Living In Stealth - Does It Hurt Us?

[brina]

Hiee,

  This thread has if nothing else shown that eveyone has a major concern about being outted as a Transexual or having had a transexual past. Those who pass well feel as though they would be doing themselves and their (loved ones?) a disservice by being out in the open. There also seems to be an admission that thier lives have been compromised to one degree or another by living stealth.
  I say once again that until enough T's get fed up enough and say to society that they are no longer going to be bullied into having to live this way or that nothing will change. Whether you are transexual or consider yourself to have a transexual past you should not feel as though it is something that NEEDS to be hidden. As long as that skeleton is hidden in the closet, it can be pulled out by any unscroupulous person and used against you!

Byee,
  Brina

[Julie Marie]

What about being total stealth then being outed or discovered. The people around you could feel like you lied to them or feel you were hiding the truth of who you are. They may wonder what else you have been hiding in your life. Your spouse or bf or gf may get violent with you as well. I dont know if it is really possible to live in stealth forever safely. Yet outing yourself may lend to you being single anyhow. Its just a huge mess.

Lori, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.  Some of us are willing to risk the chance of being outed to live a life in peace, some not.  It's a personal decision best left unquestioned unless asked.  My decision at this point is not to live in stealth, if it's even possible.  There are many reasons I have made that choice but it's just that, my choice.

Still I truly believe in fighting the negative stigma.  Today I wondered it this may one day lead to being openly active.  I really admire those who are and find myself drawn to them.  It's possible I could gain the courage to be like them through contact with them.  When I'm passionate about something I feel alive.  As I get closer to retirement I find myself fearing just getting old and dying.  Erasing the negative stigma is something I am passionate about and becoming openly active would keep me feeling alive as my life draws to a close.  It's something I am considering more and more seriously every day.

Julie

[Stormy Weather]

I say once again that until enough T's get fed up enough and say to society that they are no longer going to be bullied into having to live this way or that nothing will change.

Admirable idealism but that's just not the way things work.

Very early in my transition, while standing on a train platform, I was spat at by a man who then said to me 'I know what you are'.

People like this are precisely the reason why many of us want to live normally, whatever your definition of 'normal' is. I didn't transition to become a transsexual. To me that phrase denotes a process, a means to an end, not a fixed identity or a label I wish to publicly bear.

[tinkerbell]

Hiee,

   Whether you are transexual or consider yourself to have a transexual past you should not feel as though it is something that NEEDS to be hidden.

Personally,  I don't think I have the need to advertise my transsexuality to anyone, for this is just a part of my medical history and does not make me who I am.  To me, being transsexual is just like having been born with a cleft palate or six toes in one foot, a mere birth defect.  I would certainly not tell anyone about these birth defects either.  The only difference with transsexualism is that the birth defect is between people's legs, but IMO this does not make it so significant that I feel obligated to announce it to the world. 

As long as that skeleton is hidden in the closet, it can be pulled out by any unscroupulous person and used against you!

I agree, but I'm sure that if this moment arrives, I'd deal with it accordingly then.  The fear of being discovered is not going to make me proclaim my transsexuality to everyone I know, for It'd do more harm than good in my case.


tinkerbell

[Lori]

What about being total stealth then being outed or discovered. The people around you could feel like you lied to them or feel you were hiding the truth of who you are. They may wonder what else you have been hiding in your life. Your spouse or bf or gf may get violent with you as well. I dont know if it is really possible to live in stealth forever safely. Yet outing yourself may lend to you being single anyhow. Its just a huge mess.

Lori, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.  Some of us are willing to risk the chance of being outed to live a life in peace, some not.  It's a personal decision best left unquestioned unless asked.  My decision at this point is not to live in stealth, if it's even possible.  There are many reasons I have made that choice but it's just that, my choice.

Still I truly believe in fighting the negative stigma.  Today I wondered it this may one day lead to being openly active.  I really admire those who are and find myself drawn to them.  It's possible I could gain the courage to be like them through contact with them.  When I'm passionate about something I feel alive.  As I get closer to retirement I find myself fearing just getting old and dying.  Erasing the negative stigma is something I am passionate about and becoming openly active would keep me feeling alive as my life draws to a close.  It's something I am considering more and more seriously every day.

