Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

Dating and relationships.

Started by Brynn, December 06, 2009, 01:00:16 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Brynn

How do you guys find your way around the dating scene? I've only ever really had the one relationship that ended about two months ago when I came out to her, so I haven't really had the chance to find my niche in the dating scene. Most of the people I hang around with are lesbians, and I sure as hell don't want anyone to go out with me thinking or reading me as just butch. I've already decided whenever I get into my next relationship, I'm going to be honest about things from the start...

But how do you manage? How do you find people to date or start a possible serious relationship with?
  •  

Lachlann

Pre-T or on T? Just curious.

I'm not bothering until I'm on T.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
  •  

Alex_C

I don't honestly know .... I've got so much going on in my life that I am not looking, if I find someone I guess I'll just try my best to be a good boyfriend.
  •  

Arch

I'm not looking right now because I have a lot going on. But for the past several months, I've been slowly building up friendships in a gay men's group that I belong to. And I'm putting out feelers on a Yahoo group of queer people who are interested in one of my favorite subjects/hobbies.

I hope that I'll meet more people through these people. Once my circle of acquaintances widens, maybe I'll run into someone I'm interested in who is also interested in me.

I have no idea how I'll handle the situation if I do find someone like that. Guess I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it.

I've never really dated and tend to have an instant attraction that quickly develops into a long-term relationship. I worry that I'll find a gay guy I really fall for who won't see me as a genuine guy. So I'll need a thick skin. I think a lot of us need to develop that but still maintain permeability.

I don't suppose this helps you. Are you primarily looking for straight women now? I hear that a few lesbians are okay with transmen, but I don't know how these lesbians define the relationship or perceive the transman. I suppose there's a lot of variation.

I imagine you could meet women by getting involved in groups of people who share your interests. Sooner or later, you're bound to find someone who is interested in you. Then you can cross the trans bridge when you come to it.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
  •  

sneakersjay

Pre-T: didn't bother.

Post-Passing and top surgery: tried but still too soon (for me).

Now I'm 1 yr post top surgery and nearly 18months on T:  getting closer but planning lower surgery in 2010, so likely not until after that has healed well.

Have dabbled in some online stuff, have said it's a strictly online thing with  no intentions of taking to real life, has been fun except the one woman who has fallen for me hard despite saying no to long distance/real life.  So that's my story.

I'm also contemplating a move in the next year or so, which compounds things.


Jay


  •  

Carson

I was lucky because I have been with my girlfriend since before I came out as trans and so far she has stuck with me and had very few issues. We will see how me going on T affects our relationship but so far everything has been good. I honestly can't say that I would date anyone while I was transitioning if I wasn't already with someone.
Call me a cheat but I make my own fate.

http://www.formspring.me/carson1234
  •  

Brynn

Quote from: Lachlann on December 06, 2009, 01:07:30 AM
Pre-T or on T? Just curious.

I'm not bothering until I'm on T.
Either, but I guess I'm even more interested in pre-T because I've got no plans to start T anytime soon.

Post Merge: December 06, 2009, 06:05:05 PM

Quote from: Arch on December 06, 2009, 04:33:30 AMI don't suppose this helps you. Are you primarily looking for straight women now? I hear that a few lesbians are okay with transmen, but I don't know how these lesbians define the relationship or perceive the transman. I suppose there's a lot of variation.

I imagine you could meet women by getting involved in groups of people who share your interests. Sooner or later, you're bound to find someone who is interested in you. Then you can cross the trans bridge when you come to it.
I'm not sure what I'm primarily interested in. I have a friend I'm interested in, but there's no interest in return. She does identify as lesbian, but she's not against the idea of being with a guy or transman or anything. She's just only been attracted to females before. *sigh* It sucks, though.

I'm not sure what kinds of groups to get involved in, though. I'm already very involved in the LGBTQIS group on campus -- treasurer of it, in fact. The people in it are amazing, and most of my friends are in it.

What do you mean about crossing the trans bridge when I get to it? I want to be open about that from the beginning of any potential relationship... I don't want to be read as a butch lesbian, and whatever I actually identity as, it's a pretty big part of who I am. So...
  •  

Chamillion

well for a while I didn't worry about it, cos when I started T I was with my gf who's bi and wanted to stay w/ me.  but we broke up about a month ago, and I found out this straight girl I've been hangin out with has had a crush on me for a while even though she knew I was trans. so we've been hooking up/hanging out but I don't plan on dating her.  basically what I'm trying to say is just live your life and let things happen.  I thought the whole "some straight girls are cool w/ it" thing was just to make us feel better but it's true.  you don't have to go out of your way to find girls who will be open to dating you.
;D
  •  

Arch

Quote from: Brynn on December 06, 2009, 06:00:23 PM
What do you mean about crossing the trans bridge when I get to it? I want to be open about that from the beginning of any potential relationship... I don't want to be read as a butch lesbian, and whatever I actually identity as, it's a pretty big part of who I am. So...

