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Fascism anyone?

Started by cindianna_jones, October 14, 2006, 04:38:30 AM

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cindianna_jones

You've heard the "liberal press" refer to Facism, Hitler or the Nazis when reporting actions of our current government.  You've also very likely seen how cleverly these comments have been difused and dismissed.

Yes, the changes are small and feed upon our fears. Those who fail to see the comparisons made to the Facists and Nazis have not read their history. Every step towards nationalism and fascism lead us down the dangerous path. And if you don't know what fascism is, look up what it means. It supports the corporate state. The machines of commerce are supported by the government. The people exist to support the machine of business.

Okay, I know that it isn't convenient, so I've looked it up for you to make it easy:

"a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism."

We are heading that way, no? Our government has a single sense of power. It suppresses the truth. It open handedly dismisses those who criticize as non patriots. Industry and comerce are king. It aggressively supports nationalism and we've seen cases of racism. Every single part of the definition is being fulfilled.

It took several years of Nazi fascism to storm Germany. By the time Hitler was given control, it was too late to change political process. By the time that Hitler invaded Poland, Germany and its citizens were accustsomed to restrictions on personal rights. When it came time for the final solution, every single citizen was totally powerless to do anything but fear for their own life.

I don't believe that we will ever accept a total facist society. I do believe we will see some small changes in the next election. But I know that the welfare of our people will need suffer much more before we rise up and do anything to change it all.

I strongly encourage everyone to study the issues on their ballots this year.  You know how all of this affects us as "special" citizens.  Fortunately, we still have the power to vote. Let's use it while we can.

So get out and vote my friends. Vote with knowledge of the issues.

Cindi
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Rana

Cindi I agree.  But what are the issues?

I am wondering if things are too late already?   By a coincidence I was reading of the memoirs of a German who came to Australia after WWII.   He stated that he truely believed that it was Poland that attacked Germany and had no idea about the true state of things until he came to Australia.  Have been watching the documentary on TV  "Space Race" .Werner Von Braun believed he was defending Germany against outside aggression.  Arn't we all so very lucky he did not have a couple of extra years to develop his rockets.

How can one make a decision if you don't know the facts?  Isn't the media of all sorts in the US too highly concentrated already.   Hitler built on a fear of communism and outside influnces bent on destroying Germany cleverly weaving half truths.   Just like the US today I reckon.

It comes down to this how can one determine what the real issues are :(

Rana
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cindianna_jones

#2
Oh Rana... but you know.  Don'tchya?  I agree that so many are totally bamboozled.  But I think that it is pretty clear now that the public is upset about the curent state of affairs.  I was going to make a list of issues that affect people most.  But when it got to a couple dozen, I decided that my statement on Fascism was a fairly good overview.

Any time someone tells me that voicing an opinion is unamerican, I know that they are dead wrong. And I can unwind their rope from there all by myself.

Cindi
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Rana

But thats the point Cindi I really don't.   I can remember 9/11.   I can remember Afghanistan "Yay!!"   drop those MOABS on those muslim fanatics - make them think twice about stuff.  I can remember Iraq (I had doubts - I suspected that Iraq was chosen because it was perceived as the most irritaing yet most vunerable middle eastern state and that most probably they DID have chemical &/or biological weapons that Saddam would have been happy to make available to fanatics to use on western countries.
More importantly I suspected that the US wanted to make an extreme example - do nasty things to the US and the countries that harbour & support you - well nasty things will heppen to THEM.  It certainly made everyone sit up and take notice
Then, I cannot remember any doubts and objections to the US military action,  seemed to me that all of the US was cheering President Bush.   
Now, when it seems that you are all in yet another quagmire costing many many lives & lost opportunities - I can't remember seeing anyoue at all who was for the war?
By the time the real story comes out (if indeed we are getting it even now) things are already too late.
Thats how Hitler seized power - an emergency and quick lets do somthing, anything to protect ourselves.  Before that he was seen by Germans as a bit of a joke, later - it was too late :(

The danger I see Cindi, is getting caught up in the moment & falling for the simple solution.  Voting those emergency extra powers to the President or temporarily suspending rights/protections.  Yet sometimes you have to do exactly that - a Government of National Unity in the face of an extreme threat.  How can you tell the serious from the fake :(

Rana
(suspects that when you see Homeland Security people in cool uniforms with shiny boots - its already too late)

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Hazumu

So how does Fascism get its start?