Julie

It was more of a rhetorical statement than a personal opinion. That is why I used words such as may, and could, and dont' know if it is possilble. Until you are fully transitioned and living your life, it just seems like a conundrum..to me. It could go either way. Society may stomp your guts out and leave you in a dumpster or you may find the courage to stand up and fight for your rights then get thrown into the dumpster. Or you may just change views of those you touch and things could be alright. With no federal laws to protect you its a risky proposition to impose your views on a society that views TS as something different.

[Kate]

I say once again that until enough T's get fed up enough and say to society that they are no longer going to be bullied into having to live this way or that nothing will change.

True, but you know how that goes: organize a group protest, and everyone will accuse us forcing our "agenda" down their throats. There was a transsexual teacher in NJ who created quite a stir last year when she wanted to teach again as a woman. All kinds of groups showed up at the meeting to support her. And many in the community didn't react so well, seeing it as a political agenda, an attempt to "convert" people and.. oh no... suggest that TSism is "OK" somehow. They only saw the ISSUE, and not the person.

The same teacher attended a similar meeting months later - alone this time. And no one batted an eye. No outrage. No nasty comments. It was a non-event.

Whether you are transexual or consider yourself to have a transexual past you should not feel as though it is something that NEEDS to be hidden.

Quite so. I've been drafting a number of letters recently... to my doctor, employer, friends... and in every case, I barely get two sentences into it before I find myself justifying and apologizing for how I feel, and what I need to do. I spend so much time explaining what I'm NOT, there's little space left for what I AM. And that's what's frustrating. Mention you're TS to someone, and they instantly assume all these way-wrong associations. It's not that I mind associating with TSs, be they ugly, beautiful, passable, or not... but I find myself spending so much time explaining that it's NOT about the clothes, erotic thrills, wanting to attract straight men, etc. - that I must admit I'm scared to get beat up (once I finish transitioning) because of that.

And not that people who DO care about those things deserve to get beat up EITHER... but darn it, at least hate me for who *I* am if you must hate me at all. I mean OK, here's my honestly: I'm NOT ashamed to be TS. If I could walk into a store, being totally unpassable, and yet everyone KNEW I was TS and not <insert all the other TG options>, I could handle that. Even the scorn. But what makes me cringe in shame and embarassment, right or wrong, is knowing they'll think I'm a CDr or TV. Not that there's anything WRONG with being a CDr or TV, but darn it, it's not ME.

I know, I'm shallow and insecure and have a few issues to figure out...

[brina]

Hiee Tink,

 I don't 'ALWAYS' go around proclaiming my transexuality either, but I do on occassions and not just special events.

Tink quoted:
The fear of being discovered is not going to make me proclaim my transsexuality to everyone I know, for It'd do more harm than good in my case.
:end quote

 And that is the delemma. No one wants to be the first one to be shot and killed so to speak. For all of you living in stealth I can appreciate the reasons why, I just don't agree with them. The sooner society is made aware that transexualism is nothing more then a medical problem that can be corrected and that we are normal every day productive citizens the better.

Byee,
 Brina

PS I am fairly old and as much as I would want an LTR with a man, I'm not sure its likely to happen. That being said, if it did happen, and he wanted me to be stealth and live my life as though I were a natal woman, I am not sure I could as for me it would be a major lie about my very being.

[tinkerbell]

                                  


                            Please take me....

                                  


                              thank you!



                              tinkerbell

[brina]

Hiee Kate,

  The biggest dis-service done to the transexual community has been perpetrated by the pychs when they in all thier infinite wisdom decided to dump us in the Transgendered Pot. We are after all the only ones in this group who identify as the opposite gender to which we were assigned at birth. Its pure idiocy to me. Perhaps it was done to intentionally marginalize us as a group. I think a great deal of my pychiatrist as an individual but his proffesion as a whole in respect to transexuals sux.

Byee,
  Brina
Posted on: 2006-11-25, 20:30:45

                                  


                            Please take me....

                                  


                              thank you!

ROFLMAO your timing is impeccable dear Tinkerbell
Hugs,
  Brina



                              tinkerbell

[Lori]

Hiee Kate,

  The biggest dis-service done to the transexual community has been perpetrated by the pychs when they in all thier infinite wisdom decided to dump us in the Transgendered Pot. We are after all the only ones in this group who identify as the opposite gender to which we were assigned at birth. Its pure idiocy to me. Perhaps it was done to intentionally marginalize us as a group. I think a great deal of my pychiatrist as an individual but his proffesion as a whole in respect to transexuals sux.

Byee,
  Brina

Don't forget the church and all of its affiliates and the hatred and lies they preach about those that are different.

