exponential curve and that every small change I see or feel will have an ever growing strenthening to my overall wellbeing.   I have been more and more able to act in a more feminine manner.   I have a better relationship with other women and feel much more comfortable chatting and gossipping.   I am not out at work yet and I am sure that the girls believe I am gay.   I know I am soon to reach a point of no return, where it is impossible for me to hide the changes, and I will have to come out of the closet at work as well as in my private life.   I am sure it will be a shock to many and I know people's reactions will vary greatly.  I am also lucky to have an employer who has a very positive policy to the LGBT community.

[K8]

After a long conversation with a girlfriend, I thought of another unexpected outcome:

I am a LOT livlier.  (And I love it. )

- Kate

[Cadence Jean]

You girls have taken my thread and ran with it.  Too cool!  Lots of stuff posted since last I checked in.  The big one would have to be the post with the over/under 35 rule.  What a crock.  It really depends on the woman.  Maybe a study could be done that would give us statistics on how passable, if such a thing could be measured, a gal is if she starts HRT before or after a certain age, but that would only be a statistic.  It could be used for risk assessment, but it wouldn't necessarily be reality for a particular woman.  It comes back to, "you don't know what will happen until you try it."  I agree with she who said, and I paraphrase, "It's not a choice between passing as a woman or living as a man, it's a choice between living as a woman or not living."  I don't see my case being as extreme as such a choice, so at this point I'm going to try the androgyny thing for a while and see if I can be at peace with myself at that point.  If not, then I move on to the next level.  I guess that's sort of a good way to bring this thread back around - HRT and transition are still in the back of my mind, but they're not my immediate concern.  I'm taking smaller slices of the transition at a time now.  I'll start by working on changing my presentation from male to more androgynous(and most everyone thinks I'm a closet case anyway, so I won't have to worry about people beginning to think that, since they already do!) - take care of the facial hair, dress and accessorize more in-between, and get acquainted with the LGBT community in the area.  I have to credit my therapist with that last one.  I went to my first trans support group meeting on Sunday.  Wow - that was a big step.  Admitting to a bunch of strangers that they may see a male, but there's really a female looking back at them is oddly not one of the most anxiety producing things I've ever done, but definitely one of the most difficult things to simply admit.  I knew they would accept me, but forming the words and looking them in the eye as I did it - I'm proud of myself.  What I wanted to say though was that there were women in attendance that transitioned in their forties that were completely passable.  Even their voice and laugh was well done.  I think some people might notice that there might be something a little different about them, but I can't see people immediately jumping to the conclusion of "she was born a he".  That's a pretty big stretch of the imagination for most people.  I have to admit though, the transmen in attendance - extremely convincing.  They make it look so easy - they take the T, and off they go!  Lucky bastards.>:I  Just goes to show you that women have it more difficult, even in transition!

[Hannah]

hai calli 

That sounds like a cool group!

[sarals]

<snip>
What I wanted to say though was that there were women in attendance that transitioned in their forties that were completely passable.  Even their voice and laugh was well done.  I think some people might notice that there might be something a little different about them, but I can't see people immediately jumping to the conclusion of "she was born a he".  That's a pretty big stretch of the imagination for most people.  I have to admit though, the transmen in attendance - extremely convincing.  They make it look so easy - they take the T, and off they go!  Lucky bastards.>:I  Just goes to show you that women have it more difficult, even in transition!

Good for you on going to the support group, Calliope!

I know many trans women, me among them, who do not cause people to assume they were born male bodied.  Two cases in point:  Most of the people at my work place have known me since before my transition.  The people who arrived after I transitioned didn't know or even suspect that I *was* male bodied at one time until I told them (I'd rather they heard it from me).  Secondly, I tried out for a role in the Vagina Monologues last week, and NO ONE at the audition knew or suspected that I was trans.  No one at all.

I transitioned at 55.  YMMV, but really, you stand a good chance of being yourself no matter your age.

[Julie Marie]

I transitioned at 55.  YMMV, but really, you stand a good chance of being yourself no matter your age.

  Well said!

I waited until I was 57, thought I'd never pass.  I was wrong!  Even the 2-TS rule doesn't apply, which I was told was a virtual absolute.  I've even broken the 3-TS rule!

Expectations that are reasonable should result in a favorable reality.

Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.

Julie

[MaggieB]

I have a lingering issue from the 35 passing comments.  One younger gal said that the older gals just think they pass and people like her can read us instantly.  This got me to thinking about my situation.  I say that I pass all the time.  What I think though may not be the truth.  What if other people see masculine features in me but because they aren't out looking for transsexuals, they dismiss it and give me the benefit of the doubt?

It would follow that as time goes on people I repeatedly come in contact might figure it out.  If I go to the same restaurant time after time, will the staff finally figure it out?  Will my mail lady who chats with me all the time eventually figure it out?  As time goes on eventually I'll slip up in some way that tips the balance and I am read. 

So I wonder just what passing really means.  Passing as a stranger in a one time situation is one thing, passing in repeated contact is an entirely other manner.  Then what happens?  She could think,"I know her/him well enough so it doesn't matter" or "OMG, she is a man. I better alert the neighborhood to this pervert."   I am a not pervert but that is what the uninitiated think because of the Jerry Springer effect. 

Will passing become more difficult as society becomes more aware of transsexuality?  Will we no longer be given the benefit of the doubt as more and more religious organizations focus on us because of ENDA?

I don't believe that I should pass as well as I do so this makes me wonder what is going on.  If I am right, I'm not sure what to do.

Maggie

[The None Blonde]

Think you're right maggie... frankly, the people that say they can read ts, are just reading masculine features, i garuntee 90% of thier 'dead certs' are just natal women.... hell, my best friend got it once from a ts... and shes not! shes gorgeous, but tall.... some people lol

[Julie Marie]

Maggie, you're being too hard on yourself.  Don't let some silly comment haunt your thoughts.  For all you know someone may not like your dress or your shoes.  Would that matter?  Everyone has something they don't like.  Thankfully most keep their opinions to themselves.  You are the only one hurt by lingering thoughts about who you are. 

Go out, be yourself and enjoy life.  Let the narrow minded, opinionated, phobic people ruin their own lives.

Julie

[MaggieB]

Maggie, you're being too hard on yourself.  Don't let some silly comment haunt your thoughts.  For all you know someone may not like your dress or your shoes.  Would that matter?  Everyone has something they don't like.  Thankfully most keep their opinions to themselves.  You are the only one hurt by lingering thoughts about who you are. 

Go out, be yourself and enjoy life.  Let the narrow minded, opinionated, phobic people ruin their own lives.

Julie

Julie,
I am sensitized to the issue because just after we moved into our new neighborhood, over a year ago, the next house became a christian outreach center focusing on Hispanic gang members.  So we see several new faces of young men coming and going as some are apparently allowed to live there.  Our household is from their perspective, two women living together, sharing a vehicle and being seen together.  It is not much of a stretch to them thinking we are lesbians. 

On a regular basis, they play some religious speaker doing one of those shouting style sermons and it is loud enough for everyone in the outside area to hear.  Inside the house, it must be almost deafening. 

Just recently, there was a new man in the midst of some of the other regulars. I am friendly and will return a greeting when they do so and most times that is all there is.  This one time, I got a look from this new guy that made my blood run cold.  They stand around working on cars or milling about outside and when I have to come out for the mail or to get in my van, they look at me.  It creeps me out.

So, when I speak about passing, I have this in the back of my mind.  I have been threatened before in a nearby town where I was sitting in an outdoor cafe and a passerby on the street said he was going to kill me.  I can't forget that even though I was not passable back then. 

My concern is twofold, repeated contact resulting in being read or some ability of the younger set to read. 

Maggie