I don't go around advertising that I was/am trans. I am post-top-surgery and have been on T for about ten months. Nobody has read me as female since before my surgery, so all the gay men I'm meeting know nothing about my past life when I was living as female. When I meet a new guy, I don't stick my hand out and say, "Hi, I'm Arch, and I was born in a female body." So if I do meet a guy and there's a mutual attraction, I'll have to decide exactly when to bring up the subject of my body. I don't plan to jump into bed with anyone right away, and I don't see any reason to tell him about myself before it looks like things might be headed in that direction. If I think he's relationship material, only then will I divulge.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
  •  

Lachlann

Quote from: Chamillion on December 06, 2009, 07:04:56 PM
well for a while I didn't worry about it, cos when I started T I was with my gf who's bi and wanted to stay w/ me.  but we broke up about a month ago, and I found out this straight girl I've been hangin out with has had a crush on me for a while even though she knew I was trans. so we've been hooking up/hanging out but I don't plan on dating her.  basically what I'm trying to say is just live your life and let things happen.  I thought the whole "some straight girls are cool w/ it" thing was just to make us feel better but it's true.  you don't have to go out of your way to find girls who will be open to dating you.
This right here ^

I was dating a pansexual, eventually we broke up for other reasons. But there are straight girls out there who are cool with it and I'm just going to sort things out before jumping into a relationship again.
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
  •  

Wolf Man

Personally, I'm in a relationship and my girlfriend has no feel for gender. You are who you are and it's your choice to make. If she's attracted, then she's attracted and she'll pursue. So things are well for me. Some girls are like that. If you can find one of them, then I think you'll be well off too.

What I want to say to you, however, is that you really should just get out there and let things happen. Take interest in those you want and see how things go. I would do that and if I did I wouldn't bring up being trans. That is something you should leave for when you feel that you want the relationship to go farther and she wants it t ogo farther. Then you can talk over you being trans. You need to let those you are with accept you as male at first, so you can make them see that there really is no difference between you and a biomale.

That's just how I would approach the whole situation. If it feels too much like lying, then oh well, try your way. I'm just trying to say that it isn't really lying, because you are a man. Whether or not your genitals say so.
I'll be there someday, I can go the distance
I will find my way, If I can be strong
I know every mile, Will be worth my while

When I go the distance, I'll be right where I belong
  •  

Brynn

I don't care for my gender identity to screw up another relationship though. My ex broke up with me at least halfway because of how I identify. So I want someone to accept me 100% as I am from the beginning. It's not like I'm going to put myself out there as transgender in an unsafe situation. Atm, my dating pool is pretty much limited to people from the LGBTQIS group I'm involved in on campus. And we've been having a lot of gender talks and whatnot, so it's not like it'd be way out in left field for me to bring my gender identity up.

I appreciate the advice, guys. But especially because I'm still exploring my gender identity, being trans is too big a part of who I am for me to just let people assume I'm a bioguy. I'll be careful, though.
  •  

notyouraverageguy

I've known a few lesbians that didn't mind dating transguys.
Gender expression is NOT gender identity.

Defective Catastrophe.
  •  

LordKAT

Quote from: ccc on December 08, 2009, 01:01:15 AM
I've known a few lesbians that didn't mind dating transguys.

me too. Lesbian is not what I want tho.
  •  

Arch

Quote from: LordKAT on December 08, 2009, 01:28:11 AM
me too. Lesbian is not what I want tho.

Sort of like my reservations about staying with my straight partner...but before I could decide what to do, he broke up with me. Heh.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
  •  

tekla

Assuming that you are looking for relationship material, and not just hot casual sex - because that's a whole other set of rules, cause its a whole other set of girls - ...

The male is the predator, the female is the prey.  That - if not the natural - is the social order of 'dating' in the modern West.  (Remember that whole 'dating' deal is only sort of a century or so old, its a very modern deal).  However, unlike nature anywhere else, its the prey that decides if, when, how and under what conditions they are to be 'caught' in. 

That gives them pretty much total control of all the cards.  The effort is going to be all yours, the choice, all hers. 

And since its a lot of effort - there are no lazy overweight predators in nature - it only makes sense to extend the effort on the prey most likely to succumb and that you favor the most. 

So first, figure out what you want, then narrow it down to those most likely to fit.  This narrows it down to individual people, and people date other people, they don't date other groups of people.  So forget the entire trans/cis deal and concentrate on those persons that are the most appealing.  Because on an individual level its amazing how much relationships are open to negotiation.  And people fall in love with other people, not with other groups of persons.

However, and this is critical in the initial selection process, other things are not open to any negotiation, and ought to be considered deal killers from the get go, because she is going to consider them that too.  Kids are a huge factor that many women are not going to be open to negotiating, one way or the other.  Women who want to have kids are never going to be talked out of it, the desire is deep, instinct level stuff, it will not change.  They are not going to be open to anything that can not, or will not, deliver that.