[cindianna_jones]

As a bit of a twist on this conversation, I would like to point out that I have "outed" myself in a big way on the internet and in print.  Most of you know that I have a book of my memoirs in print.  I've also been very open on the internet... .not only here but in several blogs which are read by thousands of people every day.  The topics I discuss are not always about TSism.  They cover a variety of topics from religion to personal rights and freedoms.  I have several regular readers and I receive many personal emails with questions.  I know that publicly, I am putting a face on the issues we all confront daily.  At least a small part of society is learning that "Cindi, the TS" is a real person.

This did not evolve from a need that has built over many years living in stealth.  It came from a sincere desire to help others.

Cindi

[Sheila]

I have been an activist for transgender people for about 5 years now. I what I have seen over the years has been acceptance from a major part of society. We are gaining more acceptance at a faster pace than the Gay community has in over 20 or 30 years. Just think that about 20 years ago, who would have thought that the trans population would have come out as much as we have. When I first started in this about 5 years ago, I thought maybe there were about 100 trans people in the Eugene/Springfield area and that there weren't that many who have transtitioned. Well, I was wrong on the count, I don't know how many there are but what I do know there are more than a 100 trans people in this area. We have a population of about 200,000 in the area. I have met with a lot of girls and guys who are fully transitioned and are in different degrees of stealth. I know of a couple who have done documentaries on TV. What believe is that by the time the kids that are in college now reach my age 57, that transgender will no longer be a problem. We will be accepted and that there will be no need for protection as we will be accepted as people who have had a decision made for them corrected. I believe that at that time the insurance companies will be paying for our surgeries (GRS) to make us right. I don't think they will be paying for FFS as that would be cosmetic. We will be accepted so there will be no passing. Right now, I go through life passing if you call it that, but just living my life as a woman and everyone accepts me. I do not deny myself nor do I make a big deal out of it. I don't send out the pink triangle flag everytime I meet someone. I have conquored my fear and that was all it was. It was the boogie man under the bed. There still is some ignorance in this world and we still have a lot to do, but hiding under the covers is not a way to educate people. I do respect some of your feelings and that you need  to be stealth for certain reasons, but as someone else has said, but your words and actions anyway you can, just as long as you feel comfortable doing it. I have said this before, I have been out and I don't hide my TS'ism at all, but have found that I have gone stealth without even trying. People accept me for who I am.
Sheila

[Ricki]

I read all this (btw took like 40 minutes... )
And i only can add what i think or feel.
I am not transitioning but that somehow to me does not mean i am in stealth either way.  I have not dramatically changed my looks (i do shave my legs during times of the year and stuff and trim my eyebrows, etc..) BUT..
The girl inside me has never not been the girl inside me?  People cannot see it cause they identify with what you look like on the outside?
Whether i was ugly or pretty as a transitioned woman i would present that.  Right now i present a male form so people assume i am male! Yuck!
but that's a choice i made thus far but none of it means i am not a girl...
I generally do not feed much into the whole thing i work to impress myself not others.  I am not transitioning not because i think people would judge me or not but becasue i am my worst critic and i am not sure my changes would please ME!
I have another thought?
what if (assuming first they did not acknowledge they were transsexual or not)a natal man, a good looking one to boot appeared in a mans nice suit and reperesnted the ts community and a natal woman appearing as a nicely dressed woman represented the group?  I'm not saying i want this i am thinking it outloud to wonder what the publics opinions would be?
would the public at a symposium after hearing this "good looking guy guy and pretty girl girl" talking on gender issues- say oh how gross they are transsexuals, agghhhh
and judge them and categorize them?  but if the woman and man identified them as natal saying they are just in support of the ts/is, etc.. movement would they be criticized as harshly then?
I dunno, poeple are awful and they see what they want to see and not always what is really there?
This post was good and had some great moments and i learned from them!
Thanks
Ricki

[Melissa]

I've been drafting a number of letters recently... to my doctor, employer, friends... and in every case, I barely get two sentences into it before I find myself justifying and apologizing for how I feel, and what I need to do. I spend so much time explaining what I'm NOT, there's little space left for what I AM.

Simple, what you are is a person with a female identity.  It's that simple.

Melissa

[Kate]

Simple, what you are is a person with a female identity.  It's that simple.

It's sure clear and simple for us, but the civilians out there can't seem to grasp or even allow anything outside of their personal realm of experience as being valid. They instinctively seem to fill their voids of ignorance and lack of knowledge with prejudice and bigotry, just to shore up the leaky holes in their personal, though shared, reality.

God forbid they actually, you know, EDUCATE themselves, lol...

Grrr, I'm getting bitter and sarcastic. Time for sleepy bye methinks...

[Julie Marie]

I've been drafting a number of letters recently... to my doctor, employer, friends... and in every case, I barely get two sentences into it before I find myself justifying and apologizing for how I feel, and what I need to do. I spend so much time explaining what I'm NOT, there's little space left for what I AM.

Simple, what you are is a person with a female identity.  It's that simple.

Melissa

I agree Melissa, it is pretty simple... for us.  We are very well educated in transgender issues.  Compared to the general public we all have at least one PhD.  And we'd like to teach the general public.  But will they sign up for the course?

I don't like being militaristic but there's something telling me we have to get in their face once in a while.  Sitting back and accepting the life they have tried to shove down our throats certainly isn't doing much to educate them.  I keep reading about the pain, the fear, the anxiety, the anguish we have to go through (and I have lived much of that myself) and I want to do something to stop it.  I can be a bull if you wave that red cape in front of me and the treatment of transgender people is a red cape to me.

We talk about the unfair treatment we get in society.  We talk about how we need change.  But all too often when faced with the prejudice and intolerance we either try to justify our existence or simply accept the treatment as part of being TG.  As long as we are willing participants in this discrimination, and our lack of protest is seen as just that, we will have to live with it.

I walked into Target yesterday to buy some things.  It was the typical pre-Christmas crowd, packed.  At first I found myself thinking "I hope nobody notices me."  Then I thought "What the hell are you so afraid of?"  I picked up my head, put a smile on my face and shopped just like any other woman would.  I made eye contact freely and without fear.  No one seemed to care.  The only time I felt snubbed was when checking out at the register.  I made a humorous comment but the cashier didn't even look up or acknowledge me.  I thought "So this might be a little weird to her.  That's okay."  I paid for the items and she handed me the receipt with a "Thank you.  Come again" and a smile on her face.  When I heard her speak I knew why she ignored me.  She was deaf.  I walked out laughing at myself for jumping to conclusions. 

We all have fears.  Those fears are the result of living in a society that has no idea who we are.  We can try to apologetically justify why we are the way we are or just say, "Hey, this is the way I was born" and get on with life.  I used to do the former.  I'm finding the latter works better.

Julie

[Lori]

Julie I think the key you found in not trying to overdo things is going to be at the top of my list. I think we try too hard and put on to much makeup at first, wear the skirts and heels and look unnatural. I don't know about others but I am learnig a ton of stuff from you, including your attitude. Jeans and T-shirts seem to be the going trend of dress here lately and women seem to be very casual. Seems like a great time to transition, wouldnt be much different from what I wear now.

[Melissa]

Well the way I look at it is I am walking around wearing my hair how I want to, putting on makeup because I choose to and wearing clothes that I like.  To people I appear female and I am happy with that.  Regardless of gender, I am simply a person that chooses to look that way.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to look that way.  I don't go around telling people I am female and demanding they treat me like one.  I am just going about my daily business.  There is absolutely no need to justify why other than because I want to.  So I feel absolutely no shame since I am in this mindset.  If I don't like how certain people react to how I choose to live then I have the choice to not waste my time being around them.

As for unfair treatment in general society, at this point, I can't recall ever experiencing this.

Melissa

[Kate]

As for unfair treatment in general society, at this point, I can't recall ever remember experiencing this.

Hmmm, ya know, wouldn't it be ironic...

I've spent so much time here lately ranting and accusing "society" of being a bunch of ignorant, judgemental ninkinoops, thinking all sorts of mean things about me before even getting to KNOW me.

It should be noted that I've never, ever actually GONE anywhere "enfemme." Maybe *I* am the judgemental ninkinpoop, demonizing THEM before even giving them a chance. Hmmm.

I'm probably just so insecure and terrified that I'm already demonizing them in advance, blaming THEM for "making" me go to such extraordinary lengths as facial surgery and whatnot just to fit in seamlessly. And OK, much of that is for ME, for ME to be comfortable with myself even OUTSIDE of the public eye.

But STILL. I read posts such as Julie's and MEW's just going out and doing their business, and I'm just overwhelmed with both jealousy AND admiration.

[Melissa]

But STILL. I read posts such as Julie's and MEW's just going out and doing their business, and I'm just overwhelmed with both jealousy AND admiration.

Aww Kate.  You'll get there eventually.

Melissa