Years ago I read a story in an edition of The Whole Earth Catalog, titled The Third Wave.

There are debunkers out on the 'net who are trying desperately to shoot it down and say it never happened. (The linked debunker also has a few pages trying to cast a fog over whether or not the Nazi gas chambers were really gas chambers, too.)  There are students who attended the high school at the time and said that something like this DID occur, and that author Ron Jones' account has been to some degree embellished (A lot? A little?  I don't know/care.)  Take the story as a parable or allegory on how a society is led down the rosy path to fascism.

Throw in Psychologist Stanley Milgram's Obedience to Authority experiment, and the Stanford Prison experiment, and you start to understand just how easy it is to change the social dynamic from FREEDOM to "Freedom"...

I became very scared on September Eleventh, Two thousand and One.  Not because 'our' country had been 'attacked', but because I perceived on that day that the events would make it very easy to take U.S. society in the direction of fascism.

There's more to comment on -- the consolidation of control over the media, the demonization of anything that could restore balance of perspective -- I try not to think of it because it only makes me scared/depressed.

Karen
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Chaunte

I have to agree - the Federal government of the United States, in the wake of fear and extreamism, is on a very slippery slope.  And we, the citizens, have a very small window of opportunity to make a course correction to the SHip of State.

Ever since 9/11, under the guise of protecting the populace and ridding the world of terorism, the federal government has been removing more and more of our civil liberties.  In the six years of this administration and Congress, the United States has moved from being the light of freedom for the world to becoming the Evil Empire.

More than ever, we must vote.  We need to get out friends and relations to the polls.  We need to take back our government from those who would misuse the powers we have entrusted them with.

Vote. The nation you save may be your own.

Chaunte
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LostInTime

Check out Todd Strasser's, "The Wave" which is based on the 1969 incident at the Palo Alto high school.

I actually met the author when I was very young.  He gave a little speech to my class about writing.  I bought (and had signed) his adaptation of "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" which was funnier than the movie (IMHO).

We still have a right to vote, the problem is that many choose not to vote.  I did listen to a political speaker say that he thinks (as do a number of others) that for various reasons the GOP religious right will not be out en force this coming November and that it will be a great time to try and get some people into the legislature and judicial branches that are a bit more friendly when it comes to the LGBT crowd.

Some words to think on:
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want rain without thunder and lightning.
Frederick Douglass

Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgement and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support
the totalitarian state.
John Dewey

A regime, an established order, is rarely overthrown by a revolutionary movement; usually a regime collapses of its own weakness and corruption and then a revolutionary movement enters among the ruins and takes over the powers that have become vacant.
Walter Lippman

Everything I see about me is sowing the seeds of a revolution that is inevitable, though I shall not have the pleasure of seeing it.  The lightning is so close at hand that it will strike at the first chance, and then there will be a pretty uproar. The young are fortunate, for they will see fine things.
Voltaire

The bigger a state becomes the more liberty diminishes.
Jean Jacques Rousseau

There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
Machiavelli

That being said, I do not believe we are seeing echoes of Nazi Germany and those who throw the term Nazi about loosely only diminishes the history attached to it.  We still can make a difference and should do so every chance we get.  Pull the levers (or push those buttons or fill in those boxes) every time an election cycle comes up.  Do not decide not to go just because the other party always wins.  It is important to start the momentum and do your part keeping it up.  Volunteer for a local special interest group (or start your own).  Write Op-Eds for anywhere in the country or the world and send them in.  Volunteer for politicians that you want to support.  Call, call, call, and write (snail mail) your elected officials.  Thank them when they vote your way and let them know that you are displeased if they do not.

Oh I always find it curious that many of those who think our country is soon to be the next big bad in the world also tries to keep firearms out of the hands of the citizenry.  Have never been able to figure that one out. 
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Satin

Quote from: LostInTime on October 17, 2006, 01:52:26 PM
...Write Op-Eds for anywhere in the country or the world and send them in.  Volunteer for politicians that you want to support.  Call, call, call, and write (snail mail) your elected officials.  Thank them when they vote your way and let them know that you are displeased if they do not...

I believe that this is the best advice any citizen can take if they care enough to participate in our country's affairs.  Voting is vitally important but it is infrequent, most elections are decided on local issues, and your voice gets drowned out from all of the others speaking on that particular day.  On the other hand, since so few actually do as LostInTime advocates, their voices are disproportionally magnified. 

I belive that increasing voter turnout is only good if those who have to be encouraged to make the effort also endeavor to fully understand the issues beforehand.  Call me cynical, but I do not have much faith in that happening.

Satin
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Ellissa Ray

The direction this country is going definitally wories me too...facism, a definate posibility

Im sure most, if not all of you are aware of the "truth about 9/11" stuff thats been going around as laid out in the free movie "loose change". though I can't say I believe it, they do propose a compelling argument. I do see it at least as a posibility. and I definatally do not believe the government is telling us the whole or even parcial truth about what happened.

What ever the actual occurance of events that caused the catastrophy on 9/11 there is a part of me that cant help but think that our government was involved. Though its just a theory of mine, I'm going to lay out some thoughts I've had about this whole s$%ty situation the US is headed twards.

so here goes..

Now I'm not sure when the whole thing would have started and who is ultimatally responcible. there's a part of me that thought Bush Sr. but who knows. anyway at some point,maybe durring Clintons presidency or even earlier, someone or some group decided it was necesary to do something to take control of the country. And if you look up about historical governments, and how some of the dictators came into power, it will make you wounder id we're following a simmilar course. Nazi germany is only one example of the use of false fear to obtain support, there was also "Marcus Licineus Crassus, wanted to rule Rome", "Julius Caesar's political opponent, Cicero, for all his literary accomplishments, played the same games in his campaign against Julius Caesar" those are some examples I came across on armageddononline(org). None the less why would we think that the power hungry political figures now in the US wouldn't be just as bad. So what if...the government either faked 9/11 as a terrorist act or cooperated with Osama to carry out the attack in exchange for protection or some form of benifit to alquida...just for the purpose to instill fear in the citizens of our country. so for what purpose? Maybe multiple reasons...to go into Iraq, to take total control over our country.

There are some other symptoms that hint twards a posible future facist US. Passing more restrictive law such as those against gay mariage, Increasing security at our airports, wanting to close our country off from bordering countrys (mexico), hiding unconstitutional provisions in the poatriot act claming its all anti terrorist in nature in order to pass it, among other things I can't remember at the moment.
Then theres the idea of trying to unite us all. Is all of us believing the same things, having the same ideals, really good? The way I see it alowing more freedom and diversity, and promoting cooperation and open sharing ideas among different groups is favorable.

I seriously feel that the next few ellections will be the most important ones in our life time to restore our country to what it's supposed to be, a true democracy and not let it fall into the facist hands of a dictator.

just my thoughts, Elly.
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LostInTime

There are more signs pointing to the eventual WWIII than a total takeover of our country by a dictator I think.

The US government will eventually finish devolving into a democracy (mob rule) and out of that mob will come a strong leader that will kick us into a totalitarian state.  That state will eventually fall into anarchy and from the rubble of anarchy will come a new form of government, more just than the previous (totalitarian) state.

All elections are important.  To people who are important to you, let them know that you are educated on the key issues and let your voice be heard.  By quietly influencing a friend here or there, you can create quite a stunning ripple effect.  The key is to not lose hope and give up.

I have posted a link to a civil rights group in NC (in Community Alerts) that has posted their endorsements for the upcoming election (NC only of course, check with your local rights groups for races in your area).  There are a couple that I do not agree with but that is because they ones in question are so corrupt that I could never pull a lever for them.
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nonie

I'm all for voting, but man, I live in Ohio.  I personally know that no one counts our votes, and if they do, they're just making stuff up, not actually counting what's there.  In every Democratic majority district, the number of voting machines to voters was so low I had to wait 4 hours to vote in the last election, and my wait wasn't even close to the longest.  They had 2 machines for a district that should have had 5 or 6, and one of them was "broken."  They also made me fill out a paper ballot because they claimed my registration wasn't correct ( I registered when I got my Ohio ID, which has all the correct info on it so how could it be wrong?), and I saw them give the paper ballots to several other non-whites while I was there, and I know the paper and absentee ballots were never counted.  Someone posted a sign outside a Democratic majority voting place that said that due to the large voter turnout, Republicans were to vote on the election day and Democrats should return the next day to vote (obviously fake, but how many people were tricked by it?).  All over the Ohio State campus, which is probably the most liberal area in all of Ohio, voting machines were too few, and people were waiting the entire day to vote.  Class turnout was so low the teachers didn't actually give class that day, because everyone was missing class waiting to vote.  All the higher income and older areas of the city had voting machines to spare.  A Republican district that had only 500 residents reported over 2,000 votes for Bush.

And look at Florida in the previous election.

Voting doesn't matter.  The regime already controls vote counting, or lack thereof, in the swing states, if not elsewhere.  They block low income and non-white people from voting or getting counted, and make up rich white Republicans where they don't even exist.  With the power of the Presidency on the line, how on earth could someone NOT expect someone to try to falsify the voting process?

This election period the Democratic party is sending out absentee registration everywhere, we're supposed to "send a message" to the corrupt Republicans in power by voting absentee, but if the absentee ballots weren't counted last time, how is that going to help anything at all?  I'm terrified I'll be uncounted again, and feel pretty much completely powerless to do anything about it...  But I'm still going to vote.
Posted on: October 18, 2006, 12:35:51 PM
Oh, and this is interesting:  On the local ballot there are two anti-smoking bills.  One is a ban on smoking indoors in all of  of Ohio.  The other, which is called "Smoke Less Ohio" is funded by tobacco companies and starts out talking about a smoking ban in some places like restaurants that make less than 40% of their income from alcohol, but goes on to list tons of places where it wouldn't be banned, and hides the fact that it's a constitutional ammendment.  People are going to blindly vote for both, and in doing so, the second one renders the universal ban moot by constitutionally protecting a long list of places people CAN smoke so that no other anti-smoking bills can go through.

Stuff is getting too complicated for people to follow, and they are being conditioned to not investigate.  I HATE politics in this country.  I am so filled with impotent despair :(
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cindianna_jones

We have a proposition here in California which places a $2 tax on every pack of smokes.  The collected funds will go to a number of places with a large chunk slated for education. None of it will go to treat smoking related illnesses.

I have a problem with sin taxes.  If it is legal to smoke, let them do it.  I have no problem with keeping tobacco smoke out of public places.  I have no problem in collecting funds to pay for smoking related health issues.  But we depend on sin taxes to fund public education? Yup.  Let's get the poor people addicted to smokes.  Then we'll tax them to death.  That's what we do.

I'm thinking that if this thing passes, we will soon see illegal cigs making their way into the state.  The new contraband will be tobacco products.  A new war on drugs is coming.

Cindi
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nonie

Quote from: Cindianna_Jones on October 18, 2006, 07:01:31 PM
We have a proposition here in California which places a $2 tax on every pack of smokes.  The collected funds will go to a number of places with a large chunk slated for education. None of it will go to treat smoking related illnesses.

I have a problem with sin taxes.  If it is legal to smoke, let them do it.  I have no problem with keeping tobacco smoke out of public places.  I have no problem in collecting funds to pay for smoking related health issues.  But we depend on sin taxes to fund public education? Yup.  Let's get the poor people addicted to smokes.  Then we'll tax them to death.  That's what we do.

I'm thinking that if this thing passes, we will soon see illegal cigs making their way into the state.  The new contraband will be tobacco products.  A new war on drugs is coming.

Cindi

The thing about sin tax is that these activities are a choice.  It's true that you can become very addicted to it, but it's something that people do even though they know it's harmful to their health.  So I don't think the money generated from it should to go health issues related to the use of it.  I'm all for sin tax supporting education, cuz hardly anything else does and I think every penny the government can squeeze out of anyone needs to go to education - but it needs to go to EVERYONE's education.  I don't think some school districts should get more money than others, they need to be 100% equal so that we don't raise a new generation of undereducated poor people to be easily swayed by advertizing and get addicted to stuff that's bad for them and pay sin tax again.  And they need to make Nicorette and other quit-smoking products not so freakin expensive.  $30 a box?  Now that is discriminatory pricing.  Like they don't want the poor to stop smoking.  And they don't because the sooner the poorest folks die the better as far as those in power are concerned.
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Hazumu

LOTTERY = Tax on people who are bad at math.

California is already 'funding' education through the state lottery, where it used to be 37 cents of every dollar went to education.

And as the lotto money flowed in, politicians started de-contributing from the general fund to education.  The lotto money became pretty much instead of, not in addition to.

But where there's a huge fund, there's a way to steal it.  "Enron" has been happening for years in different ways.  It's just that now those who are tapped into the cashflow don't give a damn about keeping the goose alive -- just hack it open, get all the golden eggs, and leave the bloody carcass for the losers to fight over.  I've got mine, Jack.

I don't understand this 'morality' that's taken over that says individuals don't matter.  If they did, the tax on smokes would go to defray the cost of healthcare for smokers to society.

Where is all this going?

Karen
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cindianna_jones

Quote from: Karen on October 18, 2006, 08:32:18 PM
LOTTERY = Tax on people who are bad at math.

Where is all this going?

Karen

I believe that most of the lottery funds comes from the poorest in our CA society.  It is a tax on the poor as is most sin taxes.  The bottom line is that we impose taxes on the poor and they see little in return for the money that they contribute.  It does seem all twisted.

Cindi
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Satin

Quote from: Karen on October 18, 2006, 08:32:18 PM
...And as the lotto money flowed in, politicians started de-contributing from the general fund to education....

It sounds to me as if CA has been studying Louisiana's ways.  Our state government did the same.  For your sake, I hope they don't copy some of the other things that make our state government (in)famous.

Quote from: Mikko on October 18, 2006, 12:45:52 PM
...Stuff is getting too complicated for people to follow, and they are being conditioned to not investigate.  I HATE politics in this country.  I am so filled with impotent despair :(

Mikko, it's terrible that you and countless others feel this way.  If you can afford the time, working at the polls is a good way to have an impact and hopefully feel better about the process.  Many states are desperate for workers and provide training up to the week before election day.  You can also volunteer to be a poll watcher for your party which can also have a direct bearing on the process.  I've done both in the past and felt it was a gratifying experience.

Satin
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andy6432668

Lotto is a tax on the stupid !
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RebeccaFog


"Facism anyone?"


No thanks, I've had my fill.
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nancyj

Quote from: LostInTime on October 17, 2006, 01:52:26 PM
That being said, I do not believe we are seeing echoes of Nazi Germany and those who throw the term Nazi about loosely only diminishes the history attached to it.  We still can make a difference and should do so every chance we get.  Pull the levers [etc etc... ]

1) My BS filter is aroused whenever I hear/see the phrase 'that [being] said'.
2) One small Noto Bene: Adolf Hitler was voted into office.

Quote from: Rana on October 14, 2006, 06:08:38 AM
  I can remember 9/11. 


right.
Some observations - EG:

That Jonathan Bush's Riggs Bank has been found guilty of laundering terrorist funds and fined a US-record $25 million must embarrass his nephew George, but it's still no justification for leaping to paranoid conclusions.

That George Bush's brother Marvin sat on the board of the Kuwaiti-owned company which provided electronic security to the World Trade Centre, Dulles Airport and United Airlines means nothing more than you must admit those Bush boys have done alright for themselves.

That George Bush found success as a businessman only after the investment of Osama's brother Salem and reputed al Qaeda financier Khalid bin Mahfouz is just one of those things - one of those crazy things.

That Osama bin Laden is known to have been an asset of US foreign policy in no way implies he still is.

That al Qaeda was active in the Balkan conflict, fighting on the same side as the US as recently as 1999, while the US protected its cells, is merely one of history's little aberrations.

The claims of Michael Springman, State Department veteran of the Jeddah visa bureau, that the CIA ran the office and issued visas to al Qaeda members so they could receive training in the United States, sound like the sour grapes of someone who was fired for making such wild accusations.

That one of George Bush's first acts as President, in January 2001, was to end the two-year deployment of attack submarines which were positioned within striking distance of al Qaeda's Afghanistan camps, even as the group's guilt for the Cole bombing was established, proves that a transition from one administration to the next is never an easy task.

That so many influential figures in and close to the Bush White House had expressed, just a year before the attacks, the need for a "new Pearl Harbor" before their militarist ambitions could be fulfilled, demonstrates nothing more than the accidental virtue of being in the right place at the right time.

That the company PTECH, founded by a Saudi financier placed on America's Terrorist Watch List in October 2001, had access to the FAA's entire computer system for two years before the 9/11 attack, means he must not have been such a threat after all.

That whistleblower Indira Singh was told to keep her mouth shut and forget what she learned when she took her concerns about PTECH to her employers and federal authorities, suggests she lacked the big picture. (And that the Chief Auditor for JP Morgan Chase told Singh repeatedly, as she answered questions about who supplied her with what information, that "that person should be killed," suggests he should take an anger management seminar.)

That on May 8, 2001, Dick Cheney took upon himself the job of co-ordinating a response to domestic terror attacks even as he was crafting the administration's energy policy which bore implications for America's military, circumventing the established infrastructure and ignoring the recommendations of the Hart-Rudman report, merely shows the VP to be someone who finds it hard to delegate.

That the standing order which covered the shooting down of hijacked aircraft was altered on June 1, 2001, taking discretion away from field commanders and placing it solely in the hands of the Secretary of Defense, is simply poor planning and unfortunate timing. (Fortunately the error has been corrected, as the order was rescinded shortly after 9/11.)

That in the weeks before 9/11, FBI agent Colleen Rowley found her investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui so perversely thwarted that her colleagues joked that bin Laden had a mole at the FBI, proves the stress-relieving virtue of humour in the workplace.

That Dave Frasca of the FBI's Radical Fundamentalist Unit received a promotion after quashing multiple, urgent requests for investigations into al Qaeda assets training at flight schools in the summer of 2001 does appear on the surface odd, but undoubtedly there's a good reason for it, quite possibly classified.

That FBI informant Randy Glass, working an undercover sting, was told by Pakistani intelligence operatives that the World Trade Center towers were coming down, and that his repeated warnings which continued until weeks before the attacks, including the mention of planes used as weapons, were ignored by federal authorities, is simply one of the many "What Ifs" of that tragic day.

That over the summer of 2001 Washington received many urgent, senior-level warnings from foreign intelligence agencies and governments - including those of Germany, France, Great Britain, Russia, Egypt, Israel, Morocco, Afghanistan and others - of impending terror attacks using hijacked aircraft and did nothing, demonstrates the pressing need for a new Intelligence Czar.

That John Ashcroft stopped flying commercial aircraft in July 2001 on account of security considerations had nothing to do with warnings regarding September 11, because he said so to the 9/11 Commission.

That former lead counsel for the House David Schippers says he'd taken to John Ashcroft's office specific warnings he'd learned from FBI agents in New York of an impending attack – even naming the proposed dates, names of the hijackers and the targets – and that the investigations had been stymied and the agents threatened, proves nothing but David Schipper's pathetic need for attention.

That Garth Nicolson received two warnings from contacts in the intelligence community and one from a North African head of state, which included specific site, date and source of the attacks, and passed the information to the Defense Department and the National Security Council to evidently no effect, clearly amounts to nothing, since virtually nobody has ever heard of him.


That FBI Special Investigator Robert Wright claims that agents assigned to intelligence operations actually protect terrorists from investigation and prosecution, that the FBI shut down his probe into terrorist training camps, and that he was removed from a money-laundering case that had a direct link to terrorism, sounds like yet more sour grapes from a disgruntled employee.

That George Bush had plans to invade Afghanistan on his desk before 9/11 demonstrates only the value of being prepared.

The suggestion that securing a pipeline across Afghanistan figured into the White House's calculations is as ludicrous as the assertion that oil played a part in determining war in Iraq.

(ad absurdum)

Right?

Njc
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cindianna_jones

QuoteThat being said, I do not believe we are seeing echoes of Nazi Germany and those who throw the term Nazi about loosely only diminishes the history attached to it.  We still can make a difference and should do so every chance we get.  Pull the levers [etc etc... ]

- Hitler was appointed to lead the nation. He was not elected to that position.
- The supreme court mandated that Bush had won the election.

- Hitler started to disband civil rights from the inception of his leadership.
- Bush overstepped the surveillance laws by tapping phone lines without court approval. There was some attention when the announcement came that our government was also looking at bank records.  Barely a mention was made in the press when we discoverd that our government is now looking at our mail.

- Hitler invented a reason to invade Poland.
- Bush invented a reason to invade Iraq.

- Hitler killed over 7 million civilians.
- I suppose that we aren't quite there yet.  But numbers are estimated at over half a million.

- In Germany, you could be arrested and held without cause.
- Guess what.

There are too many other parallels to mention.  The fact is that zealots led Germany and zealots now lead our nation. No, we aren't a whole lot different than the "enemy" we now face.

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

Echos of Nazi Germany? Oh yea. Echos of Stalin?  Oh yea. Our constitution is hanging by a few threads and some duct tape people. It really is.  And if you doubt it, take a look at this:


Joan Bokaer speaking on "Are We Becoming a Theocracy?"

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-6082626617349511699

Now if you don't think that they are working to throw out the constitution, I would welcome your comments as they relate to this video.  All Joan Bokaer shows us is those things that those in power have written and published. This is not a "conspiracy theory". It's a real consipiracy. Planned this way? I don't know. But it is real and it is happening.  Don't believe me? Wait till you go for your Real ID.

They want another governmnet. And they might just get it unless we do something.

Cindi
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