Financial stuff is also hard to negotiate your way around.  And that's not just golddigger stuff - true that plenty of women like that exist -  but women in general (perhaps because its largely true) are much more aware that their financial status and stability will depend on who she partners with much more than it does for men.  So the last part of the holy trinity "Are you married?  Are you gay?  Are you employed?" is of equal value to the first two questions.  No woman wants to think that she will have to support some guy, and when that happens it tends to suck, and they avoid the possibility of ending up there.  And in the long run, people who aspire to a specific standard of living are not going to be happy unless they obtain it.

And, then, do all the hard work.  Pay attention to them. Cater to them - they expect it.  They don't think its a form of oppression, they think of it as respect.  Most women/girls expect that all the social formalities and graces (opening doors, carrying stuff like a pack mule, opening doors while carrying stuff like a pack mule, pulling the chair out, helping with the coat, etc) will be carried out.  They don't think 'oh that's nice' they think "That's Right!'. 

The process is weighted toward women being selective, so you have to give them time to work to that point.  They tend not to see someone across a room and think "must have" then to actually try to get to know the person first.  Silly, I know.  Where guys will work out the shortcomings later, girls really want to know them upfront.  You kinda have to perform for them for a bit.  No other way to put it.  You have to let her get to know you before you can try to talk her into falling for you. 

Oh yeah, I just have to add this.  Chicks can smell desperation from across the room.  And they don't like it.  Nope.  Not one little bit.  So do whatever you have to do not to reek of it.  Every guy knows this.

But here is what I came here to say.  I once watched a Barbra Walters special where she interviewed Ursula Andrews, Linda Evans and Bo Derick.  All had been married to John Derick, in that order.  All while they were in their 20s.  That's one hell of a lifetime achievement award in women to be sure.  And as Barbra interviewed the two exs - Ursula and Linda - both were still quite fond of him, no bitterness, no evil ex-hate which is so common.  And Bo was - at time she was just about 'the hottest babe' on earth) married to him at the time and head over heals in love with him.  So old Barbra asked the three of them (all were interviewed separately) the same question, one that I paid very close attention too - I was learning from the Master after all.  She asked what it was about John that they all found so overwhelming appealing.  And, as if by magic, all three said exactly the same thing.  So, pay attention, this is it, from god's own lips as they say - they three of them answered: When you talk to John he makes you feel like you are the only woman on earth.  That's that 'pay attention' deal, but it's paying attention to the direct and exact exclusion of every single person in the room with you, especially the other women.  It makes them feel special, and that is a key determent. 

And you make that connection, you demonstrate the ability to make them feel special, before you ask for the date, it really helps in getting an affirmative answer.  And keep at it.  And never, never - it goes to what they said about John Derick - check out other women (when you're with her).
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

notyouraverageguy

Quote from: tekla on December 08, 2009, 12:36:02 PM
So, pay attention, this is it, from god's own lips as they say - they three of them answered: When you talk to John he makes you feel like you are the only woman on earth.  That's that 'pay attention' deal, but it's paying attention to the direct and exact exclusion of every single person in the room with you, especially the other women.  It makes them feel special, and that is a key determent. 

And you make that connection, you demonstrate the ability to make them feel special, before you ask for the date, it really helps in getting an affirmative answer.  And keep at it.  And never, never - it goes to what they said about John Derick - check out other women (when you're with her).

*takes notes*... thinks "I gotta study this stuff"... lol thanks for that advice, sounds legit and seems like its ideally what women want... now what about men?
Gender expression is NOT gender identity.

Defective Catastrophe.
  •  

Lachlann

Dang, Tekla, why do you always have the best advice?
Don't be scared to fly alone, find a path that is your own
Love will open every door it's in your hands, the world is yours
Don't hold back and always know, all the answers will unfold
What are you waiting for, spread your wings and soar
  •  

Evan

amazing tekla, you should make a seperate post, it'll help us guys out for sure. best advice brynn, try the online dating sites (I like downelink), it'll give you some confidence and help you work out the "kinks" without the pressure of a face to face encounter.
  •  

tekla

You can observe a lot by just watching. Yogi Berra.  And I've got to watch a lot over the years.  But the JD thing is classic.  Make her feel like she is the only woman in the world.  If you can get to that point, you're 95% of the way there.

But I've got to disagree about the on-line deal, for two reasons.  First, how do you know that who you are 'practicing' with is what you want to be practicing for?  Everyone who watches To Catch A Predator knows that just about every 14 year old girl on web is some 35 year old cop.  So, I have to assume that for a huge amount of the web, what people say they are that night might not exactly match up with reality.

Second, its a deal done in real time, face to face with other people (which is why its so scary) and there is no real way to practice for that.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •